We don't have a plan (and it is pretty obvious)

[JasonStern]

I mean how much is she hand's on with this team though?

I think she just let's Neil do whatever he wants more or less, she isn't like Paul Allen who was an extremely hands on owner. At least she shows she is willing to spend for this team, the re-signing of Powell shows that.

+1 on that. I'm not a baseball fan. So if through some fluke I inherited a baseball team, and that team was both profitable and consistently made the playoffs, I would likely think management is doing a good job - even if there was no chance of winning a 'chip.

[Tomjas]

I mean how much is she hand's on with this team though?

I think she just let's Neil do whatever he wants more or less, she isn't like Paul Allen who was an extremely hands on owner. At least she shows she is willing to spend for this team, the re-signing of Powell shows that.

+1 on that. I'm not a baseball fan. So if through some fluke I inherited a baseball team, and that team was both profitable and consistently made the playoffs, I would likely think management is doing a good job - even if there was no chance of winning a 'chip.

She’s a philanthropist so won’t do anything to hurt hurt the team’s value but that also makes her unlikely to go all in and pay the repeater tax

[monopoman]

I mean how much is she hand's on with this team though?

I think she just let's Neil do whatever he wants more or less, she isn't like Paul Allen who was an extremely hands on owner. At least she shows she is willing to spend for this team, the re-signing of Powell shows that.

+1 on that. I'm not a baseball fan. So if through some fluke I inherited a baseball team, and that team was both profitable and consistently made the playoffs, I would likely think management is doing a good job - even if there was no chance of winning a 'chip.

She’s a philanthropist so won’t do anything to hurt hurt the team’s value but that also makes her unlikely to go all in and pay the repeater tax

If they wanted to avoid that tax she should have let Powell walk, it would be very difficult to get under the luxury tax next season.

[Tomjas]

I mean how much is she hand's on with this team though?

I think she just let's Neil do whatever he wants more or less, she isn't like Paul Allen who was an extremely hands on owner. At least she shows she is willing to spend for this team, the re-signing of Powell shows that.

+1 on that. I'm not a baseball fan. So if through some fluke I inherited a baseball team, and that team was both profitable and consistently made the playoffs, I would likely think management is doing a good job - even if there was no chance of winning a 'chip.

She’s a philanthropist so won’t do anything to hurt hurt the team’s value but that also makes her unlikely to go all in and pay the repeater tax

Was thinking more in terms of a Warriors level tax bill

Blazers is manageable

[DeBlazerRiddem]

+1 on that. I'm not a baseball fan. So if through some fluke I inherited a baseball team, and that team was both profitable and consistently made the playoffs, I would likely think management is doing a good job - even if there was no chance of winning a 'chip.

She’s a philanthropist so won’t do anything to hurt hurt the team’s value but that also makes her unlikely to go all in and pay the repeater tax

If they wanted to avoid that tax she should have let Powell walk, it would be very difficult to get under the luxury tax next season.

I think they will pay the luxury tax, but probably not the repeater tax. The best way to avoid that is to duck the luxury tax this year. They are 366k into it so it shouldn't be too hard, pay someone to absorb Elleby at the trade deadline or something.

[monopoman]

She’s a philanthropist so won’t do anything to hurt hurt the team’s value but that also makes her unlikely to go all in and pay the repeater tax

If they wanted to avoid that tax she should have let Powell walk, it would be very difficult to get under the luxury tax next season.

I think they will pay the luxury tax, but probably not the repeater tax. The best way to avoid that is to duck the luxury tax this year. They are 366k into it so it shouldn't be too hard, pay someone to absorb Elleby at the trade deadline or something.

Well we have been skirting that line for the past few years, barely going under the luxury year after year or making a move to save a few million to go under it. I just think it gets harder every year, since Dame will get annoyed if they start talking about letting Nurkic or Covington walk.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

If they wanted to avoid that tax she should have let Powell walk, it would be very difficult to get under the luxury tax next season.

I think they will pay the luxury tax, but probably not the repeater tax. The best way to avoid that is to duck the luxury tax this year. They are 366k into it so it shouldn't be too hard, pay someone to absorb Elleby at the trade deadline or something.

Well we have been skirting that line for the past few years, barely going under the luxury year after year or making a move to save a few million to go under it. I just think it gets harder every year, since Dame will get annoyed if they start talking about letting Nurkic or Covington walk.

