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WaltFrazier wrote:

gbball wrote:

HiJiNX wrote:Though I agree that a lack of shooting talent is a problem, I think there’s an argument to be made that the way we play—ball stopping rather than free flowing—has a negative impact on shooting. One can say we are missing a lot of open looks but not ever open look is the same. An open look off one pass isn’t the same quality look as an open look generated from three passes after the ball has touched the paint. When we have played well this season and last, those were the kinds of looks we were getting. When we have played badly it’s because we are performing useless DHOs leading to pull ups off screens, off the dribble or a ball reversal. Ideally you want the defence to collapse to get an open midrange, an open layup, a drive then dump off/lob or a drive and kick to the corner or ball reversal for a wide open above the break three. We don’t generate any of those types of looks with any consistency and that’s a huge reason, in my opinion, why none of the shooters that have played in the Nick Nurse offence, regardless of who those shooters are and how well they’ve shot the ball in their careers, look particularly good on this team.

In short, our offence generates open looks but it doesn’t generate open looks in rhythm against a scrambling defence. And a lot of that has to do with the ball stopping habits of FVV, Siakam, OG and Trent. That’s probably why our offence flowed pretty well with Thad and Juancho starting. They understand how to facilitate and play off the ball.

Agreed...there's so little rhythm to our offense. There is no groove out there and no one to orchestrate it. We've seen glimpses with lineups that are willing to trust the pass and string together a series of simple plays to find/maintain/exploit advantage on a consistent basis.

We see this so little thought, that its to the point where it seems like it's not a point of emphasis.

To stick with the music analogies, our offense seems discordant, offkey and out of sync. We play like a bunch of individuals on offense. Like a bunch of people who just picked up some instruments and are playing whatever they want and hoping it makes music.

There is a reason why good free throw shooters have a ritual to their shots and it's usually timed out. 1..bounce the ball. 2. take a breath...3 rise up. 4 take the shot. The equivalent of ball movement and a few passes into an open look is that you get that timing and anticipation prior to rising up to take the shot because you can see the play developing. When you're in the pocket timing wise, you don't think about about the shot as much, you just take it in rhythm and I would argue, players would shoot closer to their actual percentages in this scenario.

Siakam, Fred, Trent, and to an extent OG are all guilty of this. Barnes is starting to do it too now. Precious for sure.

I think everyone wants to show off what they've learnt...ballhandling, shooting, self creation or whatever and so they try and do too much on their own.

A structured system would mitigate this...but we don't hold players accountable on offense.

I think if we can find our groove, the team will look better, but right now we've lost it.

We need a PG who can facilitate that kind of structured system, give it flow, and make others better. We don't have that.

DG88 wrote:What other hidden injuries are we dealing with? Scottie's knee for sure is not well and my guess is that it comes and goes. Not an excuse for not bringing it but still though.

HumbleRen wrote:Look around the league man, it's the deepest it's ever been.

Franz is hooping, Mathurin is hooping, Trey Murphey, Banchero etc etc.

Jalen Green just dropped 30 tonight against a full strenght Bucks team.

The league is starting to overlap us in talent. Effort and hard work isn't enough anymore. You need that talent component and from top to bottom, our roster has no one that has sheer talent aside from Pascal and even he isn't the most fluid offensive player.

ItsDanger wrote:

HumbleRen wrote:Look around the league man, it's the deepest it's ever been.

Franz is hooping, Mathurin is hooping, Trey Murphey, Banchero etc etc.

Jalen Green just dropped 30 tonight against a full strenght Bucks team.

The league is starting to overlap us in talent. Effort and hard work isn't enough anymore. You need that talent component and from top to bottom, our roster has no one that has sheer talent aside from Pascal and even he isn't the most fluid offensive player.

Just as I've been stating recently. Some of these teams are going to throw out 8 man lottery pick rotations very soon. You can't match that deflections and transition offense.

will wrote:

TrustFundBaby wrote:

will wrote:
Yeah, lets trade Scottie Barnes. He is so terrible.

No I'd rather trade FVV & GTJ since they're short unathletic streaky shooters + defensive liability these days but this moping around, zero effort on defense, lack of offense from Barnes is a huge red flag. I need an explanation for why he got so badly lapped by someone like Wagner.

Who is the fvv equivalent on the Magic?

