Grade the Suns draft

[carey]

Well I gave it a B only because we didn't trade Gortat and get a higher rated wing. I unlike the most of you guys here, I didn't like McLemore. People here thought the McLemore stuff from us was a smoke screen, guess not! I see McLemore as Brandon Rush 2.0...Enough with him, he isn't apart of the discussion anymore.

Right. And if we want Brandon Rush we can probably sign Brandon Rush. He's probably going to opt out of that $4Mil player option he has with Golden State. He's coming off an ACL tear in his left knee. I would be remiss if I didn't say that he also had an ACL tear in his right knee back in 2007 while a Jayhawk.

[carey]

We drafted a role playing center, a Brook Lopez at the VERY best (making him an all star, but I really doubt it). Ben is a tremendously athletic player, and Noel is too.

If he's Brook Lopez I'm one happy MFer. You have to be stoked with getting that production in this draft.

[RunDogGun]

Well I gave it a B only because we didn't trade Gortat and get a higher rated wing. I unlike the most of you guys here, I didn't like McLemore. People here thought the McLemore stuff from us was a smoke screen, guess not! I see McLemore as Brandon Rush 2.0...Enough with him, he isn't apart of the discussion anymore.

Right. And if we want Brandon Rush we can probably sign Brandon Rush. He's probably going to opt out of that $4Mil player option he has with Golden State. He's coming off an ACL tear in his left knee. I would be remiss if I didn't say that he also had an ACL tear in his right knee back in 2007 while a Jayhawk.

I really liked Rush in GS, and if he is healed, I think he would be great. But with Brown still on the roster, I don't see us going higher than the $4 million he'd be giving up, or the years he would want to opt out.

It's scary how many ACL tears there were last season.

[RaisingArizona]

I'm going with A.

Len is big, young, athletic and has potential to be the star center we've never had. Just days ago he was rumored to go first and we got him. Noel was obviously flagged because of his knee and McClemore was deemed lazy or undetermined by the Suns.

Goodwin has a really high ceiling albeit he's really raw. Give him minutes this year, work on his shooting with Horny and Eddie and let him develop into a starting combo guard.

I was disappointed when we passed on Noel and McC at first, but after thinking it over, 5 other teams did as well.
There had to be some legitimate reasons why we did. I'm excited to see what Len and Goodwin can do.

[GetYourPHX]

I gave the draft a B because the FO didn't acquire any additional picks. I like the Len pick, but he fell into their lap. Same with Goodwin. There's no amazing moves here to reward the FO with an A.

That being said, I really like Len. I thought he was worthy of the first overall pick and I'm glad the Suns grabbed him at 5. I let out a sigh of relief when Zeller was off the board at 4, I really think he was the pick at 5 with Oladipo gone.

The reason I like Len so much is because of the playoffs this year. Teams that had big bruising centers did surprisingly well. Think Memphis vs. OKC, Indiana vs. Miami. Think of the impact Hibbert had on the Heat vs. what Sanders did to them. Sanders got pushed around versus the champs while Hibbert anchored a team that took them to the brink of elimination. Marc Gasol absolutely destroyed the Thunder and turned them into a jumpshooting team. I don't think the "you can't teach 7-foot" line of thinking is completely arbitrary in the NBA just yet.

In three years, when this team is actually ready to contend, Len could be that guy for the Suns. Mclemore reminds me too much of Wes Johnson - pretty shot, fluid athlete, lack of ball handling skills, etc. If the training staff red-flagged Noel's knee, they red-flagged it. I remember when they red-flagged Amare's knee, and lo and behold, two years later, they're right.

Moving forward, I expect the Suns to move Scola and Dudley. I really don't think a Gortat trade is going to happen for a while, and that actually might be a good thing. His value has plummeted so far at this point he might resign for a contract that's similar to the one he's playing at right now.

Interesting targets for Scola and Dudley could be guys like Wilson Chandler, Marcus Thornton, Alec Burks, Aaron Afflalo etc. There's plenty of young-ish wings on reasonable contracts chomping at the bit for a chance to start, and that's something we could give them. The FO could still be looking into trading for Gordon or signing Mayo too.

The Suns will be bad this year, but nothing could change that. I won't be mad unless they start letting assets walk out the door with nothing coming back.

[BVPN]

B-. There's a lot of red flags around Len; advanced stats don't like him, especially defensively, he has injury issues, and his effort level in college was not consistent, I'm gonna trust the new gm for now and hope he works out, but his insistence that we'd have taken Len even if we had the number one pick was concerning. Meaning Len had better pan out, or there is some bad decision making going on in our FO. The fact that McD has been scouting this guy for years makes me think he might have locked in on him way prematurely and been ignoring his flaws.

