Okie Dokie Josh Okogie

[Walt Cronkite]

lol @ the idea of us being in a better place than Phoenix rn. they are an underperforming .500 ball club that took big swings at star players which is surely disappointing for them and their fans but its a hell of a lot less disappointing than being on year 21 of your team doing absolutely nothing to compete, with vague accountability-dodging promises of "muh future"

the Suns could dump off KD and Booker whenever they want and rebuild faster and better than this team could in a decade because good players dont laugh at the idea of playing there. a big reason for that is that their owner isnt a pair of cheapskate grifters. and they hire their guys based on being good at their job, not being Atlanta Hawks buddies from 2015

Churning through one asset after another is preferable to building assets for a long-term vision that should pay off down the road, got it. Thanks KembaWalker, I knew this goodtimes guy was a dummy, thanks!

[KembaWalker]

lol @ the idea of us being in a better place than Phoenix rn. they are an underperforming .500 ball club that took big swings at star players which is surely disappointing for them and their fans but its a hell of a lot less disappointing than being on year 21 of your team doing absolutely nothing to compete, with vague accountability-dodging promises of "muh future"

the Suns could dump off KD and Booker whenever they want and rebuild faster and better than this team could in a decade because good players dont laugh at the idea of playing there. a big reason for that is that their owner isnt a pair of cheapskate grifters. and they hire their guys based on being good at their job, not being Atlanta Hawks buddies from 2015

Churning through one asset after another is preferable to building assets for a long-term vision that should pay off down the road, got it. Thanks KembaWalker, I knew this goodtimes guy was a dummy, thanks!

every GM we've ever had has preached a long term vision, because they know they can't deliver anything else. how are yall still getting tricked by these chumps i'll never know. if we came out and were a 40 win team this year nobody would be sad because the long term was being damaged by securing anther mediocre pick. we'd be happy cause the team is competitive.

theres literally no outcomes that you some of guys would be upset with because worst case scenario youll always have the fallback option to eat up the perpetual "future" promises so why even have a discussion about it?

at the end of the day no suns fan on earth would change spots with us lol

[Walt Cronkite]

every GM we've ever had has preached a long term vision, because they know they can't deliver anything else. how are yall still getting tricked by these chumps i'll never know. if we came out and were a 40 win team this year nobody would be sad because the long term was being damaged by securing anther mediocre pick. we'd be happy cause the team is competitive.

theres literally no outcomes that you some of guys would be upset with because worst case scenario youll always have the fallback option to eat up the perpetual "future" promises so why even have a discussion about it?

at the end of the day no suns fan on earth would change spots with us lol

A month ago, Ishiba was a shining example of a good owner for you because he loaded and "knows ball". It is interesting that Tim Bontemps uses the Richards trade to contrasts Ishiba's first two years vs Schall/Plotkin's 18months and doesn't find it to have been so catastrophically terrible for what the Hornets are building.

I didn't imagine a team would give up much for Nick Richards, but it seems like they keep building up the war chest to have options to make moves in the future when it matters. I know it's futile to suppose you won't have a totally negative view of whatever the franchise does unless they win every game, but I thought you would be able to have an interesting take since you think highly of Ishiba. Appreciate the insight.

[luciano-davidwesley]

lol @ the idea of us being in a better place than Phoenix rn. they are an underperforming .500 ball club that took big swings at star players which is surely disappointing for them and their fans but its a hell of a lot less disappointing than being on year 21 of your team doing absolutely nothing to compete, with vague accountability-dodging promises of "muh future"

the Suns could dump off KD and Booker whenever they want and rebuild faster and better than this team could in a decade because good players dont laugh at the idea of playing there. a big reason for that is that their owner isnt a pair of cheapskate grifters. and they hire their guys based on being good at their job, not being Atlanta Hawks buddies from 2015

Churning through one asset after another is preferable to building assets for a long-term vision that should pay off down the road, got it. Thanks KembaWalker, I knew this goodtimes guy was a dummy, thanks!

every GM we've ever had has preached a long term vision, because they know they can't deliver anything else. how are yall still getting tricked by these chumps i'll never know. if we came out and were a 40 win team this year nobody would be sad because the long term was being damaged by securing anther mediocre pick. we'd be happy cause the team is competitive.

theres literally no outcomes that you some of guys would be upset with because worst case scenario youll always have the fallback option to eat up the perpetual "future" promises so why even have a discussion about it?

at the end of the day no suns fan on earth would change spots with us lol

If we were a 40 win team people would be complaining that we are stuck in NBA purgatory and would be whingeing about getting pick 13.

In the past we made stupid, shortsighted compete now trades like mediocre vets for a first and it set us back.

It's a no win situation for the new owners. We are all frustrated but I don't think the doom and glooming is helpful.

I 100% would NOT swap our situation with Phoenix. They are absolutely screwed for years.