ItsDanger wrote:

HumbleRen wrote:Look around the league man, it's the deepest it's ever been.

Franz is hooping, Mathurin is hooping, Trey Murphey, Banchero etc etc.

Jalen Green just dropped 30 tonight against a full strenght Bucks team.

The league is starting to overlap us in talent. Effort and hard work isn't enough anymore. You need that talent component and from top to bottom, our roster has no one that has sheer talent aside from Pascal and even he isn't the most fluid offensive player.

Just as I've been stating recently. Some of these teams are going to throw out 8 man lottery pick rotations very soon. You can't match that deflections and transition offense.

720 wrote:

goinrogue wrote:

Oakvillehoops wrote:
Just my eye test on the court last year. It really looked to me like Fred wanted Scottie to pay his rookie dues in a sense. And didn’t agree with all the Barnes hype, often looking him off etc

Could be a personality clash. Like Fred getting annoyed about everything being handed to Scottie whereas Fred had to work for everything he has. The media seems to be taking Fred’s side but Fred needs to go. He’s older and is what he is at this point. I’m deeply disappointed in Scottie but Masai won’t give up on him just yet.

In Scottie's first ever game vs the Celtics his rookie year Fred said something and Barnes reacted very aggressively and essentially screamed at Fred. That kind of interaction never happened again as far as I can remember but that was one of their first ever on court friction.

TrustFundBaby wrote:

will wrote:

TrustFundBaby wrote:
No I'd rather trade FVV & GTJ since they're short unathletic streaky shooters + defensive liability these days but this moping around, zero effort on defense, lack of offense from Barnes is a huge red flag. I need an explanation for why he got so badly lapped by someone like Wagner.

Who is the fvv equivalent on the Magic?

They don't have one. They could use the FVV from 2018-2022 tho. But this current FVV is garbage.

Duffman100 wrote:

DG88 wrote:What other hidden injuries are we dealing with? Scottie's knee for sure is not well and my guess is that it comes and goes. Not an excuse for not bringing it but still though.

Sounds like Fred is saying both his knee and back are hurting ha.

Duffman100 wrote:

DG88 wrote:What other hidden injuries are we dealing with? Scottie's knee for sure is not well and my guess is that it comes and goes. Not an excuse for not bringing it but still though.

Sounds like Fred is saying both his knee and back are hurting ha.

DelAbbot wrote:

720 wrote:

goinrogue wrote:
Could be a personality clash. Like Fred getting annoyed about everything being handed to Scottie whereas Fred had to work for everything he has. The media seems to be taking Fred’s side but Fred needs to go. He’s older and is what he is at this point. I’m deeply disappointed in Scottie but Masai won’t give up on him just yet.

In Scottie's first ever game vs the Celtics his rookie year Fred said something and Barnes reacted very aggressively and essentially screamed at Fred. That kind of interaction never happened again as far as I can remember but that was one of their first ever on court friction.

Need to see the video of this

DG88 wrote:

Duffman100 wrote:

DG88 wrote:What other hidden injuries are we dealing with? Scottie's knee for sure is not well and my guess is that it comes and goes. Not an excuse for not bringing it but still though.

Sounds like Fred is saying both his knee and back are hurting ha.

Back I get since he was dealing with it early on. He had a knee on knee then got hit in the head 3 times tonight.

Madvillainy2004 wrote:I'm not against trading Fred or Trent but this team will continue to struggle until it gets shooters no matter how trash you think Fred and Gary are.

ItsDanger wrote:

HumbleRen wrote:Look around the league man, it's the deepest it's ever been.

Franz is hooping, Mathurin is hooping, Trey Murphey, Banchero etc etc.

Jalen Green just dropped 30 tonight against a full strenght Bucks team.

The league is starting to overlap us in talent. Effort and hard work isn't enough anymore. You need that talent component and from top to bottom, our roster has no one that has sheer talent aside from Pascal and even he isn't the most fluid offensive player.

Just as I've been stating recently. Some of these teams are going to throw out 8 man lottery pick rotations very soon. You can't match that deflections and transition offense.

DelAbbot wrote:

Duffman100 wrote:

DG88 wrote:What other hidden injuries are we dealing with? Scottie's knee for sure is not well and my guess is that it comes and goes. Not an excuse for not bringing it but still though.

Sounds like Fred is saying both his knee and back are hurting ha.

That's not good for his FA next summer