We paid the tax for several years before last year when we ducked under it. And the point of ducking under it in back to back years is that we then have 3 seasons before the repeater tax comes back into play, which allows us to keep Nurkic and Covington.

Paying the tax this year would put us in luxury tax territory for the entirety of any contract we resign Nurkic/Covington to and especially when Lillard is getting nearly 50 million/year.

Ducking it now is the smart long-term move so that we can continue to spend big in keeping talent.

[JasonStern]

I think they will pay the luxury tax, but probably not the repeater tax. The best way to avoid that is to duck the luxury tax this year. They are 366k into it so it shouldn't be too hard, pay someone to absorb Elleby at the trade deadline or something.

Totally see something like that or DJJ+cash for a slightly cheaper player (if Billups can't get useful minutes out of DJJ).

Well we have been skirting that line for the past few years, barely going under the luxury year after year or making a move to save a few million to go under it. I just think it gets harder every year, since Dame will get annoyed if they start talking about letting Nurkic or Covington walk.

Next off-season is definitely when Olshey's house of cards starts to crumble. You'd need Nurkić and Covington to sign for MLE money, ideally on declining contracts, and that's just to run this team back again. Side effect of spending the entire salary cap on 6'3" or shorter guards.

Paying the tax this year would put us in luxury tax territory for the entirety of any contract we resign Nurkic/Covington to and especially when Lillard is getting nearly 50 million/year.

Ducking it now is the smart long-term move so that we can continue to spend big in keeping talent.

That and it's questionable whether this roster is good enough to justify paying luxury tax in the first place.

[PDXKnight]

I think they will pay the luxury tax, but probably not the repeater tax. The best way to avoid that is to duck the luxury tax this year. They are 366k into it so it shouldn't be too hard, pay someone to absorb Elleby at the trade deadline or something.

Totally see something like that or DJJ+cash for a slightly cheaper player (if Billups can't get useful minutes out of DJJ).

Well we have been skirting that line for the past few years, barely going under the luxury year after year or making a move to save a few million to go under it. I just think it gets harder every year, since Dame will get annoyed if they start talking about letting Nurkic or Covington walk.

Next off-season is definitely when Olshey's house of cards starts to crumble. You'd need Nurkić and Covington to sign for MLE money, ideally on declining contracts, and that's just to run this team back again. Side effect of spending the entire salary cap on 6'3" or shorter guards.

Paying the tax this year would put us in luxury tax territory for the entirety of any contract we resign Nurkic/Covington to and especially when Lillard is getting nearly 50 million/year.

Ducking it now is the smart long-term move so that we can continue to spend big in keeping talent.

That and it's questionable whether this roster is good enough to justify paying luxury tax in the first place.

I don’t know if olshey makes a big trade but i think we are waiting on big trades to go down in the nba before we decide what to do with djj. If we get off our butts and deal cj maybe there’s a decent chance we take less salary back in return and/or lessen future commitments

I think Nurk is gone in the off season unless he gets almost nothing in his next contract. Olshey seldom inks centers up to big deals and offered nurk peanuts on his last deal (great deal for portland but shows olshey wasn’t that serious about retaining him imo). And years of injuries later i don’t think makes him want nurk any more

[JasonStern]

I don’t know if olshey makes a big trade but i think we are waiting on big trades to go down in the nba before we decide what to do with djj. If we get off our butts and deal cj maybe there’s a decent chance we take less salary back in return and/or lessen future commitments

I think Nurk is gone in the off season unless he gets almost nothing in his next contract. Olshey seldom inks centers up to big deals and offered nurk peanuts on his last deal (great deal for portland but shows olshey wasn’t that serious about retaining him imo). And years of injuries later i don’t think makes him want nurk any more

If Olshey hasn't made a big trade in 9 seasons, what makes you think he'd suddenly do so now?

Best realistic trade would be DJJ+2022 1st for a marginal upgrade. But who on a MLE size contract would really be that big of an upgrade?

Given a lack of demand for big men in the modern NBA and his injury history, I could see Nurkić signing for MLE money if it's max years guaranteed and, most importantly, Dame is happy. That last part is huge.

