Game 31: Charlotte Hornets (14-16) @ Phoenix Suns (20-10) l Wednesday l 7:00pm l FSNAZ

[Jdiddy701]

The only concern I have going forward is Deandre Ayton. His defense has not be very good as of late. He always looks timid and plays with no aggression. It’s almost half way in the season, there’s no reason for him to always be fatigued. There were a couple of plays today where he should have completed 3 point plays against smaller players committing very weak fouls. He has a very long way to go.

He should be THRIVING playing alongside CP3, Booker and all the shooters we have, but he’s not. Hopefully he’s not exposed in the playoffs. A smart coach would do it.


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[Gorilla Warfare]

Unless it's an uncontested lob I don't assume Ayton makes any shots, and that is concerning.

[Jdiddy701]

Unless it's an uncontested lob I don't assume Ayton makes any shots, and that is concerning.

Yeah, very very few plays this season where he has scored on his own this season. He was so much better at it his first two seasons. His post moves have vanished, only scores on easy buckets.


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[TouchPassDario]

Today was pretty simple:

We missed a few free throws we usually make.
They made a few they usually miss.
Dario, Payne were ok and bad, respectively.
Monty had a bad game. Mikal shoulda been clamping Melo all game. Booker shoulda guarded Biyombo when he was in lmao

[spanishninja]

we should really stop talking about this game and prepare for what to do against the Bulls. Zach Lavine ain't **** around this season and Coby White has gotten really good really quickly.

[TouchPassDario]

Booker back to his 5tov 3ast games.

Volume scoring ain’t everything ya’ll.

[Frank Lee]

Yup Diddy.... the dude goes Copperfield for stretches. Bismack was in his fragile head and he got out hustled by Zeller.

But this game is on everyone tonight

Sloppy play, low intensity, FTs missed, poor execution/shooting in timely moments.

[Jdiddy701]

Yup Diddy.... the dude goes Copperfield for stretches. Bismack was in his fragile head and he got out hustled by Zeller.

But this game is on everyone tonight

Sloppy play, low intensity, FTs missed, poor execution/shooting in timely moments.

I agree! This game is not on Ayton by no means but you would think he has the clear advantage over Zeller and Biyombo. He’s just not ready and it sucks because the rest of the team is. I still would not be surprised if James Jones trades him if a trade is available. Nikola Vucevic is someone I would strongly look at. Suns have to go all in now IMO when factoring CP3’s age.


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[bwgood77]

Another shocking last second attempt.

Not on Booker this time even though he took the shot. What did Monty draw up there?

Man, watch the game, and understand the game. The hornets just stood around the 3pt line. Its a tough situation to draw something up for.

They were well coached in defending that.

Hey
Book got the good look
What more can you want.

It just didn’t work out well


Is this the first game where Ayton got played off the court?

Well, not really. He should have been sat after Harden roasted him after switches, so Monty didn't make the same mistake twice (for once).

[Frank Lee]

We deal Crowder or Saric, FAs will think twice about finding a happy home here. Rubes got the rug yanked... can’t keep doing that and preach ‘culture’

[darealjuice]

DA's future will definitely be interesting. Very frustrating player offensively. The lack of skill development from him has stuck out like a thumb compared to Mikal and Cam. There's no excuse for him to have more games scoring in single digits than 20+ points this year. Even his defense is a bit overrated to me. He defends the perimeter well for a center, but his help-side rim protection is very inconsistent and NBA Stats has his DEFRTG as the 2nd worst rotation player behind Booker. Worst NETRTG outside of guys like Moore and Galloway too.

[bwgood77]

DA's future will definitely be interesting. Very frustrating player offensively. The lack of skill development from him has stuck out like a thumb compared to Mikal and Cam. There's no excuse for him to have more games scoring in single digits than 20+ points this year. Even his defense is a bit overrated to me. He defends the perimeter well for a center, but his help-side rim protection is very inconsistent and NBA Stats has his DEFRTG as the 2nd worst rotation player behind Booker. Worst NETRTG outside of guys like Moore and Galloway too.

His defense seems to have regressed, though I've mentioned before that I think those ratings are largely dependent on lineups, and for a long while our starting unit was not good, and DA rarely played with others like most everyone else did...and our bench was getting us back into games after us getting outscored early. That has changed quite a bit though. Last I checked, I think Booker had the 2nd worst net rtg which doesn't pass the eye test. Though given he has gotten hotter that has probably changed except maybe the DRTG part.

And then Mikal and Cam progressing faster isn't surprising to me either given they played 4 years in college in very good programs, and AZ hasn't been a great program the last 4 years or so...not sure what happened to Sean Miller..he used to seem a lot better too.

