NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 5: So who's winning MVP? )

[sunsbg]

During this stretch, their only win against a team top 7 in EITHER conference was...Denver, which was a high quality win to be fair.

Everything else was against teams ranked 8th or worse in their conference.

Blowing out OKC, who were first then, doesn't count? I believe Suns and Kings were top 6 teams back then too.

Weren't Mavs worst defense in the league for a stretch of games after the trade. Recent wins against Kings(Monk injured) and Rockets(pure luck) were not very convincing either. Chance for Luka to put the Clippers curse off his back. That series will tell more about the Mavs than any regular season record.

[Bob8]

You're not exactly able to discuss this objectively though.

What means objectively?

- Was Luka named the best player of February and March? And in January he averaged 37.1/9.2/10.4. With 73 points game against Hawks.

Were Mavs one of the most injured team? 32 starting lineups suggests they were.

Are Mavs 1 of the best teams after getting healthy and trade? They have won 23 of last 30 games. Only Boston better.

- https://stathead.com/tiny/W5oOO Here can you see that Luka is not only convincingly better in box scorer stats but in some advanced stats too.

I would say that all that makes pretty good case to put him objectively as second best player in this season. We all know that voters are far away of being objective and that doesn't go exactly in favour of Jokic and Luka.

[Bob8]

During this stretch, their only win against a team top 7 in EITHER conference was...Denver, which was a high quality win to be fair.

Everything else was against teams ranked 8th or worse in their conference.

Blowing out OKC, who were first then, doesn't count? I believe Suns and Kings were top 6 teams back then too.

Weren't Mavs worst defense in the league for a stretch of games after the trade. Recent wins against Kings(Monk injured) and Rockets(pure luck) were not very convincing either. Chance for Luka to put the Clippers curse off his back. That series will tell more about the Mavs than any regular season record.

Playing with totally new rotations are not exactly easy and needs time. They have 7th best D after the trade. The best D in last 15 games.

You're nitpicking now. They are 14/2 in last 16 games, 1 lose without Luka. Monk was injured in game 2 against Kings, they blowout them with him. And those were basically playoffs games, Kings in front playing at home. Yes they were lucky against Rockets, on the other hand they were extremely unlucky against Cleveland. And to be lucky they still needed to came back after being 22 points down against highly motivated Rockets playing extremely hard in D. I would say that wins like that are pretty important for team's identity.

In these playoffs anyone can beat anyone in the West. More important for Mavs is that they finally have team constructed well. They're still missing 1 better wing, but if you look at how team looked last year, it's like day or night. Nico did fantastic job this year. Losing Brunson for nothing was pretty devastating after WCF.

[ChipotleWest]

When the Mavs faced Sacramento they were in 6th. So now Luka is punished for beating Sacramento twice and knocking them down in the standings? Weird.

[ChipotleWest]

Chance for Luka to put the Clippers curse off his back. That series will tell more about the Mavs than any regular season record.

Which is irrelevant to this thread. MVP is regular season award only playoffs don't count.

[Cubbies2120]

During this stretch, their only win against a team top 7 in EITHER conference was...Denver, which was a high quality win to be fair.

Everything else was against teams ranked 8th or worse in their conference.

Did not have time to look them up but pretty sure they beat OKC by 30+ points the first game after the trade.

I was looking at the start of their recent tear (March 7 vs. Miami), because that excluded the 3 straight losses (Loss to Boston by 28, loss to Sixers w/o Embiid, loss to Pacers by 17).

[Cubbies2120]

During this stretch, their only win against a team top 7 in EITHER conference was...Denver, which was a high quality win to be fair.

Everything else was against teams ranked 8th or worse in their conference.

Blowing out OKC, who were first then, doesn't count? I believe Suns and Kings were top 6 teams back then too.

Was looking at the stretch of games where Mavs are 13-1 when Luka plays (last 14 games he played). If we go back further the record isn't as spotless as it includes a 1-5 stretch.

[Cubbies2120]

Chance for Luka to put the Clippers curse off his back. That series will tell more about the Mavs than any regular season record.

Which is irrelevant to this thread. MVP is regular season award only playoffs don't count.

Weird cause lack of playoff success was an argument against Jokic three-peating as MVP.

[Bob8]

During this stretch, their only win against a team top 7 in EITHER conference was...Denver, which was a high quality win to be fair.

Everything else was against teams ranked 8th or worse in their conference.

Did not have time to look them up but pretty sure they beat OKC by 30+ points the first game after the trade.

I was looking at the start of their recent tear (March 7 vs. Miami), because that excluded the 3 straight losses (Loss to Boston by 28, loss to Sixers w/o Embiid, loss to Pacers by 17).

I was talking after the trade deadline. 20/7, second best behind Celtics. Yes, they had some problems integrating new players, kinda normal, all that changed with new starting lineup, with which they lost only 1 game. The best D in last 15 games tells you that Nico achieved exactly what he wanted with trades. They are playing without Lively and Green at the moment. Especially Lively is essential for the Mavs, because he and Gafford enable Mavs to have 48 minutes of rim protection. If he's not ready for playoffs...

