Woj: Domantas Sabonis, J. Lamb, J. Holiday Traded to Sacramento for Tyrese Haliburton, Buddy Hield, T. Thompson

[SNPA]

What the hell are Kings doing here?

They had 3 point guards and no power forwards.

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Great, now they have no shooting, defense and a clogged paint

Yeah, and they traded the wrong damn one.

[Sactowndog]

I am a bit confused by the amount of people who believe the Pacers won this trade. I am not saying Haliburton isn't a good and it might just be me but it feels like Sabonis is undervalued and Haliburton's potential is overvalued in this particular case.

I like this for the Kings. Sabonis is a great all-around player and the fact that the Kings keep their draft capital intact is great (although they tend to screw up with their picks)

I don't think it's so much the talent equality that people are giving this deal **** for, it's because it's once again an example of the Kings making a trade which implies they're ready to be competitive now which couldn't really be further from the truth.

That aside they got the best player in the deal and reportedly are not done dealing. And again by reading the comments in the thread it looks more as if people believe Haliburton has Lebron-esque potential (I like him but I don't see him as being that special as people here seem to believe) or something and that Sacramento messed up by getting a 25yo 2 time all-star.

I am going to wait to see what their next move is before making a conclusion but I like this for the Kings either way. If anything the Pacers got Haliburton who is a great player for their rebuild and the Kings got the best player in the deal so both win in my eyes at least

I think most Kings fans are looking at the fit of Sabonis with the players we have left. Sabonis can be a strong player if surrounded with players who can shoot the three and you either have to allow him to dominate in the post or double and he kicks out to open 3 point shooters. Well the Kings had 3 above average 3 point shooters: Haliburton, Barnes and Buddy. They just traded two of them away and Barnes is on his last contract year next year.

This trade was a short term trade with flawed fit in a desperate attempt to not set the record for the worst record for play-off misses. But the fit is so bad they will likely still not make the play-offs and then both Barnes and Sabonis will leave as unrestricted free agents.

[Sakkreth]

But do you watch Indiana ?

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Yes. My most watched team together with the Bulls.

Ok that was an honest question though did not mean to troll.

I just find it weird that you do not see sabonis as a negative defensive player.

I was pretty nervous ahead of the trade deadline because i was scared the pacers were going to trade players in order to fit his style of play.

I am relieved tbh he got traded.

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It was a good trade for Indiana, cause Haliburton has tons of potential and he's just 21, also one of Sabonis or Turner had to be moved. Don't like it too much for Sacramento as Fox and Sabonis is not a good fit. Sure, Scaramento got the best player in the trade, but they don't have good enough of a team to compete or assets to get more win now/soon players.

[Antinomy]

What the hell are Kings doing here?

They had 3 point guards and no power forwards.

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Fox’s value must be really low around the league.

[runtmc]

In a vacuum, Sabonis for Hal is a fine trade. Basically swapping an all-star big for a probable all-star guard.

However, I don't get it for Sacramento. They're not a good team. Trading for Sabonis, an established all-star, doesn't make sense for them. They're still trying to rebuild, and Hal was one of their main pieces. Sabonis isn't good enough to take them out of a rebuild.

I'm legitimately confused by Sacramento Fans' reaction. Everyone seems to think Sacramento got hustled and Indy came away with a steal -- maybe it's just me, but all I see is that Sacramento absolutely robbed Indy in this deal.

You say that Sabonis for Haliburton is fine, and seem to realize that Sabonis is a far better player than Haliburton right now -- okay, so then, is your issue with the rest of the pieces in the trade? Hield is literally one of the worst contracts in the entire NBA and has a massive negative value -- Jeremy Lamb is basically a straight-up better Hield with a much cheaper, expiring deal, and Justin Holiday is a serviceable back of the rotation guy with an entirely reasonable contract. And Indy threw in a 2nd round pick on top of it.

I literally don't get why anyone would think Sacramento didn't just smash Indy in this deal. Sacramento got the best player in the deal, by far, got rid of the worst player in the deal, got rid of the worst contract in the deal *by far*, got salary cap flexibility, and got a pick back on top of it.

