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Knicks Free Agent Frenzy

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Re: Knicks Free Agent Frenzy 

Post#401 » by DaGawd » Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:10 am

aq_ua wrote:
WargamesX wrote:
Hes_On_Fire wrote:Listening to Stein and Fischer tonight, there are no other moves this team is making.

It’s just Brunson and re-signing Robinson. Fischer dropped the Knicks might discuss an extension with RJ sooner than later.

They mentioned maybe the Knicks down the line in the season or next year can get Donovan Mitchell or even a Bradley Beal. Although a great point about having Mitchell with Brunson - 2 undersized guards who can’t play defense. Would not be a winning recipe. Also a good point about how neither Mitchell nor Beal would propel the team into contention. So what’s the endgame?

Overall this is shaping up to be a lot of what we thought it would be - a lot of running on the treadmill. More selling on the hope of a future star that may never come to fruition rather than building the right way.

Idk I don’t think these media experts know the Knicks plans directly and usually have to infer from what other FO tell them based on interactions. A trade might happen, but it would depend on who is legit on the market this offseason. This FO doesn’t seem like they are stuck on a single plan besides improve.

It would also be unreasonable to expect all of our roster issues get cleared up and resolved in one offseason. Too many roster holes to patch and young talent that needs time to develop. There will have to be future roster moves, but I would fully understand if those moves don’t happen this off-season.

The real issue is do you really trust this FO to make the actual right moves going forward
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Re: Knicks Free Agent Frenzy 

Post#402 » by G_K_F » Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:16 am

DaGawd wrote:
aq_ua wrote:
WargamesX wrote:Idk I don’t think these media experts know the Knicks plans directly and usually have to infer from what other FO tell them based on interactions. A trade might happen, but it would depend on who is legit on the market this offseason. This FO doesn’t seem like they are stuck on a single plan besides improve.

It would also be unreasonable to expect all of our roster issues get cleared up and resolved in one offseason. Too many roster holes to patch and young talent that needs time to develop. There will have to be future roster moves, but I would fully understand if those moves don’t happen this off-season.

The real issue is do you really trust this FO to make the actual right moves going forward


No - and why would you trust a front office that thinks keeping essentially the same roster but adding Brunson is a major upgrade? Or why would you trust a front office that thinks Randle can coexist with Brunson and that Randle won’t actually make Brunson worse?
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Re: Knicks Free Agent Frenzy 

Post#403 » by spree2kawhi » Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:25 am

Hes_On_Fire wrote:
DaGawd wrote:
aq_ua wrote:It would also be unreasonable to expect all of our roster issues get cleared up and resolved in one offseason. Too many roster holes to patch and young talent that needs time to develop. There will have to be future roster moves, but I would fully understand if those moves don’t happen this off-season.

The real issue is do you really trust this FO to make the actual right moves going forward


No - and why would you trust a front office that thinks keeping essentially the same roster but adding Brunson is a major upgrade? Or why would you trust a front office that thinks Randle can coexist with Brunson and that Randle won’t actually make Brunson worse?

This is it in a nutshell.
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Re: Knicks Free Agent Frenzy 

Post#404 » by DaGawd » Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:29 am

spree2kawhi wrote:
Hes_On_Fire wrote:
DaGawd wrote:The real issue is do you really trust this FO to make the actual right moves going forward


No - and why would you trust a front office that thinks keeping essentially the same roster but adding Brunson is a major upgrade? Or why would you trust a front office that thinks Randle can coexist with Brunson and that Randle won’t actually make Brunson worse?

This is it in a nutshell.

