PHX/OKC

[Texas Chuck]

I realize the currency comparisons get sloppy, I do it myself. But calling the assets offered "dimes" compared to a dollar implies one tenth the value.

But if you agree these assets are worth more than a tenth, you may want to rethink the value. It's fine for OKC.

I'd agree that the parts are 1/10th of the value and that the OP is asking the Thunder to take 60 cents on the dollar for Ibaka with no explanation.

Getting into semantics doesn't increase the value of the poo poo platter offered by the Suns.

So Ibaka is worth ten first round picks.

Depending on where those picks are, he could be worth more. No hyberbole. If you offered OKC the 15th pick in the next 10 drafts I would tell them to turn it down. Now if you offered them just one 1st round pick, but it was really high in the right draft that potentially could make some sense. Take the 03 draft. Give them a top 4 pick that year and as long as they don't blow it on Darko....

You can't just toss around "1st rounder". The difference in value in specific picks can be nearly infinitely enormous. You have the first pick in the Shaq, Duncan, Lebron drafts its priceless. Literally priceless. You wouldn't ever consider trading it for anything.

[KuruptedCav]

I realize the currency comparisons get sloppy, I do it myself. But calling the assets offered "dimes" compared to a dollar implies one tenth the value.

But if you agree these assets are worth more than a tenth, you may want to rethink the value. It's fine for OKC.

I'd agree that the parts are 1/10th of the value and that the OP is asking the Thunder to take 60 cents on the dollar for Ibaka with no explanation.

Getting into semantics doesn't increase the value of the poo poo platter offered by the Suns.

So Ibaka is worth ten first round picks.

In a lot of cases, yes, a number of players are worth more than 10 first round picks. There are quality, timing, and roster concerns that go into the equation. You can pay me $2500 to probate an estate with 250,000 pennies. It has value, but it's worth a lot less to me than a check.

[Frank Lee]

The real question is where can Morris be traded if he butt-hurtedly requests out ? On the Suns board three pages were devoted to a Gasol deal, and now Ibaka is closing in on the same. I think the simple move is for Taj Gibson. Not as flashy for Phoenix, but what can you expect? I just hope he does not go too public with his departing desires. He already has enough drama from last yr, no need to spill into this one. Just play ball Keif.

I think Phoenix keeps the MoBro if they can make nice again. It should be their priority. Bang for the buck, Morris has good value. The Suns can't do much better with their limited offerings.

[MrPerfect1]

OKC wouldn't do this trade because they are currently in Win Now mode so future picks are kinda meh to them.

While Ibaka is good, I also wouldn't make a godfather offer for him. He reminds me of Draymond Green, he is a #3 on a Title Contender but nowhere near what you would want as the face of the franchise.

[Mr Swagtastic]

Oklahoma City say no here very fast, Ibaka is a defensive player of the year guy. He puts up very good numbers as a 3rd fiddle, I don't see any very good pieces going to OKC I see some okay pieces in Goodwin and Kief then a very bad pick and a so-so pick.

A deal that easily beats this is Terrence Ross, Bruno Caboclo, New York or Denver's first next year, the right to swap first round picks with Toronto in 2016 or in 2017 and The LAC pick we got as part of the Vasquez deal

[djthesonicsfan]

Classic case of an offer that illustrates just how little is understood about a team's strategic objectives. Bottom line, we're aiming at a title run and Ibaka is a huge part of that effort. He's not going anywhere for any deal like this. This is the kind of offer that ensures the next time you call no one answers the phone.

[nba2k16]

For the last time, Ibaka isn't going anywhere. And this isn't even a good package. And I don't think stranger things have happened, you couldn't even list a reason for OKC which should sort of make it lockable but I won't because I don't really care.

That's a pretty attractive package though. That's a ton of value. Really like that archie Goodwin pick, great young talent that will be a star real soon.

I think if I'm OKC I take that and run. Already have Kanter who is younger and has potential and there is a risk of Durant and WB leaving in the next few years. This trade at least replenishes the pipeline with a lot of youth to build around in the future

[bondom34]

For the last time, Ibaka isn't going anywhere. And this isn't even a good package. And I don't think stranger things have happened, you couldn't even list a reason for OKC which should sort of make it lockable but I won't because I don't really care.

That's a pretty attractive package though. That's a ton of value. Really like that archie Goodwin pick, great young talent that will be a star real soon.

I think if I'm OKC I take that and run. Already have Kanter who is younger and has potential and there is a risk of Durant and WB leaving in the next few years. This trade at least replenishes the pipeline with a lot of youth to build around in the future

Um....

