Trade Talk (Part Seven)

[Nick K]

I loved Simmons coming out of the draft. That said, I believe he is over-rated in a lot of ways. He's a great defender for sure and can get to the basket but he has major weaknesses.

On the Wolves he'll have to play the PF and be the 4th option. Can he do that? Can he play inside and rebound and rim protect like a demon? If he can't do that we should look elsewhere for that because that's what we need.

I don't know if Simmons can be great inside. If I knew he could be I would go all out to get him but I'm not convinced.

We just ram Wiggins out of town for lack of passion and killer instinct. Isn't that Ben Simmons?

If Simmons is so great why is Philly trying to run him out of town?

I could give up Ricky and Beasley but those are two very good players that are great pieces for a team. Philly would be a better team with those two guys. In fact they are perfect for Philly but two future 1st rd picks are too much.

Lastly, he's still owed 140 million frickin dollars! That's 4 more years. He'll be the highest paid guy on the team. Can you pay that kind of money to the 4th option. How will Kat feel about that. Kat is a far better overall player.

Being a great defender only gets you so far in a team game like basketball.

There is 1.2 seconds left on the clock and you are down by 2 and they foul Simmons. How confident are you he ties the game.

You make great points...the only one I would address is the last one...I wouldn't be confident in Simmons making 2of2...[b]but I wouldn't be confident in KAT doing it either, especially if it's a big game.[/b]

Are you aware Kat shot 85.9% from the line last year? 83.5% career. i'll take my chances with Kat.

Kat gets plenty of critism. Of course we're fans. We criticize, that's what we do.....but I just noticed Kat's numbers. Get this he averaged last year, 25/11/5. How may guys in the league do that? He shot 49% field and 39% from 3. 86% from the line. I think he still can get better. We're lucky to have him.

[Norseman79]

I loved Simmons coming out of the draft. That said, I believe he is over-rated in a lot of ways. He's a great defender for sure and can get to the basket but he has major weaknesses.

On the Wolves he'll have to play the PF and be the 4th option. Can he do that? Can he play inside and rebound and rim protect like a demon? If he can't do that we should look elsewhere for that because that's what we need.

I don't know if Simmons can be great inside. If I knew he could be I would go all out to get him but I'm not convinced.

We just ram Wiggins out of town for lack of passion and killer instinct. Isn't that Ben Simmons?

If Simmons is so great why is Philly trying to run him out of town?

I could give up Ricky and Beasley but those are two very good players that are great pieces for a team. Philly would be a better team with those two guys. In fact they are perfect for Philly but two future 1st rd picks are too much.

Lastly, he's still owed 140 million frickin dollars! That's 4 more years. He'll be the highest paid guy on the team. Can you pay that kind of money to the 4th option. How will Kat feel about that. Kat is a far better overall player.

Being a great defender only gets you so far in a team game like basketball.

There is 1.2 seconds left on the clock and you are down by 2 and they foul Simmons. How confident are you he ties the game.

You make great points...the only one I would address is the last one...I wouldn't be confident in Simmons making 2of2...[b]but I wouldn't be confident in KAT doing it either, especially if it's a big game.[/b]

Are you aware Kat shot 85.9% from the line last year? 83.5% career. i'll take my chances with Kat.

Kat gets plenty of critism. Of course we're fans. We criticize, that's what we do.....but I just noticed Kat's numbers. Get this he averaged last year, 25/11/5. How may guys in the league do that? He shot 49% field and 39% from 3. 86% from the line. I think he still can get better. We're lucky to have him.

Kirk Cousins and Kevin Love put up good numbers too. What happens in crunch time and clutch moments. Not knocking Kats ability at all, just when it shows up vs disappears

[Colbinii]

You make great points...the only one I would address is the last one...I wouldn't be confident in Simmons making 2of2...[b]but I wouldn't be confident in KAT doing it either, especially if it's a big game.[/b]

Are you aware Kat shot 85.9% from the line last year? 83.5% career. i'll take my chances with Kat.

Kat gets plenty of critism. Of course we're fans. We criticize, that's what we do.....but I just noticed Kat's numbers. Get this he averaged last year, 25/11/5. How may guys in the league do that? He shot 49% field and 39% from 3. 86% from the line. I think he still can get better. We're lucky to have him.

Kirk Cousins and Kevin Love put up good numbers too. What happens in crunch time and clutch moments. Not knocking Kats ability at all, just when it shows up vs disappears

But Cousins has performed in big moments...did you not watch the Saints game?

Towns shot 90% in the clutch at the line this season.

[Howard Cosell]

We’re all getting to pretty much the same point in a potential Rosas offer to Philadelphia for Simmons.

But I would suggests the deal needs to include a FRP to Toronto to get Lowry to Philly.