To add to that.. a FO who was so eager to draft Obi at 8 and has done nothing to put him in his best possible position to succeed by holding on to Randle and playing him spot minutes behind him, a FO who traded for Cam Reddish without the headcoaches approval and he can’t even get off the bench most games, a FO who frantically had to try and undo damage signings they made a off season ago by trading away assets attached to them (I get most of the assets were no huge loss but still a waste of assets at the end of the day)
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Re: Knicks Free Agent Frenzy 

Post#405 » by HopelessKnick » Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:11 am

DaGawd wrote:
spree2kawhi wrote:
Hes_On_Fire wrote:
No - and why would you trust a front office that thinks keeping essentially the same roster but adding Brunson is a major upgrade? Or why would you trust a front office that thinks Randle can coexist with Brunson and that Randle won’t actually make Brunson worse?

This is it in a nutshell.

To add to that.. a FO who was so eager to draft Obi at 8 and has done nothing to put him in his best possible position to succeed by holding on to Randle and playing him spot minutes behind him, a FO who traded for Cam Reddish without the headcoaches approval and he can’t even get off the bench most games, a FO who frantically had to try and undo damage signings they made a off season ago by trading away assets attached to them (I get most of the assets were no huge loss but still a waste of assets at the end of the day)


The FO has been a complete and utter disaster. The ineptitude of prior FO's seems to conceal it for some, but they have been absolutely disastrous. They diverted from the right path on merits of a fluke playoff appearance and seem to be completely incapable of resetting---despite having a lot of picks and a deep draft coming up.

The silver lining is that by season's end the FO will be fired---that's the only positive take away.
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Re: Knicks Free Agent Frenzy 

Post#406 » by DaGawd » Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:14 am

HopelessKnick wrote:
DaGawd wrote:
spree2kawhi wrote:This is it in a nutshell.

To add to that.. a FO who was so eager to draft Obi at 8 and has done nothing to put him in his best possible position to succeed by holding on to Randle and playing him spot minutes behind him, a FO who traded for Cam Reddish without the headcoaches approval and he can’t even get off the bench most games, a FO who frantically had to try and undo damage signings they made a off season ago by trading away assets attached to them (I get most of the assets were no huge loss but still a waste of assets at the end of the day)


The FO has been a complete and utter disaster. The ineptitude of prior FO's seems to conceal it for some, but they have been absolutely disastrous. They diverted from the right path on merits of a fluke playoff appearance and seem to be completely incapable of resetting---despite having a lot of picks and a deep draft coming up.

The silver lining is that by season's end the FO will be fired---that's the only positive take away.

Unfortunately.. Dolan is still in charge of who gets to take over after this regime…
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Re: Knicks Free Agent Frenzy 

Post#407 » by Reign23 » Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:10 am

uhh I don't want Brunson to meet with Riley.
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Re: Knicks Free Agent Frenzy 

Post#408 » by bearadonisdna » Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:12 am

If Knicks done it’s almost gonna be a tank year.
Julius would be the tank commander so you gotta lay off him.
He tank commander by contract , you can’t do that to minimum salary guy and ruin his psyche .
Him and Mitch would be the tank commanders.
Once their contracts are up we can start thinking about competitiveness again .
RJB likely gone once the tank complete barring legit Allstar play and even so would be a toss up .
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Re: Knicks Free Agent Frenzy 

Post#409 » by bearadonisdna » Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:24 am

Man we went into FA looking like the almighty Knicks.
This latest report got us sounding like numero treadmill.
If Brunson catches wind we might end up being los lol Knicks.
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Re: Knicks Free Agent Frenzy 

Post#410 » by Reign23 » Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:26 am

DowNY wrote:So…..Brunson will take Kemba’s position & minutes plus Burks minutes, while Sims slide into the Noel slot.
Cam slides into Burks’ slot behind RJ.
IQ & Rose behind Brunson.
Grimes might start for defensive purposes.
Evan as the 6th man or just the backup 2.

Missing anything?

We should probably find a way to get Rose or Evan outta here, for IQ’s development.

wishful thinking. they will probably add another vet or two
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Re: Knicks Free Agent Frenzy 

Post#411 » by DaGawd » Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:27 am

bearadonisdna wrote:If Knicks done it’s almost gonna be a tank year.
Julius would be the tank commander so you gotta lay off him.
He tank commander by contract , you can’t do that to minimum salary guy and ruin his psyche .
Him and Mitch would be the tank commanders.
Once their contracts are up we can start thinking about competitiveness again .
RJB likely gone once the tank complete barring legit Allstar play and even so would be a toss up .

