Debate:Should Beasley go #1

[_BBIB_]

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Dumb post. Sorry, but Beasley wouldnt have gone ahead of Durant, and he sure as hell wouldnt have challenged Oden for the top overall pick. You cant judge Durant on this partial season alone. He is being used stupidly by the Sonics; he is not a shooting guard. They surrounded him with garbage players, so defenses focus solely on him and Carlesimo as given him the green light to throw up crappy shots left and right. Also, I dont think this draft is that good at all. It actually seems really weak to me. Beasley is good, and as far as im concerned he is #1 no questions asked, but if I had to pick him or Durant, I'd still take KD all day, every day.

Well NBA scouts would feel differently.

Remember Durant's impressive Freshman year? It's actually being topped by Beasley.

He certainly would have gone ahead of Durant because he plays like less of a tweener, is a post player (which is very valuable) and he's been flat out more efficient.

He also has more of an NBA body.


He without question would have gone ahead of Durant

[moocow007]

I've seen 2 K-State games and in both of them Beasley has looked just fine on defense. OBVIOUSLY his defense is not on par with his offense but, based on just those 2 games, I don't see where the idea that he's anything worse than an average defender (and his lateral quickness was more than fine in both games and he defended the post well against taller players more than fine) comes from. IMHO it's the same head of steam that has gotten people to actually believe that DeAndre Jordan is a young Dwight Howard. It just seems like people get an idea in there head and it just takes off like wildfire. A shutdown defender? No. But a subpar defender? No to that as well. His strength is offense (and it's a HUGE strength) but just because his defense is not where his offense is doesn't mean that it's any worse than any of the other lottery guys (who don't have anywhere near his offensive capabilities).

[moocow007]

I like the Derrick Coleman reference that was somewhere in this thread. Coleman's problem was with work ethic. Any idea if Beasley is a worker?

Beasley does not seem to have a problem with his work ethic at all.

From how well conditioned he appears to be, how much effort he puts in when he's on the court, how much more developed his skills are than every other freshmen in the country...I would say that work ethic isn't a problem.

[cdash]

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Well NBA scouts would feel differently.

Remember Durant's impressive Freshman year? It's actually being topped by Beasley.

He certainly would have gone ahead of Durant because he plays like less of a tweener, is a post player (which is very valuable) and he's been flat out more efficient.

He also has more of an NBA body.


He without question would have gone ahead of Durant

You know, I am really not sure they would feel differently. Beasley has character issues, and he plays on a worse team than KD did. Outside of Beasley and Walker, that team is complete and utter crap. He has to put up those numbers to keep them competitive.

I dont necessarily think Beasley has more of an "NBA body". One of the things that made Durant such a unique and intriging prospect is that his skill set is completely unique in relation to his body build. Beasley may have more of a defined position in the pros than KD, but not necessarily a better NBA body.

I think at the end of the day, KD would get taken before Beasley. No one questions his heart or work ethic, and if he ever puts all his tools together he has a chance to be a one of a kind player, and thats something you cant say about Beasley.

[theGreatRC]

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You know, I am really not sure they would feel differently. Beasley has character issues, and he plays on a worse team than KD did. Outside of Beasley and Walker, that team is complete and utter crap. He has to put up those numbers to keep them competitive.

Durant had character issues, but no one seems to talk about that. Why? Everyone is all over Beasley's supposed "attitude", but Durant had to change schools almost as many times as Beasley did in high school.

I think at the end of the day, KD would get taken before Beasley. No one questions his heart or work ethic, and if he ever puts all his tools together he has a chance to be a one of a kind player, and thats something you cant say about Beasley.

This is debatable. If Beasley put up any of the monster games he had this season in the tourney, and we take Durant's tourney performance into account, it could go either way. Some people could take Beasley because of his body type and diverse offensive game, or they could take Durant based on his height and length and ability to play three positions.

