When Did the Modern Era Start?

[Metallikid]

This isn't even up for debate I'm pretty sure Elias Sports Bureau considers the ABA-NBA Merger the definitive starting point for modern basketball.

[cupcakesnake]

when NBA player learned how to dribble.

You mean when the refs stopped calling carrying/palming violations?

when NBA player learned how to dribble.

So from the beginning of the NBA, right?

No, I mean when tons of players started being able to dribble with both hands and attack defenses with the dribble instead of the pass. Even in the Jordan era, most guys had pretty weak handles, which is why the ever dominant strategy was: pass the ball into the post. Watch video of John Stockton and Magic Johnson and watch their dribbling skills. Even a backup point guard in the NBA now has way better handles. Post-Jordan you had dozens of guys who could credibly attack off the dribble (Marbury, Stackhouse, Iverson, Steve Francis, Baron Davis). These guys seemed so good, that for a few years, teams handed them the keys but with rare exception it didn't go so well. Bigs like Duncan, Shaq and KG still dominated, but now some wings were dribbling like guards (Kobe, Tmac), and point guards with smarts were collapsing defenses and creating efficient offense (Nash, Billups). But with a generation now watching and1 and iverson, everyone was coming in with handles. Now you don't need to give it to a big. Now you can puncture defenses and open up juicier offense: open 3s and layups. Fast forward a generation of NBA talent and you have guys who can dribble and shoot at a never before seen level and offense are deadly. Curry sped up his release and taught people how to shoot off the dribble from ANYWHERE. Harden can completely ruin a defense with the dribble and the shot.

People say it was a shooting revolution, but guys have been good shooters since the 80s. The ability to dribble changed how an offense can attack and reasonably get those shots in the first place.

[70sFan]

when NBA player learned how to dribble.

You mean when the refs stopped calling carrying/palming violations?

when NBA player learned how to dribble.

So from the beginning of the NBA, right?

No, I mean when tons of players started being able to dribble with both hands and attack defenses with the dribble instead of the pass. Even in the Jordan era, most guys had pretty weak handles, which is why the ever dominant strategy was: pass the ball into the post. Watch video of John Stockton and Magic Johnson and watch their dribbling skills. Even a backup point guard in the NBA now has way better handles. Post-Jordan you had dozens of guys who could credibly attack off the dribble (Marbury, Stackhouse, Iverson, Steve Francis, Baron Davis). These guys seemed so good, that for a few years, teams handed them the keys but with rare exception it didn't go so well. Bigs like Duncan, Shaq and KG still dominated, but now some wings were dribbling like guards (Kobe, Tmac), and point guards with smarts were collapsing defenses and creating efficient offense (Nash, Billups). But with a generation now watching and1 and iverson, everyone was coming in with handles. Now you don't need to give it to a big. Now you can puncture defenses and open up juicier offense: open 3s and layups. Fast forward a generation of NBA talent and you have guys who can dribble and shoot at a never before seen level and offense are deadly. Curry sped up his release and taught people how to shoot off the dribble from ANYWHERE. Harden can completely ruin a defense with the dribble and the shot.

People say it was a shooting revolution, but guys have been good shooters since the 80s. The ability to dribble changed how an offense can attack and reasonably get those shots in the first place.

It helps when you can carry the ball on every possession. It was illegal back then though, so they couldn't do things guys like Harden does today.

If you wish, I can show you tons of examples of carrying calls from 1960s and 1970s that looks like regular dribble in 2010s.

[Goner]

I've made this argument several times in the GB, but here it is again. The modern era began when Dirk's Mavs swept the LA Lakers en route to an NBA championship. The culture of basketball, at the time, shaped the expectations of the league such that the Lakers were favorites to make the finals, if not win it all. This was a result of them having two dominant 7 footers in Bynum and Gasol. On paper, at the time, this combination (along with Kobe) seemed formidable. This is because the broad culture of basketball was still carried over from the pre-3pt era. Teams were expected to have a dominant big man to succeed, in the same way, that Wilt, Kareem, and the other great big men carried the teams. After this season the paradigm shifted. Coaches knew they could simply go small and run a plodding big to score easy fast-break baskets, thereby negating the advantage of their size.

