Joakim's future.

Post #41 » by **dougthonus** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:40 pm

No team in NBA history has, or will ever win a title with only ONE player who can create his own shot consistently

I think the Bulls certainly need more shot creators.

However, the Houston Rockets and Dallas Mavericks didn't have consistent secondary shot creators. Boozer's profile as a creator is certainly better than the 2nd best creator on those teams.

The Explorer · Post #42 » by **The Explorer** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:42 pm

dougthonus wrote:
No team in NBA history has, or will ever win a title with only ONE player who can create his own shot consistently

I think the Bulls certainly need more shot creators.

However, the Houston Rockets and Dallas Mavericks didn't have consistent secondary shot creators. Boozer's profile as a creator is certainly better than the 2nd best creator on those teams.

Clyde Drexler, Vernon Maxwell, Sam Cassell

transplant · Post #43 » by **transplant** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:50 pm

unc1120 wrote:Okay transplant,

You can't comprehend the difference between a team built to win 62 games in the regular season, and a team that wins a championship. You don't understand that teams such as Phil Jackson's old bulls teams and this Miami Heat team have another gear because GREAT players have an extra gear when defense tightens up.

No team in NBA history has, or will ever win a title with only ONE player who can create his own shot consistently

People like you are the cheerleaders that unconditionally act like Bulls management does everything right. They are absolutely terrible. Besides getting the NBA equivalent of the AIG bailout with Rose, all they have proven is that they are good at signing role players like Brewer, and drafting late first rounders.

EDIT: On top of that, they were gifted the "Exec of the year award" (lol at that) because they signed a GREAT coach Thibodaeu who they only signed because they thought the CAA connection would lead to Lebron! And got mad at World Wide Wes! I mean these guys are a bunch of clowns.

They came out of the biggest year in free agent history with Carlos Boozer and role players.
They signed Ben Wallace. LOL
They traded him for Larry Hughes. LOL
They drafted Tyrus over Aldridge when we didn't need that type of player at all
They whiffed on Gasol. They whiffed on Carmelo. They whiffed on Garnett. They whiffed on Stoudemire. They are whiffing on Ellis.

But to people like you that watch Bulls WGN coverage and feed into their propaganda "the price was just to high", or "There wasn't actually a deal available".

Besides that we miss out on EVERY bigtime player thats available EVERY single year.

You realize without the Rose MIRACLE our lineup would be something like

Hinrich
?
Deng
Boozer (if he even still wanted to come which I doubt)/Gibson
Noah/Asik

Its actually funny how anemic that team would be after about 13 years of rebuilding. Give me a break with your snide jokes, and get a reality check. This team isn't winning jack **** without another big time scorer.

All righty then. I'll be brief.

unc1120 wrote:It's beyond me that Noah wasn't traded for Carmelo. And yes, Melo wanted to be a knick, but chicago was definitely on his list until he felt offended we wouldn't deal Noah for him.

I heard a lot of talk, rumors and speculation as the trade deadline approached.

I don't even know for certain whether a serious trade proposal was made by either the Nuggets or Bulls. "Sources said" a few different things, but the main theme was that Anthony wanted the Knicks first, foremost and possibly only. Just about all of the national writers predicted that, if a trade got done, Melo was going to NYC.

Forgetting for the moment that rumor had it that the Nuggets wanted Noah, Deng (actually some sources said that they really didn't want Deng much) and another player, how on earth can you say that it's beyond your ability to believe or understand that Anthony went exactly where just about everyone predicted he would?

And if you have a source for Anthony being offended by the Bulls refusing to offer up Noah, I'd love to see it.

Red Larrivee · Post #44 » by **Red Larrivee** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:53 pm

dougthonus wrote:I think the Bulls certainly need more shot creators.

However, the Houston Rockets and Dallas Mavericks didn't have consistent secondary shot creators. Boozer's profile as a creator is certainly better than the 2nd best creator on those teams.

Mavericks had Dirk, Kidd, Terry and surprisingly Barea as players who could create shots for themselves or others.

I'd add the 04 Pistons though to that list. Billups seemed to be the only guy who you could single out to get his. Everybody else played off.

MF Doom · Post #45 » by **MF Doom** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:55 pm

unc1120 - Your reaching and are looking for reasons to complain.

HotelVitale · Post #46 » by **HotelVitale** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:51 am

Noah still needs some time before we decide if he's unlucky, injury-prone, or an injury-plagued disaster. I don't see any reason to conclude he hasn't been unlucky so far.