That said, Archie Goodwin was a really good pick and redeemed the draft somewhat. Alex Oriakhi, whatever, no comment. It's doubtful he will play much of a meaningful role on the team but it's the 57th pick anyway.

[GetYourPHX]

I'll also repost these videos of Alex Len vs. Nerlens Noel when they played because they got buried in the onslaught of the draft thread.

Stats from the game
Len - 24 pts, 12 rbs, 4 blks
Noel - 4 pts, 9 rbs, 4 blks

Long version
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wp2aA2QE-Q[/youtube]


Highlights
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IknKniuYCic[/youtube]

[JMac1]

Mclemore reminds me too much of Wes Johnson - pretty shot, fluid athlete, lack of ball handling skills, etc.

Crap...How did I forget this!!!? Exactly....Rush or Wes is McLemore. Hibbert, Gasol and B.Lopez are Len types....but Len is more athletic than all of them!! Len could be a thicker, meaner Pau Gasol.. Great building block in my book. Some of you guys should start reading it

[GetYourPHX]

Mclemore reminds me too much of Wes Johnson - pretty shot, fluid athlete, lack of ball handling skills, etc.

Crap...How did I forget this!!!? Exactly....Rush or Wes is McLemore. Hibbert, Gasol and B.Lopez are Len types....but Len is more athletic than all of them!! Len could be a thicker, meaner Pau Gasol.. Great building block in my book. Some of you guys should start reading it

You're right, that's a little overboard. Still, there wasn't a single can't miss prospect in the draft, so you can't fault a GM for taking one of the top guys and the fans being optimistic about it.

Like I said in the draft thread before, I was going to be happy as long as we picked any one of Len, McLemore, Noel, Bennett, Oldipo, or Porter. We'll see how they all look three years from now.

[Cash]

You can get away with playing only forwards around your PG if your PG is Nash or Chris Paul, but not if it's Goran Dragic. No knock on Drago, I still like the guy a lot, but he's realistically never going to be an All-NBA player who can do it by himself. He needs at least a little help in the backcourt.

Definitely.

Check out the last two months of last season for Dragic though. He posted 8.5 then 9.4 assists per game with this **** roster. That is positively Chris Paul like. I can see him doing that for the season if we could just surround him with players that can shoot and finish.

Oh yeah, I think Dragic's a keeper. I have no problem with him being a starter on a championship-caliber team. Probably not the best player, but if he keeps improving, maybe 2nd or 3rd...

I definitely won't kill the Suns the way everyone did in the draft thread, because it's not like McLemore or Noel are sure-fire all-stars. Both of those guys have high bust potential, and it's arguable how high McLemore's ceiling is, especially if you're one of those who doubts his work ethic. The Suns should be trying to acquire stars -- i.e., bump Dragic down from our best player to 2nd or 3rd even as he gets better. They think they got a star in Len, and maybe they're right. But if they're wrong, and either Noel or McLemore does become a star, it's an indefensibly bad pick. If someone random like Gobert or whoever becomes a star, it's still a bad pick, but you can defend it at that point.

[Cash]

I
The reason I like Len so much is because of the playoffs this year. Teams that had big bruising centers did surprisingly well. Think Memphis vs. OKC, Indiana vs. Miami. Think of the impact Hibbert had on the Heat vs. what Sanders did to them. Sanders got pushed around versus the champs while Hibbert anchored a team that took them to the brink of elimination. Marc Gasol absolutely destroyed the Thunder and turned them into a jumpshooting team. I don't think the "you can't teach 7-foot" line of thinking is completely arbitrary in the NBA just yet.

In three years, when this team is actually ready to contend, Len could be that guy for the Suns. Mclemore reminds me too much of Wes Johnson - pretty shot, fluid athlete, lack of ball handling skills, etc. If the training staff red-flagged Noel's knee, they red-flagged it. I remember when they red-flagged Amare's knee, and lo and behold, two years later, they're right.