[DanTown8587]

One, Scouts find it hard to believe that someone could average that many rebounds per game and have work ethic problems. (As Chad Ford said in a podcast a few months back). Second, the ability to play the three or four is seen as a positive because I think he could play both efficiently depending on the other team. Third, how can you pass on a guy who has the NCAA record for double-doubles for a freshman, on a team that is built around him. I mean, Bill Walker is the only other guy who has anywhere near the same amount of talent as Beasley, yet Beasley faces double teams and gets amazing numbers. Fifth, Durant is MUCH worse defensively than Beasley, which is why Durant plays the two guard spot: he would get abused by either 3s or 4s. And finally, their is no other great prospect who puts up the same type of numbers that would make me risk not taking Beasley. The only team that could pass on Beasley at #1 is Seattle so they could take Rose, because Rose playing the PG spot is better than Beasley playing the 4 is Seattle.

[cdash]

I'm not sure Durant is much worse than Beasley defensively. Neither one of them is particularly good. The reason Durant is playing the 2 right now is because: Carlesimo is a moron, and he doesnt have any muscle at all.

I also think Miami could pass on Beasley for Rose. I dont think they would, but it wouldnt be a huge shock if they did. Indiana would be another team that might take Rose over Beasley.

PS: When did Durant ever have character problems? Changing high schools isnt necessarily a red flag for character issues.

[moocow007]

One, Scouts find it hard to believe that someone could average that many rebounds per game and have work ethic problems. (As Chad Ford said in a podcast a few months back). Second, the ability to play the three or four is seen as a positive because I think he could play both efficiently depending on the other team. Third, how can you pass on a guy who has the NCAA record for double-doubles for a freshman, on a team that is built around him. I mean, Bill Walker is the only other guy who has anywhere near the same amount of talent as Beasley, yet Beasley faces double teams and gets amazing numbers. Fifth, Durant is MUCH worse defensively than Beasley, which is why Durant plays the two guard spot: he would get abused by either 3s or 4s. And finally, their is no other great prospect who puts up the same type of numbers that would make me risk not taking Beasley. The only team that could pass on Beasley at #1 is Seattle so they could take Rose, because Rose playing the PG spot is better than Beasley playing the 4 is Seattle.

Just to add to the Beasley and double teams thing...of the games I've watched teams have not only doubled him but they've changed their entire defensive schemes (i.e. what they usually run) to try to custom tailor it to stop him. He get's doubled, he'll get tripled, opposing teams have put in guys who's only real job is to push him and hit him and try to get him to commit technical fouls or otherwise get him flustered, he's had guys drapped over his back almost quite literally for long stretches. And teams know what you just said that aside from him and Walker that team is just pure crap (so you really don't have to worry about anyone else). Hasn't worked yet. I do not recall Durant getting the amount of attention from opposing defenses that Beasley has had. To be honest the fact that he's scoring as much as he does and as efficiently as he does is amazing considering what he faces.

[theGreatRC]

I'm not sure Durant is much worse than Beasley defensively. Neither one of them is particularly good. The reason Durant is playing the 2 right now is because: Carlesimo is a moron, and he doesnt have any muscle at all.

I also think Miami could pass on Beasley for Rose. I dont think they would, but it wouldnt be a huge shock if they did. Indiana would be another team that might take Rose over Beasley.

PS: When did Durant ever have character problems? Changing high schools isnt necessarily a red flag for character issues.

Well that is basically the same reason Beasley is known for "character" issues, is because he had to change high schools, it wasn't by choice.

Durant also was kicked out of multiple schools and had to change 3~4 during his HS days.

The only other thing I know about Beasley and his "issues" is that he used to have tagging competitions(Spray paint) on cars, and he got busted.

Other than that, I have heard nothing but good things about Beasley from his coaches and every time he is on ESPN, the commentators rave about him and that he is a good kid.

[_BBIB_]

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You know, I am really not sure they would feel differently. Beasley has character issues, and he plays on a worse team than KD did. Outside of Beasley and Walker, that team is complete and utter crap. He has to put up those numbers to keep them competitive.