MN IN: Ben Simmons / 33mil / 4 yrs

TOR IN: Ricky Rubio / 17.8mil / 1 yr
Gary Clarke / 2mil / 1 yr
Timberwolves 2022 1st round pick


PHI IN: Malik Beasley / 14.3mil / 3yrs
Timberwolves 2023 2nd round pick
Timberwolves 2024 1st round pick
Kyle Lowery / S&T 20mil/ 3 yrs

If the addition of Simmons to Twolves doesn’t work out for Minnesota in 2 years then the organization under a new GM will trade Towns to get back future assists/FRP’s.

I’m convinced..I could be wrong of course…but I’m convinced Rosas will load up future FRP’s to dislodge Simmons from Philly and get him to Minnesota to play alongside Edwards, Towns, Dlo and McDaniels.

Brace yourself for an offer of multiple FRP’s to get this done..possibly even 3 of them…gulp.

Rosas going all-in.

[Norseman79]

Are you aware Kat shot 85.9% from the line last year? 83.5% career. i'll take my chances with Kat.

Kat gets plenty of critism. Of course we're fans. We criticize, that's what we do.....but I just noticed Kat's numbers. Get this he averaged last year, 25/11/5. How may guys in the league do that? He shot 49% field and 39% from 3. 86% from the line. I think he still can get better. We're lucky to have him.

Kirk Cousins and Kevin Love put up good numbers too. What happens in crunch time and clutch moments. Not knocking Kats ability at all, just when it shows up vs disappears

But Cousins has performed in big moments...did you not watch the Saints game?

Towns shot 90% in the clutch at the line this season.

I didn't know the Wolves had any clutch games this year? I don't meaningless games in a lost season as being clutch. As for Cousins, when you can point to one game out of three years worth of games as an example, you kind of prove my point.

[Colbinii]

Kirk Cousins and Kevin Love put up good numbers too. What happens in crunch time and clutch moments. Not knocking Kats ability at all, just when it shows up vs disappears

But Cousins has performed in big moments...did you not watch the Saints game?

Towns shot 90% in the clutch at the line this season.

I didn't know the Wolves had any clutch games this year? I don't meaningless games in a lost season as being clutch. As for Cousins, when you can point to one game out of three years worth of games as an example, you kind of prove my point.

So the team was ravaged by injuries last year.

The entire team was completely destroyed by the 49ers.

Cousins performed great against the Saints and has also had a ton of other big moments (Remember the Packer game where our kicker missed 3 field goals?)

I'm not sure what you are arguing here. You're ignoring facts and changing the goal posts to support some opinion you have that honestly has no ground to stand on.

I'll just let you have your uneducated and uninformed opinion based on nothing. Have a nice day. Go Wolves!

[Nick K]

We’re all getting to pretty much the same point in a potential Rosas offer to Philadelphia for Simmons.

But I would suggests the deal needs to include a FRP to Toronto to get Lowry to Philly.


MN IN: Ben Simmons / 33mil / 4 yrs

TOR IN: Ricky Rubio / 17.8mil / 1 yr
Gary Clarke / 2mil / 1 yr
Timberwolves 2022 1st round pick


PHI IN: Malik Beasley / 14.3mil / 3yrs
Timberwolves 2023 2nd round pick
Timberwolves 2024 1st round pick
Kyle Lowery / S&T 20mil/ 3 yrs

If the addition of Simmons to Twolves doesn’t work out for Minnesota in 2 years then the organization under a new GM will trade Towns to get back future assists/FRP’s.

I’m convinced..I could be wrong of course…but I’m convinced Rosas will load up future FRP’s to dislodge Simmons from Philly and get him to Minnesota to play alongside Edwards, Towns, Dlo and McDaniels.

Brace yourself for an offer of multiple FRP’s to get this done..possibly even 3 of them…gulp.

Rosas going all-in.

Teams that give up multiple 1st rd picks almost always regret it. No way I give up 2 starters (Rubio and Beas could start on a number of teams) and 2 future 1st's for a guy who has serious holes in his game. If it were LeBron 10 years ago then yes I would.

[Nick K]

But Cousins has performed in big moments...did you not watch the Saints game?

Towns shot 90% in the clutch at the line this season.

I didn't know the Wolves had any clutch games this year? I don't meaningless games in a lost season as being clutch. As for Cousins, when you can point to one game out of three years worth of games as an example, you kind of prove my point.

So the team was ravaged by injuries last year.

The entire team was completely destroyed by the 49ers.

Cousins performed great against the Saints and has also had a ton of other big moments (Remember the Packer game where our kicker missed 3 field goals?)

I'm not sure what you are arguing here. You're ignoring facts and changing the goal posts to support some opinion you have that honestly has no ground to stand on.