Covington is more of a wildcard with respect to what his agent can land him. He's more valuable than Blazers fans seem to be willing to admit, but he's also 31. If this team appears to be going nowhere, a contender poaching him doesn't seem unrealistic - especially when you look at the Blazers' cap situation.

But even if Olshey pulls off some magic and gets Nurkić/Covington to re-sign for reasonable or even cheap contracts, you're still looking at bringing back the same core, with the only hope of reaching the next level being Simons, Little, and Brown.

[HoopsFanAZ]

Working the Markkanen deal showed Olshey [J Allen] was ready for being a repeater taxpayer if necessary … taking back MORE into tax land … then got the more financially prudent, ready, and better player in Nance. It sounds like the deal took a bit of time to come together, and Olshey pulled off a 2nd “Covington deal.” That he’s being patient on a Nurkic extension is also a smart move for keeping his options open.

A CJ trade is the needle mover. The peripheral moves look done. Has there been a press conference that signaled being “done” for now?

[Village Idiot]

A CJ trade is the needle mover. The peripheral moves look done. Has there been a press conference that signaled being “done” for now?

I've been thinking the same thing. No press conference is a pretty good indicator that the off-season is not done. May this is just wishful thinking but I feel like more and more things point towards a CJ + for Ben Simmons deal.

[GEE]

My feelings exactly AZ... It also seems we are in a game of chicken with both GMs holding off on making the CJ for Simmons deal. Olshey knows Simmons will never suit up in Sixers gear again (Simmons has said as much) and MUST have CJ for Simmons on the table. While Morey is gambling that Dame will ask out before training camp, when Simmons is due to report. Seems logical enough. Thing is... Dame WILL likely report so the pressure is going to be on Morey, and I think we could achieve the deal, if Olshey (and Dame) want to.

GET - IT - DONE Olshey! Convince him how much better CJ would be for the Sixers vs. Simmons. It's a great deal. Period. Makes both teams better, and puts both players involved in much better situations for success. CJ, 2022 FRP, 2023 PickSwap ==for== Simmons. GET - IT - DONE, and announce that presser.

Also... The more I look at it, the Chriss signing may end up looking genius. If Dame takes him under like he did with Nurkic, as a second (big)little brother, he could really mesh well. I've never questioned Chriss' talent or bbiq; he has loads of both, and if he can just give us 15-20 solid minute a night backing up Nurkic... Genius??? If CJ for Simmons went down...

Dame / Simons
Powell / Little
ROCO
Simmons / Nance Jr.
Nurkic / Chriss

Reserves: DSJ / Mac / Cj / GB3 / Zeller

This squad has some real potential IMO.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

There is the very real possibility that analytic minded Morey just does not see much value in a scorer like CJ, who has always been criticized in those circles. Even around here CJ has not escaped criticism, it would seem the majority of even Blazer fans want to move him and don't see him as that valuable to winning.

You see that attitude taken even further all over here, with tons of posters saying CJ is a negative value. And lets face it, CJ is not cheap or young anymore so if you already question his added value as a player then it follows you might stay away from him. So if Morey is one of those that sees CJ as a straight up negative asset at his salary, age and game style then no amount of our secondary assets would really move the needle on a Simmons trade.

I just want to point out that the same reasons we want to trade CJ are the same reasons why another GM might not want to trade for him and why the Blazers may fail to trade CJ for Simmons despite us really wanting it.

[monopoman]

There is the very real possibility that analytic minded Morey just does not see much value in a scorer like CJ, who has always been criticized in those circles. Even around here CJ has not escaped criticism, it would seem the majority of even Blazer fans want to move him and don't see him as that valuable to winning.

You see that attitude taken even further all over here, with tons of posters saying CJ is a negative value. And lets face it, CJ is not cheap or young anymore so if you already question his added value as a player then it follows you might stay away from him. So if Morey is one of those that sees CJ as a straight up negative asset at his salary, age and game style then no amount of our secondary assets would really move the needle on a Simmons trade.

I just want to point out that the same reasons we want to trade CJ are the same reasons why another GM might not want to trade for him and why the Blazers may fail to trade CJ for Simmons despite us really wanting it.

I think the sticking point is Morey demands picks+CJ for Simmons and Olshey refuses. I can see his point, I also feel that CJ would do better giving a primary scorer option, he has had some of his best games statistically when Dame sits.