[Walt Cronkite]

I really want that guys name to be Ishiba, but it's Ishbia, my bad.

[KembaWalker]

every GM we've ever had has preached a long term vision, because they know they can't deliver anything else. how are yall still getting tricked by these chumps i'll never know. if we came out and were a 40 win team this year nobody would be sad because the long term was being damaged by securing anther mediocre pick. we'd be happy cause the team is competitive.

theres literally no outcomes that you some of guys would be upset with because worst case scenario youll always have the fallback option to eat up the perpetual "future" promises so why even have a discussion about it?

at the end of the day no suns fan on earth would change spots with us lol

A month ago, Ishiba was a shining example of a good owner for you because he loaded and "knows ball". It is interesting that Tim Bontemps uses the Richards trade to contrasts Ishiba's first two years vs Schall/Plotkin's 18months and doesn't find it to have been so catastrophically terrible for what the Hornets are building.

I didn't imagine a team would give up much for Nick Richards, but it seems like they keep building up the war chest to have options to make moves in the future when it matters. I know it's futile to suppose you won't have a totally negative view of whatever the franchise does unless they win every game, but I thought you would be able to have an interesting take since you think highly of Ishiba. Appreciate the insight.

what Ishbia is trying to do is really hard, building a contender at all costs. including building top flight facilities without taking city money and signing an elite coach and staff of legit assistants

what we are doing, losing every night, and yapping about how we're totally gonna be good in a few years, for realsies this time, while vacuuming up city money and taking the cheap last guy nobody else wanted along with his staff of absolute nobodies is incredibly easy

comparing Ishbia to Schnotkin is a joke

[Walt Cronkite]

Building a perennial loser to something else is easier than building a contender at all costs?

[KembaWalker]

Building a perennial loser to something else is easier than building a contender at all costs?

yeah, by a lot

the Suns are being judged on a scale where anything but a 55+ win season and deep playoff run would be ruled a failure. they went out and got the stars, got the coaches. their depressing, miserable, horrible outcome is that they might have to go to where we always are in a year or two if they can't land Jimmy Butler.

the Hornets are being judged (by people like you) on a scale where they have basically no bad outcomes. we could finish at 20 wins this year, end up with Kon Kneuppel at pick 7 or whatever and ya'll would be ready to do all this **** again next year for Dybantsa. when the goal isnt to win you're either right on track or ahead of schedule.

[SWedd523]

Bontemps: It's interesting to look at the two teams that made this deal Wednesday, because while the Suns have churned through one asset after another across the two years Ishbia has owned the team, it has been the opposite in Charlotte.

Rick Schnall and Gabe Plotkin acquired control of the team from Michael Jordan in the summer of 2023, about six months after Ishbia bought the Suns. Over the past 18 months, the Hornets have picked up first-round picks by trading P.J. Washington and Terry Rozier, and added eight total second-rounders in other deals.

The Hornets are still in the nascent stages of building a contending team. But between these kinds of moves, plus the hiring of Jeff Peterson to run the front office and Charles Lee as coach, there is a promising long-term vision in place in Charlotte that should pay off down the road.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss, and the old boss.

Selling "long term vision" year after year with no expectation to win must be the greatest job in the world.

Imagine any other management for any other company being in the red every year but going "guys... I have a long term vision".

[Walt Cronkite]

the Hornets are being judged (by people like you) on a scale where they have basically no bad outcomes. we could finish at 20 wins this year, end up with Kon Kneuppel at pick 7 or whatever and ya'll would be ready to do all this **** again next year for Dybantsa. when the goal isnt to win you're either right on track or ahead of schedule.

I guess you have me all figured out! I have pretty low expectations for the Hornets, never participate in the predictions threads (would rather see what happens than guess and be disappointed) and abandoned posting on the board while rarely catching a game and following only the biggest Hornets news when they demonstrated year after year their ineptitude because those were joyless activities. If being a diehard fan is forcing yourself to suffer a bad existence, that's not me. I've found the Hornets worth watching lately and my interest picked up to see how the new ownership would compare to the MJ regime and I continue to have optimism because they appear to be doing some things differently, namely sticking to a development plan for more than one season.

Are you hate-following the Hornets? Do we need a board intervention?

[Walt Cronkite]

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss, and the old boss.

Selling "long term vision" year after year with no expectation to win must be the greatest job in the world.

Imagine any other management for any other company being in the red every year but going "guys... I have a long term vision".

So you have a **** product that no one wants to buy but instead of going bankrupt, it gets purchased by new investors. If it isn't immediately profitable, the new investors are the same as all of the old bosses?

[Bassman]

I really don’t want to be that fatalist…I really don’t. And yes this new regime gives us all another chance, another promise, another hope for a different future.

I get KembaWalker’s frustration, and wariness. I think some long term Hornets fans almost suffer from Stockholm syndrome; we’re like long term prisoners of war, and too easily accept meager morsels, or a sliver of hope.