Before this, there were changes, for sure, but they were all changes within the already crystallized basketball culture, and things were interpreted with respect to how they performed against dominant big men. The 3ball era exploded after this paradigm shift, even though it had been steadily increasing before that, indicating that it was the shift in the size of the personnel that facilitated its rise to prominence.

[jehosafats]

When NBA added shotclock for me, because it is the only fundamental change in this sport that made it completely different than before. Three point line effect isn't close to that.

Magic and Bird were very popular back then, but they didn't improve the league. Two players don't have such a huge impact on the game, it's more about 1980s TV and marketing explosion.

Keep in mind that I don't call pre-shotclock players bad or archaic, they were still very good. The sport they played in was just too different from basketball we know today.

I love how people call 1970s "weak era" or "trash basketball" and then call Magic or Bird ATGs who played in modern era. 1970s and 1980s are identical in terms of playing style, the only difference is that illegal d rules and softening handchecking made it easier to score. Three point line wasn't important for majority of decade. Not to mention that Magic and Bird competed against mostly 1970s stars like Moses, Julius, Kareem, Marques, Williams and many, many others.

That's why I laugh when people say that Magic/Bird/Jordan are "modern" but guys like Wilt, Russell, West or even Kareem wouldn't find a job in "modern" NBA. There is bigger gap between Jordan's retirement and 2019 than between West's retirement and Jordan's rookie year.

No doubt sped the game up. To think, in the early days, they had a jump ball following EVERY shot made.

[Bornstellar]

The merger probably makes the most sense or Magic/Bird era. But to me it's pre and post MJ when I think of NBA eras

[Pennebaker]

I've made this argument several times in the GB, but here it is again. The modern era began when Dirk's Mavs swept the LA Lakers en route to an NBA championship. The culture of basketball, at the time, shaped the expectations of the league such that the Lakers were favorites to make the finals, if not win it all. This was a result of them having two dominant 7 footers in Bynum and Gasol. On paper, at the time, this combination (along with Kobe) seemed formidable. This is because the broad culture of basketball was still carried over from the pre-3pt era. Teams were expected to have a dominant big man to succeed, in the same way, that Wilt, Kareem, and the other great big men carried the teams. After this season the paradigm shifted. Coaches knew they could simply go small and run a plodding big to score easy fast-break baskets, thereby negating the advantage of their size.

Before this, there were changes, for sure, but they were all changes within the already crystallized basketball culture, and things were interpreted with respect to how they performed against dominant big men. The 3ball era exploded after this paradigm shift, even though it had been steadily increasing before that, indicating that it was the shift in the size of the personnel that facilitated its rise to prominence.

There was no paradigm shift, though. That Dallas team had size. Dirk himself is a dominant 7 footer, and they had Tyson Chandler and Haywood and Mahinmi. That was a big team.

One of the reasons they beat Miami was because the Heat didnt have a center. They were starting 6'9 Joel Anthony at center.

[Jakay]

I don't even know if I think it's the mark of a "modern era", but in a way, the defensive schemes that Riley used in NY and then later in Miami really helped turn the game into what it is now. Before that, defence was pretty much mostly 1:1. The allowance of soft zones really took that mindset to the next level and now it's just a given that the defensive identity of a team is a cohesive switching communicating whole. That was not the case in the 80s and early 90s.

[Nazrmohamed]

I picked the Warriors not specifically because of the Warriors but rather I feel like that was the start of the league switching to a model where your PG could and should in some cases be your primary scorer, and the result was winning basketball. There have always been scoring PGs but they were sorta sprinkled thin throughout the league and considered players who'd never win. Chris Paul used to score too much to win, now he passes too much. Go figure.

[dc]

Some good arguments.

I would argue that the CURRENT modern age started in 2007-2008, when Tom Thibadeau's defense with the Celtics was the catalyst for a dominant 67 win Celtics team.

He was the first guy to figure out how to effectively used zone defense in the NBA. Up to that point, zone defenses had been allowed for several years, but nobody had figured out how to use them. Teams only knew how to throw a Syracuse like zone every now and then just as a change of pace, but it was hardly a long term strategy.

The offensive counter to Thibs' new defensive strategies (along with analytics) is what sparked the 3 point shooting "stretch the defense" type shooting and ball movement offense that we see today.