If Brunson is the only name we’re adding I really hope we’re a bottom 10 team next season. Bottom 5 might be too much to ask for
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Re: Knicks Free Agent Frenzy 

Post#412 » by HopelessKnick » Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:48 am

DaGawd wrote:
bearadonisdna wrote:If Knicks done it’s almost gonna be a tank year.
Julius would be the tank commander so you gotta lay off him.
He tank commander by contract , you can’t do that to minimum salary guy and ruin his psyche .
Him and Mitch would be the tank commanders.
Once their contracts are up we can start thinking about competitiveness again .
RJB likely gone once the tank complete barring legit Allstar play and even so would be a toss up .

If Brunson is the only name we’re adding I really hope we’re a bottom 10 team next season. Bottom 5 might be too much to ask for


Story of the last 20 years of incompetency, ineptitude und utter idiocy. You would think that with the knicks track record of only making the playoffs like 2-3 times in 20 years they'd have had at least 6-7 top 5 picks but , correct me if I'm wrong---they had two top 5 pick (a 3rd and 4th pick) and no 1st or 2nd. It is actually incredible to be so incompetent to be able to suck for 20 years and almost never get the system-built-in reward for sucking.

Unfortunately New Yorkers seem to be very inert, tame and sheepish so that Dolan and the franchise gets away with the biggest grade of incompetency I have ever witnessed in professional sports.
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Re: Knicks Free Agent Frenzy 

Post#413 » by -YogiBiz- » Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:41 am

KOA wrote:Any chance the Knicks go after Sexton? Not the most ideal backcourt but worked nicely in Cleveland.


Sexton didn’t play this year.
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Re: Knicks Free Agent Frenzy 

Post#414 » by -YogiBiz- » Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:43 am

BBALLER4FR wrote:Image


I actually have this tattooed on my leg lol
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Re: Knicks Free Agent Frenzy 

Post#415 » by KnixinSix » Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:56 am

Hes_On_Fire wrote:
DaGawd wrote:
aq_ua wrote:It would also be unreasonable to expect all of our roster issues get cleared up and resolved in one offseason. Too many roster holes to patch and young talent that needs time to develop. There will have to be future roster moves, but I would fully understand if those moves don’t happen this off-season.

The real issue is do you really trust this FO to make the actual right moves going forward


No - and why would you trust a front office that thinks keeping essentially the same roster but adding Brunson is a major upgrade? Or why would you trust a front office that thinks Randle can coexist with Brunson and that Randle won’t actually make Brunson worse?


For better or worse the team seems to be really committed to Randle and Rose. If things go south this year that can obviously change but they probably saw the 20-21 year as something we can build on. The biggest thing missing in 20-21 was true all around point guard play. Last year Kemba and Fournier were dumpster fires defensively. And that killed Thibs D first aproach. Thibs is not a creative offense guy like other coaches. So either you get him players that can kind of create simply by their own ability (like Brunson) or score efficiently without super creative offensive sets (like Ayton) and can play defense . If you don't do that you are not marrying the system up with the right fitting players. The other big 20-21 bugaboo was lack of shooting and spacing which led to collapsing hard on Randle. To me I would love this pipe dream route as we have been waiting forever for a truly dynamic team and we have the assets to pull it off potentially:

CBS Sports' Sam Quinn says a max contract from the Suns would be worth a projected $176.9 million over five years for Ayton. If he signed a max contract elsewhere, it would reach an estimated $131.15 million over four seasons.

5 seasons 177...is the max in a S&T:

In this proposal The first 2 years are 'pretty low' at 29 and 32....Sign and Trade of Robinson in the scenario and Cam and Taj going to other way too.

