Wolves Seeking Eric Gordon, P.J. Tucker From Wolves For Jimmy Butler

[NBARocks]

if Houston can send Melo along in the deal, it's a win for them.

[arasu]

This!

Fans overvalue stars. You still need to put five, well rested, NBA caliber players on the floor.

Bringing Jimmy in would definitely beef up their starting 5. But their bench would take a serious hit. Gordon and Tucker averaged a combined 59 minutes last season. Assuming Butler plays around 34 minutes, that would mean an additional 25 minutes pulled from the end of the HOU bench.

Gordon + Tucker > Butler + Random Scrub

That combined with the fact that Butler has averaged 67 games per season since he became a starter. So you can count on 15 games of Random Scrub + Other Random Scrub.

And that 3rd max deal would hamstring the organization for the foreseeable future.

So don't pay him. Just bring him in, win the championship, and let him walk! Who wouldn't trade a couple of replaceable bench players for a championship?

This would put them further from their goal... even for this year.

Besides, Butler needs the ball and he'd be the 3rd best creator on the team.... so he wouldn't have the ball.

I disagree. Butler can do all of the things off the ball that Tucker and Ariza did last year. He is more consistent as a shooter than Ariza, and a better defender than either of them. Tucker's game has been underappreciated, no doubt, but he is reaching that age where decline is inevitable. Gordon, though not a big iso-guy, often plays at his best with the ball in his hands, and he is expected to play forward this season, despite his size disadvantage. Butler has shown he can play in a similar way, despite his iso-ball tendencies. LeBron/Wade and LeBron/Kyrie had a similar needs-the-ball issue to work out, but they made it work. With talents like Harden and CP3 around, Butler would have less reason to play hero-ball. Basically Butler can replace all three skill-sets of Gordon, Ariza, and Tucker when called upon, but more importantly, when the inevitable Chris Paul injury shows up, Harden will have another guy who can excel with the ball and carry the team for stretches.

This would be a no-brainer from the Rockets' side. They would still need to fill out the depth with shooters and multi-position wings, but considering D'Antoni's ability to take on reclamation projects, I don't see that as an impossible task. They already have Green, Ennis, and Knight. A trade of Knight + a draft pick for Bazemore would easily shore up some more 2-way depth. The options to fill out complimentary pieces are definitely easier to find than the option to bring in another star.

The only real question would be, why would the Wolves do this?

[arasu]

That would be a rental only for HOU because Butler is looking for max next summer, something HOU can't offer.

Nope. There is no hard cap in the NBA. If they trade for Butler, they can offer him more than any other team to keep him long term. Of course the luxury tax would be ridiculous.

[Fresh360Waves]

Had Houston re-signed Mbah a Moute, then I'd say for them to go for it. But if they trade away Tucker, their defense will really fall off. It'll probably fall off a bit this season anyways since Ariza and Mbah a Moute are gone, but yeah tough decision in regards to sacrificing depth by trading for Butler or not going after Butler and keeping their depth with Gordon and Tucker. But then again Houston was one game away from beating GS with pretty much the same team they have now so.... *shrugs*

[TimRobbins]

There is no way this is true. Butler puts Houston on par with the Warriors. PJ Tucker and Gordon? The Rockets should take it and run.

[Pickled Prunes]

So don't pay him. Just bring him in, win the championship, and let him walk! Who wouldn't trade a couple of replaceable bench players for a championship?

This would put them further from their goal... even for this year.

Besides, Butler needs the ball and he'd be the 3rd best creator on the team.... so he wouldn't have the ball.

I disagree. Butler can do all of the things off the ball that Tucker and Ariza did last year. He is more consistent as a shooter than Ariza, and a better defender than either of them. Tucker's game has been underappreciated, no doubt, but he is reaching that age where decline is inevitable. Gordon, though not a big iso-guy, often plays at his best with the ball in his hands, and he is expected to play forward this season, despite his size disadvantage. Butler has shown he can play in a similar way, despite his iso-ball tendencies. LeBron/Wade and LeBron/Kyrie had a similar needs-the-ball issue to work out, but they made it work. With talents like Harden and CP3 around, Butler would have less reason to play hero-ball. Basically Butler can replace all three skill-sets of Gordon, Ariza, and Tucker when called upon, but more importantly, when the inevitable Chris Paul injury shows up, Harden will have another guy who can excel with the ball and carry the team for stretches.

