OT: COVID-19 thread #3

[_txchilibowl_]

Just going to say I believe that number is misleading. When the pandemic originally hit we were not testing nearly as many people as we are now. I remember when it was a milestone for the US to get to 100k a day. Now we are close to 500k a day. I strongly believe and so does the majority of the scientific community that our case counts were actually much higher in March, April, and May before testing got up to these levels. So yes, we are seeing another large spike according to the official numbers, but the true infection rate is still probably below where it was in those earlier months. Maybe I'm being naïve, but I look at that as a good thing. I always expected cases to go up in different regions/states at different times.

There is only one major thing I would like to see changed about our response to this pandemic. We need to make mask wearing a universal requirement in any public places. This needs to be made by the federal government. All the studies show if we do that our cases will drop significantly and could even allow us to eradicate the virus.

Yes, the positive aspect of it is is now we have people that now know to quarantine and re-test even if showing no symptoms. When this first started you have to have serious symptoms and in many cases early on the were even limiting tests to only those that were considered at risk due to the limited access to testing.

With hospitalization data still somewhat elusive its difficult at times to gauge the seriousness. I know locally were well under capacity at the hospitals but those figures tend to be a few days old and you really have to dig to figure out how many are there in the ICU because of covid-19 many are just there in the ICU for other reasons. A recent local news broadcast said we were at 70% capacity but I had to dig online to determine that the covid figures were only 17%. That should have been part of the news item.

Also perhaps being naive but for example way back when when they estimated a certain percentage of people in Los Angeles County to be positive extrapolating the numbers, now we have better data, but its not as scary was the numbers were when we primarily only tested severe cases like back when NY was dealing with a surge.

Still quite incomplete data but a significant improvement over april/may.

Incomplete data because DeSantis is cooking the books. Stay safe Florida...

[Dresden]

Deaths in the US are still going steadily down. We'll see what happens to that in the next few weeks. Hopefully the majority of these new cases are more of the asymptomatic nature and will not result in increase deaths, at least not in proportion to the number of new cases being found.

[coldfish]

Just going to say I believe that number is misleading. When the pandemic originally hit we were not testing nearly as many people as we are now. I remember when it was a milestone for the US to get to 100k a day. Now we are close to 500k a day. I strongly believe and so does the majority of the scientific community that our case counts were actually much higher in March, April, and May before testing got up to these levels. So yes, we are seeing another large spike according to the official numbers, but the true infection rate is still probably below where it was in those earlier months. Maybe I'm being naïve, but I look at that as a good thing. I always expected cases to go up in different regions/states at different times.

There is only one major thing I would like to see changed about our response to this pandemic. We need to make mask wearing a universal requirement in any public places. This needs to be made by the federal government. All the studies show if we do that our cases will drop significantly and could even allow us to eradicate the virus.

Yes, the positive aspect of it is is now we have people that now know to quarantine and re-test even if showing no symptoms. When this first started you have to have serious symptoms and in many cases early on the were even limiting tests to only those that were considered at risk due to the limited access to testing.

With hospitalization data still somewhat elusive its difficult at times to gauge the seriousness. I know locally were well under capacity at the hospitals but those figures tend to be a few days old and you really have to dig to figure out how many are there in the ICU because of covid-19 many are just there in the ICU for other reasons. A recent local news broadcast said we were at 70% capacity but I had to dig online to determine that the covid figures were only 17%. That should have been part of the news item.

Also perhaps being naive but for example way back when when they estimated a certain percentage of people in Los Angeles County to be positive extrapolating the numbers, now we have better data, but its not as scary was the numbers were when we primarily only tested severe cases like back when NY was dealing with a surge.

Still quite incomplete data but a significant improvement over april/may.

Incomplete data because DeSantis is cooking the books. Stay safe Florida...

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

You can see more objective numbers there. Even go state by state, etc.

I'm sure Florida is lying but its not by an order of magnitude. Overall in the US, excess deaths in the US were to the point where they weren't above the statistical variation in mid June. We shall see if it starts taking off.