29
32
35.5
38.5
42

Ok..option 2 is pie in the sky scenario (but would be amazing and it could be doable if Rose was a master GM like some of the other guys out there)...

If you want to get really crazy and you successfully shed major salaries like Fournier and Cam (or Rose) going in a S&T with Dallas. And Mitch and Taj in S&T with Phoenix. You open up space for Donovan Mitchell (whom we have been heavily linked to) . Between the 3 deals it would require a total emptying of our accumulated FRPs assets but you could end up with:

Ayton Sims Obi
Randle Obi
RJ Grimes
Mitchell Rose Quickley
Brunson Mitchell Quickley McBride

Also maybe 1 or 2 of Obi, McBride,Quickley,Grimes also probably go in those deals.

You would hope Ayton gives better spacing for Randle. Brunson, D. Mitchell though small would be a tremendous shooting backcourt. RJ higher efficiency in year 4 with a better point. And Ayton super efficient 60% FG shooter with a bit of a mid range game.

Weaknesses? Really depends on growth and adjustments of some players.

Short backcourt could be mitigated a bit by rotations. Mitchell came out as a D prospect and has the abiltiy to play better perimeter defense . Brunson is a willing defender. Would that backcourt by perfect defensively? No. But they would be better than Fournier and Kemba by a ton. Ayton is super efficient and has a mid range game which would allow for better spacing in the paint. He can play stretch 5 a bit and so can Obi depending on match ups.

Is this a perfect team? absolutely not but it could be a very, very good one with a lot of dynamic players and better fitting ones than last year.
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Re: Knicks Free Agent Frenzy 

Post#416 » by thebuzzardman » Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:59 am

KnixinSix wrote:
Hes_On_Fire wrote:
DaGawd wrote:The real issue is do you really trust this FO to make the actual right moves going forward


No - and why would you trust a front office that thinks keeping essentially the same roster but adding Brunson is a major upgrade? Or why would you trust a front office that thinks Randle can coexist with Brunson and that Randle won’t actually make Brunson worse?


For better or worse the team seems to be really committed to Randle and Rose. If things go south this year that can obviously change but they probably saw the 20-21 year as something we can build on. The biggest thing missing in 20-21 was true all around point guard play. Last year Kemba and Fournier were dumpster fires defensively. And that killed Thibs D first aproach. Thibs is not a creative offense guy like other coaches. So either you get him players that can kind of create simply by their own ability (like Brunson) or score efficiently without super creative offensive sets (like Ayton) and can play defense . If you don't do that you are not marrying the system up with the right fitting players. The other big 20-21 bugaboo was lack of shooting and spacing which led to collapsing hard on Randle. To me I would love this pipe dream route as we have been waiting forever for a truly dynamic team and we have the assets to pull it off potentially:

CBS Sports' Sam Quinn says a max contract from the Suns would be worth a projected $176.9 million over five years for Ayton. If he signed a max contract elsewhere, it would reach an estimated $131.15 million over four seasons.

5 seasons 177...is the max in a S&T:

In this proposal The first 2 years are 'pretty low' at 29 and 32....Sign and Trade of Robinson in the scenario and Cam and Taj going to other way too.

29
32
35.5
38.5
42

Ok..option 2 is pie in the sky scenario (but would be amazing and it could be doable if Rose was a master GM like some of the other guys out there)...

If you want to get really crazy and you successfully shed major salaries like Fournier and Cam (or Rose) going in a S&T with Dallas. And Mitch and Taj in S&T with Phoenix. You open up space for Donovan Mitchell (whom we have been heavily linked to) . Between the 3 deals it would require a total emptying of our accumulated FRPs assets but you could end up with:

Ayton Sims Obi
Randle Obi
RJ Grimes
Mitchell Rose Quickley
Brunson Mitchell Quickley McBride

Also maybe 1 or 2 of Obi, McBride,Quickley,Grimes also probably go in those deals.

