Kawhi Leonard still an elite perimeter defender?

[GreatWhiteStiff]

How about my full regular season stats? Want to disregard my whole premise while you're at it? By all accounts holding people to 31% shooting and .55 PPP in isolation is ELITE. It's literally 96th percentile. That was for a guy who's supposedly "just an above average defender now". Iso defense is easily the most valuable defensive aspect considering superstars take over and 1 on 1 becomes a bigger deal as the season goes on, especially in the playoffs.

Haven't you heard? According to realgm, every stats that shows Kawhi as a great defender is bogus. Every stats that show any other player as good defender is the accurate one.

That's the current state of this board right now. "Let me pick stats that fit into my narrative and disregard every other stat that doesn't"

Can't wait until the season starts

I was kind of thiing the exact opposite but for you clippers guys. Bias is a multiway street where everyone collides at the only intersection.

[prophet_of_rage]

He is not going to be charged with defending the primary guy all game any more since he is a primary scorer now, but when you need him to lock in he is still one of the best. Nobody, however, defends one on one all game and scores now. Not even Jordan did that.

Payton on the Sonics may have been the closest.

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This is why he wanted to play with Paul george more than anyone else. Kawhi can switch off on D so he doesn’t have to take the toughest matchup every night , that will help save his bad wheels as he ages.

As you mentioned , Jordan in the latter half of career was similar. Bulls had Scottie, Ron Harper, even Rodman able to spell MJ defensively over the course of the long season.

As soon as Pippen joined the squad Jordan stopped covering the best perimeter scorer and by the time of the second three peat he was guarding the weakest back court scorer period. Longley/Wennington took the second front court scorer, Rodman defended the best front court scorer, Pippen guarded the best perimeter scorer and Harper covered the second toughest threat. Jordan was allowed to pick his spots and go score.

That's why Kawhi was referred to as the best two way player for years before becoming a superstar, because he scored at an all-star level while defending the best perimeter scorer throughout the game. Now he is getting superstar treatment. Save it for the moment and go score.

[prophet_of_rage]

He is still a top tier man defender when he's not hiding from anyone who can score to rest on defense. Doesn't make him an elite perimeter defender. Why discuss one on one defense? It's not as important as team defense.

Would you rather have a defence that is forced into rotation or one that isn't forced to go into rotation?

[CIN-C-STAR]

Those one-on-one stats look nice, but as always, stats need context.
Who was he guarding? Was he taking the weakest assignment on the perimeter most of the time, so on the rare occasion his guy did iso it was out of desperation and resulted from a broken play?
Or was he guarding the elite perimeter threat every night? The guy who has plays designed for him so weak side rim protection is occupied and there is less help defense available?
I definitely didn't watch all the Raptors regular season games last year, so I don't really know, but when I did watch I saw a lot more of the former than the latter tbh.
He's definitely still an impact defender when he wants to be, but I thought the Raps were giving him the royal superstar treatment and saving him for the playoffs, and rightfully so, but it would mean we should take these kinds of stats with a grain of salt too.
Defensive "stoppers" actually often don't have great advanced stats for this very reason: Your advanced numbers won't look great if you're tasked with guarding Lebron, Kawhi, George, Harden, Klay, Butler, etc. all season long.

[Jabroni Lames]

In totality last year, even including his increased playoff performance, he was probably the 3rd or 4th best raptor defender. It's not a slight on him; the amount of players that can sustain elite play on both sides of the ball is staggeringly low

He was the #1 perimeter defender on the Raptors based on opponent shooting percentage and ppp 1 on 1 unless we are referring to rim defense or help defense, but saying he was the 4th best defender seems like a stretch. So the fact that he did that while taking it easy in the regular season is quite impressive. So maybe you're referring to help defense, who knows.

overall defensive impact. He was quite easily behind Gasol and Siakam, unarguably, imo. Lowry is arguable

The trendy impact stat these days is called PIPM (Player Impact Plus/Minus).

Kawhi ranked 6th on the Raptors last year in Defensive Impact (D-PIPM):

Gasol: 3.48
Siakam: 2.06
Green: 1.57
Lowry: 1.20
Ibaka: 0.19
Kawhi: 0.05

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l6PWeds4w99_z1aQ5sxrwwjyTST_-esvRbQxAQHbsyE/edit#gid=0

Regardless of anything else.... it's pretty clear that Kawhi had an uber elite defensive team surrounding him. The Raptors indeed showed their team defensive chops in the playoffs, taking out 3 elite scoring teams in a row. They are going to miss Danny Green more than they realize.

[prophet_of_rage]

They know. But they will miss Kawhi more. And will appreciate the cap space more.

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[XxIronChainzxX]

What I noticed of Kawhi is on a switch or in transition he's only an above average defender, but if you get him to focus on someone and defend that guy the whole time (has to be a top guy where he wants to zone in) there is no one that has ever been better in the history of the game.