I think the hold-up is that Sacramento fans see Haliburton as having more potential, but sorry to say, his potential isn't greater than what Sabonis already is. Haliburton has serious holes in his game -- first of all, he's a terrible defender. And his one true calling card is his ability to shoot 3s, but actually, his TS+ is just barely above league average, because he doesn't get to the line at all (his FTr+ is 74, which is abysmal, while Sabonis' is 188, which is phenomenal). In fact, Sabonis is much more efficient and has a much better TS+ than Haliburton. Sabonis over the last 3 seasons has averaged something like 19p/12r/6a on great efficiency with slightly above average defense. He's a good offensive rebounder, he can hit his FTs -- he does literally everything well, he's 25, and he's cost controlled/on a *very* reasonable contract for 3 more seasons. He's not a superstar, yet, but he certainly could be, and right now he's a perennial all-star level player. That's basically the best case scenario for Haliburton. Young, perennial all-star big men that are as well rounded as Sabonis don't grow on trees -- there's only a couple in the entire NBA right now. Decent young guards with some potential? There's a couple of those in every draft.

I've also seen some people complain about fit, but frankly, Sabonis/Holmes gives Sacramento one of the best front lines in basketball now. What about Bagley, you might ask? My response would be, what about him? He simply hasn't played well for several seasons, but he's a serviceable first big off the bench. You certainly don't worry about fit because it might reduce Bagley's playing time -- he's had 4 seasons now to show he's worthy of investing minutes in to develop him, and he hasn't shown any improvement -- it's time to move on.

If I was a Sacramento fan I'd be ecstatic with this trade. This is an absolute no-brainer. Good for Sacramento for trying to get Sabonis without having to give up Haliburton, but if Haliburton was the price for getting Sabonis and shedding Hield's albatross contract, you do it without thinking. The fact that Indy threw in a pick on top of it just blows my mind. I'd actually be really upset at this deal if I was an Indy fan, honestly.

[Antinomy]

The Pacers just extended Brogdon, but it seems he could never stay on the floor anyway.

Haliburton is gonna be a star. Very unorthodox player.

[DroseReturnChi]

In a vacuum, Sabonis for Hal is a fine trade. Basically swapping an all-star big for a probable all-star guard.

However, I don't get it for Sacramento. They're not a good team. Trading for Sabonis, an established all-star, doesn't make sense for them. They're still trying to rebuild, and Hal was one of their main pieces. Sabonis isn't good enough to take them out of a rebuild.

look at the details. they also dumped hield and thompson. they got rid of their glut of pgs.
this is a homerun trade because they were not getting value for fox and mitchell you cant rot them.
think kings traded hali after mitchell exploded for multiple 20pt games which hali rarely has.

[Old Man Game]

I can't believe they traded Halliburton. If I'm a King's fan I'm getting so drunk tonight.

[Hoop Heavy]

Brogdon and Hali have similar archetypes, don't they?

Yes but in a good way. It’s good to have 2 6-4+ guys who can handle the ball, shoot, and defend multiple positions. The bad overlapping talents are two point guard size guys who can’t defend big guards. Pacers have the opposite of that now so I view it as a strength.

Yeah, Haliburton has a lot of cred - in the league and with the fans. The eye test seems to promise great things in the future.

I see trading Sabonis for him. I don't know that Sabonis would be my choice. We see "slow bigs" run off the floor in the playoffs now all the time. Still, if the goal is to win an extra few games for the next couple of years - they got the right guy.

I'm saying now he won't resign and is gone in two years. Was he worth Haliburton in that scenario? Kawhi was worth DeRozan in the short term ... but look at DeRozan now. Still, the Kings don't get a title this year in the mix.

Vivek has more ego than brains. Stauskas, Damn it! Stauskas is the future.

[xBulletproof]

Best defensive rating on the team by anyone with any significant minutes. Net positive on 13th seed playing 35mpg, has insane advanced stats. His box score stats underrepresented him if anything, and u r a lakers fan so u probably don't watch Indiana.

He is terrible pnr defender and cant protect the rim. Also a tweener. ...You are delusional if you think he is better defensively than Turner.

He's not a terrible pnr defender. I am not saying he's better defensively than Turner. He's not a rim protector sure, but overall he's a decent defender. Doesn't get lost as much as Turner, is not soft like Turner. And on the offensive end, he's a star player.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2022/1/28/22905555/nikola-jokic-giannis-antetokounmpo-mvp-points-created
He would be even higher on this list if someone in Indiana could make a 3 pointer on his kick outs, but Indiana has 0 players in the top 100 3pt fg%.