This would be a no-brainer from the Rockets' side. They would still need to fill out the depth with shooters and multi-position wings, but considering D'Antoni's ability to take on reclamation projects, I don't see that as an impossible task. They already have Green, Ennis, and Knight. A trade of Knight + a draft pick for Bazemore would easily shore up some more 2-way depth. The options to fill out complimentary pieces are definitely easier to find than the option to bring in another star.

The only real question would be, why would the Wolves do this?

You can disagree... but he can't play two positions at once.... Gordon and Tucker can.

[arasu]

This would put them further from their goal... even for this year.

Besides, Butler needs the ball and he'd be the 3rd best creator on the team.... so he wouldn't have the ball.

I disagree. Butler can do all of the things off the ball that Tucker and Ariza did last year. He is more consistent as a shooter than Ariza, and a better defender than either of them. Tucker's game has been underappreciated, no doubt, but he is reaching that age where decline is inevitable. Gordon, though not a big iso-guy, often plays at his best with the ball in his hands, and he is expected to play forward this season, despite his size disadvantage. Butler has shown he can play in a similar way, despite his iso-ball tendencies. LeBron/Wade and LeBron/Kyrie had a similar needs-the-ball issue to work out, but they made it work. With talents like Harden and CP3 around, Butler would have less reason to play hero-ball. Basically Butler can replace all three skill-sets of Gordon, Ariza, and Tucker when called upon, but more importantly, when the inevitable Chris Paul injury shows up, Harden will have another guy who can excel with the ball and carry the team for stretches.

This would be a no-brainer from the Rockets' side. They would still need to fill out the depth with shooters and multi-position wings, but considering D'Antoni's ability to take on reclamation projects, I don't see that as an impossible task. They already have Green, Ennis, and Knight. A trade of Knight + a draft pick for Bazemore would easily shore up some more 2-way depth. The options to fill out complimentary pieces are definitely easier to find than the option to bring in another star.

The only real question would be, why would the Wolves do this?

You can disagree... but he can't play two positions at once.... Gordon and Tucker can.

A lot of folks are pretty high on the potential of James Ennis to fit well with this offense. A Butler/Ennis tandem could be significantly better than the Gordon/Tucker combo would be.

[jason bourne]

Gordon and Tucker for Butler is a fair deal for both sides. Butler is a huge upgrade on Gordon.

I'm guessing the people bashing this deal are GS fans who would need to be a little more afraid, (but still only a little more), or Houston fans who would love to have Butler, but are only trying to give up Gordon to get him.

It's not a good trade for the T-Wolves except for the Rox. Better deal with the Heat in JRich, Bam, JJ and first rnd pick.

[Pickled Prunes]

I disagree. Butler can do all of the things off the ball that Tucker and Ariza did last year. He is more consistent as a shooter than Ariza, and a better defender than either of them. Tucker's game has been underappreciated, no doubt, but he is reaching that age where decline is inevitable. Gordon, though not a big iso-guy, often plays at his best with the ball in his hands, and he is expected to play forward this season, despite his size disadvantage. Butler has shown he can play in a similar way, despite his iso-ball tendencies. LeBron/Wade and LeBron/Kyrie had a similar needs-the-ball issue to work out, but they made it work. With talents like Harden and CP3 around, Butler would have less reason to play hero-ball. Basically Butler can replace all three skill-sets of Gordon, Ariza, and Tucker when called upon, but more importantly, when the inevitable Chris Paul injury shows up, Harden will have another guy who can excel with the ball and carry the team for stretches.

This would be a no-brainer from the Rockets' side. They would still need to fill out the depth with shooters and multi-position wings, but considering D'Antoni's ability to take on reclamation projects, I don't see that as an impossible task. They already have Green, Ennis, and Knight. A trade of Knight + a draft pick for Bazemore would easily shore up some more 2-way depth. The options to fill out complimentary pieces are definitely easier to find than the option to bring in another star.

The only real question would be, why would the Wolves do this?

You can disagree... but he can't play two positions at once.... Gordon and Tucker can.