[hagredionis]

I just realized that currently the Mavs would be the second seed in the Eastern Conference! So much so for the lack of team success narrative. All the arguments against Luka MVP are being debunked one by one.

[Cubbies2120]

Did not have time to look them up but pretty sure they beat OKC by 30+ points the first game after the trade.

I was looking at the start of their recent tear (March 7 vs. Miami), because that excluded the 3 straight losses (Loss to Boston by 28, loss to Sixers w/o Embiid, loss to Pacers by 17).

I was talking after the trade deadline. 20/7, second best behind Celtics. Yes, they had some problems integrating new players, kinda normal, all that changed with new starting lineup, with which they lost only 1 game. The best D in last 15 games tells you that Nico achieved exactly what he wanted with trades. They are playing without Lively and Green at the moment. Especially Lively is essential for the Mavs, because he and Gafford enable Mavs to have 48 minutes of rim protection. If he's not ready for playoffs...

During those 15 games, though, they beat one good team - the Denver Nuggets. Not their fault, they didn't face any elite teams, their first pre-playoff test will come in the last game of the season IF they have anything to play for vs. OKC

[Cubbies2120]

I just realized that currently the Mavs would be the second seed in the Eastern Conference! So much so for the lack of team success narrative. All the arguments against Luka MVP are being debunked one by one.

The Mavs are just as close to the 10 seed in the West as they are to the 3 seed in the West...

[Yuri36]

Chance for Luka to put the Clippers curse off his back. That series will tell more about the Mavs than any regular season record.

Which is irrelevant to this thread. MVP is regular season award only playoffs don't count.

Weird cause lack of playoff success was an argument against Jokic three-peating as MVP.

How the hell could it have been an argument against Joker when you know it's Embiid, a guy not exactly known for performing during POs, who got the MVP??
You guys are really willing to find anything to lower Luka's MVP case to the point it's becoming quite frankly ridiculous.

[Archx]

I just realized that currently the Mavs would be the second seed in the Eastern Conference! So much so for the lack of team success narrative. All the arguments against Luka MVP are being debunked one by one.

The Mavs are just as close to the 10 seed in the West as they are to the 3 seed in the West...

And they have the 2nd best record after the trade deadline only behind Celtics. Given how many injury issues and no starting lineup stability, it's quite remarkable that they're even this good.
And like the other poster said, Western conference is a blood bath, they would be the 2nd seed in the East. Overall Mavs have the 6th best record in the league right now.

[Bob8]

I was looking at the start of their recent tear (March 7 vs. Miami), because that excluded the 3 straight losses (Loss to Boston by 28, loss to Sixers w/o Embiid, loss to Pacers by 17).

I was talking after the trade deadline. 20/7, second best behind Celtics. Yes, they had some problems integrating new players, kinda normal, all that changed with new starting lineup, with which they lost only 1 game. The best D in last 15 games tells you that Nico achieved exactly what he wanted with trades. They are playing without Lively and Green at the moment. Especially Lively is essential for the Mavs, because he and Gafford enable Mavs to have 48 minutes of rim protection. If he's not ready for playoffs...

During those 15 games, though, they beat one good team - the Denver Nuggets. Not their fault, they didn't face any elite teams, their first pre-playoff test will come in the last game of the season IF they have anything to play for vs. OKC

I don't understand why blowout game against OKC doesn't count? Or against Suns? Or 2 crucial away games against Kings? How many top teams have Celtics beat in last 15 games or Denver?

Mavs are new team after trade line. Those results are representative. And you can trust me or not, difference is very evident, even if you don't know their results for that period. D is totally changed.

[hagredionis]

I just realized that currently the Mavs would be the second seed in the Eastern Conference! So much so for the lack of team success narrative. All the arguments against Luka MVP are being debunked one by one.

The Mavs are just as close to the 10 seed in the West as they are to the 3 seed in the West...

Good point and that's another argument in Luka's favor. Considering how strong the Western Conference is this year it's nothing short of miraculous that Luka managed to keep them above .500 when Kyrie, Lively, J.Green, Exum and Kleber missed many games due to injuries.

[Bob8]

I just realized that currently the Mavs would be the second seed in the Eastern Conference! So much so for the lack of team success narrative. All the arguments against Luka MVP are being debunked one by one.

The Mavs are just as close to the 10 seed in the West as they are to the 3 seed in the West...

And Denver is as close to play-in as to Boston? Should Tatum get MVP?

[QPR]

I just realized that currently the Mavs would be the second seed in the Eastern Conference! So much so for the lack of team success narrative. All the arguments against Luka MVP are being debunked one by one.

Did you forget about Denver's record?

[Sgt Major]

Are these Luka fans for real?

[Cubbies2120]

Are these Luka fans for real?

I can't tell either...lol. Living in a hypothetical world where...all these players 1. Were not injured, 2. The trades [that likely occurred DUE TO LACK OF TEAM SUCCESS] still happen.

In this hypothetical world, they're 73-9 as well because they face only teams seeded worse than 6 in each conference.