[Dresden]

Oklahomans over rode the decision of the GOP lead legislature and voted to expand medicaid coverage per Obamacare:

"Voters in Oklahoma narrowly approved an expansion of Medicaid on Tuesday night, making it the latest conservative-leaning state to approve of the Obamacare provision at the ballot box.

State Question 802 passed with just 50.5 percent, or by 6,488 votes. The measure bypasses the Republican-controlled Legislature and governor’s mansion to enshrine insurance coverage for low-income Oklahomans via the Affordable Care Act (ACA, or Obamacare) in the state’s constitution.

“In the middle of a pandemic, Oklahomans stepped up and delivered lifesaving care for nearly 200,000 of our neighbors, took action to keep our rural hospitals open, and brought our tax dollars home to protect jobs and boost our local economy,” Yes on 802 campaign manager Amber England said in a statement after the victory.

Oklahoma is one of the states dealing with a “Medicaid gap,” the result of Republican state governments’ choosing not to use the ACA’s Medicaid expansion provision. The expansion provides federal funds to help low-income Americans get health care, with the federal government picking up the lion’s share of the cost.

Without the expansion, some residents — specifically those who make too much to qualify for Medicaid but not enough to qualify for subsidies — are left in a difficult position when it comes to obtaining health insurance.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, as of 2018 Oklahoma had the second highest rate of uninsured residents in the country, behind only Texas. More than half a million people in the state do not have health insurance. But with Question 802 passed at the ballot box, the state must now expand Medicaid by July 1, 2021."

It's ridiculous that legislatures have chosen politics over the health of it's neediest residents, just because they can't stand anything that Obama did. Luckily, the people are seeing through this.

[Dresden]

Interesting article on Corona virus immunity:

'Significant number' of people may have some natural immunity to coronavirus
Sarah Knapton
The TelegraphJuly 1, 2020, 10:40 AM PDT
https://www.yahoo.com/news/significant-number-people-may-natural-174016140.html

[PlayerUp]

It's ridiculous that legislatures have chosen politics over the health of it's neediest residents, just because they can't stand anything that Obama did. Luckily, the people are seeing through this.

These type of things should be left to the states to decide. You don't have to live in that state. If your views are democratic then simply live in a democratic state. If your views are republican, live in a republican state. If they're open and moderate, live in a moderate state. Alot of these key issues that the federal government can't come to an agreement with should result in the states deciding the outcome. For example a state wants to defund police and/or ban guns, they can. More state power and control and less federal government meddling is the way to go on fixing many of the US key issues.

[Dresden]

It's ridiculous that legislatures have chosen politics over the health of it's neediest residents, just because they can't stand anything that Obama did. Luckily, the people are seeing through this.

These type of things should be left to the states to decide. You don't have to live in that state. If your views are democratic then simply live in a democratic state. If your views are republican, live in a republican state. If they're open and moderate, live in a moderate state. Alot of these key issues that the federal government can't come to an agreement with should result in the states deciding the outcome. For example a state wants to defund police and/or ban guns, they can. More state power and control and less federal government meddling is the way to go on fixing many of the US key issues.

People can't just pick up and leave though. There's no good reason that I know of why these states won't participate in Obamacare, other than they want to toe the GOP line and pretend there is nothing about Obamacare that could help any of their people. OK is sayin they can't afford the 10% of the extra costs that it would require. That's baloney. They FED is picking up 90% of the tab. Do the right thing and provide this health care to your state residents who can't afford it. It's infuriating.

[Dresden]

It's ridiculous that legislatures have chosen politics over the health of it's neediest residents, just because they can't stand anything that Obama did. Luckily, the people are seeing through this.

These type of things should be left to the states to decide. You don't have to live in that state. If your views are democratic then simply live in a democratic state. If your views are republican, live in a republican state. If they're open and moderate, live in a moderate state. Alot of these key issues that the federal government can't come to an agreement with should result in the states deciding the outcome. For example a state wants to defund police and/or ban guns, they can. More state power and control and less federal government meddling is the way to go on fixing many of the US key issues.