I'm not saying CJ is some amazing 1st option without Dame but he has looked a good chunk better when Dame sits and he is given the main man role. I also will point out Simmons is a flawed player, his value has only come down each year he is in the league. While, Simmons for CJ would have been a pipe dream 3 years ago that is no longer the case.

I also have a hard time seeing a team that would benefit more from CJ than the Sixers, they have a great C that can create his own shot but outside of that they are iffy in that regard.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

There is the very real possibility that analytic minded Morey just does not see much value in a scorer like CJ, who has always been criticized in those circles. Even around here CJ has not escaped criticism, it would seem the majority of even Blazer fans want to move him and don't see him as that valuable to winning.

You see that attitude taken even further all over here, with tons of posters saying CJ is a negative value. And lets face it, CJ is not cheap or young anymore so if you already question his added value as a player then it follows you might stay away from him. So if Morey is one of those that sees CJ as a straight up negative asset at his salary, age and game style then no amount of our secondary assets would really move the needle on a Simmons trade.

I just want to point out that the same reasons we want to trade CJ are the same reasons why another GM might not want to trade for him and why the Blazers may fail to trade CJ for Simmons despite us really wanting it.

I think the sticking point is Morey demands picks+CJ for Simmons and Olshey refuses. I can see his point, I also feel that CJ would do better giving a primary scorer option, he has had some of his best games statistically when Dame sits.

I'm not saying CJ is some amazing 1st option without Dame but he has looked a good chunk better when Dame sits and he is given the main man role. I also will point out Simmons is a flawed player, his value has only come down each year he is in the league. While, Simmons for CJ would have been a pipe dream 3 years ago that is no longer the case.

I also have a hard time seeing a team that would benefit more from CJ than the Sixers, they have a great C that can create his own shot but outside of that they are iffy in that regard.

No need to convince me, in addition to his ability to create I think CJ would bring some much needed maturity and leadership to that locker room. Allowing that we have a bias for the Blazers I think that swap would make both teams better.

The picks are difficult since we now owe one to Chicago but if its that close then I hope Olshey can get it done. My main worry is that CJ is just too hard a sell for Morey that all the picks and prospects like Little/Simons don't even close that gap.

[Case2012]

Trading away future picks obviously limits how we can improve the team going forward, but NOT using them also limits our ability to improve the team... Just do it already. It's a moot point if we don't improve and Dame asks out... At that point we're going to recoup those picks moving him. Obviously those picks won't be as good as our own in a rebuild but we need to take some frigging risk for once and push the chips in. If we can move CJ and 3 firsts for Simmons, just do it. There's no else out there that's gonna move the needle and urgency should be the priority. We didn't trade for Butler, pg, harden, or Holiday when we had the chance. Draymond or Beal would be great but I don't see them asking out. It was interesting seeing them both at dames wedding but it's hard to imagine them forcing a trade here. Simmons is the move.

[BlazersBroncos]

My feelings exactly AZ... It also seems we are in a game of chicken with both GMs holding off on making the CJ for Simmons deal. Olshey knows Simmons will never suit up in Sixers gear again (Simmons has said as much) and MUST have CJ for Simmons on the table. While Morey is gambling that Dame will ask out before training camp, when Simmons is due to report. Seems logical enough. Thing is... Dame WILL likely report so the pressure is going to be on Morey, and I think we could achieve the deal, if Olshey (and Dame) want to.

GET - IT - DONE Olshey! Convince him how much better CJ would be for the Sixers vs. Simmons. It's a great deal. Period. Makes both teams better, and puts both players involved in much better situations for success. CJ, 2022 FRP, 2023 PickSwap ==for== Simmons. GET - IT - DONE, and announce that presser.

Also... The more I look at it, the Chriss signing may end up looking genius. If Dame takes him under like he did with Nurkic, as a second (big)little brother, he could really mesh well. I've never questioned Chriss' talent or bbiq; he has loads of both, and if he can just give us 15-20 solid minute a night backing up Nurkic... Genius??? If CJ for Simmons went down...

Dame / Simons
Powell / Little
ROCO
Simmons / Nance Jr.
Nurkic / Chriss

Reserves: DSJ / Mac / Cj / GB3 / Zeller

This squad has some real potential IMO.