A lot of folks are pretty high on the potential of James Ennis to fit well with this offense. A Butler/Ennis tandem could be significantly better than the Gordon/Tucker combo would be.

Once again, it's not Gordon/Tucker vs. Butler/Ennis... it's Gordon/Tucker/Ennis vs. Butler/Ennis.

The biggest knock on HOU is their depth. This would exacerbate the issue.

[Temuhjan]

if Houston can send Melo along in the deal, it's a win for them.

Melo Melo Melo

[arasu]

You can disagree... but he can't play two positions at once.... Gordon and Tucker can.

A lot of folks are pretty high on the potential of James Ennis to fit well with this offense. A Butler/Ennis tandem could be significantly better than the Gordon/Tucker combo would be.

Once again, it's not Gordon/Tucker vs. Butler/Ennis... it's Gordon/Tucker/Ennis vs. Butler/Ennis.

The biggest knock on HOU is their depth. This would exacerbate the issue.

The biggest issue with Houston has been their ability to put together a best 5 man lineup that can beat the Warriors best lineup and the ability to overcome an injury to Paul. Butler gives them a second star should Paul go down, and he makes their best 5 man lineup better. Brandon Knight has been compared to Gordon, and MCW has shown signs that he will fit in perfectly with the Rockets at both ends of the floor. Those guys give them depth at their most vulnerable position. One big question coming into this season is the loss of defensive players, but by adding those guards and Ennis, it puts their switching D into a good place, and Butler would only help that much more. Adding solid low-cost role players via free agency is relatively easy for a contender, easy enough to round out any minor depth issue that would come from reducing their depth by just one player.

PG-CP3/MCW
SG-Harden/Knight
SF-Butler/Green
PF-Ennis/Melo/Clark
C-Capela/Chriss/Nene

Knight, Green, Melo, and Chriss are all two-position players, adding versatility to what looks like a fairly deep bench.

[NoStatsGuy]

Dudes acting like luc was playin ball in the Playoffs

[SFrush]

Don't forget Ariza who will get bought out and be back for the playoffs.

Yeah that's not going to happen.

Yup. NBA rules won't allow Ariza to return to Houston for one year.

That doesn't apply to Houston because he left as a free agent. But that's beside the point. Ariza won't be a buyout candidate because I'm certain playoff caliber teams will be interested in acquiring him before the trade deadline. Since he's only on a one year deal that makes him way more attractive to a playoff team that needs another 3&D player.

[arasu]

.

[BallerTalk]

Yeah that's not going to happen.

Yup. NBA rules won't allow Ariza to return to Houston for one year.

That doesn't apply to Houston because he left as a free agent. But that's beside the point. Ariza won't be a buyout candidate because I'm certain playoff caliber teams will be interested in acquiring him before the trade deadline. Since he's only on a one year deal that makes him way more attractive to a playoff team that needs another 3&D player.

You are correct that there is no restriction on a possible return to Houston.

However, the problem with your suggestion that good teams will line up to trade for Ariza if he's available is that any interested team would have to sacrifice $15M in assets to trade for him.
How many playoff teams would be willing, capable, or interested in doing that?

[Kobe System]

CP3 vs Steph
Harden vs Klay
Butler vs KD
Melo vs Draymond
Capela vs Boogie

Houston would be STUPID not to do this trade. F*ck depth. You can sign Crawford/Young FFS. Most servicable vets will be bought out along the way.

[Pickled Prunes]

A lot of folks are pretty high on the potential of James Ennis to fit well with this offense. A Butler/Ennis tandem could be significantly better than the Gordon/Tucker combo would be.

Once again, it's not Gordon/Tucker vs. Butler/Ennis... it's Gordon/Tucker/Ennis vs. Butler/Ennis.

The biggest knock on HOU is their depth. This would exacerbate the issue.

The biggest issue with Houston has been their ability to put together a best 5 man lineup that can beat the Warriors best lineup and the ability to overcome an injury to Paul. Butler gives them a second star should Paul go down, and he makes their best 5 man lineup better. Brandon Knight has been compared to Gordon, and MCW has shown signs that he will fit in perfectly with the Rockets at both ends of the floor. Those guys give them depth at their most vulnerable position. One big question coming into this season is the loss of defensive players, but by adding those guards and Ennis, it puts their switching D into a good place, and Butler would only help that much more. Adding solid low-cost role players via free agency is relatively easy for a contender, easy enough to round out any minor depth issue that would come from reducing their depth by just one player.