Very good post! However, I respectfully disagree with some of your points regarding Len. Regarding bigs/playoffs, I think we need to look separately at offense and defense. Offensively, Memphis and Indiana had great success because each team had two traditional bigs who could punish teams that went small. 99% of all "small-ball" lineups still include 1 traditional big. If you only have 1 big who can score, it's hard to punish teams for going small on you. That's why the Spurs didn't both playing Matt Bonner against Miami's small lineups -- you're not going to throw it to Bonner in the low post and expect anything good to happen, even if he's guarded by Mike Miller. So maybe Len could be a piece of the puzzle in this respect, but for it to really pay off, you need to pair him with a traditional PF who's quick enough to guard most small-ball and stretch 4s, but a good enough power game to take advantage of a smaller defender. The Suns do kind of have that guy in Luis Scola, but I'd be pretty surprised if he was still on the roster in 3 years or even 2. And those kind of guys aren't easy to find, so I don't think we can count on the Suns finding a replacement any time soon.

Defensively, you absolutely make a good point. Having a defensive 5 who's as good as Hibbert or Gasol is an amazing advantage, and the single biggest factor in a team's defense. I just have my doubts about whether Len can ever be that guy. He's 7'1", and that's great, and his 7'3" wingspan is good enough to be a legit rim protector. But he looks sluggish in all of his highlight videos. (Just my opinion; others may disagree.) I don't know if he has the footspeed or instincts to defend the pick and roll; he seems more like a plodder. For my money, I'm comfortable with my defensive 5 looking more like KG or Tyson Chandler or Larry Sanders than Hibbert or Gasol. (For the record, I didn't really think Sanders got pushed around all that much, just that his team was way overmatched all over the place. Not a fair fight.)

Anyway, I hope I'm wrong defensively, but that's how I feel right now. I'm also scared of his rebounding. I know he didn't play a ton of minutes, but 7.8 RPG for a guy his size is not good. And college rebounding usually translates pretty well to the NBA. (Not always -- just ask Michael Beasley.)

RE: McLemore, I won't pretend to know how his career will pan out. I definitely wanted him on the Suns, because SG is the scarcest position in the NBA right now, they dearly need one, and McLemore has tons of upside in very good ways. I don't care about the "he didn't take over games" criticism. But I DO care about the "he can't dribble" criticism. If he doesn't develop his handles enough to become an effective slasher and consistently get to the rim, then he winds up as a more-athletic Brandon Rush or Jared Dudley. Which is still a good player, but also nothing special. If that's all McLemore ever becomes, then the Suns will have been right to pass on him -- even if Len becomes a total bust.

[NashtyNas]

I gave us a B - but I feel like it should be a C.
We got very lucky Len fell in to our lap - he may turn out to be one of the best players of the entire draft, and quickly. However the way we handled the end of the draft was ridiculously bad, and the inexperience in our front office showed. GS destroyed everyone there, but I felt like we let them use us. We could have got the guy we wanted without giving up anything @26 by simply calling Minny and buying their pick, then selling our 29th to GS. That would have meant we dictated the terms of the deal rather than GS. I just felt like it was a major failure, but luckily it was at the END of the draft and not the beginning, so I'll take it.

C+ to B- from me, overall.

[Catchall]

Jazz fan here. I really like Goodwin and think he'll shoot just fine after working with Hornacek for a few months.

[No-Man]

For me it's a C
I think Goodwin would be good, at least an slasher that get you instant offense, but Len... uf, not sure about him, and the fact that you let McLemore and Noel slip... could be a major backslash in a few years.

I just don't know... which exciting player the Suns have right now? I understand that the plan is rebuilding, tanking, probably trading Gortat during the year, and Scola this Offseason... but I just don't know.

McLemore would be an instant ROY candidate here, he seems dumb and naive, but he's young and he comes from a difficult enviroment, it's just natural.

[thamadkant]

We don't know if Mclemore would be instant ROY, at least the Suns scout and GM didn't think so.

I'm hoping Len is the Kevin Love of this draft basically picked 5 but better than the first four.
And Goodwin develops rightl.

McD and Hornacek believes Goodwin would of developed to a better player had he stayed for 2014 draft instead and would be top 10.... All they did is draft him securely and let him learn the game from NBA coaches instead of College coaches.. As well as learn under NBA pro conditions...

[JMac1]

The more I read up on Goodwin, the more I like the pick. I understand why McD wants him to play PG...Rondo, duh! He doesn't have to be Nash or Curry with his shot....... Goodwin could play with Goran easy... Goran plays really well when he is at the 2 or looking to score. I hope Goodwin beats Marshall like a dog and stay in the NBA....no D league.

We are rebuilding and we took a chance on two boom guys, bout time. I can't believe some people are upset...no more safe picks. McLemore was a safe pick; "he is NBA ready." that is a euphemism for safe pick. If Len and Goodwin develops (only 18 and 20)....our PG and Center is golden for the next 13 years!!! If not, oh well. But you start your team with a QB and OL/DL...