It's only costing them 10% of the price, to give a bunch more of their residents access to health care. And they refused because their legislature won't have anything to do with Obamacare. And now the people have voted to do it, over the objections of their legislature. If they had just done it in the first place, a lot more people would have access to health care these past 10 years. But I guess that's not something that's important to the GOP.

[MrSparkle]

It's ridiculous that legislatures have chosen politics over the health of it's neediest residents, just because they can't stand anything that Obama did. Luckily, the people are seeing through this.

These type of things should be left to the states to decide. You don't have to live in that state. If your views are democratic then simply live in a democratic state. If your views are republican, live in a republican state. If they're open and moderate, live in a moderate state. Alot of these key issues that the federal government can't come to an agreement with should result in the states deciding the outcome. For example a state wants to defund police and/or ban guns, they can. More state power and control and less federal government meddling is the way to go on fixing many of the US key issues.

I don’t disagree with more policy making at the local levels.

That said, if it’s gonna be the way of transferring a majority of power to states, then you must limit special Federal subsidies for states that don’t generate high volumes of jobs and capital because you can’t seek autonomy and maintain your allowance, and it should also mean you (greatly) reduce the power of the Federal Senate (Congress in general), which would be a big blow to low-density Red states. The Senate gives disproportionate power to underpopulated states due to its vast Federal powers.

Your idea of giving states more power and letting its citizens decide whether to live there or not is fundamentally flawed because there’s no such thing as a 100% red or blue state. If I want to find Trump county, I don’t need to drive all the way to Indiana or Texas, I just keep driving North or West from O’hare for 10 minutes.

Furthermore, that’s just a recipe for another civil war. There’s really no (political) difference between living in Seattle WA and Austin TX these days. There’s also no difference between Lamont WA and Paris TX. It would be absurd if people started moving to states exclusively due to political orientation.

The parties don’t even make any sense anymore. This Covid tragedy is just an example of how blatantly moronic the partisanship has become, to the point of making a stand against wearing a scientifically-advised mask. It serves no human purpose anymore - politicians are just exploiting the idiocy and communicative breakdown of the internet and general population.

20 years from now, people will look back on 2010-2030 as the age of technological confusion ; in many ways, we are in a civil war. It’s a civil war of information and comprehension.

A majority of the Adult population literally has no idea how to read and process a piece of internet information (“News”) at this point, which is our only news as all the local newspapers get gobbled up by huge investment groups and hedge funds, and almost the entire population is involved in emotive bickering from Twitter and Facebook which may or may not be sparked by bots or trolls (maybe foreign, maybe our own kids in our basements or at school).

It is actually a sort of dark age that we’ve re-entered. I actually think the Renaissance, Enlightenment Eras and Scientific and Computer and Nuclear Revolutions have culminated in a sort of cognitive peak and we are back-tracking to the age of heresy. False accusations everywhere.

The two-party system doesn’t need reform. The government needs more modern minds. McConnell, Trump and Biden (admittedly) would chopstick their way through emails if they ever spent a minute on a computer.

[_txchilibowl_]

It's ridiculous that legislatures have chosen politics over the health of it's neediest residents, just because they can't stand anything that Obama did. Luckily, the people are seeing through this.

These type of things should be left to the states to decide. You don't have to live in that state. If your views are democratic then simply live in a democratic state. If your views are republican, live in a republican state. If they're open and moderate, live in a moderate state. Alot of these key issues that the federal government can't come to an agreement with should result in the states deciding the outcome. For example a state wants to defund police and/or ban guns, they can. More state power and control and less federal government meddling is the way to go on fixing many of the US key issues.

I won't disagree with you on general principle...that's a much bigger discussion not related to this thread. But how is this an appropriate response during the middle of a global pandemic where cases are skyrocketing and millions of people are unemployed? Pick up and move? How?

