Are the Bulls back?

[GoBlue72391]

all I'm saying is that crowning these guys contenders or title favourites or what ever 'back' means may be a bit premature at this stage.

I don’t think that’s what people mean.

What do people mean by "back?" I'm taking it to mean a legit playoff team, at the least.

Things are looking good and trending up, but it's way too early to say. I think we can make the playoffs outright, but I think we can also be back in the play-in.

[pipfan]

It does show that depth really helps

Now, let's see which star (Lauri/Zion) is available by Jan and upgrade

[GoBlue72391]

Back to playing competent ball.
Back to having a chance at winning games.
Back to having some sort of future.

We have been playing dead end ball since 2018. This includes the little spurt at the beginning of 2021. The team was just hot shot making then (with a sprinkle of special defense).

These last two games haven't been because Coby/Lavine/ddr got hot. It's been solid competent team wins

If that's what back means then that's a really low bar for that term, and by that definition we've been back since like the second half of last season.

But that's not what I think of when I hear the phrase "We're back."

[Muzbar]

2 games out of 82 is absolutely wild to be making any kind of judgements whatsoever other than "We looked good these first 2 games, of which we won both, and there's plenty to be optimistic about."

Anything more than that is just downright nutty. We have 98% of the season remaining.

And somebody's going to need to define what "back" even means, but I suspect everyone will have a different answer to that and that's where a big part of the disconnect stems from.

Are we fun to watch and at the very least a competent team? Absolutely, and we have been since last season. If that's what is meant by "back", then we're absolutely back and have been for some time.

If it means we're back to national relevancy or back to being a playoff team and bypassing the play-in altogether or something else, then no, we're not back. Not yet.

I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking like this.

I'm not at all trying to be negative, it just seems to be a bit early. 20 games in this team could be 10-10, will they still be 'back' then? Obviously I don't hope for this to happen and looking at their next few games I think they're very winnable.

It's the same with Matas being pegged an All-star after a preseason and 1 regular season game, which he then follows up with fouling out in 12 minutes.

This team is still young, they're still going to hit some bumps along the way. Give them time.

[GoBlue72391]

2 games out of 82 is absolutely wild to be making any kind of judgements whatsoever other than "We looked good these first 2 games, of which we won both, and there's plenty to be optimistic about."

Anything more than that is just downright nutty. We have 98% of the season remaining.

And somebody's going to need to define what "back" even means, but I suspect everyone will have a different answer to that and that's where a big part of the disconnect stems from.

Are we fun to watch and at the very least a competent team? Absolutely, and we have been since last season. If that's what is meant by "back", then we're absolutely back and have been for some time.

If it means we're back to national relevancy or back to being a playoff team and bypassing the play-in altogether or something else, then no, we're not back. Not yet.

I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking like this.

I'm not at all trying to be negative, it just seems to be a bit early. 20 games in this team could be 10-10, will they still be 'back' then? Obviously I don't hope for this to happen and looking at their next few games I think they're very winnable.

It's the same with Matas being pegged an All-star after a preseason and 1 regular season game, which he then follows up with fouling out in 12 minutes.

This team is still young, they're still going to hit some bumps along the way. Give them time.

It's unfortunate that people with realist/level headed views sometimes can get misidentified as pessimistic simply because they're not optimistic enough.

If you had asked me my thoughts on the upcoming season a week or so ago I would have said I'm the most optimistic and excited I've been in years. Coby and Collins injuries admittedly took some of the wind out of my sails, but we've handled their absences well so far.

I'm not willing to proclaim this team anything after 2 games. If that makes me a pessimist or someone who doesn't know what they're talking about, then fine.

[Muzbar]

Back to playing competent ball.
Back to having a chance at winning games.
Back to having some sort of future.

We have been playing dead end ball since 2018. This includes the little spurt at the beginning of 2021. The team was just hot shot making then (with a sprinkle of special defense).