But he is frustrating based on what you want him to be despite playing better overall than other bigs in his class and I think those coming in after (those his age or younger).

[Jdiddy701]

Suns (DA) locked up Vuc like two weeks ago.

CP3 + Booker + Vuc is really tough to beat. James Jones would do it in a heartbeat, would probably require giving up Crowder or Dario.

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Vucevic makes too much unless we included Crowder or something. I wouldn't be surprised if we trade him but I also won't be surprised if he gets better.

It seems like often times they don't go to him when they should, but I can kind of understand why since he has had trouble holding onto the ball which was pretty uncharacteristic the last few years, and he does need more aggression taking it to the hoop.

He did get to the line for 8 shots, which was good, though it wasn't on hard drives, and it was when he brought the ball down when he shouldn't but probably would have gone back up, so they just fouled him...many other teams either don't or swipe at the ball a lot.

I think he will improve throughout the season on things, but time will tell. I think it would be hard to trade him for another big and make money work and get someone as good. It would probably have to be someone else on a rookie deal like Wendell Carter Jr or something. I don't think they trade for Collins due to impending contract.

But they really have their two main go to guys in CP3 and Book. With Rubio, he utilized Ayton better and had better chemistry, which got him going more on multiple fronts, averaging 18 and 12. I think his defense was slightly better last year too (though that might have been because I was so surprised he suddenly was helping on defense, something I had never seen him do). They can't switch him onto quick guards that drive though. It won't work unless we have another back line defender or shot blocker, something Jalen Smith might be able to do in time. It could be like Kleber behind KP or Powell or something like that.

I also would not be surprised if he got better. I am not sure the Suns will have the patience with him, which is not fair for DA. The problem is that the Suns have a roster that is ready to win now and on a timeline. Other than Vuc, I don’t see other bigs that would improve our team that’s attainable.


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[darealjuice]

His defense seems to have regressed, though I've mentioned before that I think those ratings are largely dependent on lineups, and for a long while our starting unit was not good, and DA rarely played with others like most everyone else did...and our bench was getting us back into games after us getting outscored early. That has changed quite a bit though. Last I checked, I think Booker had the 2nd worst net rtg which doesn't pass the eye test. Though given he has gotten hotter that has probably changed except maybe the DRTG part.

And then Mikal and Cam progressing faster isn't surprising to me either given they played 4 years in college in very good programs, and AZ hasn't been a great program the last 4 years or so...not sure what happened to Sean Miller..he used to seem a lot better too.

But he is frustrating based on what you want him to be despite playing better overall than other bigs in his class and I think those coming in after (those his age or younger).

Booker is actually our 4th best NETRTG on NBA Stats behind the Dario and the Cams at this point. I know line-ups have to do with it, but the eye test lines up for me.

It's surprising to me because he's the #1 pick, and you'd like to expect more improvement from a freshman #1 pick than upperclassmen late lottery picks. Especially when his biggest offensive flaws are so basic, yet we've barely seen improvement in them.

[bwgood77]

His defense seems to have regressed, though I've mentioned before that I think those ratings are largely dependent on lineups, and for a long while our starting unit was not good, and DA rarely played with others like most everyone else did...and our bench was getting us back into games after us getting outscored early. That has changed quite a bit though. Last I checked, I think Booker had the 2nd worst net rtg which doesn't pass the eye test. Though given he has gotten hotter that has probably changed except maybe the DRTG part.

And then Mikal and Cam progressing faster isn't surprising to me either given they played 4 years in college in very good programs, and AZ hasn't been a great program the last 4 years or so...not sure what happened to Sean Miller..he used to seem a lot better too.

But he is frustrating based on what you want him to be despite playing better overall than other bigs in his class and I think those coming in after (those his age or younger).

Booker is actually our 4th best NETRTG on NBA Stats behind the Dario and the Cams at this point. I know line-ups have to do with it, but the eye test lines up for me.

It's surprising to me because he's the #1 pick, and you'd like to expect more improvement from a freshman #1 pick than upperclassmen late lottery picks. Especially when his biggest offensive flaws are so basic, yet we've barely seen improvement in them.

Actually I meant DRTG for Booker, not Net RTG. I know he has a good enough ORtg to make his Net Rtg good.

Yeah, I expect more from Ayton though I knew he had big plays. And although he isn't as good on defense as many think, he's still better than I expected coming out. His offense is not as good, but I never felt he was a super aggressive player on that side, though he seems to have regressed.