Also, if Boozer doesn't suck this last playoffs, do we still waste breath wondering who we could get for Noah? Fact is, Boozer is a very good player who didn't play that well against the Heat (and in a handful of other playoff games), just like Lebron is still a very very very good player who didn't play that well against the Mavs. Boozer needs to be used better, and he needs to play better when it matters (btw, he has in the past--he's had playoff PERs of over 20 two times in his career, and put up 20/13 in 09-10 playoffs). A solid, typically Boozer-esque year from him on offense and you guys will all be loving the combo of him and Noah, right?

ballerkingn2 · Post #47 » by **ballerkingn2** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:05 am

His future is here,he actually needs to just have more confidence in his offense game,its actually not that bad. He had a nice left hook,good around the basket and can make an outside jumper when left wide open. He also has some nice handles and his passing skills is great. He just needs to show more confidence and like others have said stay on the court to learn his teammate tendencies. I think that killed him over the years because it seemed like the team went from an outside hustle team,to a inside drive and post team that played defense. I without a doubt think he will be great for us once he learns his teammates and system better and should imo average 12 and 11 easy. If TC who is the closest comparison can just about average that off of all oops and put backs. I think jokim can with more of an offensive game then TC ever had. The only thing TC had is that he was more athletic and longer then jokim which helped him score in a up tempo system. Still jokim will be fine I think if we have a season he will be a all star right behind howard this year. If noah can stay completely healthy. So please guys don't fret he will be ready when the time is right and he will be under paid and be the main part of our teams success in the future.

Hayes · Post #48 » by **Hayes** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:52 am

HotelVitale wrote:Noah still needs some time before we decide if he's unlucky, injury-prone, or an injury-plagued disaster. I don't see any reason to conclude he hasn't been unlucky so far.

Also, if Boozer doesn't suck this last playoffs, do we still waste breath wondering who we could get for Noah? Fact is, Boozer is a very good player who didn't play that well against the Heat (and in a handful of other playoff games), just like Lebron is still a very very very good player who didn't play that well against the Mavs. Boozer needs to be used better, and he needs to play better when it matters (btw, he has in the past--he's had playoff PERs of over 20 two times in his career, and put up 20/13 in 09-10 playoffs). A solid, typically Boozer-esque year from him on offense and you guys will all be loving the combo of him and Noah, right?

No doubt we'd all be happy but IMO Boozer's best years were with a C that stood at the 3pt line which gave him the space he needs. We all know how much Boozer struggles with any sort of length let alone when he's double teamed near the rim. We don't have a 3pt shooting C so I think what we saw in the playoffs from Boozer we better get used to.

drivewayball · Post #49 » by **drivewayball** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:51 am

Noah for Monta Ellis and Rose for Dwight Howard = Bulls best team in NBA.

Mobby · Post #50 » by **Mobby** » Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:27 am

drivewayball wrote:Noah for Monta Ellis and Rose for Dwight Howard = Bulls best team in NBA.

>.< But it's Rooose...

Post #51 » by **TNBT** » Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:30 pm

It has already been said, but I'll say it again: If Noah is injured for long enough to consider trading him, then no one is going to give us anything of value for him. The only time Noah, or any player, has value in a trade is when he is healthy, and as we know, we wouldn't trade a healthy Noah.

When it comes to Boozer, I look at him the same way as I do Noah. Both had their injury problems last season, but both have shown when healthy in the past that they can be very good players. I think we should stick with both of them, as in my opinion, they form a very very good inside combo. If he can stay healthy, Boozer should work beautifully with Rose in the pick-and-roll game, finishing around the basket and stepping out for the mid-range jumper. Add in Noah's energy and hustle on the defensive end, and we have a big man who is very very good at each end of the floor. Add in the fact that both are very good rebounders, and I like the look of those two lining up for the Bulls for a lot of years to come.

PMONSTER · Post #52 » by **PMONSTER** » Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:04 pm

The Next Big Thing wrote:It has already been said, but I'll say it again: If Noah is injured for long enough to consider trading him, then no one is going to give us anything of value for him. The only time Noah, or any player, has value in a trade is when he is healthy, and as we know, we wouldn't trade a healthy Noah.

Yup. Like this is the best time to trade Deng but nobody wants to do that but if he gets injured again then we are going to want to trade him and people are going to point out his injury. It sucks that our 2-4 best players are like that.