These last two games haven't been because Coby/Lavine/ddr got hot. It's been solid competent team wins

Thanks PaKii, I'm glad someone could at least answer what back meant.

If that's what it means then, yeah, I can agree on most of that. They are playing competent basketball, aren't reliant on a single player bailing them out as you mentioned. But they haven't exactly played any top rate teams yet (unless you include Orlando).

I do agree that there seems to be some sort of future for the first time in a long time.

[GoBlue72391]

All fair but the Bulls have now won 17 of their last 22 regular season games. Late last season was much of same where people were saying it was too small of a sample size.

At some point, its going to be a good sample size.

I consider that two separate things. It's two separate seasons after all. There's reasons to be optimistic for sure, which I am.

At some point it will be a good sample size, but 2 games into the season isn't that point yet.

We looked pretty much the same in preseason against the Cavs Nuggs and Wolves. I know it’s not the same as regular season but it’s still a data point.

Playing devil's advocate, we looked pretty bad in the play-in and a couple of the preseason games too.

[GoBlue72391]

There are instances of teams figuring it out in the second half of the season and carrying it over to the next season. Especially when you keep that group intact the year after.

There are also instances that show it was just a flash in the pan and it didn't really mean much.

I'm sure I'll be called a negative Nancy or pessimistic Pete, but I just don't think 2 games into the season anyone should be jumping the shark one way or another.

The Rockets have lost their first 2 games and their last 3 games of last season. Are they destined for the lottery?

All I'm saying is wait maybe 20 games before making such 'claims'.

If you watch the full games it gives a lot of context and nuance.

Rockets lost their PG and they will now struggle. They can’t shoot. At all.

Folks that are speaking high about where we are seem to be looking at the nuance.

Red is one of the best posters on this site for many years. He knows what’s up.

I watch full games. I'm speaking high about the team. I'm just stopping short of saying "We're back" after 2 games (or 2 games + the last quarter of last season or whatever, because I consider those 2 separate things).

This is somehow an unpopular opinion or even pessimistic.

Implying the only people who would disagree probably aren't watching full games is insulting.

Who is really the nuanced one here? Probably the people not overreacting one way or another to 2 games (or 2 games + some preseason + the end of last season except the play-in).

Saying this team is back is not nuanced. Saying this team sucks isn't nuanced either. Being optimistic but not ready to proclaim this team anything one way or another is far more nuanced than the other two.

[DuckIII]

all I'm saying is that crowning these guys contenders or title favourites or what ever 'back' means may be a bit premature at this stage.

I don’t think that’s what people mean.

What exactly does 'back' mean Duck? I'm genuinely asking.

Did anyone say title favorites or title contenders?

I interpreted it to mean not the shyte sandwich we’ve been eating for 3 years. Something you can actually enjoy and be optimistic about without being delusional.

[GoBlue72391]

I don’t think that’s what people mean.

What exactly does 'back' mean Duck? I'm genuinely asking.

Did anyone say title favorites or title contenders?

I interpreted it to mean not the shyte sandwich we’ve been eating for 3 years. Something you can actually enjoy and be optimistic about without being delusional.

That's old news. We've been back by that definition for awhile now, since at least partially through last season.

[PaKii94]

Back to playing competent ball.
Back to having a chance at winning games.
Back to having some sort of future.

We have been playing dead end ball since 2018. This includes the little spurt at the beginning of 2021. The team was just hot shot making then (with a sprinkle of special defense).

These last two games haven't been because Coby/Lavine/ddr got hot. It's been solid competent team wins

If that's what back means then that's a really low bar for that term, and by that definition we've been back since like the second half of last season.

But that's not what I think of when I hear the phrase "We're back."

I agree it's a low bar. But for me being back is the inflection point. Before this we were stuck. Hitting a dead end like I said. Now we have a chance to grow. Yes they haven't proven anything yet but it's refreshing to see a team playing to win and not shoot itself in the foot. Our players are young enough that they have a chance to grow and improve.

