Felton Signs With Knicks

[fatlever]

i would try to target steve blake, earl watson, jordan farmar or luke ridnour on a short term deal, all of which can be signed for half (or less) of what felton will make.

[Rich4114]

if we're signing any of those guys mentioned (who are all worse than Felton by a good amount IMO) then it would need to be short term and cheap until we found our franchise PG.

It really sucks DJ regressed so badly last season. Rookie version DJ would be able to start and hopefully just improve defensively. Now we're stuck with jump shooting DJ who still gets smoked on D.

however, I still think DJ would be our best bet at starter next season unless we got Ford or Felton resigned.

[Walt Cronkite]

For all the talk about DJ getting worse this year (not as much here but I've seen it posted all over the other forum), he improved his assist rate, lowered his turnover rate and had his usage rate cut. He had his mpg cut by 8, so maybe that is the difference, but you have to make that point both ways and consider it for his shooting difficulties this season as well. Both DJ and Felton posted impressive rookie campaigns, only to regress as sophomores, but a glaring difference is that DJ went from 26.5 mpg to 18.4, while Felton's went from 30.1 to 36.3.

Since the Felton talk at the time was "pg's need time to develop", I think it's bizarre that this is discounted in regard to DJ (again, not so much here and this is not directed at Rich exactly, just happened to be the most recent person to say it and I've been putting it off typing it for a while)

[countryboi]

For all the talk about DJ getting worse this year (not as much here but I've seen it posted all over the other forum), he improved his assist rate, lowered his turnover rate and had his usage rate cut. He had his mpg cut by 8, so maybe that is the difference, but you have to make that point both ways and consider it for his shooting difficulties this season as well. Both DJ and Felton posted impressive rookie campaigns, only to regress as sophomores, but a glaring difference is that DJ went from 26.5 mpg to 18.4, while Felton's went from 30.1 to 36.3.

Since the Felton talk at the time was "pg's need time to develop", I think it's bizarre that this is discounted in regard to DJ (again, not so much here and this is not directed at Rich exactly, just happened to be the most recent person to say it and I've been putting it off typing it for a while)

maybe DJ mins got cut cause he was awful and LB didnt trust him....but dj does play better when given major mins

[Paydro70]

The combination of lower usage AND lower shooting is a really, really bad one. If one had increased while the other dropped it wouldn't be as big a cause for concern, but this suggests a more fundamental problem with his ability to do anything but shoot 3pters on the NBA level.

There can be the hope that he "gets it" later, like Felton was supposed to, and I think DJ will probably be an okay NBA player, but in my mind the door has effectively been closed on him becoming an all-star caliber player, and I question whether "solid starter" is even really in the cards.

[dmutombo321]

The combination of lower usage AND lower shooting is a really, really bad one. If one had increased while the other dropped it wouldn't be as big a cause for concern, but this suggests a more fundamental problem with his ability to do anything but shoot 3pters on the NBA level.

There can be the hope that he "gets it" later, like Felton was supposed to, and I think DJ will probably be an okay NBA player, but in my mind the door has effectively been closed on him becoming an all-star caliber player, and I question whether "solid starter" is even really in the cards.

I've always considered Farmar to be the type of guard who has all of DJ's strengths (speed, outside shooting stroke) and none of his glaring weaknesses (physical defensive shortcomings). If Felton walks and they can pick up Farmar on the cheap, I'd be all for dealing DJ while he still has some perceived value (by way of the potential tag) left.

[Rich4114]

Walt, I think it's a different situation completely. Felton started out as a poor shooter and really hasn't become any good until this season. However, Felton always had the ability to penetrate and make something happen as well as make the crisp passes to open guys. DJ started out as a good shooter, but everybody can agree he never ran the team well, could defend, or make exceptional passes to get guys good shots. His game is hold onto the ball, get into the paint, or take a jumper. His rookie year he did that, but he made his shots so we didn't care as much about the other stuff. Now, he lost both his scoring ability and hasn't improved in the other areas which is a huge concern.

