The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 - Off the Cliff we go

[GoBobs]

When your team is like 7 (and by the way 2 of those 7 wins are vs the Nets) and 22 in the last 29 games you have to question why that might be. It could be that your star player is hurt or you have a host of injuries and are fielding a bunch of d league guys. We don't have that situation.

It could also be that the league has figured out what you do and adjusted and your own coach doesn't know how to adjust back.

You know a team has a good coach when you have a situation like the Heat or the Mavs this year. There is really no reason for those teams to be winning at the pace they are. We have had clifford for 4 years and we haven't seen a glimpse of anything like that. Clifford is somewhere between average and below average. It is time to give someone else a shot.

If Clifford is a good coach why did we lose to the Nets, the 76ers without Embiid and most recently get blown out by the Suns? Why don't we ever find a way to beat good teams? Why couldn't he find a way to use Biyombo? Why don't we win in spite of getting the things he wants like Belilini instead of a draft pick and Plumblee for size and rebounding ect?

The people that think we are good, better than our record, or good except for the bench need to wake up. We are 7 wins in the last 29 games with 2 of those wins coming vs the nets. We only have 3 more wins than the 76ers and the Magic on the season.

[GoBobs]

And by the way if it were not for the individual improvement of Kemba Walker these last two seasons we would be one of the worst teams in the league and Clifford would have been fired long ago.

[yosemiteben]

The people that think we are good, better than our record, or good except for the bench need to wake up.

http://stats.nba.com/teams/advanced/#!?sort=NET_RATING&dir=-1

http://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/#!?sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*GE*200&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

[316Hornets]

Is Clifford the reason Marv's fg% dropped? Is Clifford the reason the team can't make shots in the 4th qtr? There's no denying that this team has been competitive in many games this season that they had a chance to win in the 4th quarter. When you have to rely on guys like Hibbert and Hawes, there's only so much a coach can do. He can't teach talent.

[Braggins]

When you have to rely on guys like Hibbert and Hawes, there's only so much a coach can do. He can't teach talent.

We never actually had to rely on Hibbert and Hawes. Cliff used them because he believes playing the right way means always having a true center in the game. He could have played Frank at center and used MKG and Batum to take on some of the PF minutes, but he simply chose to roll with Hibbert and Hawes (sometimes together) because he felt it gave us the best chance to win (it definitely didnt).

[Diop]

Clifford frustrates me with his inflexibility at times, but that could also be him being patient and trying things out fully before changing plans.

For me the biggest issue this year has been Lin, Lee>>Sessions, Marco and Big Al/Hansbrough>>Hawes,Hibbert

It was a huge drop off in talent, I didn't think Sessions would be this bad but he still wasn't an inspired choice.
The priority was to resign our "big names" and the patch work on the other parts was just awful.

As much as I hated big Al at times, he still had a use. He was good at snagging defensive boards with his fried chicken sticky hands and bulky butt, he could also provide a decent scoring option. I would have preferred nutty Hansbrough running around compared to the version of Hibbert we had as well

[Mystical Apples]

And by the way if it were not for the individual improvement of Kemba Walker these last two seasons we would be one of the worst teams in the league and Clifford would have been fired long ago.

Weird how most players outperform their draft positions under Clifford.

[catch20two]

When you have to rely on guys like Hibbert and Hawes, there's only so much a coach can do. He can't teach talent.

We never actually had to rely on Hibbert and Hawes. Cliff used them because he believes playing the right way means always having a true center in the game. He could have played Frank at center and used MKG and Batum to take on some of the PF minutes, but he simply chose to roll with Hibbert and Hawes (sometimes together) because he felt it gave us the best chance to win (it definitely didnt).

He also could've played Christian Wood.

[Mystical Apples]

When you have to rely on guys like Hibbert and Hawes, there's only so much a coach can do. He can't teach talent.

We never actually had to rely on Hibbert and Hawes. Cliff used them because he believes playing the right way means always having a true center in the game. He could have played Frank at center and used MKG and Batum to take on some of the PF minutes, but he simply chose to roll with Hibbert and Hawes (sometimes together) because he felt it gave us the best chance to win (it definitely didnt).

He also could've played Christian Wood.

So could've 30 teams who passed in round 1. And then 30 in round 2. And Philly. Then 29 teams once again.

Yet Clifford....who actually gave him serious pro minutes.

[catch20two]

We never actually had to rely on Hibbert and Hawes. Cliff used them because he believes playing the right way means always having a true center in the game. He could have played Frank at center and used MKG and Batum to take on some of the PF minutes, but he simply chose to roll with Hibbert and Hawes (sometimes together) because he felt it gave us the best chance to win (it definitely didnt).

