DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 (FINAL poll reset)

[Zenzibar]

Knicks - 2 guard Quentin Grimes

[cupcakesnake]

Brook Lopez has made the most impressive turnaround of a career i can think of since joining Milwaukee.
His reputation was that of a dinosaur who can't defend, can't rebound and can only score in the paint (ok with elite post game).
He's the best rim protector in the game and he's (by far) the guy who has made box outs a joy to watch.
He's responsible for at least 20 boards of his team any given night.
I leave aside his offensive game and shooting in particular.
Very impressive. Nice guy too.

I think it's one of the cooler career trajectories we've seen. A player basically inverting his strengths and weaknesses over the course of his career.

I used to think of him as mini-Yao. An unstoppable turnaround shooter with a strong base. Tall near the rim but slow in space. He was more of a scoring specialist than an offensive hub because he wasn't a good passer. Really good shooting range but not out to 3.

This season he's averaging 3 blocks, making a DPOY case, and shooting 40% from the field. He never calls his own number on offense unless Bud wants to attack a matchup (if you try to ignore Brook in the playoffs he can pile up points still).

[benhillboy]

I don’t see Annuboy much but I’ve never really been as impressed as most. The tracking stats are great no doubt but he’s a rich man’s Dort IMO. He’s 20th in defensive plays per foul.

Donovan Mitchell amazingly seems to be one of the slick catalysts for Cleveland’s rating at best, never hurting at worst. 108 for him seemed impossible judging by his Utah years.

If GS turns it around (which is likely) Draymond will be right back in the Top 3 as usual with good reason. Poole kills them so much.

Brook seems like the clear cut favorite at this moment.

[Bobbymcgee]

My vote goes to Jose Alvarado of the Pelicans.

[benhillboy]

My vote goes to Jose Alvarado of the Pelicans.

I always view him and Herb as a package deal lol. Jose Jones.

[lobosloboslobos]

5 more steals for OG last night. He played 44 minutes and was a +5, yet the Raps lost the game by 4. The only 4 minutes he was off the floor they were outscored by 9.

[cupcakesnake]

I don’t see Annuboy much but I’ve never really been as impressed as most. The tracking stats are great no doubt but he’s a rich man’s Dort IMO. He’s 20th in defensive plays per foul.

Dort if he was 6'8" with 7'2" arms and the best help defense of any non-big man.

Also Dort is an excellent defender. Rich man's Dort sounds like a strong DPOY candidate.

[benhillboy]

I don’t see Annuboy much but I’ve never really been as impressed as most. The tracking stats are great no doubt but he’s a rich man’s Dort IMO. He’s 20th in defensive plays per foul.

Dort if he was 6'8" with 7'2" arms and the best help defense of any non-big man.

Also Dort is an excellent defender. Rich man's Dort sounds like an MVP candidate.

I had no idea Anunoby was 6’8” until I checked after I said this lol. He crouches so low and fits into tight spots. I wouldn’t automatically criticize his rebounding not knowing the Raptors’ scheme but on it’s face its quite underwhelming given his size. I watched Barnes pick up Trae Young full court for the better part of two games (once with beautiful results) and thought Nurse was making a conscious effort to reduce OGs workload, something you wouldn’t do with a player of his age and zest for defending. As you said though OG likes a taste of guarding the whole damn team.

What’s up with Barnes anyway? He has the worst rating on the Raptors with all those damn tools.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

5 more steals for OG last night. He played 44 minutes and was a +5, yet the Raps lost the game by 4. The only 4 minutes he was off the floor they were outscored by 9.

This is crazy, I had no idea he would become this steal machine type of player after his first few years in the league. I remember his first year he wouldn't even try to block shots, it was weird.

[Mikistan]

I don’t see Annuboy much but I’ve never really been as impressed as most. The tracking stats are great no doubt but he’s a rich man’s Dort IMO. He’s 20th in defensive plays per foul.

Dort if he was 6'8" with 7'2" arms and the best help defense of any non-big man.

Also Dort is an excellent defender. Rich man's Dort sounds like an MVP candidate.

I had no idea Anunoby was 6’8” until I checked after I said this lol. He crouches so low and fits into tight spots. I wouldn’t automatically criticize his rebounding not knowing the Raptors’ scheme but on it’s face its quite underwhelming given his size. I watched Barnes pick up Trae Young full court for the better part of two games (once with beautiful results) and thought Nurse was making a conscious effort to reduce OGs workload, something you wouldn’t do with a player of his age and zest for defending. As you said though OG likes a taste of guarding the whole damn team.

What’s up with Barnes anyway? He has the worst rating on the Raptors with all those damn tools.