Kanter is an awful defender, made worse by losing Ibaka. Put it this way, if you wouldn't trade DJ for that package, its not enough for Ibaka so that's a counter. And that's not a ton of value, 2 late firsts and a couple of OK prospects for a top defender?

And all this does is makes sure, 100 percent that Durant leaves, which at this point is unlikely, so that is honestly the worst reasoning you could use.

Take that package for Deandre or nah? If nah, then again, this isn't close, because I'd take Ibaka over DJ.

[nba2k16]

For the last time, Ibaka isn't going anywhere. And this isn't even a good package. And I don't think stranger things have happened, you couldn't even list a reason for OKC which should sort of make it lockable but I won't because I don't really care.

That's a pretty attractive package though. That's a ton of value. Really like that archie Goodwin pick, great young talent that will be a star real soon.

I think if I'm OKC I take that and run. Already have Kanter who is younger and has potential and there is a risk of Durant and WB leaving in the next few years. This trade at least replenishes the pipeline with a lot of youth to build around in the future

Um....

Kanter is an awful defender, made worse by losing Ibaka. Put it this way, if you wouldn't trade DJ for that package, its not enough for Ibaka so that's a counter. And that's not a ton of value, 2 late firsts and a couple of OK prospects for a top defender?

And all this does is makes sure, 100 percent that Durant leaves, which at this point is unlikely, so that is honestly the worst reasoning you could use.

Take that package for Deandre or nah? If nah, then again, this isn't close, because I'd take Ibaka over DJ.

I wouldn't take that for DJ he's too important to our team but that's a bad comparison DJ > Ibaka.

Yeah i could see how that would piss off Durant. But i think the writing is on the Wall isn't it (John Wall to be exact... lol) that he's leaving to go home, hence all the praise he gave to guys like LeBron for going home or leaving to get chips.

[bondom34]

That's a pretty attractive package though. That's a ton of value. Really like that archie Goodwin pick, great young talent that will be a star real soon.

I think if I'm OKC I take that and run. Already have Kanter who is younger and has potential and there is a risk of Durant and WB leaving in the next few years. This trade at least replenishes the pipeline with a lot of youth to build around in the future

Um....

Kanter is an awful defender, made worse by losing Ibaka. Put it this way, if you wouldn't trade DJ for that package, its not enough for Ibaka so that's a counter. And that's not a ton of value, 2 late firsts and a couple of OK prospects for a top defender?

And all this does is makes sure, 100 percent that Durant leaves, which at this point is unlikely, so that is honestly the worst reasoning you could use.

Take that package for Deandre or nah? If nah, then again, this isn't close, because I'd take Ibaka over DJ.

I wouldn't take that for DJ he's too important to our team but that's a bad comparison DJ > Ibaka.

Yeah i could see how that would piss off Durant. But i think the writing is on the Wall isn't it (John Wall to be exact... lol) that he's leaving to go home, hence all the praise he gave to guys like LeBron for going home or leaving to get chips.

Nope, its not. He didn't praise anyone for going home, he said it was their choice. To be honest, he's currently (or just got back from) LA, where he along with Westbrook and Ibaka organized workouts with the team and new coaches. Doesn't sound like a guy who wants out. I'd also be interested to see him say anything about wanting to go home, because I've never heard him say it. I've heard him say it is a choice some guys have made, which is a fact, but not ever that he's interested in it. Maybe he's waiting for Blake to come home to OKC, seems inevitable he's going to IMO. There's a better chance to win in OKC than LA.

But ask around NBA front offices, and you’ll find that the consensus remains that, heading into the final season of his contract, Durant is likely to remain in Oklahoma City. He’s comfortable there, he can take in a bigger paycheck there, and he actually should be able to win there.

http://theweeklychallenger.com/kevin-durant-watch-sizing-up-thunder-stars-2016-free-agency-prospects/

Were you surprised to see LaMarcus Aldridge move?

“No, I wasn’t. You could kind of tell once this whole thing started that he was trying to go somewhere else. But in those decisions, man, you’ve just got to respect the guy for making a decision that was right for him. I know a lot of fans were probably upset in Portland with the decision. But at this point of your life and your career, you’ve got to focus on you. I said this last year when Mr. James made his decision, it was pretty cool to see a guy do what he wants to do and not worry about what everybody thinks.”

When you see all the attention LaMarcus and DeAndre [Jordan] have gotten the last few days, have you thought at all about next summer and yourself?

