Poll: Public sees MJ as GOAT

[ropjhk]

Jordan's flame burned brighter but Lebron's flame has burned more continuously for longer. It's impossible to say which player in NBA history would dominate the most when comparing across eras and stats don't tell the whole story. You have to use it all in evaluating the greats. You need the eye test, stats, style of play for the era, competition level, accomplishments, media narrative, fan narrative, career highlight reel, etc...

For me it's Jordan #1 and Lebron #2. They both separate themselves from everyone else IMO. Jordan gets the edge for me because I value his peak greatness more than Lebron's longevity. Jordan has by far the best career prime in NBA history. Perhaps even sports history. I'm also more impressed with Jordan's accomplishments over Lebron's. I hold Lebron in very high regard but the NBA GOAT title has got to be one of the hardest to obtain. A player needs to have a near perfect career in order to dethrone Jordan and Lebron has too many down moments in his prime to overcome Jordan. Failing to win a 3peat in Miami is the thing that hurts Lebron's case the most in my book.

[CharityStripe34]

I like Kareem's take on the subject. "We'll never know." The more time passes there will be other guys who come around and are incredibly dominant and headline a generation. As time passes it'll be hard to discern between eras.

[MagicFan12345]

The poll was done after LeBron became the all-time scoring leader last week.

The pollster is Public Policy Polling, and they spoke with 1,056 registered voters. See the last paragraph at this link:

https://www.publicpolicypolling.com/polls/a-happy-valentines-day-for-joe-biden/

On a less serious note PPP once again tested whether people think Michael Jordan or LeBron James is the greatest basketball player of all time in the wake of James breaking the all time scoring record last week. And despite that record it’s still not competitive- Jordan wins out 58-15. It was 77-14 in 2015 so James’ success over the last eight years has led to a little more ambiguity on the question but MJ still has the clear advantage.

I do not know why you need to make a thread about it? Everybody in the world knows that Michael is the greatest of all time

[CobraCommander]

People buy Ralf Lauren and other designer brands too. Jordan's shoes are no longer sold because he was a basketball player. They sell because it's a highly coveted designer brand item.

Yep- marketing...but if some Random 15 year old girl in middle America is wearing Jordan’s and someone asked her who is the greatest basketball player ever...she will say unapologetically Michael Jordan. It is what it is....

That's possible. I however fully believe some people might not even know the Jordan was a basketball player at this point. I'm sure it's a minority, but over time he'll become more known for his clothing brand than basketball to increasingly younger generations.

You are 100% right....MJ is like George Washington as a president...more legendary to everyone in America and not many people could quote a single thing he did besides be the greatest president

[Braggins]

Lebron will eventually be considered the consensus GOAT. I'm pretty sure even most people who swear by MJ know this deep down and this is why everyone has been getting so defensive about it lately.

[Nate505]

Of course they do. They are really close, but MJ played in the golden age of the NBA, and Lebron doesn't.

Yeah, supposedly everyone is more skilled and better now and everything, but back in the day I could turn on a game and actually watch the best players play. Now I see games where 80% of the starting stars sit games all the time. The reason for it is not very important. The fact is it happens and it's not great for building up a fanbase in general.

[ropjhk]

Another thing to consider is Lebron's longevity vs. Jordan's years outside the NBA before his final retirement. I find a lot of people don't give Jordan enough credit for his NCAA career. Even his baseball stint turned out to be impressive and underrated. His post Bulls years were not the best as he seriously cut his finger, followed by joining the Wizards ownership and his poor team management.

I value Lebron's longevity over what Jordan did outside the NBA during those years but I also recognize that Lebron's career numbers wouldn't be as much of an advantage in the debate if Jordan spent those years in the NBA. Lebron would still be chasing Jordan's scoring record if Jordan had made an early jump to the NBA like Lebron and didn't take a break to play baseball.

[ropjhk]

Unless Lebron wins more championships he's not going to dethrone Jordan. Adding more to the longevity category has diminishing returns.

.... unless of course he's still playing at a top 5 level into his mid 40's. Then I think his longevity will take on new meaning beyond basketball and into general athletics and human genetics.

[The High Cyde]

I think MJ is the goat...but really it doesn’t matter at this point....the nba and Nike crowded MJ the goat...forever...

and Lebron not overcoming that marketing.

And the public has spoken...people that never saw MJ play think he is better than Lebron just because

It’s engrained like Lincoln or Washington the greatest President- no one else need to apply

Example of how big MJ is....MJ and Nike still selling his retro sneakers at raffles online and lebrons sitting on shelves at footlocker...

That’s a new generation of MJ loyalist that vote MJ regardless of facts...when we kinda all know Wilt the goat lol

i mean, Jordan sneakers just look better, than any of the countless Lebrons.

The “panda 1s” dropping at 10 am tomorrow on snkrs- playoff 13s dropped too...but man that’s a lot of selling to people born after his last shot with even the wizards.

MJ is a degenerate gambling, smoking, team mate punching @-hole with narcissist tendencies...that no one would really consider a friend BUT he has the best marketing on earth...I mean in the solar system...can’t knock the hustle -

Lebrons marketing is great...MJs MARKETING is the GOAT for sure

Lost my draw for the pandas they look so good dammit

[SNPA]

Lebron will eventually be considered the consensus GOAT. I'm pretty sure even most people who swear by MJ know this deep down and this is why everyone has been getting so defensive about it lately.

Disagree. I think he loses ground over time. Basically all players do and his style will fall out of favor IMO.