[mudsak]

To me it's been stages. A lot of you are saying 3pt line, but there has been so much drastic change in the past 20 years. To me "modern era" is much more recent.

I'm going to say 2 things have drastically effected how the game is played in the past 20 years or so.

1. Analytics have changed the approach to the game significantly.... that effects EVERYTHING from system of play, down to how players are scouted, and why types of players teams are scouting/drafting.

2. I'm going to give some credit to Steph Curry himself. I feel he really pushed the envelope with what was possible with the 3pt shot. I think he shifted the mindset of everyone who strives to play the game. He was a generational game changer imo.

[LKN]

I don't even know if I think it's the mark of a "modern era", but in a way, the defensive schemes that Riley used in NY and then later in Miami really helped turn the game into what it is now. Before that, defence was pretty much mostly 1:1. The allowance of soft zones really took that mindset to the next level and now it's just a given that the defensive identity of a team is a cohesive switching communicating whole. That was not the case in the 80s and early 90s.

The 2nd three-peat Bulls come to mind also. They were able to do a lot of switching due to their crazy length on the perimeter. They also played small ball with Rodman at center before small ball was a thing

[jehosafats]

when NBA player learned how to dribble.

You mean when the refs stopped calling carrying/palming violations?

when NBA player learned how to dribble.

So from the beginning of the NBA, right?

No, I mean when tons of players started being able to dribble with both hands and attack defenses with the dribble instead of the pass. Even in the Jordan era, most guys had pretty weak handles, which is why the ever dominant strategy was: pass the ball into the post. Watch video of John Stockton and Magic Johnson and watch their dribbling skills. Even a backup point guard in the NBA now has way better handles. Post-Jordan you had dozens of guys who could credibly attack off the dribble (Marbury, Stackhouse, Iverson, Steve Francis, Baron Davis). These guys seemed so good, that for a few years, teams handed them the keys but with rare exception it didn't go so well. Bigs like Duncan, Shaq and KG still dominated, but now some wings were dribbling like guards (Kobe, Tmac), and point guards with smarts were collapsing defenses and creating efficient offense (Nash, Billups). But with a generation now watching and1 and iverson, everyone was coming in with handles. Now you don't need to give it to a big. Now you can puncture defenses and open up juicier offense: open 3s and layups. Fast forward a generation of NBA talent and you have guys who can dribble and shoot at a never before seen level and offense are deadly. Curry sped up his release and taught people how to shoot off the dribble from ANYWHERE. Harden can completely ruin a defense with the dribble and the shot.

People say it was a shooting revolution, but guys have been good shooters since the 80s. The ability to dribble changed how an offense can attack and reasonably get those shots in the first place.

Preach. You also had Kevin Johnson breaking down unsuspecting bigs and wings off the dribble.

[cupcakesnake]

You mean when the refs stopped calling carrying/palming violations?

So from the beginning of the NBA, right?

No, I mean when tons of players started being able to dribble with both hands and attack defenses with the dribble instead of the pass. Even in the Jordan era, most guys had pretty weak handles, which is why the ever dominant strategy was: pass the ball into the post. Watch video of John Stockton and Magic Johnson and watch their dribbling skills. Even a backup point guard in the NBA now has way better handles. Post-Jordan you had dozens of guys who could credibly attack off the dribble (Marbury, Stackhouse, Iverson, Steve Francis, Baron Davis). These guys seemed so good, that for a few years, teams handed them the keys but with rare exception it didn't go so well. Bigs like Duncan, Shaq and KG still dominated, but now some wings were dribbling like guards (Kobe, Tmac), and point guards with smarts were collapsing defenses and creating efficient offense (Nash, Billups). But with a generation now watching and1 and iverson, everyone was coming in with handles. Now you don't need to give it to a big. Now you can puncture defenses and open up juicier offense: open 3s and layups. Fast forward a generation of NBA talent and you have guys who can dribble and shoot at a never before seen level and offense are deadly. Curry sped up his release and taught people how to shoot off the dribble from ANYWHERE. Harden can completely ruin a defense with the dribble and the shot.

People say it was a shooting revolution, but guys have been good shooters since the 80s. The ability to dribble changed how an offense can attack and reasonably get those shots in the first place.