As for the second half of the season, people were writing it off as a fluke and I was hesitant too. Because of giddey's hot shooting and coby's hot shooting. What changed my opinion these last two games have been because we are missing zac, Vuc is playing competently. Buz was fouled out. Coby is out. Giddey hasn't been as hot shooting and yet they have played competently and won.

It should only grow from here.

Back to playing competent ball.
Back to having a chance at winning games.
Back to having some sort of future.

We have been playing dead end ball since 2018. This includes the little spurt at the beginning of 2021. The team was just hot shot making then (with a sprinkle of special defense).

These last two games haven't been because Coby/Lavine/ddr got hot. It's been solid competent team wins

Thanks PaKii, I'm glad someone could at least answer what back meant.

If that's what it means then, yeah, I can agree on most of that. They are playing competent basketball, aren't reliant on a single player bailing them out as you mentioned. But they haven't exactly played any top rate teams yet (unless you include Orlando).

I do agree that there seems to be some sort of future for the first time in a long time.

Agreed we haven't really played any top teams yet but I am not looking at it from the opponent side. I'm looking at how WE are playing. For years I've been getting more and more pessimistic seeing incompetent ball. This is different. Even if the team starts losing/hits a rough patch I still will be satisfied if they continue to play hard.

This team has flaws still but we are past the inflection point. Team can be grown and improved from this base.


I think you two are taking the "we're back" too literally. We aren't MJ or a contender but at least we are back enough to being respected and not a pushover. It's a "new hope"

[Seccci]

The way I see what "back" means in relation to other teams. Previous years bulls were simply irrelevant. No matter what hot streak, no matter how many points DeMar or lavine or Coby or even Lauri scored, it kind of sort of meant zero, as everyone knew who these guys were, when the going got rough- they disappeared.

This team got hot at end of last season and everyone rightfully assumed it's the same ole bulls, last month win streak to ruin their draft position- let's be real, we all thought that hahaha

What back means to me, is that these guys are showing us that it might not have been hot streak, or bum slaying, but their base performance, back to new normal, this is standard.

Go read pistons or magic forum post game, they are upset because they still view bulls from that previous irrelevance standpoint, so loss to bulls is upset

What back means is, bulls are back to standard, where wins are expected and loss is upset to us.
( last time we could say that we had rose, jimmy, Noah, taj, pau)
so iwelcome bulls being "back"
Heck, my call on this is: "finally"

[greenwing]

Losers are off the team. We are finally playing competent basketball. If Vuc can be a net zero (or better) then this team can continue to win. It's refreshing to see

I still want Vuc gone. Doubt it will happen though.

Oh me too 100% but the negative feedback loop from having 3 losers was too much. This team can handle one with their depth as long as billy doesn't give Vuc entitlement mins when he's playing poorly

If we continue to win and he’s a positive impact player then why? He fits the roster as currently constructed. He didn’t fit with Lavine and DeRozan. If we start to fall apart or get hammered with injuries I can understand moving on from him. But there’s no reason to at this point when he’s playing well and is helping the team win games.

[PaKii94]

I still want Vuc gone. Doubt it will happen though.

Oh me too 100% but the negative feedback loop from having 3 losers was too much. This team can handle one with their depth as long as billy doesn't give Vuc entitlement mins when he's playing poorly

If we continue to win and he’s a positive impact player then why? He fits the roster as currently constructed. He didn’t fit with Lavine and DeRozan. If we start to fall apart or get hammered with injuries I can understand moving on from him. But there’s no reason to at this point when he’s playing well and is helping the team win games.

Cause I don't think he will continue to play this well. I would love to be proven wrong. The other thing is his defense will also be an anchor. Right now while we are getting back to relevancy his play is fine but once the team is ready for the next step up towards contention he will need to be upgraded.