I'll just let you have your uneducated and uninformed opinion based on nothing. Have a nice day. Go Wolves!

That settles that! Well done.

[Norseman79]

But Cousins has performed in big moments...did you not watch the Saints game?

Towns shot 90% in the clutch at the line this season.

I didn't know the Wolves had any clutch games this year? I don't meaningless games in a lost season as being clutch. As for Cousins, when you can point to one game out of three years worth of games as an example, you kind of prove my point.

So the team was ravaged by injuries last year.

The entire team was completely destroyed by the 49ers.

Cousins performed great against the Saints and has also had a ton of other big moments (Remember the Packer game where our kicker missed 3 field goals?)

I'm not sure what you are arguing here. You're ignoring facts and changing the goal posts to support some opinion you have that honestly has no ground to stand on.

I'll just let you have your uneducated and uninformed opinion based on nothing. Have a nice day. Go Wolves!

I have no problem with people looking at everything through Rose colored glasses. I think Kirk Cousins is a decent NFL quarterback, decent not worth his contract. I also think Karl towns is a good basketball player, but he hasn't proven to be a great basketball player. Great basketball players transcend adversity, yeah there are a bunch of excuses we can point to and some of them are legit. However, until we're down two with two seconds left in a game 7 type of a situation and towns goes to the line with a double-double in hand and a chance to send the game into overtime and he does it then he'll prove me wrong. As of right now, I see him as a great number two who needs an alpha to handle pressure situations. Hopefully, that's Ant.

[Nick K]

What about trying to deal with OKC's 6th choice for Scottie Barnes if he''s still there. He'd be the perfect pick after Mobley here next to Towns.

Would they consider our former #6 pick Culver +, plus our 1st rd pick next year? Maybe they might want Juancho or Layman thrown in? Who knows? They liked Culver 2 years ago. Any ideas?

[BlacJacMac]

Not sure I'd do it, but that seems like a reasonable, well-thought out trade that works for all 3 teams.

Not an easy thing to accomplish.

That's a pretty similar deal to the one Minimus had earlier & my variation is very similar as well...but first, I'd like some clarity on the Stepian rule...how can we trade 22 frp when we just dealt this year's 21 to GSW? Don't we need to start with 23 frp's here?

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

Stepien only applies to future picks. Since this pick has been conveyed at this point, it no longer counts towards it.

I believe we have to wait until after the draft to trade 2022.

[BlacJacMac]

What about trying to deal with OKC's 6th choice for Scottie Barnes if he''s still there. He'd be the perfect pick after Mobley here next to Towns.

Would they consider our former #6 pick Culver +, plus our 1st rd pick next year? Maybe they might want Juancho or Layman thrown in? Who knows? They liked Culver 2 years ago. Any ideas?

Culver is a negative asset.

[Nick K]

What about trying to deal with OKC's 6th choice for Scottie Barnes if he''s still there. He'd be the perfect pick after Mobley here next to Towns.

Would they consider our former #6 pick Culver +, plus our 1st rd pick next year? Maybe they might want Juancho or Layman thrown in? Who knows? They liked Culver 2 years ago. Any ideas?

Culver is a negative asset.

That's the popular view here in MN. I think the jury is out. He can still turn out to be a very good player. Some guys just take more time.

Last year showed little to nothing because he was hurt most of the time. My only issue with him mainly is he's paid too much. I'd love to give him more time.

A smart team would pick him up and develop him. He has the body, athleticism and work ethic. Plus he's a great citizen.The kid was a helluva player at Texas Tech.

[shrink]

I wanna ask, is there any possible way we can get Simmons without giving away: KAT, Ant, Rubio, D'Lo, Beasley, J McD?

Absolutely.

But you’d be very disappointed when you found out we traded for Jonathan Simmons…

is he still playing?

Remember when the Wizards/Suns/Grizzlies trade a couple years ago that got shut down because the Suns thought they were getting Dillon Brooks, and the Grizzlies thought they were trading away Marshon Brooks!?

[Worm Guts]

What about trying to deal with OKC's 6th choice for Scottie Barnes if he''s still there. He'd be the perfect pick after Mobley here next to Towns.

Would they consider our former #6 pick Culver +, plus our 1st rd pick next year? Maybe they might want Juancho or Layman thrown in? Who knows? They liked Culver 2 years ago. Any ideas?

Culver is a negative asset.

That's the popular view here in MN. I think the jury is out. He can still turn out to be a very good player. Some guys just take more time.

Last year showed little to nothing because he was hurt most of the time. My only issue with him mainly is he's paid too much. I'd love to give him more time.

A smart team would pick him up and develop him. He has the body, athleticism and work ethic. Plus he's a great citizen.The kid was a helluva player at Texas Tech.

