How far does Jokic have to take the Nuggets this season?

[Exp0sed]

finally the Nuggets are coming out as an ensable even without him (of course the ceiling w/o him is different). I'll cheer for them in the PS.
MVP + title would be amazing for the franchise

yeah, their first championship ever would be great for the franchise
hard to argue against that

[AdagioPace]

finally the Nuggets are coming out as an ensable even without him (of course the ceiling w/o him is different). I'll cheer for them in the PS.
MVP + title would be amazing for the franchise

yeah, their first championship ever would be great for the franchise
hard to argue against that

sometimes it's hard to express excitement for something without being too predictable lol . I think the Nuggets mood right now is rather : "let's go with the flow". (but It would be itneresting to know from the fanbase if they believe in something big this season)

[ShaqAttac]

ppl saying the nuggs gotta make the wcf or final, but does jokic's teammates kinda mid

[jokeboy86]

I’d say at least the Finals if the Nuggets stay healthy. I wouldnt be surprised if they didnt make it though because as others have said his #2 and #3 options are Murray/MPJ. Also right now the West is deceiving because there are teams with great duos that are struggling or one of those players are hurt who to me could be very dangerous to play in the playoffs. Like NO(Zion/Ingram), LAC(Kawhi/George) and even LAL(AD/Lebron). The Warriors and Suns would scare me too as a Nuggets fan because they havent been healthy and been struggling but you know the talent is there. I think the best thing the Nuggets have going for them, and you can include the Grizzlies as well, is their chemistry.

[eyeatoma]

With gsw struggling, I don’t really see what the excuse would be if they don’t at least make the finals.

At some point he should start to be held to the same standard that every elite player has been held to and criticized for not meeting. Jokic seems to be the only player, at this elite of a level, to never get held to that same standard that other guys get killed for.

Yup preach. He's been gifted the excuse of roster for 3 years. Time to win the chip for me at this point. Apart from Memphis there is not competition for them in the West, maybe the Pels, but Zion's availability is not guaranteed.

It'll be a Nuggets-Boston/Bucks/Philly finals.

[eyeatoma]

The dude has the least critical fan base.

It's disgusting at this point.

[eyeatoma]

WCF at minimum. Finals loss would obviously be soul crushing. Not expecting a chip but fingers crossed..

He already made it to the WCF... Needs to be better than that.

[sam_I_am]

I have posted this elsewhere but Jokic and Nash are the only 2 time MVPs never to reach the finals. No 3 time MVP has never won a ring. MVPs who won 3 in a row - Bird (3 finals and 2 rings), Wilt (2 finals, 1 ring), Russell (3 finals, 3 rings). All 3 of those guys made all NBA defensive teams and won finals MVPs too. Magic, Jordan, Kareem, Lebron and Moses are the only other 3 time MVPs in history.

Only Westbrook and Moses Malone are MVPs with prior first round knockouts during MVP season. I think he absolutely should not get MVP this season because of first round knockout last year and lack of playoff success. It may be unfair especially given success of Denver so far this season but Jokic should be robbed of MVP this year because he doesn’t belong on the 3 MVP pedestal until he leads a team to a title.

He has already secured his place in history winning 2.

[Exp0sed]

WCF at minimum. Finals loss would obviously be soul crushing. Not expecting a chip but fingers crossed..

He already made it to the WCF... Needs to be better than that.

MVPiid is the best scorer ever and the best Center in the league
his squad is ridiclously stacked (better than the Joker's that's for sure)

so by your logic, would u agree that anything short of a finals appearence would be a failure by the 76ers?

[Blame Rasho]

He is a mofo and I think the finals should be a reasonable expectation given that he has been to the wcf. You can say that to any bus driver who has taken their team to the wcw or ecf and fallen short of the finals. You always want to achieve more.

[psimanic1]

It all depends on roster health, if everyone is healthy they should ATLEAST get to WCF and if they lose it cant be in 4 0 or 4 1 fashion. Any team that comes to the finala they are there for a reason. If Denver gets to WCF with GSW for example, you cant have as favourites against defending champs, and if GSW gets to WCF they are probably healthy and back to being great team.

I think that biggest issue with Nuggets, besides injuried, could be coach Malone.

And I think that biggest issue with giving Jokic his 3rd MVP is that if he wins FMVP also, you dont have anything against him when he comes for his 4th MVP in a row, and Nuggets probably have best chance in history to actually win it all, if there are no huge injuries that would sideline some players for whole round or more.

[Bum Adebayo]

WCF at minimum. Finals loss would obviously be soul crushing. Not expecting a chip but fingers crossed..

