2022-2023 Magic Trade and Free Agency Idea Thread III

[basketballRob]

This free agency class is a real stinker.

Nikola Vucevic, Jerami Grant, Caris LaVert, Harrison Barnes, Brook Lopez, Jakob Poeltl

GTJ and FVV need to opt out to make it interesting.

Poor money alocation on behalf of Weltman.
I've been beating this drum for 2 years, having money in back to back years ( 2022& 2023) where esencially nobody good is free agent is just wasteful, given that Magic could really leveradge fact others don't have money.

And every single great GM knows year to have money is 2024.

Just look at those names:
Deyonte Murray
Jaylen Brown
Joe Harris
DInwiddie
Lonzo Ball
Derozan
Klay Thompson
Kawhi
George
Lebron & Davis with player's option that they will 99% opt out
Desmond Bane ( probably wont' hit FA tho)
Jrue Holiday
Edwards & McDaniels ( restricted, again probably won't hit FA)
Pokuševski
Valeniunas
Sabonis
Tobias Harris
Siakam
OG
Jordan Clarkson
Olynyk
Avdija ( restricted)
Monte Morris

Ofc, that also means all of the big sharks will be in water. It's just matter of time until some Nets/Clippers buys off another contender from nothing. Hell, Knicks might actually become contender now

We are projected to have $80m in space next season.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[pepe1991]

This free agency class is a real stinker.

Nikola Vucevic, Jerami Grant, Caris LaVert, Harrison Barnes, Brook Lopez, Jakob Poeltl

GTJ and FVV need to opt out to make it interesting.

Poor money alocation on behalf of Weltman.
I've been beating this drum for 2 years, having money in back to back years ( 2022& 2023) where esencially nobody good is free agent is just wasteful, given that Magic could really leveradge fact others don't have money.

And every single great GM knows year to have money is 2024.

Just look at those names:
Deyonte Murray
Jaylen Brown
Joe Harris
DInwiddie
Lonzo Ball
Derozan
Klay Thompson
Kawhi
George
Lebron & Davis with player's option that they will 99% opt out
Desmond Bane ( probably wont' hit FA tho)
Jrue Holiday
Edwards & McDaniels ( restricted, again probably won't hit FA)
Pokuševski
Valeniunas
Sabonis
Tobias Harris
Siakam
OG
Jordan Clarkson
Olynyk
Avdija ( restricted)
Monte Morris

Ofc, that also means all of the big sharks will be in water. It's just matter of time until some Nets/Clippers buys off another contender from nothing. Hell, Knicks might actually become contender now

We are projected to have $80m in space next season.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

Can you amuse me and elaborate?

[jezzerinho]

Not a genuine suggestion (would take serious cojones and probably a deathwish), but an interesting thought experiment in terms of balancing the roster:

MINN OUT
Towns
Edwards

ORL OUT
Banchero
Harris
Fultz
#11

Draft Jarace Walker and Colby Jones (at 36?) for example

Orl
Anthony/Suggs
Edwards/Jones
Wagner/Edwards/Okeke
Carter Jr/Walker
Towns/Bitadze

Ignore the fact that nobody who wants to keep their job trades the ROY in year 2. Nor in Paolo's case probably should they. That's a given!

Hahaha ha. Not a single bite. I'm slipping.

[Magic_Kingdom]

If I’m the Magic I’m trading 6 & 11 for a shooter and using free agency to sign a big who can rebound. The projects available in this draft won’t improve the team.

[VFX]

Not a genuine suggestion (would take serious cojones and probably a deathwish), but an interesting thought experiment in terms of balancing the roster:

MINN OUT
Towns
Edwards

ORL OUT
Banchero
Harris
Fultz
#11

Draft Jarace Walker and Colby Jones (at 36?) for example

Orl
Anthony/Suggs
Edwards/Jones
Wagner/Edwards/Okeke
Carter Jr/Walker
Towns/Bitadze

Ignore the fact that nobody who wants to keep their job trades the ROY in year 2. Nor in Paolo's case probably should they. That's a given!

