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One_and_Done wrote:

gswhoops wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:How many all-nba teams did Scottie Barnes or Wagner make prior to their extensions?

The poster I'm replying to specifically referred to Fox as an All NBA guard.

He's s borderline all-nba guard, but a pretty firm all-star calibre guy. In the East he'd make it every other year.

He's made a single all-nba 3rd team and only 1 other year even received votes -- and wasnt even close to making the team. His only All-star appearance was as an injury replacement. He isn't a firm all star at all and he certainly isn't a consistent, borderline all-nba guy.

Incredible deal for Fox.

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So Spurs are going for Fox-Wemby to try contend while they develop Harper-Castle-Sochan.

Then they have a few average wings: Vassell, Barnes, Keldon
And. A couple average bigs: Olynyk, Kornet


It does seem like they are trying to get spacing bigs to open driving lane for Fox. He should have his best season next season.

If Fox falters this season I could see this contract being worst in the league.

zimpy27 wrote:So Spurs are going for Fox-Wemby to try contend while they develop Harper-Castle-Sochan.

Then they have a few average wings: Vassell, Barnes, Keldon
And. A couple average bigs: Olynyk, Kornet


It does seem like they are trying to get spacing bigs to open driving lane for Fox. He should have his best season next season.

If Fox falters this season I could see this contract being worst in the league.

I think this is ultimately where my biggest issue with this deal is. The upside is basically that he reverts to his 22-23 form, and then he's just fairly paid (or arguably still slightly overpaid). The downside is that he continues to basically be a good but not great starting PG and this quickly becomes an albatross that hampers their ability to build around Wemby.

Barnes and Wagner are 5 year contracts not 4 year. Fox is making on average 9 million more a year than those guys during that extension.

And those guys have been in the league 4 years less than Fox.. seems a random comparison to me.

I don’t really see why Fox is a 30% max guy. I would’ve understood a 3yr max, it’s just the fourth year to me. Or a 2+po if Fox wanted that..

But I do think Fox is talented enough that he’ll be flipped similar to LaVine in 3 years? So not actually worst contract in the league, just never an asset unless Fox plays his best ball.

One_and_Done wrote:

gswhoops wrote:

Snakebites wrote:
Harper extension wouldn't kick in until after Fox's deal expires. Fox will be an expiring deal by the time a hypothetical Castle extension would kick in.

They'll be fine.

And if their "nightmare" scenario is that they have too many All NBA guards and can't pay them all, I think that's a pretty good floor.

Fox had one all NBA season, three seasons ago, that's looking more and more like an outlier as time passes. What do you think the odds he'll be an All-NBA player under his current deal?

And this deal will overlap with Wemby's extension in year 3, Wemby + Castle in year 4, and Wemby + Castle + Harper in year 5.

How many all-nba teams did Scottie Barnes or Wagner make prior to their extensions?

Those were rookie max deals (25% of the cap).

Your market price is what other teams are willing to pay.

There's going to be buyers remorse with this contract. Paying Max Money to a borderline all star in the new CBA isn't a smart thing to do. This also will hurt the development of Stephen Castle/Dylan Harper.

It’s fine

I dont know what's worse, this or the book extension. Both seem horrible.

gswhoops wrote:I assume this was in the can before the trade, but that is a LOT of money for a borderline All-Star level guy

This looks like an over pay!

HornetJail wrote:I still think he gets traded before the Spurs actually wind up paying out any of this contract, unless Castle and/or Harper lay an egg this year

You think Fox at $50+ million is going to be easy to move?

brackdan70 wrote:It’s fine

for Fox.

I’m glad Sac didn’t have to pay him that going forward. LaVine is movable in a year.

Celts17Pride wrote:

HornetJail wrote:I still think he gets traded before the Spurs actually wind up paying out any of this contract, unless Castle and/or Harper lay an egg this year

You think Fox at $50+ million is going to be easy to move?

Yeah I’ll take the under on that one too

gswhoops wrote:

zimpy27 wrote:So Spurs are going for Fox-Wemby to try contend while they develop Harper-Castle-Sochan.

Then they have a few average wings: Vassell, Barnes, Keldon
And. A couple average bigs: Olynyk, Kornet


It does seem like they are trying to get spacing bigs to open driving lane for Fox. He should have his best season next season.

If Fox falters this season I could see this contract being worst in the league.

I think this is ultimately where my biggest issue with this deal is. The upside is basically that he reverts to his 22-23 form, and then he's just fairly paid (or arguably still slightly overpaid). The downside is that he continues to basically be a good but not great starting PG and this quickly becomes an albatross that hampers their ability to build around Wemby.

I mean he should. The Spurs with all stretch bigs should be a field day for Castle, Harper and Fox to pressure the rim.

Fox really should be an all star this season.

jayjaysee wrote:Barnes and Wagner are 5 year contracts not 4 year. Fox is making on average 9 million more a year than those guys during that extension.

And those guys have been in the league 4 years less than Fox.. seems a random comparison to me.

I don’t really see why Fox is a 30% max guy. I would’ve understood a 3yr max though honestly. Or a 2+po if Fox wanted that instead..

But I do think Fox is talented enough that he’ll be flipped similar to LaVine in 3 years? So not actually worst contract in the league, just never an asset unless Fox plays his best ball.

He's not worse contract in the league now. But he could become that if he doesn't make the most of the spacing the Spurs will have. There is a world where Harper-Castle are a perfect fit and Fox plus-minus drops.

wemby wrote:Like others have said, this was probably a foregone conclusion at the time of the trade, so no surprises here. As long as Fox picks up where he left off the season before last (the last time he was actually healthy), he'll provide the Spurs some good years before they need to worry about paying his replacements in Castle and Harper.

the year before last he was a sub league average ts% volume scorer who didn't reasonably stretch the floor with a wildly inconsistent motor

He was 'maybe' anywhere worth close to this one year, the year before the year before last year (beam team year)

If this was from a promise upon his acquisition, so be it.

It almost has to be, because in their current situation, this is insanely stupid.

Fox is an undersized PG with the defensive issues that come from his stature. He’s good finisher, solid from midrange, and weak as you get further out. Solid passer, solid on turnovers, good not great from the line, and his draw rate is declining as he ages and pulls up more.

He’s had one year ever above league average TS, and probably a few others slightly above average for a PG. So, pretty good volume scorer, below average defense at his position, average playmaker. That’s not worth a 30% max extension today. It might have been worth one five years ago, but it DEFINITELY isn’t today.

He’ll be moveable in the sense that teams will take him, but not in the sense that he’ll return real value like Bane did. Lavine-ish. It’s too much money.

jowglenn wrote:

Klomp wrote:This is wild to me. I'm just not sure this is what's best for Victor, and shouldn't that be the goal for every move going forward?

It gives them a solid veteran all-star-ish lead guard for the next few years while Castle and Harper develop. Someone to win-now with Wemby, and then they can move him in two or three years if Castle and Harper are totally ready.

Imagine if they hadn't traded for Fox, and Wemby - already an all-nba player - was forced to languish with a rookie guard and a second year guard as his backcourt.

Seems very Sac Kingsish. Kings maxed Fox and when Hali came along no one wanted Fox on his contract and they were forced to trade Hali because not enough space for all their guards.