The timing of all this screams politics when the answer should be looking after the well being of ALL of your states residents, not leaving them high and dry when they need you the most.

[GetBuLLish]

As the NASCAR hoax is further evidence of, the demand for racism in this country vastly, vastly, vastly outstrips the actual supply of racism.

Got any data (or analysis) to back this up? Or picking one specific instance to reinforce your beliefs?

If we are going by anecdotes, this one includes 3 racist police officers, so rest easy as supply is still pretty strong.

The data is overwhelming that Americans, and in particular young liberal Americans, believe that America is a racist country at levels that haven't been seen in decades, if ever. For example, two thirds of millennials believe that America is a racist and sexist country. See https://flagusa.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/FLAG-Patriotism-Report-11.13.2018.pdf. And go check the data on the skyrocketing usage of words like "racism," "systemic racism," "white privilege," "racial inequality," etc. in media beginning in 2015.

But besides the data, my point isn't really data specific. It's common sense observation. Never in my life have I heard of more accusations of racism on a daily basis. And outright anti-white racism has never been more common place and accepted.

A tiny set of examples of the malignant obsession over race from people in power or with influence:

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

And of course there's the incredibly popular but astoundingly horrific book "White Fragility," which is going to be pushed on school kids across the country, I'm sure. See this article for a nice breakdown of this impossibly stupid piece of propoganda: https://taibbi.substack.com/p/on-white-fragility

The fact is that this country is on a collision course with full blown socialism. The complete intolerance for dissenting opinion, the violence, the destruction of this country's history through monuments, holidays, etc. The similarities between what's going on today and what George Orwell described in 1984 are nothing short of stunning.

Read on Twitter

[DuckIII]

Haha, what a paranoid load of self justifying ****.

[PlayerUp]

People can't just pick up and leave though. There's no good reason that I know of why these states won't participate in Obamacare, other than they want to toe the GOP line and pretend there is nothing about Obamacare that could help any of their people. OK is sayin they can't afford the 10% of the extra costs that it would require. That's baloney. They FED is picking up 90% of the tab. Do the right thing and provide this health care to your state residents who can't afford it. It's infuriating.

Information for those who want to know - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/1-percent-margin-oklahoma-voters-expand-medicaid-low-income-residents-n1232645

[PlayerUp]

I won't disagree with you on general principle...that's a much bigger discussion not related to this thread. But how is this an appropriate response during the middle of a global pandemic where cases are skyrocketing and millions of people are unemployed? Pick up and move? How?

The timing of all this screams politics when the answer should be looking after the well being of ALL of your states residents, not leaving them high and dry when they need you the most.

This is why I don't support either the democratic or republican party.

I support some democratic policies and republican policies right in the middle on that but due to the federal government overspending and toxic politicians at the top on both ends controlled by their donors, I can't really support either party. Max freedom for individuals is the way to go and that can really only be done at the state level letting them have the most control without the federal government being involved on the bulk of issues. Of course you still need the federal government involved on world issues and key US issues but I am a believer on small government and downsizing the federal governments involvement. I pointed out before how there have been discussions about California and Texas splitting away from the US which won't happen but with the US so divided it seems states pushing against federal policies will become a more common thing in the near future.

[PlayerUp]

The two-party system doesn’t need reform. The government needs more modern minds. McConnell, Trump and Biden (admittedly) would chopstick their way through emails if they ever spent a minute on a computer.

We badly need term limits in congress. It would help clear out this group of old bought toxic politicians that are unwilling to compromise.

[PlayerUp]

That said, if it’s gonna be the way of transferring a majority of power to states, then you must limit special Federal subsidies for states that don’t generate high volumes of jobs and capital because you can’t seek autonomy and maintain your allowance, and it should also mean you (greatly) reduce the power of the Federal Senate (Congress in general), which would be a big blow to low-density Red states. The Senate gives disproportionate power to underpopulated states due to its vast Federal powers.