Hahaha ha. Not a single bite. I'm slipping.

[eyriq]

Some ideas I like

No. 6, Denver 2024, & Gary Harris for Devin Vassel

or

No. 6, No. 11, WCJ, & Gary Harris for Scoot and Anfernee Simons

1st - yes
2nd - slightly too pricey for me and not a weham deal

The second scenario would imply a major retooling. Scoot and Simons would be starters and we'd have Fultz, Cole, and Suggs competing for backup mins. There would be another shoe to drop for sure. I don't think this scenario is very likely.

The first scenario would be really slick. We can still target a shooter or a wing at number 11.

I think it's a very high probability that one of Cole or Fultz will get moved this offseason. Something like 75% off the top of my head. What's the deal though?

[drsd]

No. 6, Denver 2024, & Gary Harris for Devin Vassel

I love this trade for Orlando. All the guys at #6 are hopeful-wishes to be a Vassell-type player. So to add the Denver pick, likely in the very low-20s, that's definitely worth the cost. Adding G-Harris actually benefits the Magic, as Orlando doesn't have to be the team to waive him then for cap-benefits (I cannot see any path for Harris as a Magician on opening night: none.)

For me I think San Antonio would want a lot more for Vassell. Perhaps Anthony or Suggs added instead of G-Harris. That's to sweet for my tastes.

[Skybox]

No. 6, Denver 2024, & Gary Harris for Devin Vassel

I love this trade for Orlando. All the guys at #6 are hopeful-wishes to be a Vassell-type player. So to add the Denver pick, likely in the very low-20s, that's definitely worth the cost. Adding G-Harris actually benefits the Magic, as Orlando doesn't have to be the team to waive him then for cap-benefits (I cannot see any path for Harris as a Magician on opening night: none.)

For me I think San Antonio would want a lot more for Vassell. Perhaps Anthony or Suggs added instead of G-Harris. That's to sweet for my tastes.

I also think that's light for SAS...IF we could sub in Cole to get it done, I would. Suggs is tougher, but I would. Fultz would be easy for me to sub in...I think it probably takes another pick if Vassell is even available...he's a great piece with Wemby.

The trade mentioned earlier for Simons AND Scoot is too good to be true...I also don't see Scoot getting past 2 and I do NOT do it for Brandon Miller. If Scoot's the target - it's all about CHA.

[tiderulz]

No. 6, Denver 2024, & Gary Harris for Devin Vassel

I love this trade for Orlando. All the guys at #6 are hopeful-wishes to be a Vassell-type player. So to add the Denver pick, likely in the very low-20s, that's definitely worth the cost. Adding G-Harris actually benefits the Magic, as Orlando doesn't have to be the team to waive him then for cap-benefits (I cannot see any path for Harris as a Magician on opening night: none.)

For me I think San Antonio would want a lot more for Vassell. Perhaps Anthony or Suggs added instead of G-Harris. That's to sweet for my tastes.

if San Antonio wants to even consider trading him. He is a young, developing player that every team wants, SA included, instead of resetting and possibly miss with #6. If Vassell was 26-28 we might be able to pry him loose, otherwise i think the only way to get him makes him way too expensive

[jonbob17]

This free agency class is a real stinker.

Nikola Vucevic, Jerami Grant, Caris LaVert, Harrison Barnes, Brook Lopez, Jakob Poeltl

GTJ and FVV need to opt out to make it interesting.

Poor money alocation on behalf of Weltman.
I've been beating this drum for 2 years, having money in back to back years ( 2022& 2023) where esencially nobody good is free agent is just wasteful, given that Magic could really leveradge fact others don't have money.

And every single great GM knows year to have money is 2024.