DJ has also had one coach, Felton had 3 (2 of them played him primarily at SG).

Not saying Felton is 100x better or anything, just that it's a different situation that doesn't offer a good comparison IMO.

I think some of it has to do with Larry. At one point under Larry, Felton also looked horrendous. He's the hardest coach in the NBA to play for if you're a PG. I think it in turn over two seasons has made Felton a more efficient PG. Lesser in points, lesser in assists, but a better turnover rate, a higher shooting %, and an overall more steady option at the PG spot (much like he used Eric Snow in Philly). DJ has unfortunately not adapted because his game was built around his shooting ability. I bet DJ would do well under another coach as a scoring PG, but I'm not sure he could do very well under LB's system... not many can really unless they've been around a little while.

[Walt Cronkite]

Felton had one coach in his first two seasons, DJ had one super demanding PG coach.. eh, yaknow what, let's just agree to disagree, we've all been down this road before.

[fatlever]

in feltons defense... he had a good year, probably his best year yet. its not really like ray did anything wrong. we all love him for being a great teammate, a role model on and off the court, a warrior and a stand-up guy. its all about money, sadly. i think we can all agree that ray is pretty close to his ceiling as a player. its just really hard to invest big money into a player with little upside, whose best, just isnt quite good enough to take us to another level on his own. so we would essentially be paying 7 mil per, for status quo.

if we did sign blake, ridnour, watson or farmar it would absolutely be a short-term deal meant as a stop-gap for now or hopefully a solid backup for dj. i would also give dj every chance to win the starting job in training camp. its time to find out what he can do. i believe dj would be better starting than he is coming off the bench. he seems to play better when he gets big minutes and inst looking over his shoulder. that being said, even if dj is our starter next year and he starts playing better, we should still be looking to find another pg since i dont really believe dj is the answer either.

[Rich4114]

Felton had one coach in his first two seasons, DJ had one super demanding PG coach.. eh, yaknow what, let's just agree to disagree, we've all been down this road before.

Nonsense!

[W_HAMILTON]

It's comical that some of the same people that whined about Felton not getting enough opportunities in his first few seasons are talking down about Augustin.

Augustin's rookie season was much better than Felton's, even though Augustin didn't have nearly the same opportunities as Felton did.

Augustin has started 14 games in his career, Felton started 54 games his ROOKIE season.
Augustin averages 22mpg over his career, Felton has played 30mpg+ in every season.
Augustin's 43% FG last year was better than Felton ever shot (until this past season).
As "horrible" as Augustin's FG% was this year, his 39% is comparable or better to Felton's first two seasons.
Augustin's 39.3% 3pt percentage this year would be Felton's career high.

For all the talk about Felton not getting to play PG, he played it a helluva lot more than Augustin has. Knight was injured a lot, and Felton was relied on to be our only backup at PG. On the other hand, Augustin has almost always had Felton in front of him, for most of this season he also had to contend with Murray taking his minutes, and he doesn't get to run the team exclusively for nearly the same amount of time that Felton did his first few seasons in the league.

It caused a **** storm when Felton was getting what turned out to be many more opportunities than Augustin has gotten, but some of the same people that were whining back then are trying to write off Augustin already. If the same rules applied to both players, Felton would have been written off halfway during his rookie season.

Don't complain about Augustin sucking when 2,000 of your posts came from complaining about Felton's lack of opportunities. Augustin has been comparable or better than Felton was at this point in his career, and Augustin has had a helluva lot fewer chances to prove himself.

[Walt Cronkite]

Now you've done it...

[Fred Williamson]

amen, Hamilton

[countryboi]

It's comical that some of the same people that whined about Felton not getting enough opportunities in his first few seasons are talking down about Augustin.

Augustin's rookie season was much better than Felton's, even though Augustin didn't have nearly the same opportunities as Felton did.

Augustin has started 14 games in his career, Felton started 54 games his ROOKIE season.
Augustin averages 22mpg over his career, Felton has played 30mpg+ in every season.
Augustin's 43% FG last year was better than Felton ever shot (until this past season).
As "horrible" as Augustin's FG% was this year, his 39% is comparable or better to Felton's first two seasons.
Augustin's 39.3% 3pt percentage this year would be Felton's career high.