Post #53 » by **TNBT** » Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:10 pm

PMONSTER wrote:
The Next Big Thing wrote:It has already been said, but I'll say it again: If Noah is injured for long enough to consider trading him, then no one is going to give us anything of value for him. The only time Noah, or any player, has value in a trade is when he is healthy, and as we know, we wouldn't trade a healthy Noah.

Yup. Like this is the best time to trade Deng but nobody wants to do that but if he gets injured again then we are going to want to trade him and people are going to point out his injury. It sucks that our 2-4 best players are like that.

Exactly. Everyone was volunteering to help Deng pack his bags and drive him to the airport when he was injured, but they don't seem to understand that he was worth very little then. Now that he is healthy and playing well, no one wants to see him go. However, if we were ever going to trade Deng and have a chance at getting something decent in return, we'd have to trade him now.

Basically, you very rarely get anything of value without giving up something of value... unless of course you happen to be the Lakers trading for Pau Gasol.

Post #54 » by **TNBT** » Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:12 pm

Stupid double-post.

PMONSTER · Post #55 » by **PMONSTER** » Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:19 pm

The Next Big Thing wrote:Stupid double-post.

Just go back and edit it

Mobby · Post #56 » by **Mobby** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:13 am

We should trade Deng right now. Then Noah and Boozer next year when they're completely healed. And might as well trade Derrick Rose right now while we're at it.

Post #57 » by **coldfish** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:00 am

First off, Asik is an above average defensive center, but truly horrible on offense. One of the worst I have ever seen. He has no moves and no feel. I'm not sure how much he can improve either because he looks like he just isn't coordinated. Kind of like Shaq and free throw shooting, which never improved. You might be able to start Asik on a team stacked with offensive players, but not this team.

Regardless, I see two issues with Noah:
- His health. He isn't injury prone yet. His problems this year seemed flukey, particularly pulling his hand apart on a rim. That being said, there comes a time where a guy is legitimately injury prone.

There are ironmen in this league that never seem to get injured. I highly doubt that to be the case, which is an indication that there are guys in the league that are able to play through injury without it impacting their play too much. As an example, I think Derrick is an ironman. Over his career, it has been reported that he has had knee, wrist, back, etc. issues and he never missed many games and the only time I have seen it affect him was the ankle. I would bet that if Deng, Boozer or Noah had the same exact injuries as Rose, they would have either missed more time than Derrick or had it impact their play more.

- The other issue with Noah is that while he appears to be a great defensive center with his help, his man to man D is overrated. He gets lit up a lot, even when healthy. Not sure exactly why this is. Maybe overhelping, maybe his lack of weight makes him give up position.

.......

Overall, there isn't much point to "giving up on Noah". All that we can do right now is hope that he gets healthy, stays healthy and gets stronger.

Hayes · Post #58 » by **Hayes** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:31 am

Yeah Noah is a good team defender but if he has to guard anyone that's bigger than him he's going to get scored on. Kind of like how Boozer can't score on anyone that's taller than him.

BULLHITTER · Post #59 » by **BULLHITTER** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:46 pm

First off, Asik is an above average defensive center, but truly horrible on offense. One of the worst I have ever seen. He has no moves and no feel. I'm not sure how much he can improve either because he looks like he just isn't coordinated. Kind of like Shaq and free throw shooting, which never improved. You might be able to start Asik on a team stacked with offensive players, but not this team.

oh no you di'int.....

imo, it's a stretch to call him above average defensively; if guys didn't put the ball right in his face when driving, he'd get fewer blocks and he's appeared (imo) to be a sucker for a pump fake. i'd stop short of calling him a stiff, but it's my belief he's a career backup without question.

Hennessy · Post #60 » by **Hennessy** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:02 pm

Asik, definitely bench player for career, such a low confident expression on his face, it is shocking he even likes to dunk. That is his advantage though, no one pays any attention to him which is why he throws down in someones face maybe once a game on average...

Noah, I can't stand watching him on offense, even though he does care but that's why he sucks, so caught up in his emotions he can't do a simple put back. Too damn tall to not be able to softly hit the ball against the backboard to make a shot. Sometimes it looks like he shoots before he looks, while facing the rim... I think is defense is great as well as everything else, I agree with what someone else said about Noah understanding better how his teammates play too, he the damn center, that should be his specialty as well as paying attention to opposing teams...