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Certainly, the only team I forsee having the means to acquire Rip Hamilton is Utah. Given their payroll for this year, they might as well contend for a top 4 seed in the West.

Additionally, I think Detroit would be best to acquire further cap room flexibility over the next 2 seasons.

Based on that, i'll offer the following

To Detroit
-Andrei Kirlenko (2 years, $34 million)
-Ronnie Brewer (1 year, $2.7 million, plus QO)
-Matt Harpring (1 year, $6.5 million)

To Utah
-Rip Hamilton (4 years, $48 million)
-Tayshaun Prince (2 years, $21.5 million)

Why?
-Detroit needs to ultimately start Gordon and create cap room as this is ultimately a rebuulding year. Brewer is a short term backup compliment SG to Gordon and Kirlenko needs a change of scenary at this point in his career in my mind.

Stuckney/Gordon/Kirlenko/Villeueva/Wilcox
with
Bynum/Brewer/Daye/Maxell/Wallace/Brown coming off the bench is a decent, competitive, 35-40 win team.

Utah, needs to solifidy its SG position and having both Rip and Tayshaun would solidify their roster to really make them a 50-55 win team with a payroll of over $80 million this year. If they lt Boozer go, a long term core of Williams/Rip/Tayshuan/Milsap/Okur is something to build on.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but...
1. LAC will have about 44 million of guaranteed money in 2010, so I don't get where DanTown got his #'s from.

2. RJ brought back nothing but expirings(some partially guaranteed, which is big value in todays climate), VC brought back nothing but expirings(Lee was swapped for Ryan Anderson, one of the most underrated and slept on rookies of the entire 08 class), both these players are on relatively better, or at least equally bad contracts as Rip, both are better players, one is about the identical age and the other is much younger.
Rip ain't bringing back more then expirings, or longer contracts and either a pick or a young prospect. He is not bringing back both, or even all three.

3. The three teams that seem like a great fit for him are NOH, Utah and Cleveland, IMO.
NOH could send Posey, Mo Pete and 2 1st rounders. That seems fair, brings in two nice role players, two picks, albeit late ones and a bunch of 2011 cap flexibility to continue adding big FA talent or make a cap swallowing trade without giving up any of the new core or even Tay.

4. Scoot has hit the thread on the nail.

He Filled it Up wrote:I would be interested to know what franchise you are a fan of. There are a number of teams that are trapped st that not quite contending stage that could stand to lose a serious asset in the next two off-seasons. I can think of a couple of teams that should trade away young talent and a first to cement themsevles as true contenders, and there are at least a few that you do that by adding Rip.

I'm an Atlanta fan. We would not touch Rip's contract with a 50-yard pole, much less trade young talent AND a 1st AND expirings.

There are very few teams that would. Most teams are either in rebuild mode, full-out contend mode, or preparing for a push a couple years down the road. No team that's rebuilding will take Rip. Most teams that are true contenders have better SGs. No team that's going to contend in a few years will take Rip either.

There are really only a few teams that might take Rip: Utah, possibly NO, possibly Cleveland, and MAYBE Washington, but that'd be a really ugly trade.

No team is going to sacrifice it's future to bring in an above-average yet horribly overpaid SG past his prime who still has quite a few years left on his contract unless they think they can win this year AND they have a gap at SG AND they have okay but not superb young talent AND it's pieces that Detroit would take.

Boston: A trade for Rip would open the door to move Ray Allen whos contract has alot of value.

Jazz: If they are spending 84 mil this yr might as well make sure you get out of the 1st rd. I like a Rip for Harp and Brewer trade but no Im not willing to part with Prince unless Koufus is in the deal and a pick. I would realy like a Rip/Maxiell for AK/Koufos. Brewer is a nice player but he wont resign here and so hes just a 1 yr rental.

Hornets: they have a potential frontcourt and adding Rip would ensure a 2nd rd and 2 more home playoff games.

Im not interested in 2010 expireings to be honest. I prefer 2011 but if I could get a potential big or a 2010 1st I would take longer contracts np. Im much more realistic in that I dont expect expireings and a pick but a young former 1st rder = a draft pick IMHO.

Joe Trader has proposed a couple of deals and one I signed off on. However trading both Prince and Rip together is a hard pill to swallow. The Pistons look to address there C position and need a 2010 pick, young big or cap space and so will be looking one or a combination of them with Rip and Prince. I dont see whats so wrong with that.