PG-CP3/MCW
SG-Harden/Knight
SF-Butler/Green
PF-Ennis/Melo/Clark
C-Capela/Chriss/Nene

Knight, Green, Melo, and Chriss are all two-position players, adding versatility to what looks like a fairly deep bench.

Nobody is going to put a better lineup on the floor than GSW. HOU made a run last season because they could keep an all-NBA playmaker on the floor at all times.... and they were deeper than GSW. At least three of the players you mention should only see garbage time in the playoffs.

And Jimmy's stats look real good, but he missed all of his games against GSW last season. He also went 0-3 vs. HOU, shooting a combined 17-42 (%40). He is certainly no Goliath killer.

Butler has averaged less than 67 games per season since he became a starter. He is less durable than CP3. Tucker played 82 and Gordon played 69... 10 more than Butler. In this case, two is better than one.

[theman]

Had Houston re-signed Mbah a Moute, then I'd say for them to go for it. But if they trade away Tucker, their defense will really fall off. It'll probably fall off a bit this season anyways since Ariza and Mbah a Moute are gone, but yeah tough decision in regards to sacrificing depth by trading for Butler or not going after Butler and keeping their depth with Gordon and Tucker. But then again Houston was one game away from beating GS with pretty much the same team they have now so.... *shrugs*

Butler is a better defender than any of those guys.

This should be a no brainer for Houston. Paul, Harden, Butler, Anthony and Capela can give GSW a run for their money.

[SFrush]

Yup. NBA rules won't allow Ariza to return to Houston for one year.

That doesn't apply to Houston because he left as a free agent. But that's beside the point. Ariza won't be a buyout candidate because I'm certain playoff caliber teams will be interested in acquiring him before the trade deadline. Since he's only on a one year deal that makes him way more attractive to a playoff team that needs another 3&D player.

You are correct that there is no restriction on a possible return to Houston.

However, the problem with your suggestion that good teams will line up to trade for Ariza if he's available is that any interested team would have to sacrifice $15M in assets to trade for him.
How many playoff teams would be willing, capable, or interested in doing that?

By the trade deadline it will be around 7-8 mil left on that contract and yes a playoff team would give up assets. Just off the top of my head Philly would be a great fit for Ariza.

[BallerTalk]

That doesn't apply to Houston because he left as a free agent. But that's beside the point. Ariza won't be a buyout candidate because I'm certain playoff caliber teams will be interested in acquiring him before the trade deadline. Since he's only on a one year deal that makes him way more attractive to a playoff team that needs another 3&D player.

You are correct that there is no restriction on a possible return to Houston.

However, the problem with your suggestion that good teams will line up to trade for Ariza if he's available is that any interested team would have to sacrifice $15M in assets to trade for him.
How many playoff teams would be willing, capable, or interested in doing that?

By the trade deadline it will be around 7-8 mil left on that contract and yes a playoff team would give up assets. Just off the top of my head Philly would be a great fit for Ariza.

That's not really how it works. They would still have to match the whole contract value.
The prorated value is only meaningful regarding what the receiving team would actually pay to Ariza for the remainder of the season.

Furthermore, a half-season rental of a guy like Ariza is likely something that would only be of interest to teams that believe they have a legitimate shot at going all the way and he could help put them over the top.
That's likely an extremely short list. It gets even shorter when you consider which of those few teams would have assets they are willing to ship out for an Ariza rental.

I agree he would probably fit well with the Sixers but who would Philly trade for Ariza?
Wilson Chandler whom they just acquired? Because you know they're not giving up Covington or Redick.
They would probably have to add a pick to convince Phoenix to take someone like Bayless.

Trading Ariza to a contender on that contract is not as easy as you seem to think. In all likelihood he just plays the season out with Phoenix.
Unless of course things go worse than expected and the Suns decide to do him the favor of a buyout.
If that happened, would it surprise you at all if Houston was at the top of his list of preferred destinations?