Your idea of giving states more power and letting its citizens decide whether to live there or not is fundamentally flawed because there’s no such thing as a 100% red or blue state. If I want to find Trump county, I don’t need to drive all the way to Indiana or Texas, I just keep driving North or West from O’hare for 10 minutes.

You don't have to do everything overnight. Make it a gradual longterm process. Start with the very simple policies that really the federal government shouldn't be involved in the 1st place. Also states can decide if they want to opt out or opt in to the federal governments policies. Let the voters decide.

As you mentioned we need a more modern government and with so many mixed cultures and races in America now and people wanting different things, the government badly needs to be retooled and reformed to fit our modern society and beliefs.

[dice]

As the NASCAR hoax is further evidence of, the demand for racism in this country vastly, vastly, vastly outstrips the actual supply of racism.

Got any data (or analysis) to back this up? Or picking one specific instance to reinforce your beliefs?

If we are going by anecdotes, this one includes 3 racist police officers, so rest easy as supply is still pretty strong.

The data is overwhelming that Americans, and in particular young liberal Americans, believe that America is a racist country at levels that haven't been seen in decades, if ever. For example, two thirds of millennials believe that America is a racist and sexist country.

it is a racist country

the presence of confederate statues and flags obviously failed to wise you up to that, as did the election of a president who, if he's not a white nationalist himself, sure as **** caters to them. one of them is in charge of immigration policy right now:



another was a chief advisor to the president:



and that's just the tip of the iceberg:

https://americasvoice.org/blog/trump-administration-and-white-nationalists/
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/08/trump-white-nationalism/568393/

and the bulk of the GOP is still willing to believe the blatantly racist birtherism conspiracy theory!

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/birtherism-and-trump/610978/

is the US more racist than most countries? don't know, don't care

But besides the data, my point isn't really data specific. It's common sense observation. Never in my life have I heard of more accusations of racism on a daily basis.

SO. WHAT.

the occasional false accusation of racism or its occasional weaponization for vile purposes doesn't compare to the societal benefit that comes from the increased freedom felt to point out actual racism. and that's where we're at right now. people feel more free than ever to speak their minds about their experiences, whether real or merely perceived. and that's a wonderful thing. because the conversations need to be had rather than swept under the rug just so that people like you don't have to deal with it

And outright anti-white racism has never been more common place and accepted.

yes, we are more accepting of minorities expressing negative views about their oppressors than we used to be. it is a natural function of the degree of that oppression slowly receding (with a long way to go)

the real damage of racism stems from the subjugation of races. and you'd have to really warp logic to suggest that white america is being subjugated

A tiny set of examples of the malignant obsession over race

you just described yourself to a tee

And of course there's the incredibly popular but astoundingly horrific book "White Fragility,"...

you are its poster child, what with your "anti-white racism" victim mindset. fragile like a china doll. you simply wouldn't make it as a black man in our society. suggestion: if your feelings are hurt by a black person calling you a honky or something, take a cue from taylor swift and shake it off. 'cause you can bet your pale ass that the person calling you that has surely had to shake off far worse just to maintain sanity. hopefully you'll be reincarnated as a black male born in...let's say 1979 worcester, MA...so that you can learn a thing or two about what it's like to be black in modern america

https://www.wbur.org/news/2020/07/01/alleged-hate-crime-in-worcester-latest-in-a-string-of-racist-incidents-statewide

The fact is that this country is on a collision course with full blown socialism...

what is "full blown" socialism? communism? if so, not by a country mile. every nation is socialist to some degree, the US significantly less than most. this nation's PROGRESSIVE party doesn't even favor the closest thing to "full blown" socialism we have (bernie sanders) over moderate establishment candidates

....The complete intolerance for dissenting opinion, the violence, the destruction of this country's history through monuments, holidays, etc. The similarities between what's going on today and what George Orwell described in 1984 are nothing short of stunning.

