slick_watts wrote:Pillendreher wrote: It matters because the refereeing has a massive impact on the NBA. If they don't call the game by the book and enforce the rules consistently and evenly without accounting for player xy being a star or player wz being a rookie, etc., then they should just go ahead and don't enforce them at all.
i've been a fan of the nba since 1991. this whining like this is way older than even that. people were saying it about michael jordan. people were saying it about magic. and kareem before him. bob lanier. adrian dantley. star players and youngsters have been called differently since the 50's and 60's. you could argue the thunder's dominant stretch between 2011-2016 could be in part thanks to this kind of refereeing. the thunder led the league in FTr in 2012 when they made the finals. i don't recall much griping about it then.
We weren't even best friends back then.
slick_watts wrote:Pillendreher wrote:As soon as we leave the consistent enforcement of rules behind us, everybody loses.
so what do we want? we don't want an unwritten rule that certain stars get more benefit of the doubt but i presume last night we want the refs to enforce an unwritten rules that you don't foul out paul george or russell westbrook on offensive fouls? we don't want any unwritten rules? meaning every moving screen steven adams sets is called?
Yes, ideally. That's the way rules work. Ideally it's not up to the one enforcing them at all. It's not always as easy because sometimes there's a need for certain kind of leeway when enforcing rules, but for the most part, yes, rules need to be enforced to the letter of the wall.
slick_watts wrote:to me this is all a red herring. refereeing isn't different now than it has ever been. it's just more noticeable mainly due to social media and hd cameras everywhere and whatnot.
That doesn't justify it. Hell, it's all the more reason to act upon it.
slick_watts wrote:the thunder are playing a high risk defensive style where they chase for steals, reach, and generally play a 'dare the ref to call it' game like the seahawks used to do in the nfl. when you constantly reach in like noel or george or westbrook sometimes you're going to get a lot of fouls. when you are chasing steals and turnovers so aggressively.. sometimes you're going to get a lot of fouls.
That's a fair point in this discussion.
slick_watts wrote:but even so, the thunder are virtually even on the season with their opposition on personal fouls. so i don't see the complaint.
That doesn't tell us anything about the quality of the refereeing. For all we know, the Thunder are getting away with 100 fouls a game while the opposing team gets away with 50. Or the other way around. There's no way to tell until we look at every possession. All I'm doing is to voice my critisicm after games that I felt were obvious.
slick_watts wrote:what you really want is a game called to the thunder's current strengths. one where they can reach and get their steals and not have to worry so much about refs calling fouls.
You sneaky bastard, you. Don't put words in my mouth to make your argument. It's beneath you.
slick_watts wrote:"let them play" has escaped you more than once during thunder games.
Another strawman. You damn well know that "let them play" doesn't mean "Let them foul". It means that the refs are calling all sorts of contact in a way they normally don't and that it's interfering with the flow of the game. I skip FTs when watching the replay: There have been games where I couldn't put down the remote because of all the FT stoppages. That's when the game becomes unwatchable. If you don't call it by the book, at least do that with some sort of cosistency. In that case, it really evens out at least.
slick_watts wrote:you and others don't like james harden or other super high FTr wings because the thunder don't have any of those anymore.
I don't like James Harden because he's a flopper and regularly fouls defenders (when he hooks defenders and the refs claim they hooked him) only to get rewarded with FTs for it.
slick_watts wrote:when the thunder had 2 of them at a time (harden / durant and then martin / durant), the ref complaint du jour was opponents jostling them around too much off the ball without getting fouls called-- the same thing you want now. interesting, huh.
No, not at all. First of all: What does this have to do with the discussion? Secondly: That complaint was valid as well. Tony Allen "defended" Durant by simply fouling him all possession long. Beverly did the same with George last night. We did it to Curry in the 2016 WCF. That doesn't make it right and they should call that. If you are not allowed to hold players like that, you should not be able to get away with it. If we get away with it, it just means that teams can do the same to our players (unless the refs suddenly change their mind). That's still illegal.
slick_watts wrote:Pillendreher wrote:Paul George is right when he says that the refs should be held to the standard of being professionals. There have been way too many wrong calls and non-calls all over the league these last few seasons.
i think paul george and russell westbrook should focus more on being professionals themselves when they feel they did not get the call they want.
Do you have an actual counter?
slick_watts wrote:Pillendreher wrote:What do you happens when they pull this **** in a game 6 or 7 in the Playoffs? You can't just go "Oh sure, that was the wrong call, but back in November, they missed a travel against Charlotte, so now we're square".
bad calls have happened in playoff games in all sports. it is part of the 'luck' factor of winning and losing. the trick is to try to avoid situations where you are relying on such a thing. had paul george or russell westbrook not stupidly racked up 5 fouls at the time they were called for their 6th? we might be talking about something different. had the green bay packers closed out the 49ers in 1998 instead of letting them hang in the game, then the botched fumble call on jerry rice wouldn't have mattered and terrell owens doesn't make the catch. if the baltimore orioles didn't blow a save in the 1996 ALDS game against the yankees, the missed fan interference call on the derek jeter home rum in game 1 wouldn't have mattered.
the only solution is to have robots call games.
The solution is to get better refs. Mistakes happen. But at a certain point, we're past mistakes and have reached the point of incompetence. We're not talking about getting things right you can't even see properly in slowmotion on high resolution video. I'm talking about the more obvious stuff and the general lack of consistency.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