The idea of Chriss, much like DSJ, is much more appealing than the reality of Chriss. There isnt a chance he beats Zeller out. Cody sets really good screens and knows his limitations, two things Chriss simply doesnt possess. Zeller is very underrated passer too (2APG in 20MPG for a low usage C is really good)

[Wizenheimer]

I think the sticking point is Morey demands picks+CJ for Simmons and Olshey refuses. I can see his point, I also feel that CJ would do better giving a primary scorer option, he has had some of his best games statistically when Dame sits..

those stats have been referenced repeatedly, at least the raw scoring stats for CJ without Dame have. The context that is usually missing, is that to post those scoring averages, CJ's usage rate has been north of 37% and his FGA have been north of 24 a game. For reference, Dame's usage was 31% or lower, normally, and only two players in the last 15 years have topped 23FGA/game, Harden and Westbrook

another bit of context that is often un-mentioned is that Portland's record when CJ was posting those numbers was around a game or two over .500, last time I saw it posted. For reference, Portland's record when Dame was playing without CJ was around .720, again, last I saw it posted. Which brings up the very relevant point that with all the chatter about how CJ plays without Dame, there's no comparative chatter about how Dame plays without CJ, or how Portland plays in that case. Dame has broad shoulders and carries the team to better records and the playoffs. Meanwhile, it seems CJ's shoulders are very narrow and the only thing he carries on them is his own numbers

the only way CJ would post those kind of numbers on another team is if he's traded to a trash team and can dominate the ball and usage. If he's traded with a good team, like Philly for instance, he's have to share scoring opportunities with Embiid and Harris. He would very likely have fewer FGA's and less usage than he does on Portland

I'm not saying CJ is some amazing 1st option without Dame but he has looked a good chunk better when Dame sits and he is given the main man role. I also will point out Simmons is a flawed player, his value has only come down each year he is in the league. While, Simmons for CJ would have been a pipe dream 3 years ago that is no longer the case.

I also have a hard time seeing a team that would benefit more from CJ than the Sixers, they have a great C that can create his own shot but outside of that they are iffy in that regard.

to start with the cost of a potential trade for Simmons: if Olshey was willing to trade Ariza + two 1sts for RoCo; and Jones + a 1st for Nance (plus obligate 7 years of 1sts to the terms of that trade; and is unwilling to include a 1st, or two, in a CJ for Simmons trade...he's an even bigger idiot that I believe, and that's saying a lot

this leaves everything resting on Billups having a bad of magic beans, because Portland is very likely to go into next season with the same starting lineup that got boat-raced by an injured Denver team. Maybe the bench is a little better, but if it is it's only marginally better. So Olshey's obvious bet is that Billups, in his 1st year of being a head coach, and only his 2nd year of coaching, can be significantly better than Stotts in his 25th year of coaching. Maybe he will be. Maybe Billups will be a player>coach in the mold of Pat Riley rather than in the mold of Maurice Cheeks. It just seems like a weak bet with Dame making the noises he's making

and yes, there's a risk attached to trading for Simmons. But I think most of the risk is on one side of the equation. I do not believe Portland would be risking much by trading CJ, especially not with Powell signed for 5 years. Much like the minimal risk Golden State incurred when they traded Monta Ellis with Klay waiting in the wings. Again, CJ's shoulders are too narrow to make for a big loss

the risk would be if Simmons can get his head screwed back on right. Yeah, he has a major flaw in his shooting game. But he'd be coming to a team that has Dame as leader, Billups as a PG-whisperer, plus vets like RoCo and Powell to help in the transition. The chance that Simmons could turn into Portland's version of Draymond Green is well worth taking the risk

Simmons has all-league talent notwithstanding his flaw. He's an all-league defender who finished 2nd in DPOY voting. More is that he can defend at an all-league level on both the perimeter or in the paint; he can defend all 5 positions. He's good setting screens. And of course he's give Portland a second elite passer and facilitator

it's obvious Olshey wants the status quo and to prove himself right about the "roster not being the problem". His massive ego got bruised from all the pushback he got for that assertion. I have such a low opinion of him that I'd believe he attached 7 years of 1st round obligations on the nance trade just so he can point to that and say the Blazers didn't have the assets to get a Simmons trade done. Excuse me, I've got to go to the store now and buy more tin-foil

[GEE]