Barnes has poor lateral quick and his defensive stance is piss poor. He doesn't get low enough and keeps his arms down by his thighs on d, then for some reason will step up 28 feet from the basket just to get blown by on straight line actions. As a help defender this year he doesn't commit to rim protection or blocks, for some reason he is happy to stand straight up verticality but not jump and will at times set up to take charges on a telegraphed way in the paint and opponents will just go around him which he's still standing in charge-stance without snapping out of it to adjust to the offensive player's counter.

[cupcakesnake]

Dort if he was 6'8" with 7'2" arms and the best help defense of any non-big man.

Also Dort is an excellent defender. Rich man's Dort sounds like an MVP candidate.

I had no idea Anunoby was 6’8” until I checked after I said this lol. He crouches so low and fits into tight spots. I wouldn’t automatically criticize his rebounding not knowing the Raptors’ scheme but on it’s face its quite underwhelming given his size. I watched Barnes pick up Trae Young full court for the better part of two games (once with beautiful results) and thought Nurse was making a conscious effort to reduce OGs workload, something you wouldn’t do with a player of his age and zest for defending. As you said though OG likes a taste of guarding the whole damn team.

What’s up with Barnes anyway? He has the worst rating on the Raptors with all those damn tools.

Barnes has poor lateral quick and his defensive stance is piss poor. He doesn't get low enough and keeps his arms down by his thighs on d, then for some reason will step up 28 feet from the basket just to get blown by on straight line actions. As a help defender this year he doesn't commit to rim protection or blocks, for some reason he is happy to stand straight up verticality but not jump and will at times set up to take charges on a telegraphed way in the paint and opponents will just go around him which he's still standing in charge-stance without snapping out of it to adjust to the offensive player's counter.

Mikistan:
I agree in broad strokes with this Barnes analysis but think it's become a bit overstated. I don't think he has "poor" lateral quickness, I think many assumed he had elite laterally quicks and then were disappointed when it turns out they were just solid. Barnes covers ground more with strike length and hip flexibility rather than super quick feet. He's vulnerable to the first step, like you say on straight-line actions. He's not the Raptors best option on quick guards. Nurse likes to put Barnes length at the top and try to break up the initial action. I also think Barnes has looked a little banged up this year with those knee and ankle injuries. I think Scottie Barnes is more of B+ at everything on defense rather than being crazy standout in one area. Rim protection, switchability, versatility, help, point of attack, etc.

benhillboy:
I think it's fair to criticize OG's rebounding. Why not. I would point out the Raps are a better rebounding team with him on the floor by a decent amount this year. He does add strength and athleticism in the paint, and he's disciplined on box outs, but I'm not sure he has big rebounding responsibilities otherwise. The Raps get it done by committee more than relying on a center that they don't have.
I don't think seeing OG not guarding the primary ballhandler all the time is indicative of Nurse "resting" him. The biggest difference in OG's defense this year is that he has much larger responsibilities than just being an on-ball guy. OG has been ridiculously disruptive in passing lanes this year. He leads the league in steals, loose balls recovered, and is .1 away from leading in deflections. Nurse loves to put OG on the weakside, where he can lurk and disrupt the whole side of the court. This is insanely valuable in Nurse's system because he like to overload the strong side. The most typical counter to that is quick passing to the weakside, where the Raps have OG waiting. I think when Nurse's defense is working, you see 2 on the ball strong side forcing that pass, and OG is just picking them off for easy transition opportunities. Toronto survived all those injuries by turning OG's defense into offense.

[JayMKE]

Lopez has been absolutely ridiculous this season, Bud adjusted the defense finally so they're not overhelping in the paint and sticking on the perimeter so Brook isn't getting cooked on the drop as much. If he can stay healthy and maintain this over the whole season he's the DPOTY but that's a big if obviously. Brook really is one of the most talented bigs in the league

[PennSports]

Embiid is not getting enough buzz. Leading a top 5 defense when the 2nd best defensive player on the team is 6'1 DeAnthony Melton. Thybulle not even getting minutes this year.

[Hoop Heavy]

Read on Twitter

Tatum has looked amazing this year.


The Cs have looked really good (but looked ordinary against Golden State yesterday) even without the TL. Tatum, Brown, Smart - lots of great D.

[MrGoat]

Dallas' defense fell from 11th place to 20th place after just one game without Luka anchoring the defense. There's your DPOY

[benhillboy]

I had no idea Anunoby was 6’8” until I checked after I said this lol. He crouches so low and fits into tight spots. I wouldn’t automatically criticize his rebounding not knowing the Raptors’ scheme but on it’s face its quite underwhelming given his size. I watched Barnes pick up Trae Young full court for the better part of two games (once with beautiful results) and thought Nurse was making a conscious effort to reduce OGs workload, something you wouldn’t do with a player of his age and zest for defending. As you said though OG likes a taste of guarding the whole damn team.