He also could've played Christian Wood.

So could've 30 teams who passed in round 1. And then 30 in round 2. And Philly. Then 29 teams once again.

Yet Clifford....who actually gave him serious pro minutes.

lol don't go all Yosemite on me.

Clifford had no choice but to play Wood after Cody and Plumlee got hurt and Toby failed to impress. It was either play Wood or play Marv at C.

[yosemiteben]

Seems like his point escaped you catch.

[Braggins]

Question for Mystical Apples.

What is your take on Clifford's reluctance to go small? I know you are a big fan of Clifford, but ive also been under the impression that you think the key to unlocking the full potential of this roster is to move a few players up a position. Why do you think Clifford seems to want to avoid playing anyone up a position unless he absolutely has to and does that affect your opinion of him as a coach in a negative way at all?

[Mystical Apples]

Question for Mystical Apples.

What is your take on Clifford's reluctance to go small? I know you are a big fan of Clifford, but ive also been under the impression that you think the key to unlocking the full potential of this roster is to move a few players up a position. Why do you think Clifford seems to want to avoid playing anyone up a position unless he absolutely has to and does that affect your opinion of him as a coach in a negative way at all?

See size 1-3. And again, I've said this since November without using results as my crutch.

Kemba, Roberts, Sessions, Marco's length, Lamb's strength. Jeez I was shouting this but fans of specific players were offended so I stopped.

[Mystical Apples]

He also could've played Christian Wood.

So could've 30 teams who passed in round 1. And then 30 in round 2. And Philly. Then 29 teams once again.

Yet Clifford....who actually gave him serious pro minutes.

lol don't go all Yosemite on me.

Clifford had no choice but to play Wood after Cody and Plumlee got hurt and Toby failed to impress. It was either play Wood or play Marv at C.

Yeah I wouldn't have played Wood either. Hope he makes it but not exactly holding my breathe.

Marvin is another story. I have faith in him aging into a PT C. Need that wing though (for the millionth time).

[Braggins]

Question for Mystical Apples.

What is your take on Clifford's reluctance to go small? I know you are a big fan of Clifford, but ive also been under the impression that you think the key to unlocking the full potential of this roster is to move a few players up a position. Why do you think Clifford seems to want to avoid playing anyone up a position unless he absolutely has to and does that affect your opinion of him as a coach in a negative way at all?

See size 1-3. And again, I've said this since November without using results as my crutch.

Kemba, Roberts, Sessions, Marco's length, Lamb's strength. Jeez I was shouting this but fans of specific players were offended so I stopped.

I think this is an adequate explanation for why we don't go small often or why it isn't a primary strategy, but I don't think its enough to explain just how averse Clifford is to going small and situations like the Hawes/Hibbert fiasco. I definitely think there are some small ball lineup combinations that we could use that would have enough length/rebounding and would be viable. Also, the lack of length of some of the players you mentioned should theoretically not be a massive issue when the other team is going small (some teams will go really, really small).

[LamarMatic7]

Question for Mystical Apples.

What is your take on Clifford's reluctance to go small? I know you are a big fan of Clifford, but ive also been under the impression that you think the key to unlocking the full potential of this roster is to move a few players up a position. Why do you think Clifford seems to want to avoid playing anyone up a position unless he absolutely has to and does that affect your opinion of him as a coach in a negative way at all?

I think it's pretty straight-forward. The team has lead the league in DREB% for three straight seasons. It's now going for an unprecedented fourth year.

That's a staple of Clifford's beliefs of how to have a successful team on defense (and it definitely has worked). By going small you risk losing your glass.

[Mystical Apples]

Clifford has cited GSW and last season's Miami Heat as examples. Even their "small lineups" had cumulative length and size advantages against most opponents. Miami often rolled with Whiteside and no PG.

[GoBobs]

Clifford's best ideas have resulted in 22 loses in our last 30 games

[Snidely FC]

We saw last night vs MIA what sets apart great coaches like Popovich and Spoelstra. They use anyone and everyone, give them minutes early and all season long, so the coach can learn when and how they can be deployed, find ways to utilize their sometimes narrow skillsets (see: Babbitt) the players not only develop and potentially grow into bigger roles (see: James Johnson), but they also gain confidence, feel more integral to the team and occasionally have an x factor game ( see: Bertans vs CHA). Graham and Weber both could have helped last night, even just in spot defensive roles. Its part of the reason injuries derail our team so much. Many posters on this board saying Cliff too rigid in his rotations, I not only agree, I think its what keeps him from becoming a better coach, and CHA from becoming a better team.

[yosemiteben]

Let's not act like Spoelstra is playing those guys by choice.