“No I haven’t thought about it. I hear it all the time but I really am just focusing on rehab. I can’t get there unless I take care of today. That’s the way I look at it even though I hear it from every side, thinking past to next summer. But I’m not even trying to focus on that. I’m excited about our team, our new coaches and just trying to get back right.”

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/writer/ken-berger/25240123

Most league execs informally polled here at Summer League expect Durant to stay in Oklahoma City when he hits the market next summer. There are only a handful of teams that can legitimately think they're an option. The Lakers, the Mavs and the Wizards (in Durant's hometown) are in the mix, for starters. The Knicks? I mean, I guess, in theory.

As well, trading a guy to make sure he leaves would be terrible terrible awful logic, given its likely he stays.

Spoiler:

He's clearly doing this just to look like more of a jerk when he leaves.

And to OKC, Ibaka > DJ. Durant

So you're pretty dead wrong on both counts, again. And if you'd like to throw some sort of baseless speculation out there in the future, should probably try to actually be sure it makes sense.

[Andre Roberstan]

I just can't any more, you guys. Do any of you even watch OKC?

Ibaka's not going anywhere, especially for this. He's too important to our defense and our spacing. He's going to get a contract at least equivalent to what Wes got this year when he comes up for renewal. The man's a 6'10", supremely athletic Danny Green who's also a top 3 or 4 rim protector.

Don't lowball for that.

[NavLDO]

I realize the currency comparisons get sloppy, I do it myself. But calling the assets offered "dimes" compared to a dollar implies one tenth the value.

But if you agree these assets are worth more than a tenth, you may want to rethink the value. It's fine for OKC.

I'd agree that the parts are 1/10th of the value and that the OP is asking the Thunder to take 60 cents on the dollar for Ibaka with no explanation.

Getting into semantics doesn't increase the value of the poo poo platter offered by the Suns.

No offense Mr. Al, but anyone not a Suns fan looks at this trade as:

role player-role player-role player-mid-1st-early 2nd (equivalence, basically) for a budding star and 3 time NBA 1st Team All-D

And not to mention one of those role players will likely earn a suspension, at the very least; one is one year removed from a DUI and has time mgmt issues; one is super raw and may never turn out to be more than a solid back-up.

The Suns would need to swap out of them for either Warren or Knight, switch a draft pick like the Heat 2021 pick, or they throw in Adams and the Suns include Len, so...

Kieff+Len+Goodwin+Heat 2021 unprotected 1st for Ibaka+Adams

Westbrook-Waiters-Durant-Kieff-Len for OKC

Bledsoe-Knight-Warren-Ibaka-Chandler for the Suns

...and that STILL looks like bad value for OKC.

Yeah, I know, stats-blah-blah-blah, but Ibaka and his 15/8.5/2.5blks average for the past two years would be missed--OKC, as it stands, looks really good as is, so I see no reason for them to change anything up

[bondom34]

I don't even think I'd swap Adams for Len straight up.

[KD35Brah]

That's a pretty attractive package though. That's a ton of value. Really like that archie Goodwin pick, great young talent that will be a star real soon.

I think if I'm OKC I take that and run. Already have Kanter who is younger and has potential and there is a risk of Durant and WB leaving in the next few years. This trade at least replenishes the pipeline with a lot of youth to build around in the future

Um....

Kanter is an awful defender, made worse by losing Ibaka. Put it this way, if you wouldn't trade DJ for that package, its not enough for Ibaka so that's a counter. And that's not a ton of value, 2 late firsts and a couple of OK prospects for a top defender?

And all this does is makes sure, 100 percent that Durant leaves, which at this point is unlikely, so that is honestly the worst reasoning you could use.

Take that package for Deandre or nah? If nah, then again, this isn't close, because I'd take Ibaka over DJ.

I wouldn't take that for DJ he's too important to our team but that's a bad comparison DJ > Ibaka.

Yeah i could see how that would piss off Durant. But i think the writing is on the Wall isn't it (John Wall to be exact... lol) that he's leaving to go home, hence all the praise he gave to guys like LeBron for going home or leaving to get chips.

Based on what exactly? Ibaka is a far better player than DJ offensively and defensively, along with being younger.

So Ibaka isn't important to the Thunder, is that what you're saying?

[Texas Chuck]

I don't even think I'd swap Adams for Len straight up.

yeah I think in a vacuum Len should have more trade value, but Adams fits OKC better right now and that's what's really important to them. I can see tho how a Suns fan feels like he is adding value to OKC with that swap tho. I love Adams game but Len has a higher ceiling imo and could bring higher return in trade.