Just look at those names:
Deyonte Murray
Jaylen Brown
Joe Harris
DInwiddie
Lonzo Ball
Derozan
Klay Thompson
Kawhi
George
Lebron & Davis with player's option that they will 99% opt out
Desmond Bane ( probably wont' hit FA tho)
Jrue Holiday
Edwards & McDaniels ( restricted, again probably won't hit FA)
Pokuševski
Valeniunas
Sabonis
Tobias Harris
Siakam
OG
Jordan Clarkson
Olynyk
Avdija ( restricted)
Monte Morris

Ofc, that also means all of the big sharks will be in water. It's just matter of time until some Nets/Clippers buys off another contender from nothing. Hell, Knicks might actually become contender now

We are projected to have $80m in space next season.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

GMs knowing when to have money and having it available are two different things. Half the league are already stuck in Cap Purgatory or worse. Teams that want to keep things going are going to have an even harder time. A lot of these teams have given up so many future firsts that they can't even think about rebuilding.

The Magic are in prime position to land a star in the next couple years. The new CBA is going to have teams scrambling, if not this summer, then next. Suggs and Franz extensions won't be kicking in until 2025-26, and even those should be plenty reasonable.

If the FO build this thing right we could have a huge advantage over most the league. Some of the younger teams like OKC, Sacramento, Indiana, maybe San Antonio will be our rivals. Denver will probably be good as long as Jokic is.

Look at at team like Minnesota, if they can't move KAT, they are going to be going into 2024-25 with three players making the entire cap, and two of them are centers! AND even if they can move KAT, close to equal salary is probably headed back.

[Knightro]

Can you amuse me and elaborate?

I'll do it.

So the cap in the summer of 2024 is expected to increase by 10% to approximately $149.6M.

The Magic could have as little as the following in guaranteed salaries going into next summer.

Banchero 12.1M
Carter 11.95M
Suggs 9.1M
Franz 7M
2023 6th overall pick: Approx 7.5M
2023 11th overall pick: Approx 5.2M

That's only $52.85M in guaranteed salary.

Fultz, Harris, Bol, Bitadze will be UFAs.

Anthony and Okeke will be RFAs. Anthony has a 7.7M qualifying offer which they'll likely extend.

Isaac and Houstan are fully unguaranteed.

If they don't spend any money this offseason, they could easily get 80M in cap space.

[eyriq]

Can you amuse me and elaborate?

I'll do it.

So the cap in the summer of 2024 is expected to increase by 10% to approximately $149.6M.

The Magic could have as little as the following in guaranteed salaries going into next summer.

Banchero 12.1M
Carter 11.95M
Suggs 9.1M
Franz 7M
2023 6th overall pick: Approx 7.5M
2023 11th overall pick: Approx 5.2M

That's only $52.85M in guaranteed salary.

Fultz, Harris, Bol, Bitadze will be UFAs.

Anthony and Okeke will be RFAs. Anthony has a 7.7M qualifying offer which they'll likely extend.

Isaac and Houstan are fully unguaranteed.

If they don't spend any money this offseason, they could easily get 80M in cap space.

Whoa. Feels like running it back just got much more enticing

[thelead]

Can you amuse me and elaborate?

I'll do it.

So the cap in the summer of 2024 is expected to increase by 10% to approximately $149.6M.

The Magic could have as little as the following in guaranteed salaries going into next summer.

Banchero 12.1M
Carter 11.95M
Suggs 9.1M
Franz 7M
2023 6th overall pick: Approx 7.5M
2023 11th overall pick: Approx 5.2M

That's only $52.85M in guaranteed salary.

Fultz, Harris, Bol, Bitadze will be UFAs.

Anthony and Okeke will be RFAs. Anthony has a 7.7M qualifying offer which they'll likely extend.

Isaac and Houstan are fully unguaranteed.

If they don't spend any money this offseason, they could easily get 80M in cap space.