[KembaWalker]

Basically just because ownership says their plan is long term doesn’t obligate me to wait long term to judge them. All I’ve seen so far is a blatantly cheap staff and a coach and GM hire that Occam’s razor tells me were probably at the front of the line because they were both buddies with Schnall back in Atlanta a decade ago, and not because they were the best guys available. It’s not really much different at all than Jordan’s UNC lackeys Buzz and Mitch

[yosemiteben]

I feel like it doesn't take a lot to see how this franchise in the last 12 months has acted dramatically differently than it has at any point since the franchise came back.

I'm not saying you have to like the vision and approach, but the "here we go again, more of the same, not serious about building something" takes are just too much for me.

[SWedd523]

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss, and the old boss.

Selling "long term vision" year after year with no expectation to win must be the greatest job in the world.

Imagine any other management for any other company being in the red every year but going "guys... I have a long term vision".

So you have a **** product that no one wants to buy but instead of going bankrupt, it gets purchased by new investors. If it isn't immediately profitable, the new investors are the same as all of the old bosses?

Why is it that teams like Detroit, Houston, etc can go through management changes and see quick results yet Charlotte can change GMs, Coaches, and Ownership groups multiple times and remain in the doldrums year over year over year?

Folks keep saying "it's a new ownership, you have to be patient, and so on" but they aren't starting from zero, this isn't an expansion franchise. All of the new folks have experience elsewhere in the league. They should know how to do the job they're getting paid handsomely to do. They have 3 young all-star caliber players yet are posting one of the league's worst records. Ownership has done nothing really to improve the on court product. The franchise has done absolutely nothing to deserve the benefit of the doubt regardless of the situation in which we find ourselves.

The team currently has a WORSE winning % than they did last year and Melo/Mark have played roughly the same amount of games. How do you explain that? How have they managed to regress after all the new regime snake oil shenaniganery?

The NBA is a results based organization and at some point you have to produce tangible outcomes instead of the repeated "Next Year, We Promise" BS.

I disagree wholly that, as a fan, I'm required to give them the benefit of the doubt. **** that.

The ownership instead should've realized that they were walking into a **** tier organization and trying to sell "long term vision" only lasts so long.

The Heat can rebuild on the promise of long term vision, the Spurs can, the Celtics can. The Hornets don't deserve that luxury and I will continue to denigrate them for running a poor franchise. If and when they decide to get serious about putting a winning product on the court then I will happily change my tune. Not gonna hold my breath though.

Maybe next year.

[Walt Cronkite]

Have you guys watched the last 5 or so games? It hasn't been so bad Since the team has been at mostly full strength,mbut the overwhelming sentiment is negativity.

SWedd,what ownership groups have exchanged this franchise during our fandom, who am I missing? Majority control. Bob Johnson->MJ->Modern era, no? It's been 18 months? 1 draft, 1offseason, approaching the second trade deadline. A major player just became trade eligible for value. What vast, sweeping positive changes should they have made?

[SWedd523]

3 ownership changes in 20 years isn't a small amount.

Neither is 9 different coaching regimes in the same span. Nor is omething like 5-7 personnel decision makers (depending on how you feel about Jordan or Brown making roster decisions).

You never answered my questions so I guess it bears re-wording

How is it that other teams can make noticeable improvement with regime change but Charlotte can't? What did Detroit do from last year to this to see such improvement? Did they give up their "lOnG tErM vIsIoN" or did they finally bring in some competent folks?

Do you disagree that it's possible to have a "long term vision" while ALSO attempting to put a short term quality product on the floor?

How is it that the team has gotten worse since last year despite having the main 4 guys around for the majority of the season (thus far)?

How long do we have to wait before I'm allowed to say they suck at their jobs? 2 years? 3 years? 5? Maybe next year?

Whomever it was that said Stockholm Syndrome has taken over the fanbase is 100% correct. So many folks tired of complaining about two decades of abject failure that they'd rather just create fake sunshine to bathe in.

[yosemiteben]

Do you remember how we sold 2nd round picks for years because we both didn't care about development and had an ownership group that wanted the cash over the chance at improvement?

Are we really saying this group is that group all over again?

[SWedd523]

Are we really saying there's only one way to have a dumb FO?

Awfully simplistic of you.

Believe it or not, there are tons of ways to be bad at your job.

[yosemiteben]

Are we really saying there's only one way to have a dumb FO?

Awfully simplistic of you.

Believe it or not, there are tons of ways to be bad at your job.

I think it's totally fair to say "I don't agree with the approach the FO is taking." I think that's substantively different than saying "This is just like every other FO we've ever had."

I respect opinions like yours and JMAC's that want to make moves to build up now. I'm just saying that there's no comparison between what we're doing now and what we did under say Cho.