[bondom34]

I don't even think I'd swap Adams for Len straight up.

yeah I think in a vacuum Len should have more trade value, but Adams fits OKC better right now and that's what's really important to them. I can see tho how a Suns fan feels like he is adding value to OKC with that swap tho. I love Adams game but Len has a higher ceiling imo and could bring higher return in trade.

I'd agree, I just wouldn't for OKC. I don't mean to say Adams is the better player or prospect, just wouldn't make sense for OKC. I mean if PHX wanted to add value in Len that's fine, but Adams going back just kills the value.

[nba2k16]

Um....

Kanter is an awful defender, made worse by losing Ibaka. Put it this way, if you wouldn't trade DJ for that package, its not enough for Ibaka so that's a counter. And that's not a ton of value, 2 late firsts and a couple of OK prospects for a top defender?

And all this does is makes sure, 100 percent that Durant leaves, which at this point is unlikely, so that is honestly the worst reasoning you could use.

Take that package for Deandre or nah? If nah, then again, this isn't close, because I'd take Ibaka over DJ.

I wouldn't take that for DJ he's too important to our team but that's a bad comparison DJ > Ibaka.

Yeah i could see how that would piss off Durant. But i think the writing is on the Wall isn't it (John Wall to be exact... lol) that he's leaving to go home, hence all the praise he gave to guys like LeBron for going home or leaving to get chips.

Nope, its not. He didn't praise anyone for going home, he said it was their choice. To be honest, he's currently (or just got back from) LA, where he along with Westbrook and Ibaka organized workouts with the team and new coaches. Doesn't sound like a guy who wants out. I'd also be interested to see him say anything about wanting to go home, because I've never heard him say it. I've heard him say it is a choice some guys have made, which is a fact, but not ever that he's interested in it. Maybe he's waiting for Blake to come home to OKC, seems inevitable he's going to IMO. There's a better chance to win in OKC than LA.

But ask around NBA front offices, and you’ll find that the consensus remains that, heading into the final season of his contract, Durant is likely to remain in Oklahoma City. He’s comfortable there, he can take in a bigger paycheck there, and he actually should be able to win there.

http://theweeklychallenger.com/kevin-durant-watch-sizing-up-thunder-stars-2016-free-agency-prospects/

Were you surprised to see LaMarcus Aldridge move?

“No, I wasn’t. You could kind of tell once this whole thing started that he was trying to go somewhere else. But in those decisions, man, you’ve just got to respect the guy for making a decision that was right for him. I know a lot of fans were probably upset in Portland with the decision. But at this point of your life and your career, you’ve got to focus on you. I said this last year when Mr. James made his decision, it was pretty cool to see a guy do what he wants to do and not worry about what everybody thinks.”

When you see all the attention LaMarcus and DeAndre [Jordan] have gotten the last few days, have you thought at all about next summer and yourself?

“No I haven’t thought about it. I hear it all the time but I really am just focusing on rehab. I can’t get there unless I take care of today. That’s the way I look at it even though I hear it from every side, thinking past to next summer. But I’m not even trying to focus on that. I’m excited about our team, our new coaches and just trying to get back right.”

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/writer/ken-berger/25240123

Most league execs informally polled here at Summer League expect Durant to stay in Oklahoma City when he hits the market next summer. There are only a handful of teams that can legitimately think they're an option. The Lakers, the Mavs and the Wizards (in Durant's hometown) are in the mix, for starters. The Knicks? I mean, I guess, in theory.

As well, trading a guy to make sure he leaves would be terrible terrible awful logic, given its likely he stays.

Spoiler:

He's clearly doing this just to look like more of a jerk when he leaves.

And to OKC, Ibaka > DJ. Durant

So you're pretty dead wrong on both counts, again. And if you'd like to throw some sort of baseless speculation out there in the future, should probably try to actually be sure it makes sense.

Durant is the best player from both teams no doubt but Paul + Blake + DJ + Redick + Pierce > Durant + Westbrook + Ibaka + Kanter + Robersen. I say this because I think there will be internal issues between WB and Durant once they are both healthy. WB got real used to exclusively handling the ball and taking shots last year and it's really gonna test Durant more so than in the past. I don't think WB has gotten over those immaturity issues and it's unfortunate because he is a GREAT talent. Injury issues are always concerns... and before you say they were one offs, they've consistently had a big one each year. Just as Phoenix is consistently known for having very few injuries, OKC is known for the opposite.

Ibaka is great... he shoots the ball now and is a great rebounder and defender. But that is less valuable than a shot-blocking, DPOY winner with much more upside and less injury concern. I know you're gonna revert to free throw shooting but people tend to forget he's not the first option and he also is one of he most efficient shooters near the basket. People will throw max money at DJ but not Ibaka.