This is an eye test thing I noticed from being a Raps fan last year, something advanced stats don't pick up since the parameters would not be definable.

Oh, he's also an elite rebounder which goes unnoticed. His rebound stats aren't elite because he doesn't go for uncontested rebounds at all, but against the Sixers he came up with so many important rebounds where it looked as though Embiid, Simmons, or Harris were favoured for it.

His defensive rebounding on contested rebounds was exceptional in the playoffs. It was the same against Milwaukee in game 6, and he did it against the Warriors too. The problem with the eye test is that these moments may loom large, but I definitely thing he's got a knack for the ball and he's so freakishly strong he can grab contested boards away.

[XxIronChainzxX]

He did not appear to be elite defensively in the Finals... but that could have more to do with possibly being hobbled and possibly not having to deal with KD. I'm sure he would have stepped up defensively had the Raptors needed more from him.

He was mainly on Dray to be disruptive and switch onto Curry if necessary. He wasn't the focal defender by any stretch - that was FVV chasing Curry around and generally trying to make his life miserable.

[kingr]

He wasn't as good as I thought he would be on the Raptors last year, but he was coming off injury and he did play better D in the playoffs.

I feel as though Kawhi's defense really shines against non shooters(Ex: Giannas, Ben simmons). When KD played against the raptors early last season, KD seemed to score at will (whether kawhi was on him or not). Then again, that's KD.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Kawhi is absolutely an elite perimeter defender. Honestly, I think he's as good as he's ever been. His bigger issue is that he has physical limits to what he can do. Every player does. Kawhi is shouldering an absolutely massive load on both ends of the floor and has to pick his spots in terms of what he's going to do and not going to do. He took it easy in the regular season and he didn't need to do anything more and was still a great player and quality defender. In the playoffs, when he needed to be, he was a phenomenal defender along with a phenomenal offensive player. Against the Warriors he didn't have too much to do other than help defense because Durant was hurt and would have been his matchup otherwise.

There's just no way he can play that way all the time, nor should he really have to if his team is reasonably competent and puts a functional supporting cast around him. Kawhi isn't able to carry a sub-par team through the regular season all the way to the finals like Lebron could but he has the ability to hit a similar peak in bursts and is still very good at other times, too.

[ropjhk]

His regular season defense was nowhere near his career peak but his playoff defense was better. There's a distinction between regular season and playoff Kawhi.

[ATLTimekeeper]

He wasn't as good as I thought he would be on the Raptors last year, but he was coming off injury and he did play better D in the playoffs.

I feel as though Kawhi's defense really shines against non shooters(Ex: Giannas, Ben simmons). When KD played against the raptors early last season, KD seemed to score at will (whether kawhi was on him or not). Then again, that's KD.

This is the case of good offense always beating good defense. I thought he struggled against Klay Thompson. He's not a guy that will chase around screens anymore, and so to call him elite seems wrong. An elite defender is like KG. Kawhi is a strong defender who has transitioned into a premium scorer.

[Steven1562]

In the regular season he didn't really show it but once the playoffs started we started to see old Kawhi. He really turned it on against Simmons and Giannis.

[ropjhk]

People should also keep in mind that Leonard didn't need to be at his defensive best all the time for the Raptors. The Raptors team defense was so good that Kawhi could relax a bit on defense and instead focus more on the offensive end.

[Pennebaker]

In the regular season he didn't really show it but once the playoffs started we started to see old Kawhi. He really turned it on against Simmons and Giannis.

He didn't turn anything on. Those players are one dimensional.

KD would've lit Kawhi up if he was healthy.

[Steven1562]

In the regular season he didn't really show it but once the playoffs started we started to see old Kawhi. He really turned it on against Simmons and Giannis.

He didn't turn anything on. Those players are one dimensional.

KD would've lit Kawhi up if he was healthy.

I doubt lit up. Kawhi would have made him work way harder than any finals he was in before. He would have gotten his but it wouldn't have been easy as you say.

[makeready]

he has elite capability but had to pick his spots last year

[Pennebaker]

In the regular season he didn't really show it but once the playoffs started we started to see old Kawhi. He really turned it on against Simmons and Giannis.

He didn't turn anything on. Those players are one dimensional.

KD would've lit Kawhi up if he was healthy.

I doubt lit up. Kawhi would have made him work way harder than any finals he was in before. He would have gotten his but it wouldn't have been easy as you say.

KD didnt have to work very hard to score 11 points in 9 minutes over Kawhi in the first quarter of Game 5.

No wonder Toronto erupted with joy when Durant went down.

[CoachD]

He coasted on D during the regular season, and was not one of Toronto's best 5 defenders. In the playoffs, he certainly was.

Al the regular season talk of DPOY or best 2 way player are based on rep

[NoDopeOnSundays]

He's still a blackhole on defense, Khris Middleton basically vanished in that series with Kawhi on him.