He already made it to the WCF... Needs to be better than that.

MVPiid is the best scorer ever and the best Center in the league
his squad is ridiclously stacked (better than the Joker's that's for sure)

so by your logic, would u agree that anything short of a finals appearence would be a failure by the 76ers?

It has already been a failure for many years, it wouldn't be any different if it happens again this year. We are 2nd round fodder king.

[dautjazz]

It's not unreasonable to say that he's the been the best player in the league this season, especially given the injuries to some other players. But for that to stick and for all of his detractors to finally STFU, the Nuggets will have to win a championship.

Even if that happens there will be clowns not giving him his due. Whatever, I don't think he really cares anyway.

That's not how it works. Who on the 2004 Pistons was the best player in the world? Was Igoudala or Curry better than Lebron in 2015 because they won? Best player on the best team is just that, nothing more, nothing less.

[LightTheBeam]

I think it's got to be finals or bust.

Gsw, Lakers, clippers are all struggling to find consistency.
Pelicans/Kings are new kids on the block

Leaving Memphis as the main competition.

Lots of talk about jokic not having a legit #2. Ja has Bane/JJJ as his #2. Think that just speaks to the west right now. Teams are stronger 3-8, while maybe being a little weaker at #2. This holds true for even the warriors last year, who was their #2? Wiggins? Hobbled klay? Poole? Draymond? Are those 4 really better than Gordon, MPJ, Murray, KCP?

Hes got it set up to make the finals. He's got a deep team. 7 guys scoring in double figures. 4 guys averaging 16+

Finals or bust

[velkisimo]

With gsw struggling, I don’t really see what the excuse would be if they don’t at least make the finals.

At some point he should start to be held to the same standard that every elite player has been held to and criticized for not meeting. Jokic seems to be the only player, at this elite of a level, to never get held to that same standard that other guys get killed for.

Yup preach. He's been gifted the excuse of roster for 3 years. Time to win the chip for me at this point. Apart from Memphis there is not competition for them in the West, maybe the Pels, but Zion's availability is not guaranteed.

It'll be a Nuggets-Boston/Bucks/Philly finals.

Realists would say he has been cursed with bad roster / injuries. Haters would say he has been gifted with excuses. Not that we needed this to know which group you are part of lol.

His team is healthy. Anything leas than a final should be a disappointment.

[Saints14]

With gsw struggling, I don’t really see what the excuse would be if they don’t at least make the finals.

At some point he should start to be held to the same standard that every elite player has been held to and criticized for not meeting. Jokic seems to be the only player, at this elite of a level, to never get held to that same standard that other guys get killed for.

Well he (fairly, IMO) gets a pass the past 2 postseasons for Murray being out and the roster around him generally being trash. I don't think you can point to any postseason run Denver has had with Jokic and say they've underachieved. Their last healthy postseason, they made the WCF. Each of the past 3 years they've lost to the team that won the west, and were underdogs all 3 times. This is definitely the year though. If Denver ends up being the top seed, anything less than a finals appearance will be a disappointment and Jokic will deserve some heat for that...especially if his defense ends up being a major factor in them losing

[kenwood3333]

It really depends on how much of a drag his teammates are. Jokic is too nice of a teamate to speak out against his teammate's poor plays.

[kuclas]

The real question is can a center lead a team to an nba title

The last real center to win an nba title (and I don’t count Tim Duncan as a real center) was probably Hakeem. You could say shaq but Kobe always had the ball down the stretch and they had to pull shaq off the floor at many key stretches due to poor free throw shooting.

So if Jokic cannot advance at least to the conference finals. It becomes a huge problem for center lead teams. Frankly without Murray help in 2020. Jokic probably be scapegoat into the same embiid category not even getting pass the second round.

So Jokic with his amazing play. If he or all people can’t lead a team to that wcf. It just shows you the nba playoffs relies more on elite wing play than center play. Which is Embiid averaging 30-10 gets swept in first round by Boston in 2020. And Jokic almost get swept 4-1 by golden state despite averaging 31/13/5. Elite center play without elite wings generally no playoff success.

when was the last time the best player in the NBA was a Center?
Giannis is a PF
if we look at MVP as some kind of indication on whose the best player (not synonmous obviously,but for simplicity's sake)
we have to back as far as Shaq's 1999 MVP to find an MVP whose a Center

not to mention, even if some innate stretegic advantage exist, i mean that there is a cap on your ceiling if your best player is a Center, that probably wouldn't apply to the Joker as he is the primary facilitator as well - which is something we have basically never seen before from the Center position

so maybe typical Centers can't get it done but that wouldn't apply to Jokic?

let's put it this way, if u had 9 more Jokic's rn i.e - Centers who can punish smaller players inside and on the glass while also handling the ball, running the break and are very effective at being the primary playmaker - the teams that employ them would be battling each other for the 'chip, same way the Centers of past eras battled each other for 'chips

Jokic is a true unicorn, all that "can't win a 'chip when ur best player is a Center" doesn't apply to him

Well Jokic hasn’t won. And I said if he can’t advance to the conference finals. It’s a big problem.

