Anthony Black - Arkansas

[Colbinii]

He is about to play 15 mins per game and average 6 ppg and there will be people in here trying to reason that he is still some really strong prospect because it fits their pre-draft takes.

I have really liked how he processed the NBA game and how his shot has improved. Nothing to do with my pre-draft assessment.

Yes 61% from the free throw line and a whooping 1.4 three point attempts per game...

I will be shocked if he shoots above 35% from three this year.

Well the good thing for Black is he doesn't need to shoot a specific % from 3 to be an impactful player. I don't need to put benchmarks on players from a statistical standpoint to determine if they are successful or not in the NBA.

[JMAC3]

I have really liked how he processed the NBA game and how his shot has improved. Nothing to do with my pre-draft assessment.

Yes 61% from the free throw line and a whooping 1.4 three point attempts per game...

I will be shocked if he shoots above 35% from three this year.

Well the good thing for Black is he doesn't need to shoot a specific % from 3 to be an impactful player. I don't need to put benchmarks on players from a statistical standpoint to determine if they are successful or not in the NBA.

Then why bring up his shooting if you are going to run from the convo when stats are presented?

I easily have Black outside my top 10 rookies moving forward from last years class.

[clyde21]

As long as you have 4-5 players better than him, then yeah he can be a good player. Feels like an issue for a #6 pick to me, but maybe the Magic figure it out.

i knew with this crap tier nonsense as soon as I saw who the notification was from

He is about to play 15 mins per game and average 6 ppg and there will be people in here trying to reason that he is still some really strong prospect because it fits their pre-draft takes.

Why did you have him in your top 8 then? Sounds like he should've been out of the 1st round for you.

[Colbinii]

Yes 61% from the free throw line and a whooping 1.4 three point attempts per game...

I will be shocked if he shoots above 35% from three this year.

Well the good thing for Black is he doesn't need to shoot a specific % from 3 to be an impactful player. I don't need to put benchmarks on players from a statistical standpoint to determine if they are successful or not in the NBA.

Then why bring up his shooting if you are going to run from the convo when stats are presented?

I easily have Black outside my top 10 rookies moving forward from last years class.

I said his shot improved--it did.

[JMAC3]

i knew with this crap tier nonsense as soon as I saw who the notification was from

He is about to play 15 mins per game and average 6 ppg and there will be people in here trying to reason that he is still some really strong prospect because it fits their pre-draft takes.

Why did you have him in your top 8 then? Sounds like he should've been out of the 1st round for you.

I rated him too highly, I was wrong how bad he is on offense. How little his playmaking would impact at the next level.
I can adjust my views with more information, not get take locked for years like some.

[Colbinii]

He is about to play 15 mins per game and average 6 ppg and there will be people in here trying to reason that he is still some really strong prospect because it fits their pre-draft takes.

Why did you have him in your top 8 then? Sounds like he should've been out of the 1st round for you.

I rated him too highly, I was wrong how bad he is on offense. How little his playmaking would impact at the next level.
I can adjust my views with more information, not get take locked for years like some.

Just say the name--Big J.

Clyde is one of the best posters here at admitting he was wrong and explaining why he was wrong. Clyde also seems to not dwell or relish on the past like many here. He doesn't really play "Got'cha" games like some do and is always focused on the next year as soon as the draft happens.

[JMAC3]

Why did you have him in your top 8 then? Sounds like he should've been out of the 1st round for you.

I rated him too highly, I was wrong how bad he is on offense. How little his playmaking would impact at the next level.
I can adjust my views with more information, not get take locked for years like some.

Just say the name--Big J.

Clyde is one of the best posters here at admitting he was wrong and explaining why he was wrong. Clyde also seems to not dwell or relish on the past like many here. He doesn't really play "Got'cha" games like some do and is always focused on the next year as soon as the draft happens.

He literally just tried to do this 30 seconds ago with me having Anthony Black in my top 8 lol.

[Colbinii]

I rated him too highly, I was wrong how bad he is on offense. How little his playmaking would impact at the next level.
I can adjust my views with more information, not get take locked for years like some.

Just say the name--Big J.

Clyde is one of the best posters here at admitting he was wrong and explaining why he was wrong. Clyde also seems to not dwell or relish on the past like many here. He doesn't really play "Got'cha" games like some do and is always focused on the next year as soon as the draft happens.

He literally just tried to do this 30 seconds ago with me having Anthony Black in my top 8 lol.

I guess I don't see any difference between what I thought about Black and how he played. Passive and patient offensively, lots of intriguing potential skills, incredible basketball mind, good size and athleticism, inconsistent and lack of confidence in his shot.

That seems like it summed up Black in his rookie year quite well.