I dont necessarily think Beasley has more of an "NBA body". One of the things that made Durant such a unique and intriging prospect is that his skill set is completely unique in relation to his body build. Beasley may have more of a defined position in the pros than KD, but not necessarily a better NBA body.

I think at the end of the day, KD would get taken before Beasley. No one questions his heart or work ethic, and if he ever puts all his tools together he has a chance to be a one of a kind player, and thats something you cant say about Beasley.

Im not sure you're being objective.

There is no reason why scouts wouldn't have Beasley ahead of Durant when they look at as impressive as Durant was, Beasley has been even more impressive. Dude has already broken the Freshman double-doubles record and we still have several games to go.

As far as him having the advantage of being the only player on his team? You might as well call UT Durant's team last season with the way he hoisted 18 shots a game.

And the fact that Beasley is the centerpiece of KSU makes things very difficult for him when he is shaded sometimes by THREE defenders.

You don't think Beasley has more of an "NBA" body? Are you joking? Kevin Durant is not only skinny, but he's not even wiry strong. He's weak as hell right now.


Beasley was the more efficient player in school and he should have no problem being the more efficient player in the pros.

[DaGoodz]

Durant was good, but I don't ever remember seeing teams play defense in college the way they do against Beasley.
He's like the college version of Shaq, teams just focus on him. As soon as he touches the ball, 4 defenders come his way. I have never seen nothing like this before in college

[BigSlam]

Beasley reminds me of Bosh - if Bosh was as strong as an ox.

[DaGoodz]

People make too much of a deal of Beasley's defense. I think his defense is underated. He plays really good defense in the paint. I have never seen his man abuse him on the defensive end. He is sometimes slow getting on the perimeter to defend a 3 pointer though. But most PF's have that same problem.

And he looks tall to me. He stood next to Darrell Arthur in the Kansas game, and he stood taller than Darrell. And Darrell is suppose to be 6'9

[AbdicatedReign]

Beasley is a monster. Yeah, he needs to work on his defense but, so does Lebron.

[_BBIB_]

Beasley is a legit 6'9 w/shoes on.

He's certainly got enough size to play the 4.


I think he just needs to work on his shooting outside the paint.

[BigSlam]

I think he just needs to work on his shooting outside the paint.

That and keeping his head in the game and his intensity up. He's improved a LOT in this area as the season has progressed, but even last night when Kansas went on their run in the 2nd and Beasley was getting iced a little and the ball not coming to him, he stopped running the court as hard, started hanging out by the 3pt arc, had the ball knocked out of his hands etc.

To his credit, that only lasted about 4 mins, then he got his head back into the game and finished strongly.

[cdash]

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Im not sure you're being objective.

There is no reason why scouts wouldn't have Beasley ahead of Durant when they look at as impressive as Durant was, Beasley has been even more impressive. Dude has already broken the Freshman double-doubles record and we still have several games to go.

As far as him having the advantage of being the only player on his team? You might as well call UT Durant's team last season with the way he hoisted 18 shots a game.

And the fact that Beasley is the centerpiece of KSU makes things very difficult for him when he is shaded sometimes by THREE defenders.

You don't think Beasley has more of an "NBA" body? Are you joking? Kevin Durant is not only skinny, but he's not even wiry strong. He's weak as hell right now.


Beasley was the more efficient player in school and he should have no problem being the more efficient player in the pros.

How am I not being objective? I am not a Texas fan, I am not a Sonics fan, Durant isnt on my fantasy team or anything...I mean, just because my opinion doesn't mirror yours doesnt mean I am not being objective. Scouts dont necessarily look at things the way you and I do. Numbers aren't the end all, be all for them. I realize Beasley has broken the freshman double-double record (You guys remind me of that in every single post--I think I get it). I realize defenses swarm him. I dont really know why you guys think I am dogging him, I think he is easily the best player in this draft class. I just dont drool over him as much as you guys.