[MoneyTalks41890]

If you don't think Ibaka will get max offers you have no idea what you're talking about.

[bondom34]

I wouldn't take that for DJ he's too important to our team but that's a bad comparison DJ > Ibaka.

Yeah i could see how that would piss off Durant. But i think the writing is on the Wall isn't it (John Wall to be exact... lol) that he's leaving to go home, hence all the praise he gave to guys like LeBron for going home or leaving to get chips.

Nope, its not. He didn't praise anyone for going home, he said it was their choice. To be honest, he's currently (or just got back from) LA, where he along with Westbrook and Ibaka organized workouts with the team and new coaches. Doesn't sound like a guy who wants out. I'd also be interested to see him say anything about wanting to go home, because I've never heard him say it. I've heard him say it is a choice some guys have made, which is a fact, but not ever that he's interested in it. Maybe he's waiting for Blake to come home to OKC, seems inevitable he's going to IMO. There's a better chance to win in OKC than LA.

But ask around NBA front offices, and you’ll find that the consensus remains that, heading into the final season of his contract, Durant is likely to remain in Oklahoma City. He’s comfortable there, he can take in a bigger paycheck there, and he actually should be able to win there.

http://theweeklychallenger.com/kevin-durant-watch-sizing-up-thunder-stars-2016-free-agency-prospects/

Were you surprised to see LaMarcus Aldridge move?

“No, I wasn’t. You could kind of tell once this whole thing started that he was trying to go somewhere else. But in those decisions, man, you’ve just got to respect the guy for making a decision that was right for him. I know a lot of fans were probably upset in Portland with the decision. But at this point of your life and your career, you’ve got to focus on you. I said this last year when Mr. James made his decision, it was pretty cool to see a guy do what he wants to do and not worry about what everybody thinks.”

When you see all the attention LaMarcus and DeAndre [Jordan] have gotten the last few days, have you thought at all about next summer and yourself?

“No I haven’t thought about it. I hear it all the time but I really am just focusing on rehab. I can’t get there unless I take care of today. That’s the way I look at it even though I hear it from every side, thinking past to next summer. But I’m not even trying to focus on that. I’m excited about our team, our new coaches and just trying to get back right.”

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/writer/ken-berger/25240123

Most league execs informally polled here at Summer League expect Durant to stay in Oklahoma City when he hits the market next summer. There are only a handful of teams that can legitimately think they're an option. The Lakers, the Mavs and the Wizards (in Durant's hometown) are in the mix, for starters. The Knicks? I mean, I guess, in theory.

As well, trading a guy to make sure he leaves would be terrible terrible awful logic, given its likely he stays.

Spoiler:

He's clearly doing this just to look like more of a jerk when he leaves.

And to OKC, Ibaka > DJ. Durant

So you're pretty dead wrong on both counts, again. And if you'd like to throw some sort of baseless speculation out there in the future, should probably try to actually be sure it makes sense.

Durant is the best player from both teams no doubt but Paul + Blake + DJ + Redick + Pierce > Durant + Westbrook + Ibaka + Kanter + Robersen. I say this because I think there will be internal issues between WB and Durant once they are both healthy. WB got real used to exclusively handling the ball and taking shots last year and it's really gonna test Durant more so than in the past. I don't think WB has gotten over those immaturity issues and it's unfortunate because he is a GREAT talent. Injury issues are always concerns... and before you say they were one offs, they've consistently had a big one each year. Just as Phoenix is consistently known for having very few injuries, OKC is known for the opposite.

Ibaka is great... he shoots the ball now and is a great rebounder and defender. But that is less valuable than a shot-blocking, DPOY winner with much more upside and less injury concern. I know you're gonna revert to free throw shooting but people tend to forget he's not the first option and he also is one of he most efficient shooters near the basket. People will throw max money at DJ but not Ibaka.

So you have not even watched OKC then? OK.

You've just reiterated a point that's been disproven for the last bunch of years, each of the 2 guys excels on his own but they're better together. Each has said all they want is to win. And they've had injuries, so they're worse players? OK. Baseless speculation included as fact, check.

Disregarding that, DJ won DPOY? Because I must have missed that. And Ibaka is a better rim protector and shot blocker who's also not a 1st option. You literally made zero sense. So you actually just used a reason that's both false and applies to both players. Poor reasoning, check.

So again, wrong and wrong.

[Texas Chuck]

If you don't think Ibaka will get max offers you have no idea what you're talking about.

I stopped really paying attention to him, but if his goal was to shred the last bit of his credibility, job done.