As I already mentioned, Rip doesn't need to be dealt this year. His game won't slip with age, and he'd likely have more value next year for many reasons:

- He gets a chance to play better and show that last year was a product of circumstance, and not his game declining.
- It's one less year on his deal, making it better overall.
- There will be tons of teams with money to spend and who are looking to "get over the top", like all the contenders did this summer.

It's really not a huge concern right now.

RTM wrote:As I already mentioned, Rip doesn't need to be dealt this year. His game won't slip with age, and he'd likely have more value next year for many reasons:

- He gets a chance to play better and show that last year was a product of circumstance, and not his game declining.
- It's one less year on his deal, making it better overall.
- There will be tons of teams with money to spend and who are looking to "get over the top", like all the contenders did this summer.

It's really not a huge concern right now.

It's not that he can rebuild his value. He didn't lose any on-court value to begin with. He's a tremendous player. He might not be a superstar, but he's more than a solid starter.

It's the bold that's important. Keep in mind that we've seen several deals in the past years of superstars in their prime, or within a year of it for essentially cap space. Richard Jefferson. Vince Carter. Pau Gasol. Unfortunately, many owners are valuing peace of mind contractually.


Yes. I LOVE Rip Hamilton as a player. He is a Reggie clone, except he lives about 4 feet in from Reggie's area. However, Reggie suffered a tremendous downfall in his production after a certain age, and Rip is getting there. Sure, Reggie could still contribute well, but not worth $12 million or so. Keep in mind that Rip is going to be about 20% of the salary cap all by himself for the entire length of his deal. That's a huge deal. And it's for 4 years. Not 1 or 2.

^ My point was assuming he can maintain a similar level of production (and I see no reason why he won't be at least an efficient 16 PPG scorer throughout his deal), his deal is more manageable in the eyes of other teams every year. It hits a flat rate next year (or it may be the year after), so it's not like the deals of players like Peja that hit ridiculous amounts in the later years. He's well paid, but hardly a salary anchor.

After quickly scanning through this thread, one idea that I like is:

TO DET:
C Kosta Koufos
SF/PF Andrei Kirilenko


TO UTAH:
PF Jason Maxiell
SF DaJuan Summers
SG Richard Hamilton

vincecarter4pres wrote:RJ brought back nothing but expirings(some partially guaranteed, which is big value in todays climate), VC brought back nothing but expirings(Lee was swapped for Ryan Anderson, one of the most underrated and slept on rookies of the entire 08 class), both these players are on relatively better, or at least equally bad contracts as Rip, both are better players, one is about the identical age and the other is much younger.
Rip ain't bringing back more then expirings, or longer contracts and either a pick or a young prospect. He is not bringing back both, or even all three.

Piston fans seems to continually ignore this. If they want to feel he's worth more than that and aren't interested in that type of deal, that's fine. But to complain that offers of rotation caliber expirings (and maybe a fringe prospect/late #1) are low-ball offers are just false.

The direction of the Nets and the Pistons are completely different, and the Bucks don't have any direction. Those teams wanted to get expirings, so the VC and RJ trades made sense (I guess). Detroit doesn't want expirings for 2010, if any we would be looking for 2011 expirings and we would take a serious downgrade in talent until we got closer to that offseason. The proposed deals aren't good from a Detroit perspective because they don't accomplish anything for us. Although many of you believe Rip is on a bad contract, that's not the way our FO feels and he is certainly not on a bad contract for this year or likely the next.

He Filled it Up wrote:The direction of the Nets and the Pistons are completely different, and the Bucks don't have any direction. Those teams wanted to get expirings, so the VC and RJ trades made sense (I guess). Detroit doesn't want expirings for 2010, if any we would be looking for 2011 expirings and we would take a serious downgrade in talent until we got closer to that offseason. The proposed deals aren't good from a Detroit perspective because they don't accomplish anything for us. Although many of you believe Rip is on a bad contract, that's not the way our FO feels and he is certainly not on a bad contract for this year or likely the next.

Exactly. The Nets want in on the big 2010 party, and therefore will sell low on their players. Detroit has no intention of doing that. They want fair value. Just because the Nets took less than fair value doesn't mean that everyone will.

Also, nice how you conveniently leave out the fact that you got a top 10 lottery pick out of the Jefferson deal.

HeroicKennedy wrote:Exactly. The Nets want in on the big 2010 party, and therefore will sell low on their players. Detroit has no intention of doing that. They want fair value. Just because the Nets took less than fair value doesn't mean that everyone will.

Also, nice how you conveniently leave out the fact that you got a top 10 lottery pick out of the Jefferson deal.