It helps when you can carry the ball on every possession. It was illegal back then though, so they couldn't do things guys like Harden does today.

If you wish, I can show you tons of examples of carrying calls from 1960s and 1970s that looks like regular dribble in 2010s.

I won't argue against that. Howerver, if you think that's the main or only difference between dribbling in the 60s and dribbling now....

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

The poll needs an "all of the above" a option.

3pt line, so 79-80

But the coaches hated the 3 and the players did not shoot many 3s until later.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

No, I mean when tons of players started being able to dribble with both hands and attack defenses with the dribble instead of the pass. Even in the Jordan era, most guys had pretty weak handles, which is why the ever dominant strategy was: pass the ball into the post. Watch video of John Stockton and Magic Johnson and watch their dribbling skills. Even a backup point guard in the NBA now has way better handles. Post-Jordan you had dozens of guys who could credibly attack off the dribble (Marbury, Stackhouse, Iverson, Steve Francis, Baron Davis). These guys seemed so good, that for a few years, teams handed them the keys but with rare exception it didn't go so well. Bigs like Duncan, Shaq and KG still dominated, but now some wings were dribbling like guards (Kobe, Tmac), and point guards with smarts were collapsing defenses and creating efficient offense (Nash, Billups). But with a generation now watching and1 and iverson, everyone was coming in with handles. Now you don't need to give it to a big. Now you can puncture defenses and open up juicier offense: open 3s and layups. Fast forward a generation of NBA talent and you have guys who can dribble and shoot at a never before seen level and offense are deadly. Curry sped up his release and taught people how to shoot off the dribble from ANYWHERE. Harden can completely ruin a defense with the dribble and the shot.

People say it was a shooting revolution, but guys have been good shooters since the 80s. The ability to dribble changed how an offense can attack and reasonably get those shots in the first place.

It helps when you can carry the ball on every possession. It was illegal back then though, so they couldn't do things guys like Harden does today.

If you wish, I can show you tons of examples of carrying calls from 1960s and 1970s that looks like regular dribble in 2010s.

I won't argue against that. Howerver, if you think that's the main or only difference between dribbling in the 60s and dribbling now....

Changes in how the refs call the game accounts for 70% of the changes in dribbling since 1960.

Better play ground skills did improve dribbling but a lot of the "improved dribbling" is not being afraid of the refs making a call on the playground skills.

0f the 30% change in dribbling that is not about how the refs make calls, 20% happened between 1960 and 1975, and 10% happened since 1975.

James Worthy stuck out to me in the mid 1980s because he was pushing the limits on gather steps before I had ever heard of gather steps. I don't remember when the league flat out lied and declared that gather steps had always been legal. The 1980s players other than Worthy did not play like they thought gather steps were legal. 1980s players usually took their first dribble soon after touching a pass and their last dribble soon before getting a shot up. LeBron expanded on what Worthy was doing that did already not look right to me. Longer legs like Giannis has makes the missing dribble look worse because Giannis can cover so much ground with so few steps. I am always wanting Giannis and LeBron to dribble one more time on drives so that they look like basketball players rather than running backs.

In 1975 Nate Archibald and others were already doing everything that was legal at that time that modern players do with a dribble.

I prefer 1980s dribbling rules because i started watching the NBA in the late 1970s. 1960s rules seem too strict to me because they incentivise the players to use a dribbling style that looks choppy and awkward to me. Recent rules make me feel like players are breaking the rules.

By rules I mean how the refs callthe game not the actual rules. I think the refs are ignoring the actual rules but the actual rules always struck me as being intentionally imprecise.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

I don't even know if I think it's the mark of a "modern era", but in a way, the defensive schemes that Riley used in NY and then later in Miami really helped turn the game into what it is now. Before that, defence was pretty much mostly 1:1. The allowance of soft zones really took that mindset to the next level and now it's just a given that the defensive identity of a team is a cohesive switching communicating whole. That was not the case in the 80s and early 90s.

Were you from the 1980s western conference?

In Boston in the 1980s we had the attitude that the Western conference teams played weak defense. In retrospect I realize that a big part of the Western conference bad defense is that they were not using defensive schemes that relied appon the refs not calling illegal defenses.