Durant shot 18 times a game because he is extremely shot happy, and Barnes wasnt going to tell him to stop. I figured NBA coaches would put an end to that, but his team is so awful that he has to hoist up crummy shots, and Carlesimo seems to have no problems with it either.

When I said that I dont "necessarily" think Beasley has more of an NBA body, you took that the wrong way. He has a prototypical NBA body. No question about it. I never said he didnt. You like to pick and choose what you wish to focus on in my posts. All I said was that Durant has a very unique body style, in the fact that he is very long and could potentially present matchup problems galore. Does he have a prototype NBA body? Absolutely not. Does Beasley? You betcha. Does Durant need to hit the weight room? Sure. I will say that I do think Durant has a higher ceiling than Beasley. I am not saying he is better than Beasley or that Beasley wont be a better pro when its said and done, I just think KD has more of a chance to be special.

[_BBIB_]

How am I not being objective? I am not a Texas fan, I am not a Sonics fan, Durant isnt on my fantasy team or anything...I mean, just because my opinion doesn't mirror yours doesnt mean I am not being objective. Scouts dont necessarily look at things the way you and I do. Numbers aren't the end all, be all for them. I realize Beasley has broken the freshman double-double record (You guys remind me of that in every single post--I think I get it). I realize defenses swarm him. I dont really know why you guys think I am dogging him, I think he is easily the best player in this draft class. I just dont drool over him as much as you guys.

Durant shot 18 times a game because he is extremely shot happy, and Barnes wasnt going to tell him to stop. I figured NBA coaches would put an end to that, but his team is so awful that he has to hoist up crummy shots, and Carlesimo seems to have no problems with it either.

When I said that I dont "necessarily" think Beasley has more of an NBA body, you took that the wrong way. He has a prototypical NBA body. No question about it. I never said he didnt. You like to pick and choose what you wish to focus on in my posts. All I said was that Durant has a very unique body style, in the fact that he is very long and could potentially present matchup problems galore. Does he have a prototype NBA body? Absolutely not. Does Beasley? You betcha. Does Durant need to hit the weight room? Sure. I will say that I do think Durant has a higher ceiling than Beasley. I am not saying he is better than Beasley or that Beasley wont be a better pro when its said and done, I just think KD has more of a chance to be special.

I don't understand how I misinterpreted your post. You hinted that Beasley has to put up big numbers because their team is crap. That sounds like suggesting that his numbers aren't as meaningful as Durant because Durant had more talent on his team to distribute the wealth.

But that is a BS notion because Durant took 18.5 shots per game so it's not like having more talent on his team hurt his numbers with that many shot attempts.

If anything it made the looks he had easier.

Beasley is just a flat out more efficient scorer and a better rebounder.


It's not about numbers, it's about the fact that Beasley has maturity in the post beyond his years. There is no reason why he shouldn't be a more efficient scorer than Durant and there is no reason why he shouldn't grab more offense and defensive boards.


I admit Durant could have a higher ceiling because of he is longer than Beasley and has more break down ability off the dribble.


But IMO Beasley is more likely to reach his ceiling. I can't see Durant getting KG strong and pulling down 10+ boards a game.


Beasley is more likely of being the 20/10 guy

[Milkdud]

As sick as Beasley's number have been this season the couple K-State games ive seen he could have been even better if his teammates didn't suck to high heaven. There are countless times he run the floor gets good post position and watches his team fail to get him the ball and toss up a crap shot. (Honestly as amazed as I am with how good Beasley is im more amazed at how horrible Bill Walker is.) Beasley IMO is clearly the #1 pick unless your team is dying for a PG, and even then I think that team would be better of trading down the pick to get value and add a good PG.

[cdash]

See, I didnt mean that to impress scouts or whatever that Beasley has to be up tremendous numbers because his team is crap. I was just saying that K-State really has no other options past Beasley and Walker. Take it how you will.

On the subject of Beasley, I was reading Bill Simmons' links of the day today and came across a story about Beasley that really makes the argument that he doesnt have character problems tough to support. Here is a link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01466.html