Did you think he was going to come in and step on the toes of Paolo/Wagner? Like you said, the Magic have 4 NBA-Caliber guards on the roster already.

[JMAC3]

I guess I don't see any difference between what I thought about Black and how he played. Passive and patient offensively, lots of intriguing potential skills, incredible basketball mind, good size and athleticism, inconsistent and lack of confidence in his shot.

That seems like it summed up Black in his rookie year quite well.

Did you think he was going to come in and step on the toes of Paolo/Wagner? Like you said, the Magic have 4 NBA-Caliber guards on the roster already.

I think it is a whole lot of excuses being made for him. Flat out.

He took a backseat role to Cole Anthony, Markelle Fultz, Gary Harris... very little to do with Paolo and Wagner.

Meanwhile someone like Podz earned 26 mins per game on a team with Steph, Klay, Cp3, Moody, GP2

[Colbinii]

I guess I don't see any difference between what I thought about Black and how he played. Passive and patient offensively, lots of intriguing potential skills, incredible basketball mind, good size and athleticism, inconsistent and lack of confidence in his shot.

That seems like it summed up Black in his rookie year quite well.

Did you think he was going to come in and step on the toes of Paolo/Wagner? Like you said, the Magic have 4 NBA-Caliber guards on the roster already.

I think it is a whole lot of excuses being made for him. Flat out.

He took a backseat role to Cole Anthony, Markelle Fultz, Gary Harris... very little to do with Paolo and Wagner.

Meanwhile someone like Podz earned 26 mins per game on a team with Steph, Klay, Cp3, Moody, GP2

Podz is really good. I'd definitely have him as a better player year 1 than Black. He has an incredible feel for the game and an abundance of confidence.


You're impossible to engage with. You always want to argue instead of talk. You never want to just engage in a friendly way and are always combative. I explained how I saw Black and you said "Sounds like excuses"...I'm simply explaining what I saw. I have no reason to make excuses or win or lose a discussion on a forum, lol.

Enjoy the rest of your life JMac. I hope you find happiness here and outside of this forum as you continue your life. Cheers!

[clyde21]

I rated him too highly, I was wrong how bad he is on offense. How little his playmaking would impact at the next level.
I can adjust my views with more information, not get take locked for years like some.

Just say the name--Big J.

Clyde is one of the best posters here at admitting he was wrong and explaining why he was wrong. Clyde also seems to not dwell or relish on the past like many here. He doesn't really play "Got'cha" games like some do and is always focused on the next year as soon as the draft happens.

He literally just tried to do this 30 seconds ago with me having Anthony Black in my top 8 lol.

i was wondering why you were talking **** about Black not even a minute into his second season despite having rated him highly, but if you are already admitting that you overranked him that's fine

for me everything I said about Black still holds true, and if you were expecting an explosive scorer from Black then you just didn't know what you were looking at. this is me on the first page of this thread:

people will downgrade him b/c of lack of explosive scoring but he's absolutely filthy, just a winning player if I ever seen one.

now if your contention is that he's gonna be such a bad shooter that the rest of his game won't make it up for it, fine that's a reasonable opinion even though I don't agree with it, but I am wondering why you didn't hold it before his rookie year. not sure what changed from now and then

[JMAC3]

I guess I don't see any difference between what I thought about Black and how he played. Passive and patient offensively, lots of intriguing potential skills, incredible basketball mind, good size and athleticism, inconsistent and lack of confidence in his shot.

That seems like it summed up Black in his rookie year quite well.

Did you think he was going to come in and step on the toes of Paolo/Wagner? Like you said, the Magic have 4 NBA-Caliber guards on the roster already.

I think it is a whole lot of excuses being made for him. Flat out.

He took a backseat role to Cole Anthony, Markelle Fultz, Gary Harris... very little to do with Paolo and Wagner.

Meanwhile someone like Podz earned 26 mins per game on a team with Steph, Klay, Cp3, Moody, GP2

Podz is really good. I'd definitely have him as a better player year 1 than Black. He has an incredible feel for the game and an abundance of confidence.


You're impossible to engage with. You always want to argue instead of talk. You never want to just engage in a friendly way and are always combative. I explained how I saw Black and you said "Sounds like excuses"...I'm simply explaining what I saw. I have no reason to make excuses or win or lose a discussion on a forum, lol.

Enjoy the rest of your life JMac. I hope you find happiness here and outside of this forum as you continue your life. Cheers!

Huh? I just provided an example of a young player beating out older players... which is what you just said was holding Black back? I don't understand how that is arguing instead of providing real data, evidence backing up my point.

Weird response to be honest.

[clyde21]

btw

Jett Howard, who the Magic drafted 3 spots later, who WAS supposed to be a shooter, shot 28% from 3 compared to AB's 39% last season, so I'm not sure why it's AB who's catching hands about not shooting well when the shooter prospect is the one not shooting well

[JMAC3]

Just say the name--Big J.