Whoa. Feels like running it back just got much more enticing

meh. Most of the names he posted are old or bench players. There are a few guys definitely worth targeting but we should be focused on draft picks, internal growth, and trades first.

Are you excited about saving money this summer so we can target Joe Harris or guys that never play like Lonzo Ball and Kawhi next summer? Klay and Jrue will be 34, Deyonte has bad blood with Paolo. Poku?

That list really doesn't do anything for me. The good ones are restricted (Bane, Edwards) or won't get away from their current teams (Sabonis).

[Skybox]

We’ve got enough cap space to get busy THIS summer…let’s do it.

[Redwood]

For some reason it seems prior era's had a greater distinction between good and bad players. There are players in the NBA today that are better than most other players for sure, but it seems like many more players fall into the average to slightly above average category than in recent decades. Just seems the pool of truly good players isn't nearly as big. Maybe it's because the NBA has basically outlawed defense, there aren't many true/defensive centers, everyone jacks up a ton of 3pt shots including front court players...who knows, it's almost like most every player plays roughly the same. Probably why not as many players stand out from the crowd anymore.

[pepe1991]

I'll do it.

So the cap in the summer of 2024 is expected to increase by 10% to approximately $149.6M.

The Magic could have as little as the following in guaranteed salaries going into next summer.

Banchero 12.1M
Carter 11.95M
Suggs 9.1M
Franz 7M
2023 6th overall pick: Approx 7.5M
2023 11th overall pick: Approx 5.2M

That's only $52.85M in guaranteed salary.

Fultz, Harris, Bol, Bitadze will be UFAs.

Anthony and Okeke will be RFAs. Anthony has a 7.7M qualifying offer which they'll likely extend.

Isaac and Houstan are fully unguaranteed.

If they don't spend any money this offseason, they could easily get 80M in cap space.

Whoa. Feels like running it back just got much more enticing

meh. Most of the names he posted are old or bench players. There are a few guys definitely worth targeting but we should be focused on draft picks, internal growth, and trades first.

Are you excited about saving money this summer so we can target Joe Harris or guys that never play like Lonzo Ball and Kawhi next summer? Klay and Jrue will be 34, Deyonte has bad blood with Paolo. Poku?

That list really doesn't do anything for me. The good ones are restricted (Bane, Edwards) or won't get away from their current teams (Sabonis).

Few things:

1) i saw 2024-25 projections of salary cap, most people expect it to be around $141M
2) Starting with the 2024-25 salary cap year, any team that is below the minimum salary floor (90% of the cap) on the first day of the regular season will not receive a tax distribution.
3) Only way how Magic could pull off massive free cap space would be if they don't resign anybody from current roster and lose bunch of players in FA, witch simply isn't objective at all
4) Your cap projection has Magic drafting nobody in second round this year, and also nobody in first nor second round next year.
5) all this would only be possible if Magic elect to sign nobody this year, witch would be dumb and crazy.
6) probably most important part, let's say in some crazy scenario Magic somehow save $60-70M in cap space for 2024 and use it all, they would be troat deep in luxury tax by 2026, in repetitive tax in 2027 and probably force to do cost cutoffs in 2028 as Banchero's and Franz max would be filling cap space .


As far as "old farts" goes, i don't know what you expect? Only unrestricted FAs are players who are in late 20s or mid 30s. And bunch of high quality restricted FA that need to be payed big money to be signed. You may not like the list , but you also won't be able to sign majority of them because teams like Lakers, Clippers and Nets wll be out there. I mean, this year FA is apsolute joke. Jeremy Grant , Vincent, Brook Lopez, Westbrook. Guys like Vleet maybe won't even be FAs this year. . Magic have all this cap, and massive and desparate need for specific starting roles ( PG; SG) and almost nobody to use money on. This already happened last summer, where Magic had cap space and ended up resinging Bamba and Gary Harris. One is already gone for nothing. Other might be gone for nothing.