Great job McD...........if the guys pan out.

[nevetsov]

So our current depth chart, post draft with options intact (current positions and pecking order):

PG: Dragic, Marshall, Garrett (QO)

SG: Tucker, Brown (TO), Goodwin

SF: Dudley, Marcus

PF: Markieff, Scola, Beasley, Oriakhi

C: Gortat, Len, Haddadi (TO), Frye (IR)



Roster currently stands at 16.

[mirv]

The more I think about it, the more I really like the 3 picks. Len seems like he is really skilled and he could be very very good.
I'm really excited about Goodwin, he could end up being the perfect player next to Dragic, especially if he can learn to how shoot at least 35% from 3. Dragic needs someone next to him to share the court general role, This way we could end up having 2 guards that can play both on and off the ball.

Oriakhi should be a pretty good back-up big man. A hustle and rebounding type.

I think we will move Gortat and maybe the morris bros by the deadline if not the start of the season. Hopefully can get some sort of value for them.

[donMartini123]

Suns report they are willing to keep Gortat - as of now. That's a very interesting statement, for this topic too. Personally, I like Alex Len and think he's a great pick. Was no fan of Noel and the letting McLemore pass... I wouldn't have done that, but I like Len as well, so I'm fine with it. Goodwin is an exiting prospect too. Oriakhi I don't really care about, but I would've liked a foreign prospect to be stashed a little better. Overall, it makes me give a B because I would have hoped for another draft pick (bought).

However, if we are willing to keep Gortat. Would it be possible to play Gortat and Len together? Kind of like Randolph - Gasol in Memphis? Or would opposing small pf's pose problems for us defensively then?

[rsavaj]

I give it a C.

I like the Goodwin pick. I think it makes a lot of sense to pick a project at 29, and if we have the proper player development structure in place, I think we may have a quality player on our hands in a few years.

I don't understand picking Len over Noel and McLemore. I understand that McDonough does this for a living, whereas all I have to go on is the majority opinion of the scouts I read online, but it seems like we picked a guy who sequestration consistently rated below the two guys picked below him. I know draftexpress(Givony and Schmitz) had Len first on their Big Board, but almost every other source had Noel as the number one dude.

Now, some will point to the fact that multiple teams passed on Noel and Ben; well, until we picked, those same teams passed on Len too. My relatively uninformed forecast is that both Noel and McLemore will be better pros. For all the talk about Noel being inept offensively and Len being skilled, the numbers say that their offensive impact is almost equal; in fact, Noel shot better on twos away from the rim than Len did. Plus, Noel is regarded as the number one defensive prospect in the draft, and the Indiana series showed just how important a rim protector is. Add that to the fact that his weight issues were wildly overblown and you have a guy I'm very upset about passing up.

As far as Ben goes, he was also ranked higher in the majority of rankings I read. I don't know how you can pass on an elite athlete who is also an elite shooter, all while being a plus defender too. Sure, there are a lot of questions about his assertiveness, but in my mind, he was a surefire pick. Even if he never becomes the alpha dog, guys who can shoot and move like he can are starters on playoff teams. And I don't understand the character concerns. He's never been reported to be a bad dude or a knucklehead; indeed, Simmons, Rose and Ford said he was one of the sweetest kids they met. Ford said Ben was a little naive, but the kid grew up broke and hungry, and he's worked hard to get where he is.

The only reason I can see Len over those guys making sense is if Ben really did completely blow his workout, or if we really did redflag Noel and his knee. However, the latest report says we never even got a look at his medical info, so the red flag stuff doesn't make sense. Plus, his doc(one of the leading ortho surgeons in the country) and the Cavs med team have cleared him and said his rehab is ahead of schedule. If the issue really is a worry about injury concerns, stress fractures are kinda worrisomely chronic little beasts too(Yao, Z).

I'm not saying Len was a bad pick. We had the fifth pick, and we got a guy who was consistently regarded as a top 5 prospect....but we passed on guys ranked higher. I know McDonough is an expert and said he was their unanimous number one, but remember, the second best player Boston drafted in the last 8 years is Avery Bradley. Even taking into account their draft position, that's not very inspiring:

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2013/ ... -in-review

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2013/ ... ses-part-2

Len is an interesting pick. He's a dude the eyes like but the numbers loathe. I'm not a fan of the decision to draft him, but I very much hope that our staff is right about him, and I'll be rooting hard for his success.