Clyde is one of the best posters here at admitting he was wrong and explaining why he was wrong. Clyde also seems to not dwell or relish on the past like many here. He doesn't really play "Got'cha" games like some do and is always focused on the next year as soon as the draft happens.

He literally just tried to do this 30 seconds ago with me having Anthony Black in my top 8 lol.

i was wondering why you were talking **** about Black not even a minute into his second season despite having rated him highly, but if you are already admitting that you overranked him that's fine

for me everything I said about Black still holds true, and if you were expecting an explosive scorer from Black then you just didn't know what you were looking at. this is me on the first page of this thread:

people will downgrade him b/c of lack of explosive scoring but he's absolutely filthy, just a winning player if I ever seen one.

now if your contention is that he's gonna be such a bad shooter that the rest of his game won't make it up for it, fine that's a reasonable opinion even though I don't agree with it, but I am wondering why you didn't hold it before his rookie year. not sure what changed from now and then

Magic gave him very little on ball reps, he had a higher turnover % than assist %, he was one of the worst scorers in the NBA per36. Defensively he was good but at the same time he was 6th or 7th in DEF EPM among guys on his own team, while being one of the worst offensive players in the league. He is on the wrong team if he wants to find success because the thing he does best his team doesn't really need to force feed him min.

So he is a low usage, low volume shooter, who didn't offer playmaking or any type of scoring threat... on a team that was desperately seeking more scoring, playmaking all year.

[JMAC3]

btw

Jett Howard, who the Magic drafted 3 spots later, who WAS supposed to be a shooter, shot 28% from 3 compared to AB's 39% last season, so I'm not sure why it's AB who's catching hands about not shooting well when the shooter prospect is the one not shooting well

Are you really trying to compare a guy that played 67 mins with 25 threes attempted to a guy that played 1164 mins and 94 threes attempted? I am not even a Jett Howard guy but that seems like a really pointless counterpoint if we care about sample sizes at all.

I could care less about AB's 3pt%, maybe I will be proven wrong but if you watched how teams defended him. Teams wanted him to shoot threes, they would either not close out on him or literally walk out to him on closeouts. There is a reason Orlando didn't even attempt to play in the playoffs because he offers no spacing.

[clyde21]

He literally just tried to do this 30 seconds ago with me having Anthony Black in my top 8 lol.

i was wondering why you were talking **** about Black not even a minute into his second season despite having rated him highly, but if you are already admitting that you overranked him that's fine

for me everything I said about Black still holds true, and if you were expecting an explosive scorer from Black then you just didn't know what you were looking at. this is me on the first page of this thread:

people will downgrade him b/c of lack of explosive scoring but he's absolutely filthy, just a winning player if I ever seen one.

now if your contention is that he's gonna be such a bad shooter that the rest of his game won't make it up for it, fine that's a reasonable opinion even though I don't agree with it, but I am wondering why you didn't hold it before his rookie year. not sure what changed from now and then

Magic gave him very little on ball reps, he had a higher turnover % than assist %, he was one of the worst scorers in the NBA per36. Defensively he was good but at the same time he was 6th or 7th in DEF EPM among guys on his own team, while being one of the worst offensive players in the league. He is on the wrong team if he wants to find success because the thing he does best his team doesn't really need to force feed him min.

So he is a low usage, low volume shooter, who didn't offer playmaking or any type of scoring threat... on a team that was desperately seeking more scoring, playmaking all year.

lol if the Magic drafted him to play him off-ball then it's bball malpractice and has nothing to do with Black as a prospect

[clyde21]

btw

Jett Howard, who the Magic drafted 3 spots later, who WAS supposed to be a shooter, shot 28% from 3 compared to AB's 39% last season, so I'm not sure why it's AB who's catching hands about not shooting well when the shooter prospect is the one not shooting well

Are you really trying to compare a guy that played 67 mins with 25 threes attempted to a guy that played 1164 mins and 94 threes attempted? I am not even a Jett Howard guy but that seems like a really pointless counterpoint if we care about sample sizes at all.

I could care less about AB's 3pt%, maybe I will be proven wrong but if you watched how teams defended him. Teams wanted him to shoot threes, they would either not close out on him or literally walk out to him on closeouts. There is a reason Orlando didn't even attempt to play in the playoffs because he offers no spacing.

my point is twofold:

1) people are bitching about AB's shooting when the Magic drafted an actual shooting prospect three spots later who barely played and when he did shot much worse than AB

2) there is an argument to be made the the Magic mishandled both of their rookies. they needed shooting yet barely gave Jett any minutes, and they played AB primarily off-ball

[Colbinii]

btw

Jett Howard, who the Magic drafted 3 spots later, who WAS supposed to be a shooter, shot 28% from 3 compared to AB's 39% last season, so I'm not sure why it's AB who's catching hands about not shooting well when the shooter prospect is the one not shooting well

Are you really trying to compare a guy that played 67 mins with 25 threes attempted to a guy that played 1164 mins and 94 threes attempted? I am not even a Jett Howard guy but that seems like a really pointless counterpoint if we care about sample sizes at all.