I still think (maybe it's moreso hope) that the long layoffs last year (two stints of 4 1/2 months in isolation) with that couple of week bubble play where he wasn't quite as good, probably hurt his conditioning without a training camp or ability to work out in a basketball sense with trainers and stuff for so long.

That could be wishful thinking though...but he won't have that long of layoff again, so I expect the conditioning and attention to detail/skills since he should work more with trainers and in team setting in future off seasons should be much better.

[darealjuice]

Actually I meant DRTG for Booker, not Net RTG. I know he has a good enough ORtg to make his Net Rtg good.

Yeah, I expect more from Ayton though I knew he had big plays. And although he isn't as good on defense as many think, he's still better than I expected coming out. His offense is not as good, but I never felt he was a super aggressive player on that side, though he seems to have regressed.

I still think (maybe it's moreso hope) that the long layoffs last year (two stints of 4 1/2 months in isolation) with that couple of week bubble play where he wasn't quite as good, probably hurt his conditioning without a training camp or ability to work out in a basketball sense with trainers and stuff for so long.

That could be wishful thinking though...but he won't have that long of layoff again, so I expect the conditioning and attention to detail/skills since he should work more with trainers and in team setting in future off seasons should be much better.

I hope that’s the case, but everyone’s been in the same boat for the last year. Hell, being in Arizona probably made it easier for him to find a place to workout during the pandemic than most.

I’m pretty indifferent to him at this point. Unless at least 2 of his skill set, motor, and physicality make surprise significant improvements, I’m confident he’ll be a fringe All Star at best. He doesn’t bring enough to the table to separate him from guys like Jarrett Allen and Clint Capela unless you’re into jab step fade aways. Tons of raw potential and there’s still time to develop it, but dreams of someone like Embiid and AD are long gone lol.

[Frank Lee]

Just hitch the wagon up to CP and Book... and hope lil ponies Mikal and CamJo can pull some load. When they run well, good things happen. That’s what we got. The big Gelding can trot along. Hes a 5 yr plan apparently.... At this point, it’s up to Monty to get him going for the home stretch.

And it sure wouldn’t hurt to have a little more athleticism and length on our front line. Bismack was having his way tonight.

[bwgood77]

Actually I meant DRTG for Booker, not Net RTG. I know he has a good enough ORtg to make his Net Rtg good.

Yeah, I expect more from Ayton though I knew he had big plays. And although he isn't as good on defense as many think, he's still better than I expected coming out. His offense is not as good, but I never felt he was a super aggressive player on that side, though he seems to have regressed.

I still think (maybe it's moreso hope) that the long layoffs last year (two stints of 4 1/2 months in isolation) with that couple of week bubble play where he wasn't quite as good, probably hurt his conditioning without a training camp or ability to work out in a basketball sense with trainers and stuff for so long.

That could be wishful thinking though...but he won't have that long of layoff again, so I expect the conditioning and attention to detail/skills since he should work more with trainers and in team setting in future off seasons should be much better.

I hope that’s the case, but everyone’s been in the same boat for the last year. Hell, being in Arizona probably made it easier for him to find a place to workout during the pandemic than most.

I’m pretty indifferent to him at this point. Unless his at least 2 of his skill set, motor, and physicality make surprise significant improvements, I’m confident he’ll be a fringe All Star at best. He doesn’t bring enough to the table to separate him from guys like Jarrett Allen and Clint Capela unless you’re into jab step fade aways. Tons of raw potential and there’s still time to develop it, but dreams of someone like Embiid and AD are long gone lol.

I agree he isn't much different than those guys except perimeter defense. I would think about trading him for Allen but I think the Cavs really like him. If he doesn't significantly improve, I think he will only make something like Capela makes...maybe a tad more around $20. I will be happy if he is a fringe all star. Booker has been impressive as a fringe all star the last two years...actually even the year before that. There are a lot of really good fringe all stars.

[Saberestar]

Monk was HOT and the Hornets showed us that they are a playoff team in the East.

They nailed it with that #3 pick in the past draft getting L. Ball. He is gonna be GREAT. He is already an impactful player and he only is gonna get better with more strength and experience.

I am starting to think that we fans were giving too much credit to Ayton as a perimeter defender. He is decent there for his size, but not much more than that.

We saw in this game that Zeller (for example) is better than him on that area. And many more around the league.

At least this time Monty realized that and he sat Ayton to play small ball with Crowder at 5. It was a good decision but we could not win the game.

[King4Day]

Looking at the replay, Book shouldn't have been T'd up. Refs need to understand people say things. Bball is a talking game

What did he say?

Couldn't tell but he wasn't going after their bench. It was chirping from both sides.
As EJ later said, just warn the players and move on.