Sixers @ Bobcats 1/26/08

[freshie2]

Jason Richardson is 6'4.75" standing reach of 8'6.5"
Iguodala is 6' 5.75" standing reach of 8' 9.5"

That's a 3 inch difference. That's precisely what I believed it to be. I said J Rich was 6'3" and I knew that Iggy is 6'6" the standing reach supports the same difference.

It's more an issue of Iguodala being aggressive vs Richardson playing no defense.

As far as Iguodala vs Wallace, I didn't see anything to substantiate your claim...I'm OK with Iguodala getting a 6 year $57 million deal similar to Wallace. As I've mentioned before, the first big deal for many of these players is a bit of a gamble...I still like the odds I'm getting if Iguodala is signed to that type of deal. Wallace is aggressive and athletic (reason why the Sixers coveted him, only to have the kings draft him before their opportunity), but doesn't have the ball skills Iguodala does.

Iguodala is not perfect, but aside from about 3 all around swing players(Kobe, Lebron, Wade), you aren't finding a perfect combo swing player. Iguodala falls right into that next category.

[SendEm]

-

Iguodala is not perfect, but aside from about 3 all around swing players(Kobe, Lebron, Wade), you aren't finding a perfect combo swing player. Iguodala falls right into that next category.

I'm fine with Iggy getting a 6 year $57 million deal as you said above. The 5 year $57 million deal that he was offered and turned down is the one that I want no parts of as a 6ers enthusiast.

That "next category" that you speak of must include rest of the NBA outside of those three players because I personally grade players like this

Exceptional: Kobe, Lebron, Wade
Excellent: Caron Butler, Joe Johnson, Paul Pierce
Very Good: Kevin Martin, Josh Howard
Good: Iggy, G. Wallace, Steven Jackson(in crunch time he is Excellent)
Average: Shane Battier, Mike Dunleavy. F. Garcia
Poor:Quinton Ross, J.R. Smith

[Mik317]

wow....I.I agree with you..........is it snowing now?......That's about where I rank Iggy as well.

[tk76]

-= original quote snipped =-


I personally grade players like this

Exceptional: Kobe, Lebron, Wade
Excellent: Caron Butler, Joe Johnson, Paul Pierce
Very Good: Kevin Martin, Josh Howard
Good: Iggy, G. Wallace, Steven Jackson(in crunch time he is Excellent)
Average: Shane Battier, Mike Dunleavy. F. Garcia
Poor:Quinton Ross, J.R. Smith

My only difference is that there is not enough to separate the Good and Very good players on your list. Howard has the benefit of playing alongside other good players, so his weaknesses are less evident. Martin is no better or worse than Wallace or Iguodala- he just have different strengths (well, just shooting.) He does not change a game more or less than the other two.

Wallace is about 2 years older than Iguodala, but both are still improving, and have a lot of good years ahead before there athletic ability starts to diminish. Jackson is 6 years older than Iguodala- and is in his prime, but probably will not get that much better.


BTW- Okafor is less than 8 months younger than Sam. Okafor is the much more fundamentally sound and productive player- but its interesting how people see Okafor as a young up and coming player, while Sam is seen as such a late bloomer with his improvement this year.

[tk76]

How is this team only 2 games out of the playoffs? 2 games out of missing the lottery, and this is after our wort stretch of losses all year?

Please don't let us be past buy a bunch of tanking teams gain. Watch out for a rapidly falling Nets team...

[SendEm]

Wow interesting point you made about Sam and Okafor BUT it is obvious that Okafor has a higher basketbell IQ and he is already a better player. But people forget that Sammy didn't pick up a basketball till the age of 13. Normally players that end up in the NBA are already good enough at the age of 13 to be the best player in every pick-up game they participate in even with adults. Sammy was strictly a non english speaking soccer player at that age. With that said I always thought that Sammy would continue to develop because I've always known that he didn't touch a basketball till high school.

Martin is clearly better than Iggy I think that you are giving Iggy too much credit for assists that he wouldn't have if he played with more talented players or either points that he wouldn't have if he played with more talented players. Iggy wouldn't handle the ball nearly as much on a talented team like Sac. He would be expected to shoot, score, or finish. Iggy here gets to "freelance" because we don't have much of an offensive system and talent. Martin is as good of a passer as Iggy, he just doesn't have to pass as much because he can dominate his defender and score instead of passing the ball off.

[76erinSJ]

So if Iggy did have better players to pass to who could shoot the ball at a much better clip then the players he passes to now he wouldnt have more assists? What happen last year when he had Smith in the post to pass to? His assists were up? Now he has Reggie Evans and Smith to past to who cant make jumpers at all.I know you cant read this but your logic in you last post is invalid.

[roseorbust]

-= original quote snipped =-



Obviously trading Korver for Giricek and a first was a desperate attempt to win now. Duh.

we need to make more types of moves like this. But just trading korver isn't enough. Ed believes that we don't need to change anything else and that's what frustrates me. and to CPops57, what makes me think that is the article I posted yesterday, were it says Ed says no moves are in the works.

[underpressure]

You cannot be serious if you consider Martin's passing abilities as good as Andre's. First of all the assist numbers speak volumes and second Martin is surrounded with better player who would convert the passes into points. 2 Assists per game are just pathetic under those circumstances.
If Andre is surrounded with better players, he will certainly not be our main guy in the offense but he will have it easier to create for himself and for others. Just imagine a low post threat who would open up so much for Iguodala. I am sure he would be playing even better.