you're somehow confusing socialism with totalitarianism. it's pretty astounding that you don't recognize that the US is not only NOT a single party state, but about as far from it as it gets right now. and orwell certainly wasn't referencing a nation where freedom of speech and freedom of the press is encoded in its constitution and enforced

societally, the level of insistence on political correctness and "cancel culture" don't come close to what orwell was talking about either. what DOES come close is the deep problem we currently have with accepting/recognizing facts in this country. and that comes not from the democratic socialism side of things. it comes from the right-wing, authoritarian wannabe side, led by an orange menace who is in bed with the guy he wishes he was: an ACTUAL authoritarian in the form of a former KGB agent. it comes from people who try to manipulate facts to suggest things like, i dunno...that racism doesn't exist here. or that wearing a mask during a once-in-a-century pandemic is not a reasonable requirement to enter a store

the tearing down of statues that is going on right now is not being done to erase history. it is being done in recognition of the TRUTH of that history. statues of traitors/oppressors belong in museums, not in public spaces where the ancestors of slaves have to be continually reminded that that mindset not only still exists, but indeed is celebrated

[dice]

The two-party system doesn’t need reform. The government needs more modern minds. McConnell, Trump and Biden (admittedly) would chopstick their way through emails if they ever spent a minute on a computer.

We badly need term limits in congress. It would help clear out this group of old bought toxic politicians that are unwilling to compromise.

again, term limits don't solve that problem. they ENHANCE it. they would encourage a revolving door of politicians and lobbyists. reducing the impact of money on politics is the only thing that reduces the number/degree of bought politicians

[PlayerUp]

reducing the impact of money on politics is the only thing that reduces the number/degree of bought politicians

Well I agree with this as well 100%.

Along with this it encourages more new candidates to run for congress who currently see they have little to no chance to win because they could not secure funding to compete.

America badly needs to reform all around in many areas to adapt to our modern society. Sadly congress is not proactive and it seems only when a major tragedy happens congress actually steps up and starts discussions on doing reforms (major shooting sparks gun reform, george floyd sparks police reform).

[TallDude]

It's ridiculous that legislatures have chosen politics over the health of it's neediest residents, just because they can't stand anything that Obama did. Luckily, the people are seeing through this.

These type of things should be left to the states to decide. You don't have to live in that state. If your views are democratic then simply live in a democratic state. If your views are republican, live in a republican state. If they're open and moderate, live in a moderate state. Alot of these key issues that the federal government can't come to an agreement with should result in the states deciding the outcome. For example a state wants to defund police and/or ban guns, they can. More state power and control and less federal government meddling is the way to go on fixing many of the US key issues.

It's only costing them 10% of the price, to give a bunch more of their residents access to health care. And they refused because their legislature won't have anything to do with Obamacare. And now the people have voted to do it, over the objections of their legislature. If they had just done it in the first place, a lot more people would have access to health care these past 10 years. But I guess that's not something that's important to the GOP.

Old news for me. Finnish doctors notice that in March. That was also major newspapers. But it is really small group of people. probably other countries don`t pay too much attention what is going on in Finland I hope Finland is the country who found cure first because we are prepared tp give it everyone as ast as possible. They say we are pretty close to vaccine but Finland is way too small country to handle logistics alone. I don`t care who will be first but i hope it is someone who don`t just try to make business (like Trump but he is not only one).Half of the people don`t probably have money to buy it. So rich countries must pay vaccine and spread it eveywhere. Today we have in hospitals 23 corona patiens and zero critical cases. Meanwhile in Sweden things look ugly. Same goes Russia. Baltic countries, Danmark and Norway are doing great also. Things are pretty much normal here right now. Hopefully second wave don`t come before vaccine. I really miss watching NHL, NBA and Soccer with audience. Formula 1 starts sunday. Gladly i can play now soccer and basketball again. But i miss watching sports. Can`t wait. Only sad thing is that Bulls are out. Even how bad team is still mostly like to watch.