In ten years some kid will post a How Good Was James Really thread and question his athleticism compared to modern players. Lol.

[Braggins]

Lebron will eventually be considered the consensus GOAT. I'm pretty sure even most people who swear by MJ know this deep down and this is why everyone has been getting so defensive about it lately.

Disagree. I think he loses ground over time. Basically all players do and his style will fall out of favor IMO.

In ten years some kid will post a How Good Was James Really thread and question his athleticism compared to modern players. Lol.

The reason MJ is considered the GOAT is because the basketball media is dominated by bitter old heads who refuse to admit the game has evolved/improved and somehow think the **** mid to late 90s era was the pinnacle of basketball.

Eventually the basketball media will be dominated by players from Lebrons era and he will be considered the GOAT. This would likely happen even if he didnt deserve to be considered the GOAT (he does btw).

[Karate Diop]

This is hardly surprising... Old timers who grew up as Jordan Stans will never let anyone be better than him.

[SNPA]

Lebron will eventually be considered the consensus GOAT. I'm pretty sure even most people who swear by MJ know this deep down and this is why everyone has been getting so defensive about it lately.

Disagree. I think he loses ground over time. Basically all players do and his style will fall out of favor IMO.

In ten years some kid will post a How Good Was James Really thread and question his athleticism compared to modern players. Lol.

The reason MJ is considered the GOAT is because the basketball media is dominated by bitter old heads who refuse to admit the game has evolved/improved and somehow think the **** mid to late 90s era was the pinnacle of basketball.

Eventually the basketball media will be dominated by players from Lebrons era and he will be considered the GOAT. This would likely happen even if he didnt deserve to be considered the GOAT (he does btw).

Circle of life. Get ready to be called a bitter old head in 10-15 years in the How Good Was James Really thread.

[ropjhk]

Of course they do. They are really close, but MJ played in the golden age of the NBA, and Lebron doesn't.

Yeah, supposedly everyone is more skilled and better now and everything, but back in the day I could turn on a game and actually watch the best players play. Now I see games where 80% of the starting stars sit games all the time. The reason for it is not very important. The fact is it happens and it's not great for building up a fanbase in general.

Jordan and Kobe were known for not taking a day off. They placed such high pressure on themselves to play and perform at a high level every game for the paying fans. This attitude should be factored into the GOAT debate. Not taking games off for simple rest is another thing that makes Jordan great and Lebron taking rest days and not trying on defense to save energy diminishes his longevity advantage.

[ropjhk]

I see a lot of whining from the Lebron camp and not so much of an actual argument for debate. When they resort to attacking the fans and the media you know they've lost.

[dhsilv2]

Yep- marketing...but if some Random 15 year old girl in middle America is wearing Jordan’s and someone asked her who is the greatest basketball player ever...she will say unapologetically Michael Jordan. It is what it is....

That's possible. I however fully believe some people might not even know the Jordan was a basketball player at this point. I'm sure it's a minority, but over time he'll become more known for his clothing brand than basketball to increasingly younger generations.

You are 100% right....MJ is like George Washington as a president...more legendary to everyone in America and not many people could quote a single thing he did besides be the greatest president

Got me thinking about this from the wire.

Watch on YouTube

[TheNetsFan]

Yep- marketing...but if some Random 15 year old girl in middle America is wearing Jordan’s and someone asked her who is the greatest basketball player ever...she will say unapologetically Michael Jordan. It is what it is....

That's possible. I however fully believe some people might not even know the Jordan was a basketball player at this point. I'm sure it's a minority, but over time he'll become more known for his clothing brand than basketball to increasingly younger generations.

You are 100% right....MJ is like George Washington as a president...more legendary to everyone in America and not many people could quote a single thing he did besides be the greatest president

I'm not sure I've ever heard someone claim Washington was the greatest president, though he is the most famous.

[CobraCommander]

That's possible. I however fully believe some people might not even know the Jordan was a basketball player at this point. I'm sure it's a minority, but over time he'll become more known for his clothing brand than basketball to increasingly younger generations.

You are 100% right....MJ is like George Washington as a president...more legendary to everyone in America and not many people could quote a single thing he did besides be the greatest president

Got me thinking about this from the wire.

Watch on YouTube

Damn - dude was too soft for the game and paid for it

[CobraCommander]

That's possible. I however fully believe some people might not even know the Jordan was a basketball player at this point. I'm sure it's a minority, but over time he'll become more known for his clothing brand than basketball to increasingly younger generations.

You are 100% right....MJ is like George Washington as a president...more legendary to everyone in America and not many people could quote a single thing he did besides be the greatest president

I'm not sure I've ever heard someone claim Washington was the greatest president, though he is the most famous.

You get the point - zGW got a state, city, towns in every state, colleges and everything named after him...marketing -

[Nate505]

You are 100% right....MJ is like George Washington as a president...more legendary to everyone in America and not many people could quote a single thing he did besides be the greatest president

I'm not sure I've ever heard someone claim Washington was the greatest president, though he is the most famous.

You get the point - zGW got a state, city, towns in every state, colleges and everything named after him...marketing -

It's not just marketing. Washington was considered a great President because at the time, he was about the only one who could take the job and hold the country together (the north would have not accepted a Thomas Jefferson at first and the south would not have accepted a John Adams at first), and he actually took the job instead of the other two options. One, he could have kept his military command and parlayed the job into a kingship (or tried anyway, and put a very new country into a civil war it wouldn't have survived). Two, he could have not taken the job and went back to Mt. Vernon and the country would have been in disarray without any effective leadership at a critical time.