You would hope Ayton gives better spacing for Randle. Brunson, D. Mitchell though small would be a tremendous shooting backcourt. RJ higher efficiency in year 4 with a better point. And Ayton super efficient 60% FG shooter with a bit of a mid range game.

Weaknesses? Really depends on growth and adjustments of some players.

Short backcourt could be mitigated a bit by rotations. Mitchell came out as a D prospect and has the abiltiy to play better perimeter defense . Brunson is a willing defender. Would that backcourt by perfect defensively? No. But they would be better than Fournier and Kemba by a ton. Ayton is super efficient and has a mid range game which would allow for better spacing in the paint. He can play stretch 5 a bit and so can Obi depending on match ups.

Is this a perfect team? absolutely not but it could be a very, very good one with a lot of dynamic players and better fitting ones than last year.


I'd send them Mitch, Rose and Taj.

Time to send Thibs' pets packing.
Get younger
Sink or swim with IQ and McBride as backup PGs
retain Cam for actual SF height.

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Re: Knicks Free Agent Frenzy 

Post#417 » by HopelessKnick » Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:01 am

-YogiBiz- wrote:
KOA wrote:Any chance the Knicks go after Sexton? Not the most ideal backcourt but worked nicely in Cleveland.


Sexton didn’t play this year.


A Sexton/Brunson backcourt would get annihiliated on defense on a nightly basis. Don't underestimate balance and fit---next to talent it is the most important variable. Brunson should ideally playing next to a good defender at the 2, preferably a taller, disruptive one.
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Re: Knicks Free Agent Frenzy 

Post#418 » by -YogiBiz- » Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:06 am

HopelessKnick wrote:
-YogiBiz- wrote:
KOA wrote:Any chance the Knicks go after Sexton? Not the most ideal backcourt but worked nicely in Cleveland.


Sexton didn’t play this year.


A Sexton/Brunson backcourt would get annihiliated on defense on a nightly basis. Don't underestimate balance and fit---next to talent it is the most important variable. Brunson should ideally playing next to a good defender at the 2, preferably a taller, disruptive one.


I agree. But he said it worked nicely in Cleveland and I was just saying no Sexton didn’t play.
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Re: Knicks Free Agent Frenzy 

Post#419 » by KnixinSix » Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:07 am

HopelessKnick wrote:
-YogiBiz- wrote:
KOA wrote:Any chance the Knicks go after Sexton? Not the most ideal backcourt but worked nicely in Cleveland.


Sexton didn’t play this year.


A Sexton/Brunson backcourt would get annihiliated on defense on a nightly basis. Don't underestimate balance and fit---next to talent it is the most important variable. Brunson should ideally playing next to a good defender at the 2, preferably a taller, disruptive one.


That guy was Murray and we didn't want to pay the price. Its probably going to need to be Grimes and maybe D.Mitch if we pull it off (6'10 wingspan). Grimes can play that role at least to a point. Also lets not forget RJ can play at the 2 as well.

Small forward is kind of our thin spot.
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Re: Knicks Free Agent Frenzy 

Post#420 » by Kampuchea » Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:11 am

KnixinSix wrote:
HopelessKnick wrote:
-YogiBiz- wrote:
Sexton didn’t play this year.


A Sexton/Brunson backcourt would get annihiliated on defense on a nightly basis. Don't underestimate balance and fit---next to talent it is the most important variable. Brunson should ideally playing next to a good defender at the 2, preferably a taller, disruptive one.


That guy was Murray and we didn't want to pay the price. Its probably going to need to be Grimes and maybe D.Mitch if we pull it off (6'10 wingspan). Grimes can play that role at least to a point. Also lets not forget RJ can play at the 2 as well.

Small forward is kind of our thin spot.


And I am thankful we didn't make the trade for Murray. A non-playoff team trading unprotected future 1sts has high disaster potential. We finally win the lotto and Spurs take our pick.
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