I agree with guy who wrote below, that NBA has pool of 85% of players who are okey players but don't move needle, and whole league is fighting for those 15% who are difference makers. 99% of big contract guys aren't worth money they are making.

[Skybox]

Best off-season opportunities (as usual) are trades. Utilizing cap space for players under contract is far more likely than just swiping a free agent with a contract offer. RFA’s are even less likely because it’s completely based on a dramatic overpay and/or the player really wanting to leave for a bigger/starting role…look for teams with (preferably) young guys with unrealized upside stuck behind stars. Look for teams with financial pressures that might sacrifice talent for flexibility. Look for teams with entirely different timelines.

Only way we get a UFA like FVV is if he really sees something he likes in ORL. Helpful fact is that he definitely carries that “undrafted, salary is my scoreboard “ chip on his shoulder…so he’s a candidate for leaving for a big offer (over a contending situation for less).

RFAs generally are matched if they’re good and the offer is not ridiculous as teams can exceed the cap and, if they don’t, they likely don’t have the financial means to replace him. So, it’s usually matched or “good riddance “.

Simons and Poole match the criteria, as examples, whether we want them is another question…who else?

[Skybox]

Whoa. Feels like running it back just got much more enticing

meh. Most of the names he posted are old or bench players. There are a few guys definitely worth targeting but we should be focused on draft picks, internal growth, and trades first.

Are you excited about saving money this summer so we can target Joe Harris or guys that never play like Lonzo Ball and Kawhi next summer? Klay and Jrue will be 34, Deyonte has bad blood with Paolo. Poku?

That list really doesn't do anything for me. The good ones are restricted (Bane, Edwards) or won't get away from their current teams (Sabonis).

Few things:

1) i saw 2024-25 projections of salary cap, most people expect it to be around $141M
2) Starting with the 2024-25 salary cap year, any team that is below the minimum salary floor (90% of the cap) on the first day of the regular season will not receive a tax distribution.
3) Only way how Magic could pull off massive free cap space would be if they don't resign anybody from current roster and lose bunch of players in FA, witch simply isn't objective at all
4) Your cap projection has Magic drafting nobody in second round this year, and also nobody in first nor second round next year.
5) all this would only be possible if Magic elect to sign nobody this year, witch would be dumb and crazy.
6) probably most important part, let's say in some crazy scenario Magic somehow save $60-70M in cap space for 2024 and use it all, they would be troat deep in luxury tax by 2026, in repetitive tax in 2027 and probably force to do cost cutoffs in 2028 as Banchero's and Franz max would be filling cap space .


As far as "old farts" goes, i don't know what you expect? Only unrestricted FAs are players who are in late 20s or mid 30s. And bunch of high quality restricted FA that need to be payed big money to be signed. You may not like the list , but you also won't be able to sign majority of them because teams like Lakers, Clippers and Nets wll be out there. I mean, this year FA is apsolute joke. Jeremy Grant , Vincent, Brook Lopez, Westbrook. Guys like Vleet maybe won't even be FAs this year. . Magic have all this cap, and massive and desparate need for specific starting roles ( PG; SG) and almost nobody to use money on. This already happened last summer, where Magic had cap space and ended up resinging Bamba and Gary Harris. One is already gone for nothing. Other might be gone for nothing.


I agree with guy who wrote below, that NBA has pool of 85% of players who are okey players but don't move needle, and whole league is fighting for those 15% who are difference makers. 99% of big contract guys aren't worth money they are making.

Well said…even the just below top-tier guys, due to MASSIVE deals are risky. Teams re-sign star players to absurd deals due to “can’t afford to lose them” leverage and they quickly become strangleholds on cap. Beal, possibly Dame, Klay, Jaylen Brown super max, KAT, Gobert, Kyrie…get their deals, generally deserved in context, but quickly can become insanely bad. These deals often don’t age well. I love Jaylen Brown’s game, but if he gets a Supermax, his turnover/assist ratio becomes a lot more painful…I wouldn’t trade for him for strictly financial reasons-BOS faces a tough decision with him. Tatum, next year, IS an MVP level young guy, Brown is, maybe, the best sidekick in the league. For context, Poole, Simons, FVV at appx $30m, while certainly big deals, don’t come close to those mega deals.