As a Pacers fan, I genuinely feel like you and I are watching 2 different games. I've seen every game of Sabonis in a Pacer uniform. I'm not concerned with what some stat says, when I watch the game he's a defensive liability. As far as being a 'star' on offense, I would save that tag for people who can create a shot at the end of the game when you need it.

He's def one of the best screeners, big man passers and low post scorers in the NBA. He would look great on GSW or PHX. But he can't shoot, can't defend the perimeter and struggles against length. I think you're overselling him quite a bit, especially now that Sac traded shooters. I'm not sure how it fits.

[brutalitops]

Can Justin Holiday even play in California due to the vaccine mandate?

Average trade for the king's. Yes right now Sabonis is the best player in the group, but to lose Halliburton AND Hield is horrid

[MrBigShot]

Dang this is a great trade for the Pacers. I'm shocked the Kings are giving up on Haliburton, how does Sabonis even move the needle for them?

[Duffman100]

Wow, they gave up Haliburton...

sabonis is a way better player. guess nobody wanted fox.

Right now. Yea. In 3-4 years…

[DroseReturnChi]

Wow, they gave up Haliburton...

sabonis is a way better player. guess nobody wanted fox.

Right now. Yea. In 3-4 years…

are you a fortune teller you can tell 100% hali is better than sabonis?
your making wild projections nothing is a guarantee in tihis league. and this is coming from pro hali before draft.
i will gladly explain why kings smashed this trade. they cant wait that many yrs for 1 guy and their best players are pg they were operating ineffective. they already got a deal way above sabonis worth not sure whats the complaint other than trading fox for sabonis and committing highway robbery.

[Murray_17]

I'm legitimately confused by Sacramento Fans' reaction. Everyone seems to think Sacramento got hustled and Indy came away with a steal -- maybe it's just me, but all I see is that Sacramento absolutely robbed Indy in this deal.

You say that Sabonis for Haliburton is fine, and seem to realize that Sabonis is a far better player than Haliburton right now -- okay, so then, is your issue with the rest of the pieces in the trade? Hield is literally one of the worst contracts in the entire NBA and has a massive negative value -- Jeremy Lamb is basically a straight-up better Hield with a much cheaper, expiring deal, and Justin Holiday is a serviceable back of the rotation guy with an entirely reasonable contract. And Indy threw in a 2nd round pick on top of it.

I literally don't get why anyone would think Sacramento didn't just smash Indy in this deal. Sacramento got the best player in the deal, by far, got rid of the worst player in the deal, got rid of the worst contract in the deal *by far*, got salary cap flexibility, and got a pick back on top of it.

I think the hold-up is that Sacramento fans see Haliburton as having more potential, but sorry to say, his potential isn't greater than what Sabonis already is. Haliburton has serious holes in his game -- first of all, he's a terrible defender. And his one true calling card is his ability to shoot 3s, but actually, his TS+ is just barely above league average, because he doesn't get to the line at all (his FTr+ is 74, which is abysmal, while Sabonis' is 188, which is phenomenal). In fact, Sabonis is much more efficient and has a much better TS+ than Haliburton. Sabonis over the last 3 seasons has averaged something like 19p/12r/6a on great efficiency with slightly above average defense. He's a good offensive rebounder, he can hit his FTs -- he does literally everything well, he's 25, and he's cost controlled/on a *very* reasonable contract for 3 more seasons. He's not a superstar, yet, but he certainly could be, and right now he's a perennial all-star level player. That's basically the best case scenario for Haliburton. Young, perennial all-star big men that are as well rounded as Sabonis don't grow on trees -- there's only a couple in the entire NBA right now. Decent young guards with some potential? There's a couple of those in every draft.

I've also seen some people complain about fit, but frankly, Sabonis/Holmes gives Sacramento one of the best front lines in basketball now. What about Bagley, you might ask? My response would be, what about him? He simply hasn't played well for several seasons, but he's a serviceable first big off the bench. You certainly don't worry about fit because it might reduce Bagley's playing time -- he's had 4 seasons now to show he's worthy of investing minutes in to develop him, and he hasn't shown any improvement -- it's time to move on.

If I was a Sacramento fan I'd be ecstatic with this trade. This is an absolute no-brainer. Good for Sacramento for trying to get Sabonis without having to give up Haliburton, but if Haliburton was the price for getting Sabonis and shedding Hield's albatross contract, you do it without thinking. The fact that Indy threw in a pick on top of it just blows my mind. I'd actually be really upset at this deal if I was an Indy fan, honestly.