For now it's fine. I want him to keep it up and to do it against legit centers and we can revisit his situation

[Muzbar]

I think you two are taking the "we're back" too literally. We aren't MJ or a contender but at least we are back enough to being respected and not a pushover. It's a "new hope"

I wouldn't say we were taking it too literally. We just legitimately never had anything to go off what the OPs interpretation of what 'back' meant.

I agree that there is definitely 'new hope' for the first time in a while.

Did anyone say title favorites or title contenders?

I interpreted it to mean not the shyte sandwich we’ve been eating for 3 years. Something you can actually enjoy and be optimistic about without being delusional.

No, no one said title favourites or contenders, nobody really specified anything so it was pretty open to interpretation.

If your understanding is correct, then, yes, I agree. It's great to have something to really root for now and for the future.

[coldfish]

At the end of the day, the Bulls are a team that Vegas had predicted at 32.5 wins that looks like a 44 win team. That's a 44 win team that is young, has all its picks and has tons of capspace and no real bad contracts. It also is kind of fun to watch stylistically.

I think its fair for fans to be happy right now, given where the team has been for years.

[coldfish]

There are going to be tough stretches and bad games. When that happens, threads like these will get grief.

That said, the Bulls have a lot working for them. They are trying and they have good systems on both sides of the court. They are big and relatively athletic. They are deep. They seem to have a veteran confidence to them that you don't get all the time so they don't seem to panic.

This isn't a recipe for a title team or something. Not enough top end talent. That said, I feel pretty good about top 6 right now.

They're decent. What's interesting is, looking at the box score, there's no reason to think the Bulls would have won today. The bench outscored the starters. The issue, same as forever, is there's just no big time star. It seems like they've finally rounded the corner in terms of shedding negative assets, but it's still tough to see how they will acquire the type of player that can finally elevate the team to a serious contender.

Watching the game, the Bulls badly outplayed the Magic. Orlando got a ton of random offensive rebounds and put backs to keep the game close but Chicago was generating wide open looks and layups all game long where Orlando was getting everything contested and just hoping for fouls and putbacks to keep them in the game.

.......

Side note: The Bulls are 4th in 3p% defense right now. That sounds like a fluke but its not. They were 2nd last year. Its a real point of emphasis for Billy to anticipate 3p shooters and get out on them.

[Mindcrime]

I would likely revisit that thread in April and we are neck to neck for that final play-in spot.

[Red Larrivee]

There are also instances that show it was just a flash in the pan and it didn't really mean much.

I'm sure I'll be called a negative Nancy or pessimistic Pete, but I just don't think 2 games into the season anyone should be jumping the shark one way or another.

The Rockets have lost their first 2 games and their last 3 games of last season. Are they destined for the lottery?

All I'm saying is wait maybe 20 games before making such 'claims'.

Nobody's saying that the Bulls are contenders now. They're going to get their ass cut during different points of the season still. 2-0 isn't really the focus here. The discussion is the optics of a 10+ deep team that can improve defensively, has ascending young players, a healthy payroll, and could possibly become an appealing situation.

Bulls have now won 19 of their last 29 regular season games going back to the ASB. They just beat two very good teams who they were underdogs against. Maybe you could point to those teams shooting 20% from 3 as the reason, but the Bulls were also 3rd in opp. 3P% last season. They just looked flat out better than both teams and controlled the majority of the game.

After an entire offseason of deflecting win and player improvement to tanking teams and teams not trying, they're picking up where they left off.

[Red Larrivee]

At the end of the day, the Bulls are a team that Vegas had predicted at 32.5 wins that looks like a 44 win team. That's a 44 win team that is young, has all its picks and has tons of capspace and no real bad contracts. It also is kind of fun to watch stylistically.

I think its fair for fans to be happy right now, given where the team has been for years.

Plus, the Bulls have not looked like this to start the season in a while. They're usually getting stomped out by any offense with a pulse.

They're 1st in defensive rating and 3P defense right now. Depth has been a huge issue for this team the last few years. But now, the Bulls can go 10+ deep on any given night. And, we're still missing White and Collins.