I think the sticking point is Morey demands picks+CJ for Simmons and Olshey refuses. I can see his point, I also feel that CJ would do better giving a primary scorer option, he has had some of his best games statistically when Dame sits..

those stats have been referenced repeatedly, at least the raw scoring stats for CJ without Dame have. The context that is usually missing, is that to post those scoring averages, CJ's usage rate has been north of 37% and his FGA have been north of 24 a game. For reference, Dame's usage was 31% or lower, normally, and only two players in the last 15 years have topped 23FGA/game, Harden and Westbrook

another bit of context that is often un-mentioned is that Portland's record when CJ was posting those numbers was around a game or two over .500, last time I saw it posted. For reference, Portland's record when Dame was playing without CJ was around .720, again, last I saw it posted. Which brings up the very relevant point that with all the chatter about how CJ plays without Dame, there's no comparative chatter about how Dame plays without CJ, or how Portland plays in that case. Dame has broad shoulders and carries the team to better records and the playoffs. Meanwhile, it seems CJ's shoulders are very narrow and the only thing he carries on them is his own numbers

the only way CJ would post those kind of numbers on another team is if he's traded to a trash team and can dominate the ball and usage. If he's traded with a good team, like Philly for instance, he's have to share scoring opportunities with Embiid and Harris. He would very likely have fewer FGA's and less usage than he does on Portland

I'm not saying CJ is some amazing 1st option without Dame but he has looked a good chunk better when Dame sits and he is given the main man role. I also will point out Simmons is a flawed player, his value has only come down each year he is in the league. While, Simmons for CJ would have been a pipe dream 3 years ago that is no longer the case.

I also have a hard time seeing a team that would benefit more from CJ than the Sixers, they have a great C that can create his own shot but outside of that they are iffy in that regard.

to start with the cost of a potential trade for Simmons: if Olshey was willing to trade Ariza + two 1sts for RoCo; and Jones + a 1st for Nance (plus obligate 7 years of 1sts to the terms of that trade; and is unwilling to include a 1st, or two, in a CJ for Simmons trade...he's an even bigger idiot that I believe, and that's saying a lot

this leaves everything resting on Billups having a bad of magic beans, because Portland is very likely to go into next season with the same starting lineup that got boat-raced by an injured Denver team. Maybe the bench is a little better, but if it is it's only marginally better. So Olshey's obvious bet is that Billups, in his 1st year of being a head coach, and only his 2nd year of coaching, can be significantly better than Stotts in his 25th year of coaching. Maybe he will be. Maybe Billups will be a player>coach in the mold of Pat Riley rather than in the mold of Maurice Cheeks. It just seems like a weak bet with Dame making the noises he's making

and yes, there's a risk attached to trading for Simmons. But I think most of the risk is on one side of the equation. I do not believe Portland would be risking much by trading CJ, especially not with Powell signed for 5 years. Much like the minimal risk Golden State incurred when they traded Monta Ellis with Klay waiting in the wings. Again, CJ's shoulders are too narrow to make for a big loss

the risk would be if Simmons can get his head screwed back on right. Yeah, he has a major flaw in his shooting game. But he'd be coming to a team that has Dame as leader, Billups as a PG-whisperer, plus vets like RoCo and Powell to help in the transition. The chance that Simmons could turn into Portland's version of Draymond Green is well worth taking the risk

Simmons has all-league talent notwithstanding his flaw. He's an all-league defender who finished 2nd in DPOY voting. More is that he can defend at an all-league level on both the perimeter or in the paint; he can defend all 5 positions. He's good setting screens. And of course he's give Portland a second elite passer and facilitator

it's obvious Olshey wants the status quo and to prove himself right about the "roster not being the problem". His massive ego got bruised from all the pushback he got for that assertion. I have such a low opinion of him that I'd believe he attached 7 years of 1st round obligations on the nance trade just so he can point to that and say the Blazers didn't have the assets to get a Simmons trade done. Excuse me, I've got to go to the store now and buy more tin-foil

I guess I'll be needing some of that tinfoil as well, because I agree with you 1000%. As far as CJ's production though, I just think he's been really good, considering he's in a fairly horrible situation here. I want this deal done for CJ's sake as well. I could see his career taking a huge leap if traded to Philly, whereas staying in Portland, he'll remain THE PROBLEM.

Bottom line... Great trade for both players, and both teams involved. GM's egos are holding things up.