What’s up with Barnes anyway? He has the worst rating on the Raptors with all those damn tools.

Barnes has poor lateral quick and his defensive stance is piss poor. He doesn't get low enough and keeps his arms down by his thighs on d, then for some reason will step up 28 feet from the basket just to get blown by on straight line actions. As a help defender this year he doesn't commit to rim protection or blocks, for some reason he is happy to stand straight up verticality but not jump and will at times set up to take charges on a telegraphed way in the paint and opponents will just go around him which he's still standing in charge-stance without snapping out of it to adjust to the offensive player's counter.

Mikistan:
I agree in broad strokes with this Barnes analysis but think it's become a bit overstated. I don't think he has "poor" lateral quickness, I think many assumed he had elite laterally quicks and then were disappointed when it turns out they were just solid. Barnes covers ground more with strike length and hip flexibility rather than super quick feet. He's vulnerable to the first step, like you say on straight-line actions. He's not the Raptors best option on quick guards. Nurse likes to put Barnes length at the top and try to break up the initial action. I also think Barnes has looked a little banged up this year with those knee and ankle injuries. I think Scottie Barnes is more of B+ at everything on defense rather than being crazy standout in one area. Rim protection, switchability, versatility, help, point of attack, etc.

benhillboy:
I think it's fair to criticize OG's rebounding. Why not. I would point out the Raps are a better rebounding team with him on the floor by a decent amount this year. He does add strength and athleticism in the paint, and he's disciplined on box outs, but I'm not sure he has big rebounding responsibilities otherwise. The Raps get it done by committee more than relying on a center that they don't have.
I don't think seeing OG not guarding the primary ballhandler all the time is indicative of Nurse "resting" him. The biggest difference in OG's defense this year is that he has much larger responsibilities than just being an on-ball guy. OG has been ridiculously disruptive in passing lanes this year. He leads the league in steals, loose balls recovered, and is .1 away from leading in deflections. Nurse loves to put OG on the weakside, where he can lurk and disrupt the whole side of the court. This is insanely valuable in Nurse's system because he like to overload the strong side. The most typical counter to that is quick passing to the weakside, where the Raps have OG waiting. I think when Nurse's defense is working, you see 2 on the ball strong side forcing that pass, and OG is just picking them off for easy transition opportunities. Toronto survived all those injuries by turning OG's defense into offense.

Appreciate it bro. Analysis of this depth isn’t the norm here lol.

[benhillboy]

Dort if he was 6'8" with 7'2" arms and the best help defense of any non-big man.

Also Dort is an excellent defender. Rich man's Dort sounds like an MVP candidate.

I had no idea Anunoby was 6’8” until I checked after I said this lol. He crouches so low and fits into tight spots. I wouldn’t automatically criticize his rebounding not knowing the Raptors’ scheme but on it’s face its quite underwhelming given his size. I watched Barnes pick up Trae Young full court for the better part of two games (once with beautiful results) and thought Nurse was making a conscious effort to reduce OGs workload, something you wouldn’t do with a player of his age and zest for defending. As you said though OG likes a taste of guarding the whole damn team.

What’s up with Barnes anyway? He has the worst rating on the Raptors with all those damn tools.

Barnes has poor lateral quick and his defensive stance is piss poor. He doesn't get low enough and keeps his arms down by his thighs on d, then for some reason will step up 28 feet from the basket just to get blown by on straight line actions. As a help defender this year he doesn't commit to rim protection or blocks, for some reason he is happy to stand straight up verticality but not jump and will at times set up to take charges on a telegraphed way in the paint and opponents will just go around him which he's still standing in charge-stance without snapping out of it to adjust to the offensive player's counter.

Lol now you mention it he does run out to the point of attack all wild to foul or get blown by with no C help.

I saw him versus the Hawks were he was a +32 and I just assumed he was gonna maintain a high level of play having reached the next level of his progression. It seems that was his best game of the season by far. He was hitting threes and making PG level plays. He forced Trae off the ball all game. And I’m the farthest possible thing away from a Trae young fan but that’s very impressive for a guy of Barnes’ size to bottle Young’s triple threat.

[Roger Murdock]

Seems like Lopez and OG are first team locks at this point. Who else?

I think Mobley deserves credit as a 1st or 2nd team guy.
I think Tatum will make 1st team.
JJJ if healthy long enough?
AD?
Giannis is a staple pick

Thats 7 of 10 potential names. Who else might get in?

[BugginOut]

Keep an eye on the Knicks young guards

Immanuel Quickley, Miles McBride and Quentin Grimes have turned the Knicks into a top 10 defense

[LoveMyRaps]

Keep an eye on the Knicks young guards

Immanuel Quickley, Miles McBride and Quentin Grimes have turned the Knicks into a top 10 defense

Quickley has been playing defense?