Kobe NOT Top 10 Argument

[AdriLaker]

For me Kobe is the best and most talented player ever...but hey, you know what? think what you want...i don't care, you're free about having your own top 10 headlined by a seal and a monkey...

https://ibb.co/k2FPDg73

[dautjazz]

He’s not top 10 because there’s more then 10 players better than him.

Lebron
MJ
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Wilt
Russell
Hakeem
Shaq
Duncan
Curry

In no particular order

Agreed, and I'd throw in Jokic and Giannis in there as well, and probably others. If Kobe had higher shooting efficiency, then he might be top 10. He often struggled in the NBA finals as well.

[Stan]

That's genuinely THE dumbest argument you could make to have Kobe outside the top 10 lol. It blows my mind when people say things like that.

[Godymas]

Arguments against Kobe

1. Lack of MVPs - only has 1 MVP to his name
2. Middling efficiency
3. All NBA/All Defense selections a little inflated for era
4. 3 of his rings came riding Shaq's bus

Arguments for Kobe

1. Won 2 rings as the 1st option
2. Has some monstrous individual seasons
3. Decent longevity
4. Impact over accolades - the face of the NBA for a whole decade

Here are my top 10 all time

1. LeBron James
2. Michael Jordan
3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
4. Bill Russell
5. Steph Curry
6. Magic Johnson
7. Tim Duncan
8. Larry Bird
9. Wilt Chamberlain
10. Shaquille O'Neal

I think all the guys listed above have a few things over Kobe, the biggest thing that sticks out, multiple MVPs which to me is a must to be top 10 all time.

[dautjazz]

A lot of ppl have Kobe in their top 10s, and he was definitely a great player but I don’t think he can be in there for one simple reason: he was a poor man’s MJ. Period. He literally mimicked Jordan’s game down to his mannerisms and trying hard to be a psycho competitor that trashes team mates in practice etc. but he was not as good. Jordan clears him in basically everything.

The top 10 should be reserved for ORIGINALS, not copy cats. Almost everyone else in most top 10 lists was unique, except Kobe.

So you knock Kobe out of the top 10 because he's trying to be MJ yet you ignore

- LeBron James: "“I wear No. 23 because of Michael Jordan. I think he was the greatest basketball player ever.”
- Lebron James saying he's chasing the ghost who played in Chicago
- LeBron James tried to mirror Jordan by staring in a Space Jam movie, only to fail badly
- LeBron James in 2018 after making fadeaways against the Raptors: "I mean, you just look at some of the greatest that’s played this game: MJ, Kobe, those guys that I kind of looked up to when I was younger and obviously I grew up watching those guys. Just studying the footwork that they had, the ability to make tough shots. You know, it's just a lot of inspiration from those guys."

So he's right there with Kobe as far as not being original and should not be top 10 either.

They play nothing alike though lol. Kobe is a legit copy cat that wasn’t as good. Imagine in 50 years there’s another great player that’s also a copy cat but has the achievements to get into the top 10 . You would be okay with having 2 poor man’s versions in the all-time top 10?

Its just a silly reason keeping Kobe out of the top 10. There 10 players that are/were better than him, and that's why he doesn't belong, not became he had a similar game to MJ. I mean to some degree Shaq was similar to Wilt, but Shaq wasn't as great as passer as Wilt, so should we keep him out of the top 10?

[Snakebites]

A lot of ppl have Kobe in their top 10s, and he was definitely a great player but I don’t think he can be in there for one simple reason: he was a poor man’s MJ. Period. He literally mimicked Jordan’s game down to his mannerisms and trying hard to be a psycho competitor that trashes team mates in practice etc. but he was not as good. Jordan clears him in basically everything.

The top 10 should be reserved for ORIGINALS, not copy cats. Almost everyone else in most top 10 lists was unique, except Kobe.

I don’t mean to be offensive or anything but IMO arguments like this are what is wrong with this discourse.

That is of course my opinion- you get to use whatever criteria you wish. I just don’t think it’s a useful way of evaluating players.

Players should be judged by what they did and how well they did it, not based on narrative discussions like “influence” or “originality”.

I don’t have Kobe in my top 10 either (just outside of it actually) for a variety of reasons, namely the value I place on efficiency and peak as opposed to longevity.

[Asianiac_24]

Definitely better:
- LBj
- MJ
- Kareem
- Duncan
- Wilt
- Magic
- Bird

Probably better:
- Shaq
- Hakeem
- Curry
- Russell

Arguably better, but probably not:
- KG
- Oscar Robertson
- Jokic? Sooner or later though.

Players who I see ending up higher by end of their careers:
- Luka
- Wemby

[MrBigShot]

I dont take issue with placing Kobe outside of the top 10, but this thread is filled with so many stupid posts I dont't even know where to begin.

[Yoshun]

I honestly didn't read this whole thread outside of a few posts, but this is probably the worst "argument" I've ever heard on this board.

[Profound23]

How many players who played for the Lakers can be in the top 10?