LOL i stop reading right there.

Having bigs unable to defend in the modern NBA is literal suicide. None of them can shoot and they use the same space Fox needs to score.

Trying to pass this as some fascinating and positive trade without fit issues is just madness

[Duffman100]

sabonis is a way better player. guess nobody wanted fox.

Right now. Yea. In 3-4 years…

are you a fortune teller you can tell 100% hali is better than sabonis?
your making wild projections nothing is a guarantee in tihis league. and this is coming from pro hali before draft.
i will gladly explain why kings smashed this trade. they cant wait that many yrs for 1 guy and their best players are pg they were operating ineffective. they already got a deal way above sabonis worth not sure whats the complaint other than trading fox for sabonis and committing highway robbery.

When did I make wild projections?

[SNPA]

I can't believe they traded Halliburton. If I'm a King's fan I'm getting so drunk tonight.

Starting now.

[SNPA]

In a vacuum, Sabonis for Hal is a fine trade. Basically swapping an all-star big for a probable all-star guard.

However, I don't get it for Sacramento. They're not a good team. Trading for Sabonis, an established all-star, doesn't make sense for them. They're still trying to rebuild, and Hal was one of their main pieces. Sabonis isn't good enough to take them out of a rebuild.

I'm legitimately confused by Sacramento Fans' reaction. Everyone seems to think Sacramento got hustled and Indy came away with a steal -- maybe it's just me, but all I see is that Sacramento absolutely robbed Indy in this deal.

You say that Sabonis for Haliburton is fine, and seem to realize that Sabonis is a far better player than Haliburton right now -- okay, so then, is your issue with the rest of the pieces in the trade? Hield is literally one of the worst contracts in the entire NBA and has a massive negative value -- Jeremy Lamb is basically a straight-up better Hield with a much cheaper, expiring deal, and Justin Holiday is a serviceable back of the rotation guy with an entirely reasonable contract. And Indy threw in a 2nd round pick on top of it.

I literally don't get why anyone would think Sacramento didn't just smash Indy in this deal. Sacramento got the best player in the deal, by far, got rid of the worst player in the deal, got rid of the worst contract in the deal *by far*, got salary cap flexibility, and got a pick back on top of it.

I think the hold-up is that Sacramento fans see Haliburton as having more potential, but sorry to say, his potential isn't greater than what Sabonis already is. Haliburton has serious holes in his game -- first of all, he's a terrible defender. And his one true calling card is his ability to shoot 3s, but actually, his TS+ is just barely above league average, because he doesn't get to the line at all (his FTr+ is 74, which is abysmal, while Sabonis' is 188, which is phenomenal). In fact, Sabonis is much more efficient and has a much better TS+ than Haliburton. Sabonis over the last 3 seasons has averaged something like 19p/12r/6a on great efficiency with slightly above average defense. He's a good offensive rebounder, he can hit his FTs -- he does literally everything well, he's 25, and he's cost controlled/on a *very* reasonable contract for 3 more seasons. He's not a superstar, yet, but he certainly could be, and right now he's a perennial all-star level player. That's basically the best case scenario for Haliburton. Young, perennial all-star big men that are as well rounded as Sabonis don't grow on trees -- there's only a couple in the entire NBA right now. Decent young guards with some potential? There's a couple of those in every draft.

I've also seen some people complain about fit, but frankly, Sabonis/Holmes gives Sacramento one of the best front lines in basketball now. What about Bagley, you might ask? My response would be, what about him? He simply hasn't played well for several seasons, but he's a serviceable first big off the bench. You certainly don't worry about fit because it might reduce Bagley's playing time -- he's had 4 seasons now to show he's worthy of investing minutes in to develop him, and he hasn't shown any improvement -- it's time to move on.

If I was a Sacramento fan I'd be ecstatic with this trade. This is an absolute no-brainer. Good for Sacramento for trying to get Sabonis without having to give up Haliburton, but if Haliburton was the price for getting Sabonis and shedding Hield's albatross contract, you do it without thinking. The fact that Indy threw in a pick on top of it just blows my mind. I'd actually be really upset at this deal if I was an Indy fan, honestly.

I gather from this post that you looked at stats and haven’t watched much Hali. Maybe those that follow it closely actually have some insight you are lacking.

[Dubnation]

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[Dubnation]

I can't believe they traded Halliburton. If I'm a King's fan I'm getting so drunk tonight.

Starting now.