[76erinSJ]

All you have to do is look at Iggys assists totals last year when we had Joe Smith and Korver here.

[freshie2]

-= original quote snipped =-



I'm fine with Iggy getting a 6 year $57 million deal as you said above. The 5 year $57 million deal that he was offered and turned down is the one that I want no parts of as a 6ers enthusiast.

That "next category" that you speak of must include rest of the NBA outside of those three players because I personally grade players like this

Exceptional: Kobe, Lebron, Wade
Excellent: Caron Butler, Joe Johnson, Paul Pierce
Very Good: Kevin Martin, Josh Howard
Good: Iggy, G. Wallace, Steven Jackson(in crunch time he is Excellent)
Average: Shane Battier, Mike Dunleavy. F. Garcia
Poor:Quinton Ross, J.R. Smith

I don't have too much of an issue here, other than my 'grouping' is much different. I'm looking at versatile swing players, of which I think of 2-3 combos...to be in the 2, they have to be able to handle the ball well enough not to just be a SF who can shoot the 3. I'm OK with JJ, Jackson, Dunleavy being included in the discussion but I think most of the others, while your rankings are probably about right, are more either a pure SG or a pure SF.

One of the reasons I think Iguodala is more than a dime a dozen swing player is his versatility. I know I'm in the minority on this opinion, but Thad develops into a solid 3, and you get a very good SG, I can see Iguodala filling an upgraded Ron Harper role as a point forward, even if it's only for stretches in the game. He's being pushed to be the primary scorer on this team, but his greatest value is his versatility. You can win with a great big man (many examples), with great swing players (Bulls), or with a very defensive based/solid offensively 1-6 (Pistons). I don't see how Iguodala is a misfit in any of those formulas.

Iguodala is not perfect, but I haven't seen him stop improving yet either, and should not be in the Jamario Moon type discussions.

[SendEm]

Martin's role on his team and in this league is to score and shoot. Even if he were put in a position to "freelance" like Iggy his assists would still potentially not be as high as Iggy because he would be scoring BUCKETS. But he is every bit as good the passer he just is talented enough not to have to bail himself out by consistently making unnecessary passes that eventually convert into assists.

Everyone feels that Iggy had a good game last night because he scored BUCKETS. Iggy averages 2.7 more assists than Martin while Martin averages 5 more points in 2 less minutes per game and shoots higher percentages from all categories while having a higher efficiency number. There is NOTHING noteworthy about Iggy's passing abilities. He will NEVER be the type of player like Grant Hill, Lebron, Scottie Pippen to average over 7 assists. Iggy is just a WILLING passer more so than a good one. Kevin Martin is a special player he is in the mold of Ray Allen and Reggie Miller. Iggy is really just another good player that will be forgotten.

[SendEm]

You overrate his "versatility". He is literally a tweener moreso than a versatile SG/SF. If Iggy could actually guard the extremes of both positions I would agree, but he's not like Scottie Pippen or Shawn Merion who have the foot speed and natural strength to guard players of various positions. We have already seen that Iggy doesn't have what it takes physically to guard players like D.Wade, Tayshawn Prince, G. Wallace, and Lebron. His defensive abilities are now overrated because it is no longer based on reality, just on an accepted perception. Iggy is good at defending players more like himself like Paul Pierce, Kobe, Steven Jackson. If a good player at SG/SF possesses any physical gifts that are greater than Iggy's then Iggy will have a tough night guarding him. Whether it is strength, speed, agility, height anything.

[Sixersftw]

can't even guard lebron and wade....f'in bum.

[tk76]

With his shooting ability Martin should pass less and score more. I am also very impressed that Martin is #2 in the NBA in Free throws made/game. That means he must be doing more than just spotting up.

[SendEm]

With his shooting ability Martin should pass less and score more. I am also very impressed that Martin is #2 in the NBA in Free throws made/game. That means he must be doing more than just spotting up.

There are just too many FANS on this forum. People are treating Iggy's passing ability as if it were on par with Boris Diaw or someone with a noteworthy natural passing ability. They look at the stats and say "2.6 more assists per game is as good as 5 more points..." Totally dismissing the differences in shooting percentage.

Iggy is a WILLING passer not a noteworthy good one.

[tk76]

Players have different strengths, and should be judged on what their value would be to a good team. I don't expect Martin to be a set-up man or great defender.

Kobe is so great because he really can do everything well (his only flawi s his personality.) He is an all time great- even though he can't get far in the playoffs without a good big.

There are only a handful of players at that level, and I don't judge most players as that lacking when they aren't good in all areas.

[76erinSJ]

Martin is not in the mold of Ray Allen or Reggie Miller. They were spot up shooters. Martin is more in the mold of AI in a bigger body in my opinion.

[Sixercise]

Seriously, who needs more player comparisons? Iggy is what he is and the sky is still the limit for him (he's only 24). Gosh.

[The Sixer Fixer]

Martin is not in the mold of Ray Allen or Reggie Miller. They were spot up shooters. Martin is more in the mold of AI in a bigger body in my opinion.

Martin IS a spot up shooter. He's also very good on the drive to the basket (thus the high FT), but clearly one of his strengths is spot up shooting. I really wonder if people ever actually watch a guy play before they comment about his style.