*on the other hand, maybe Brown, like Butler, is even better when handed the keys on another team.

This is also why we need to get to work now, before all our young talent gets paid- we need to test them in meaningful situations to be sure they’ve really got star power before they’re paid like stars.

[YosemiteSam]

Best off-season opportunities (as usual) are trades. Utilizing cap space for players under contract is far more likely than just swiping a free agent with a contract offer. RFA’s are even less likely because it’s completely based on a dramatic overpay and/or the player really wanting to leave for a bigger/starting role…look for teams with (preferably) young guys with unrealized upside stuck behind stars. Look for teams with financial pressures that might sacrifice talent for flexibility. Look for teams with entirely different timelines.

Only way we get a UFA like FVV is if he really sees something he likes in ORL. Helpful fact is that he definitely carries that “undrafted, salary is my scoreboard “ chip on his shoulder…so he’s a candidate for leaving for a big offer (over a contending situation for less).

RFAs generally are matched if they’re good and the offer is not ridiculous as teams can exceed the cap and, if they don’t, they likely don’t have the financial means to replace him. So, it’s usually matched or “good riddance “.

Simons and Poole match the criteria, as examples, whether we want them is another question…who else?

I really think LaMelo is gettable in a trade. If the Hornets decide they want to move forward with Scoot, then they may see if they could move LaMelo for future picks and young talent. I think we could put together the kind of package they are looking for and he fits our timeline. I’m not sure why no one is looking that way as he fits a lot of the criteria for a young player who could move due to a lack of fit with his team, a team that is notorious for making bad decisions, and someone who has been a little high maintenance so that they devalue themselves versus their actual talent and contributions. He is also getting close to being due for a payday, which is fine for the Magic, and where we are, but for the Hornets does not match their current timeline.

[Skybox]

Best off-season opportunities (as usual) are trades. Utilizing cap space for players under contract is far more likely than just swiping a free agent with a contract offer. RFA’s are even less likely because it’s completely based on a dramatic overpay and/or the player really wanting to leave for a bigger/starting role…look for teams with (preferably) young guys with unrealized upside stuck behind stars. Look for teams with financial pressures that might sacrifice talent for flexibility. Look for teams with entirely different timelines.

Only way we get a UFA like FVV is if he really sees something he likes in ORL. Helpful fact is that he definitely carries that “undrafted, salary is my scoreboard “ chip on his shoulder…so he’s a candidate for leaving for a big offer (over a contending situation for less).

RFAs generally are matched if they’re good and the offer is not ridiculous as teams can exceed the cap and, if they don’t, they likely don’t have the financial means to replace him. So, it’s usually matched or “good riddance “.

Simons and Poole match the criteria, as examples, whether we want them is another question…who else?

I really think LaMelo is gettable in a trade. If the Hornets decide they want to move forward with Scoot, then they may see if they could move LaMelo for future picks and young talent. I think we could put together the kind of package they are looking for and he fits our timeline. I’m not sure why no one is looking that way as he fits a lot of the criteria for a young player who could move due to a lack of fit with his team, a team that is notorious for making bad decisions, and someone who has been a little high maintenance so that they devalue themselves versus their actual talent and contributions.

For all of his father’s craziness, I’ve only heard great things about Lamelo. I’ve heard people say he’s one of the most well-liked guys in the league, unselfish, etc…so I question “high maintenance “. He also is a fantastic player who puts asses in the seats with his style of play. If I thought he and Scoot couldn’t work optimally, I’m trading the pick…having said that, I’d LOVE to get Lamelo.