I wouldn’t necessarily write him off, but I can’t see a team offering anything of value in a trade either. The problem is that you probably have to decline his option at the beginning of the season, which means even if he breaks out you have lost his Bird Rights.

[Nick K]

Absolutely.

But you’d be very disappointed when you found out we traded for Jonathan Simmons…

is he still playing?

Remember when the Wizards/Suns/Grizzlies trade a couple years ago that got shut down because the Suns thought they were getting Dillon Brooks, and the Grizzlies thought they were trading away Marshon Brooks!?

I don't remember that but what a hoot! Oops.

[shrink]

I wrote this elsewhere - some thoughts on Ben Simmons.

1. On the Trade Board, we polled his value as “what pick could he get back in this draft?” The median was between the 6 and 7, actually 46 voted 6 or higher, and 46 voted 7 or lower. The mean is lower still - some thought he wasn’t even worth a lottery pick. As we know, it only takes one (usually two) bidders to get a high price, but the valuation is very divided.

2. I am firmly in the lower half. I realize what a ridiculously good defensive player Simmons is, but unless he can improve his offense (and we have never seen that so far), he will always be able to be schemed against, especially in a playoff series. On top of this, he also needs to regain his confidence after a nightmare series. I think that’s impossible in PHI, where fans will boo him, Embiid threw him under the bus, and Doc didn’t stick up for him. Some PHI fans want to wait and see if his trade value rebounds after the finals, but most feel it could get lower, and PHI can’t risk starting the next season with him roster.

3. I think PHI is forced to trade Simmons, but keep in mind, Simmons is on that massive contract, for four more years. He is not going to be worth a giant trade return unless he can regain his confidence. I don’t like to admit it, but MIN might be the best place for that. It doesn’t have a media spotlight, and the fans here would embrace any addition of talent. I have heard Towns and Simmons are friends (KAT allegedly lobbied behind the scenes to keep Ben from getting punished for the choking incident) and Ben is even closer with DLo, who he played high school ball with. On top of that, MIN has its own “guard whisperer” in Ricky Rubio, who Donovan Mitchell, Devon Booker, and Anthony Edwards all credit for their big leaps in productivity. Which of these players that would still be on the roster after a trade would all depend on which package MIN created to match Simmons salary.

4. I am no fan of DLo, but the concept of him really fits PHI. They need someone who can create, who can run the pick-and-roll, who can shoot, and who they can put the ball in his hands in the final two minutes. Even DLo’s horrible defense is less of a problem for MIN. DLo for Tobias Harris makes some sense for PHI, if the Sixers believe that he could help fix Simmons. Simmons has less value to PHI than most teams, and DLo has more value to PHI than to most teams - this is the tinder that makes for good trades. And with all the available PG’s this summer in sign-and-trades and trade, I don’t think Russell is irreplaceable for us this year.

5. While I am lower on the price of Simmons than most, I think at least one pick would be required. However, I think MIN has other assets that PHI would want to replace a pick - namely Jaden McDaniels and/or Naz Reid. Yes, they aren’t vets, but they are certainly rotation pieces, and most importantly for the Sixers- they are cheap. I don’t want to give up McDaniels, but I think that using the recently drafted players is a beneficial churn for Rosas. The one talent he has demonstrated is that he can get value out of the draft - 5 of 6 players are probably worth more than their slot. I think the team can get better around the edges by keeping picks and trading these types of players to open up minutes and roles for the next young players Rosas can acquire

[shrink]

Remember when the Wizards/Suns/Grizzlies trade a couple years ago that got shut down because the Suns thought they were getting Dillon Brooks, and the Grizzlies thought they were trading away Marshon Brooks!?

I don't remember that but what a hoot! Oops.

Yeah, we tend to think of the real NBA, with millions on the line in every transaction, that each team is going to be perfect. But these are just people.

Speaking of “not perfect,” a number of years back David Kahn signed a contract to acquire Andrei Kirilenko. We had word that he had promised money to other free agents that wasn’t official yet, so the offer seemed close, but confusing. I couldn’t figure out how it was possible. It turns out - it wasn’t. The deal got nixed by the NBA because Kahn didn’t add up the team’s cap space correctly, and had sent an illegal trade to the NBA head office! Kahn later had to make an additional, costly move, to get that extra smidgeon of cap space to give AK the contract he’d already signed.

It boggles my mind that this could happen, but now I get a good laugh over it.

[IceManBK1]

As a last resort, would you trade Huancho, Culver and 2nd rder for Marvin Bagley III and mo markless? Bagley is an average pf both on offense and defense. and mo markless is a 3D guy.

[Norseman79]

As a last resort, would you trade Huancho, Culver and 2nd rder for Marvin Bagley III and mo markless? Bagley is an average pf both on offense and defense. and mo markless is a 3D guy.

Absolutely.