[kodo]

[hauntedcomputer]

You either swallow the Mamba Mentality myth or you rank him outside the top 10. Those are the rules.

How many players who played for the Lakers can be in the top 10?

I have Mikan top 10 and I don't see how you can use any logical RANGZ argument that excludes him.

[SlimShady83]

I did this thread start of the year b4 the season with a POLL, most have him 10-15

viewtopic.php?t=2408215

[sashaturiaf]

Of course he's top 10. That is a non discussion

-Formed 2 different contending dynasties with vastly different teams and in different eras
-Consistency in excellence. All star and all NBA level player for near 15 years. Didn't miss games, didn't load manage, didn't give excuses
-Turned Shaq, a ADHD lazy man child who was saving his excrement to dump on teammates rather than working on his free throws into a winner with a 3 peat, the last 3 peat in the NBA
-Turned Pau Gasol who had never won a playoff game before he joined the Lakers into a 2 time champ and 3 time finals contestant
-This is down to personal preference but the aesthetics of his game and the strength of his character means he left an absolutely legendary impact on the game and it's culture


If you don't have Kobe top 5, you're a bitter stats nerd not a ball fan. If you don't have Kobe top 10, we ain't talking basketball on the same level.

[SlimShady83]

How many players who played for the Lakers can be in the top 10?

Kareem, Magic, Shaq, Kobe ... Am I missing anyone?

[MavsDirk41]

I dont have Kobe top 10 but i dont think its wild if you do. Him being a worse version of Jordan shouldnt make him “less” great. He won 2 championships as the best player on his team. That in itself is a great accomplishment.

Jordan
Kareem
James
Russell
Magic
Duncan
Bird
Wilt
Shaq
Hakeem

Top 10 in that order with Kobe being in the 11-13 range.

[phanman]

No they don't. Show me any top 100 list with him in the top 10 from the last 5 years.

1) David Aldridge & John Hollinger's Book and the Ringer have him 10th
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1h2w0n5/david_aldridge_john_hollingers_new_book_the/

2) Ranker.com top 280 have him 5th
https://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-top-nba-players-of-all-time

3) ChatGPT have him 8th

4) The100greatest.com have him 7th
https://www.the100greatest.com/2021/01/26/the-100-greatest-basketball-players-of-all-time/

5) Logan's Sports Ratings have him 9th
https://loganssportsratings.blogspot.com/2021/07/top-100-nba-players-of-all-time-intro.html

6) Ainsworthsports.com have him 10th
https://ainsworthsports.com/basketball_player_rankings_all_time_1_to_1000.htm

These aren't top 100 but 75+
1) Sportingnews.com have him 8th
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/nba-greatest-player-rankings-1-10/1krt9rauze7s21xes8fi657ifo

2) Hoopshype.com have him 8th
https://hoopshype.com/lists/78-greatest-nba-players-ever-hoopshype-list/

These definitely aren't all of the best sources, but it's what was available flipping through some google searches in my spare time. That fact that he appears in the majority of these lists in the top10, does debunk your statement. In the others that he didn't, he just narrowly missed out being anywhere from 11th to 15th. It really just depends on which era the voter grew up in.

[Profound23]

How many players who played for the Lakers can be in the top 10?

Kareem, Magic, Shaq, Kobe ... Am I missing anyone?

I would say there are arguments for Kareem, Magic, Shaq, Kobe, Wilt, Lebron, and Jerry West which is pretty impressive.

Personally I would only say Kareem, Shaq, Wilt, Magic, and Lebron are in my top 10, but wouldn't argue with anyone who had a different list with any combination of the seven I listed.

[SlimShady83]

How many players who played for the Lakers can be in the top 10?

Kareem, Magic, Shaq, Kobe ... Am I missing anyone?

I would say there are arguments for Kareem, Magic, Shaq, Kobe, Wilt, Lebron, and Jerry West which is pretty impressive.

Personally I would only say Kareem, Shaq, Wilt, Magic, and Lebron are in my top 10, but wouldn't argue with anyone who had a different list with any combination of the seven I listed.

I don't have Wilt In my top 10, but most do so fair enough.
I don't see West being In anyones top 10, most have him with In the top 20 somewhere though.

[Profound23]

Kareem, Magic, Shaq, Kobe ... Am I missing anyone?

I would say there are arguments for Kareem, Magic, Shaq, Kobe, Wilt, Lebron, and Jerry West which is pretty impressive.

Personally I would only say Kareem, Shaq, Wilt, Magic, and Lebron are in my top 10, but wouldn't argue with anyone who had a different list with any combination of the seven I listed.

I don't have Wilt In my top 10, but most do so fair enough.
I don't see West being In anyones top 10, most have him with In the top 20 somewhere though.

I am not saying as a Laker. Just saying how many players (if we took their entire NBA careers) that ever played for the Lakers could be considered top 10. I would say the floor on that is 4 with the ceiling being 7-8 which is impressive.