The early 1980s Celtics, 76ers and Bucks and to a lesser degree other teams were routinely sagging and hedging to the point of being in uncalled illegal defenses. Fratellos mid 1980s Hawks and the Bad Boy Pistons also played that way. These team also were increasing the force used on hand checks and were intentionally fouling open layups. Then the Bad Boy Pistons took the rough stuff a level that I thought was too much. I think the Riley Knicks went beyond what the Pistons did. Stern might have cracked down sooner on the 1990s emulation of the Bad Boy Pistons if he was not a Knick fan and if the Riley Knicks were not the utilizing that style.

Have a look at the 1982 76ers vs Celtics conference finals tell me me if that isn't some sort of sagging switching zone like man to man defense.

[Biff]

When NBA added shotclock for me, because it is the only fundamental change in this sport that made it completely different than before. Three point line effect isn't close to that.

Magic and Bird were very popular back then, but they didn't improve the league. Two players don't have such a huge impact on the game, it's more about 1980s TV and marketing explosion.

Keep in mind that I don't call pre-shotclock players bad or archaic, they were still very good. The sport they played in was just too different from basketball we know today.

I love how people call 1970s "weak era" or "trash basketball" and then call Magic or Bird ATGs who played in modern era. 1970s and 1980s are identical in terms of playing style, the only difference is that illegal d rules and softening handchecking made it easier to score. Three point line wasn't important for majority of decade. Not to mention that Magic and Bird competed against mostly 1970s stars like Moses, Julius, Kareem, Marques, Williams and many, many others.

That's why I laugh when people say that Magic/Bird/Jordan are "modern" but guys like Wilt, Russell, West or even Kareem wouldn't find a job in "modern" NBA. There is bigger gap between Jordan's retirement and 2019 than between West's retirement and Jordan's rookie year.

It's a weak era because the talent was split between 2 leagues. And I doubt very much that anybody says Wilt, Russell, West or Kareem couldn't play in today's game. I have seen a lot of silly things said here but I don't think I've ever seen that. I've made arguments that their stats would go way down due to a much slower pace and the way the game is played today just doesn't allow players to play the kind of minutes stars played in back then. I think I've taken one of the stronger stances against mythologizing players from the 60's and early 70's due to people pointing at stats as proof without considering context.

[Antinomy]

Are we talking about the Modern Era or the Modern-Modern Era?

The Modern era started with the 3 point line to me. How could one possibly watch the game before the 3 point was integrated & think that it resembled it the years afterwards.

The NBA began around 1950 & the 3 point line was installed in 1979-80. That’s a good 30 years of “prehistoric” basketball. 30 years later was 2010. The game has changed drastically due to the 3 ball.

Now with 2010 going forward, we’ve seen teams ramp the amount of 3s taken to absurd levels. Following in the footsteps of Morey, Don Nelson, SVG & D’Antoni in the mid-late 2000s, with the 2011 Mavs blitzkrieging the Lakers in 2011. I’d call 2010 going forward the Modern-Modern Era.

Breakdown-

>1950 - 1978: Prehistoric NBA
1979 - 2010: Modern NBA
2010 - TBD: Modern-Modern NBA

If you wanna get more nuanced, I think the guy who was talking about when wings started playing like guards & perimeter guys started breaking down defenses with dribbling could be considered the true modern NBA post-Jordan.

[Antinomy]

To me it's been stages. A lot of you are saying 3pt line, but there has been so much drastic change in the past 20 years. To me "modern era" is much more recent.

I'm going to say 2 things have drastically effected how the game is played in the past 20 years or so.

1. Analytics have changed the approach to the game significantly.... that effects EVERYTHING from system of play, down to how players are scouted, and why types of players teams are scouting/drafting.

2. I'm going to give some credit to Steph Curry himself. I feel he really pushed the envelope with what was possible with the 3pt shot. I think he shifted the mindset of everyone who strives to play the game. He was a generational game changer imo.

I feel like the 3 ball era started moreso with the mid-00s Suns, Morey, SVG’s Magic & Don Nelson. Those guys ushered in the 3pt era that we see now.

Now if you’re talking about guys launching upwards of 10 3s a game & shooting off the dribble, stepback, etc... then I’d definitely say Steph was the architect.