I could care less about AB's 3pt%, maybe I will be proven wrong but if you watched how teams defended him. Teams wanted him to shoot threes, they would either not close out on him or literally walk out to him on closeouts. There is a reason Orlando didn't even attempt to play in the playoffs because he offers no spacing.

my point is twofold:

1) people are bitching about AB's shooting when the Magic drafted an actual shooting prospect three spots later who barely played and when he did shot much worse than AB

2) there is an argument to be made the the Magic mishandled both of their rookies. they needed shooting yet barely gave Jett any minutes, and they played AB primarily off-ball

I think time will tell if AB can move into a larger role, and ultimately his creation and shot-making is going to determine if he ends up as a Star, a Pseudo-Star or a solid role player and starter. Right now, we really didn't see a whole lot in the 1st year to move the needle either way.

I actually thought his shot looked better than it did in college. I also think the Magic were spacing-deprived to a degree many NBA teams aren't. AB in an actual 5-out offense or even 4-out with Isaac is going to be a very positively-rated [+/-] line-up. The Magic did attempt to fix some of these issues with the addition of KCP and I expect an in-season move from them [notably moving off of Cole Anthony and one of their centers] as they build around the foundation of AB/Suggs/Wagner/Paolo. It is also entirely possible Wagner/Paolo suffocate the offensive possessions and force AB into a limited role where he can't shine--and that happens far too often with prospects [as you said with GG in Memphis is a real possibility].

[clyde21]

Are you really trying to compare a guy that played 67 mins with 25 threes attempted to a guy that played 1164 mins and 94 threes attempted? I am not even a Jett Howard guy but that seems like a really pointless counterpoint if we care about sample sizes at all.

I could care less about AB's 3pt%, maybe I will be proven wrong but if you watched how teams defended him. Teams wanted him to shoot threes, they would either not close out on him or literally walk out to him on closeouts. There is a reason Orlando didn't even attempt to play in the playoffs because he offers no spacing.

my point is twofold:

1) people are bitching about AB's shooting when the Magic drafted an actual shooting prospect three spots later who barely played and when he did shot much worse than AB

2) there is an argument to be made the the Magic mishandled both of their rookies. they needed shooting yet barely gave Jett any minutes, and they played AB primarily off-ball

I think time will tell if AB can move into a larger role, and ultimately his creation and shot-making is going to determine if he ends up as a Star, a Pseudo-Star or a solid role player and starter. Right now, we really didn't see a whole lot in the 1st year to move the needle either way.

I actually thought his shot looked better than it did in college. I also think the Magic were spacing-deprived to a degree many NBA teams aren't. AB in an actual 5-out offense or even 4-out with Isaac is going to be a very positively-rated [+/-] line-up. The Magic did attempt to fix some of these issues with the addition of KCP and I expect an in-season move from them [notably moving off of Cole Anthony and one of their centers] as they build around the foundation of AB/Suggs/Wagner/Paolo. It is also entirely possible Wagner/Paolo suffocate the offensive possessions and force AB into a limited role where he can't shine--and that happens far too often with prospects [as you said with GG in Memphis is a real possibility].

i think the Magic realized they were much better than they thought they would be last season and decided to table their rookies essentially for seeding

[JMAC3]

Yes and some of that is due to the fact that Black isn't very good. If he were just as good or better than Fultz, Harris, Anthony then they would have played him. If anything they did the opposite and signed KCP which buries him further down the bench than last year.

Suggs (30) - Cole (18)- Black
KCP (30) - Harris (18)
Franz (32) - da Silva (12) -Issac (4)
Paolo (34)- Issac (14)
WCJ (26) - Mo (18) - Goga (4)

Harris played 24 mpg in the playoffs for them and then they brought him back 2/15.

Where is AB or Jett Howard getting this massive mins jump? They lost Fultz who played 21 mpg last year and replaced him with a guy that averaged 31 mpg over the past 3 yrs. Harris and Anthony averaged 24 and 22 mpg last year, the chart above already has them playing less this year.

The best bet is of course injuries, which will happen. Maybe KCP logs some of his mins at the 3 and opens up more mins in the backcourt, but I am not seeing this as some big breakout AB season this year based on what I have seen, how the team has acted and just the lack of mins available.