For all the talk about Felton not getting to play PG, he played it a helluva lot more than Augustin has. Knight was injured a lot, and Felton was relied on to be our only backup at PG. On the other hand, Augustin has almost always had Felton in front of him, for most of this season he also had to contend with Murray taking his minutes, and he doesn't get to run the team exclusively for nearly the same amount of time that Felton did his first few seasons in the league.

It caused a **** storm when Felton was getting what turned out to be many more opportunities than Augustin has gotten, but some of the same people that were whining back then are trying to write off Augustin already. If the same rules applied to both players, Felton would have been written off halfway during his rookie season.

Don't complain about Augustin sucking when 2,000 of your posts came from complaining about Felton's lack of opportunities. Augustin has been comparable or better than Felton was at this point in his career, and Augustin has had a helluva lot fewer chances to prove himself.

i feel what your saying but my gut tells me that even with the opportunities DJ is pretty much a shorter boobie gibson

[doc.end]

It's comical that some of the same people that whined about Felton not getting enough opportunities in his first few seasons are talking down about Augustin.

Augustin's rookie season was much better than Felton's, even though Augustin didn't have nearly the same opportunities as Felton did.

Augustin has started 14 games in his career, Felton started 54 games his ROOKIE season.
Augustin averages 22mpg over his career, Felton has played 30mpg+ in every season.
Augustin's 43% FG last year was better than Felton ever shot (until this past season).
As "horrible" as Augustin's FG% was this year, his 39% is comparable or better to Felton's first two seasons.
Augustin's 39.3% 3pt percentage this year would be Felton's career high.

For all the talk about Felton not getting to play PG, he played it a helluva lot more than Augustin has. Knight was injured a lot, and Felton was relied on to be our only backup at PG. On the other hand, Augustin has almost always had Felton in front of him, for most of this season he also had to contend with Murray taking his minutes, and he doesn't get to run the team exclusively for nearly the same amount of time that Felton did his first few seasons in the league.

It caused a **** storm when Felton was getting what turned out to be many more opportunities than Augustin has gotten, but some of the same people that were whining back then are trying to write off Augustin already. If the same rules applied to both players, Felton would have been written off halfway during his rookie season.

Don't complain about Augustin sucking when 2,000 of your posts came from complaining about Felton's lack of opportunities. Augustin has been comparable or better than Felton was at this point in his career, and Augustin has had a helluva lot fewer chances to prove himself.

i feel what your saying but my gut tells me that even with the opportunities DJ is pretty much a shorter boobie gibson

That's pretty good to beat Felton many nights. I guess the first month of current season, we were so frustrated that we would all agree upon that.

[W_HAMILTON]

i feel what your saying but my gut tells me that even with the opportunities DJ is pretty much a shorter boobie gibson

Whatever he turns out to be doesn't really factor into what I was talking about; the point is that he hasn't been given much of an opportunity to show what type of player he can be. I don't know the updated numbers, but I know his numbers when he started last season were pretty impressive -- of course, that's not much of a sample size. My point was that I don't see how people can complain about Augustin when just a few years ago they were complaining about Felton not getting opportunities to prove himself, when in fact Felton received many, MANY more opportunities than Augustin has had.

[BigSlam]

Personally I don't view Felton's contract status as a Felts Vs DJ thing. In fact, I'm not sure they could be further removed from each other.

For me this is just a Raymond Felton thing and how much I think he is worth Vs how much I think we should pay him and only that. Nothing else, weather it be what we think another team might pay him or what stage we think DJ is at, has any impact on that.

The only thing I think that should be up for discussion is what we think he is worth as a stand alone player.

[Rich4114]

The true answer is to bring Brevin Knight and Tamar Slay out of retirement

[doc.end]

You are obvously Kevin Burleson hater.

[countryboi]

bring back Jeff McInnis...bring back Touche...i am sure him and phil ford would get along AWESOME!