Sell low?
It was an open market and VC was available to all other 29 teams, and all 29 could have made an offer. NJ took the best offer out of what was available. Expirers are valuable... just ask NY.

VC for pure expirers was rumoured well before that as well such as at last year's trade deadline.

Why does it seem painfully obvious that either Gordon or Hamilton will be complaining about their role with the team within two months? I don't see how Detroit is not forced into moving Rip and receiving something of lower value in return. That being said, depending on how the Delonte West situation works out, Z/West for Hamilton/Wilcox. Detroit gets a legit center on an ending deal as well as a backup 1-2 that can run the second unit. Cleveland gets a starting SG as well as a stop gap, backup center/PF.

Stuckey/Bynum
Gordon/West
Prince/Daye
Maxiell/Villanueva
Z/Brown

Williams/Gibson
Hamilton/Parker
James/Moon
Varejao/Hickson
Oneal/Wilcox

Why do people naturally assume that Rip and Gordon are going to butt heads? Hell, it was Rip's idea to bring Gordon in. He wanted Dumars to add him to the team. Now if Rip is so uncomfortable with his position within the team, why would he OK something like this? And Gordon has no problem coming off the bench behind Rip. He's stated this repeatedly.

Honestly, the only one upset about minutes/bench role was Iverson. Hamilton was upset about being on the bench and the team STILL losing. It had nothing to do with a reduced role or less minutes. He just wanted to win.

HeroicKennedy wrote:Also, nice how you conveniently leave out the fact that you got a top 10 lottery pick out of the Jefferson deal.

I was talking about the RJ to San An trade, but if you want to look at the RJ to Bucks trade, RJ was pretty much a stud in his absolute prime(which he still is) and he still didn't bring back expirings with the lotto pick, he brought back a scrub on one of the worst contracts in the league with the lotto pick. On topof this you conviently leave out the fact Yi was basically demanding a trade himself.

Ive looked through this whole thread and I agree with most that the four teams that make sense(basketball wise) to me are Denver, Cleveland, Utah and NOH.

Of the 4, I would love to see Rip in Utah...its a dream scenario.

A trade I think could work(im not a jazz fan or Pistons fan) is:

Prince and Rip for Boozer, Harpring and CJ Miles (or Kyle Korver)

This solves the Boozer/Millsap and Rip/Gordon "dilemas".
This also solves Utah's lack of wing depth.
This helps Detroit speed up the rebuilding process, it also gives them a really nice trading chip in Boozer.

chanchan85 wrote:Ive looked through this whole thread and I agree with most that the four teams that make sense(basketball wise) to me are Denver, Cleveland, Utah and NOH.

Of the 4, I would love to see Rip in Utah...its a dream scenario.

A trade I think could work(im not a jazz fan or Pistons fan) is:

Prince and Rip for Boozer, Harpring and CJ Miles (or Kyle Korver)

This solves the Boozer/Millsap and Rip/Gordon "dilemas".
This also solves Utah's lack of wing depth.
This helps Detroit speed up the rebuilding process, it also gives them a really nice trading chip in Boozer.

And what happens when Boozer walks for nothing?

HeroicKennedy wrote:

chanchan85 wrote:Ive looked through this whole thread and I agree with most that the four teams that make sense(basketball wise) to me are Denver, Cleveland, Utah and NOH.

Of the 4, I would love to see Rip in Utah...its a dream scenario.

A trade I think could work(im not a jazz fan or Pistons fan) is:

Prince and Rip for Boozer, Harpring and CJ Miles (or Kyle Korver)

This solves the Boozer/Millsap and Rip/Gordon "dilemas".
This also solves Utah's lack of wing depth.
This helps Detroit speed up the rebuilding process, it also gives them a really nice trading chip in Boozer.

And what happens when Boozer walks for nothing?

I think he would resign. He talked this offseason about what team he would likely play for and he responded with Detroit and New Jersey being his two most likely destinations.

^ If Detroit were willing to pay him what he wants, he would have opted out and already signed here.

We're not interested in giving him 15 million each year. So he's not interested in being here.

RTM wrote:^ If Detroit were willing to pay him what he wants, he would have opted out and already signed here.

We're not interested in giving him 15 million each year. So he's not interested in being here.

I think the reason he didn't opt out is he realized no one is going to give him that money anymore, at least after last season, so he figured he would wait a year, hopefully build his value back up and have a ton more suitors.
I bet 5 years for 60 to 65 mill gets him next offseason.