The best player like lebron James can will a G league roster to nba finals in 2018 with broken down Kevin love as the second best player. That’s tells you all you need to know how important wing play is. I don’t have no clue who the center for Cleveland was at that time? Thompson?

Jokic will soon run out of excuses if he can’t advance further.

The nba mvp is probably the most scrutinized mvp of the four major sports. Because it’s 5 guys on the court. The mvp has the most impact on the court

Unlike 11 guys in football 9 guys in baseball. Hockey has 6 players (but they aren’t on ice for long stretches) soccer has 11 guys also

So the nba mvp is the most important player in the league with the least amount of players on the court

Right now. Denver is one of the top 3 teams in the nba. If Denver is a top 2 seed. Anything less than wcf is failure considering health of the team and Jokic being the nba supposedly best player

That’s why Giannis got crushed by critics when the lost in 2020 and plays a major factor in nba consideration in 2021 and 2022 seasons.

[sam_I_am]

The real question is can a center lead a team to an nba title

The last real center to win an nba title (and I don’t count Tim Duncan as a real center) was probably Hakeem. You could say shaq but Kobe always had the ball down the stretch and they had to pull shaq off the floor at many key stretches due to poor free throw shooting.

So if Jokic cannot advance at least to the conference finals. It becomes a huge problem for center lead teams. Frankly without Murray help in 2020. Jokic probably be scapegoat into the same embiid category not even getting pass the second round.

So Jokic with his amazing play. If he or all people can’t lead a team to that wcf. It just shows you the nba playoffs relies more on elite wing play than center play. Which is Embiid averaging 30-10 gets swept in first round by Boston in 2020. And Jokic almost get swept 4-1 by golden state despite averaging 31/13/5. Elite center play without elite wings generally no playoff success.

when was the last time the best player in the NBA was a Center?
Giannis is a PF
if we look at MVP as some kind of indication on whose the best player (not synonmous obviously,but for simplicity's sake)
we have to back as far as Shaq's 1999 MVP to find an MVP whose a Center

not to mention, even if some innate stretegic advantage exist, i mean that there is a cap on your ceiling if your best player is a Center, that probably wouldn't apply to the Joker as he is the primary facilitator as well - which is something we have basically never seen before from the Center position

so maybe typical Centers can't get it done but that wouldn't apply to Jokic?

let's put it this way, if u had 9 more Jokic's rn i.e - Centers who can punish smaller players inside and on the glass while also handling the ball, running the break and are very effective at being the primary playmaker - the teams that employ them would be battling each other for the 'chip, same way the Centers of past eras battled each other for 'chips

Jokic is a true unicorn, all that "can't win a 'chip when ur best player is a Center" doesn't apply to him

Well Jokic hasn’t won. And I said if he can’t advance to the conference finals. It’s a big problem.

The best player like lebron James can will a G league roster to nba finals in 2018 with broken down Kevin love as the second best player. That’s tells you all you need to know how important wing play is. I don’t have no clue who the center for Cleveland was at that time? Thompson?

Jokic will soon run out of excuses if he can’t advance further.

The nba mvp is probably the most scrutinized mvp of the four major sports. Because it’s 5 guys on the court. The mvp has the most impact on the court

Unlike 11 guys in football 9 guys in baseball. Hockey has 6 players (but they aren’t on ice for long stretches) soccer has 11 guys also

So the nba mvp is the most important player in the league with the least amount of players on the court

Right now. Denver is one of the top 3 teams in the nba. If Denver is a top 2 seed. Anything less than wcf is failure considering health of the team and Jokic being the nba supposedly best player

That’s why Giannis got crushed by critics when the lost in 2020 and plays a major factor in nba consideration in 2021 and 2022 seasons.

If Jokic gets 3rd MVP it’s win a title or bust. Period. If Denver gets erased early and easily again for 3rd straight season it will make a mockery of the award. MVP voting has been flawed many times before ( Kobe, Jordan, Lebron deserved more) but very few winners have had such poor team success as Jokic and certainly no prior triple MVP winner has never not won a title.

[ShulaDon92]

Finals or bust.