Ace Bailey

[zero rings]

I understand Ace isn't an analytics darling but feels like people aren't willing to give him any type of positive praise.

How does he become the #2 prospect in the country if he is low IQ, nothing special athletically, not a great shooter, not that big, not that good of a handle and a meh defender? If he is as bad at half of these things as people want to believe then he must be truly special 1 of 1 at other skills but feels like nobody is willing to concede that.

He became the #2 prospect because high school basketball is bad, and it’s very difficult to evaluate players at that level. Remember when Andrew Wiggins was the next Michael Jordan because of his Ballislife mixtape?

People are down on him now because he wasn’t that good at Rutgers. The jump shot was not as good as advertised, and his BBIQ was non existent. He was the second best player on a team that didn’t even go .500

He may still be a top 5 pick in a pretty shallow draft, but I wouldn’t be thrilled to take him that high.

[JMAC3]

I understand Ace isn't an analytics darling but feels like people aren't willing to give him any type of positive praise.

How does he become the #2 prospect in the country if he is low IQ, nothing special athletically, not a great shooter, not that big, not that good of a handle and a meh defender? If he is as bad at half of these things as people want to believe then he must be truly special 1 of 1 at other skills but feels like nobody is willing to concede that.

He became the #2 prospect because high school basketball is bad, and it’s very difficult to evaluate players at that level. Remember when Andrew Wiggins was the next Michael Jordan because of his Ballislife mixtape?

People are down on him now because he wasn’t that good at Rutgers. The jump shot was not as good as advertised, and his BBIQ was non existent. He was the second best player on a team that didn’t even go .500

He may still be a top 5 pick in a pretty shallow draft, but I wouldn’t be thrilled to take him that high.

Kind of just proved my point though, nothing positive said about Ace here.

[HadAnEffectHere]

I understand Ace isn't an analytics darling but feels like people aren't willing to give him any type of positive praise.

How does he become the #2 prospect in the country if he is low IQ, nothing special athletically, not a great shooter, not that big, not that good of a handle and a meh defender? If he is as bad at half of these things as people want to believe then he must be truly special 1 of 1 at other skills but feels like nobody is willing to concede that.

2021 ESPN recruit rankings, bolded for purpose of argument

1. Chet
2. Jaden Hardy
3. Emoni Bates
4. Paolo
5. Patrick Baldwin Jr.

2023 ESPN recruit rankings, bolded for purpose of argument

1. Isaiah Collier
2. Ron Holland
3. Justin Edwards
4. DJ Wagner
5. Matas
6. Aaron Bradshaw

2019 ESPN recruit rankings, bolded for purpose of argument.

1. James Wiseman

2018 ESPN recruit rankings, bolded for purpose of argument

1. RJ Barrett
2. Zion
3. Cam Reddish
4. Bol Bol
5. Romeo Langford
6. Nassir Little


While some of these guys like Bol Bol were actually freakishly talented and just didn't care, a lot of these guys frankly were not very talented at any point and just tricked scouts. Emoni Bates and DJ Wagner are probably the most obvious guys here. I think Ace can end up being an average starting PF if he stops being delusional, but he doesn't seem that coordinated and his skill level is pretty awful so I don't see stardom here.

Skal is another guy who started the year as the unanimous #2 pick and then people realized... Wait, this guy just isn't talented.

[ReggiesKnicks]

How does he become the #2 prospect in the country if he is low IQ, nothing special athletically, not a great shooter, not that big, not that good of a handle and a meh defender? If he is as bad at half of these things as people want to believe then he must be truly special 1 of 1 at other skills but feels like nobody is willing to concede that.

Are you describing Isaiah Collier, the #1 prospect in the country 2 years ago?

He was the 29th overall pick in 2024 draft, a perceived weak draft.

[JMAC3]

I understand Ace isn't an analytics darling but feels like people aren't willing to give him any type of positive praise.

How does he become the #2 prospect in the country if he is low IQ, nothing special athletically, not a great shooter, not that big, not that good of a handle and a meh defender? If he is as bad at half of these things as people want to believe then he must be truly special 1 of 1 at other skills but feels like nobody is willing to concede that.

2021 ESPN recruit rankings, bolded for purpose of argument

1. Chet
2. Jaden Hardy
3. Emoni Bates
4. Paolo
5. Patrick Baldwin Jr.

2023 ESPN recruit rankings, bolded for purpose of argument

1. Isaiah Collier
2. Ron Holland
3. Justin Edwards
4. DJ Wagner
5. Matas
6. Aaron Bradshaw

2019 ESPN recruit rankings, bolded for purpose of argument.

1. James Wiseman

2018 ESPN recruit rankings, bolded for purpose of argument

1. RJ Barrett
2. Zion
3. Cam Reddish
4. Bol Bol
5. Romeo Langford
6. Nassir Little


While some of these guys like Bol Bol were actually freakishly talented and just didn't care, a lot of these guys frankly were not very talented at any point and just tricked scouts. Emoni Bates and DJ Wagner are probably the most obvious guys here. I think Ace can end up being an average starting PF if he stops being delusional, but he doesn't seem that coordinated and his skill level is pretty awful so I don't see stardom here.

Skal is another guy who started the year as the unanimous #2 pick and then people realized... Wait, this guy just isn't talented.

And Ace was better than all these guys in college, only one that has a case if RJ Barrett, who is still a pretty good NBA player.

[EvanZ]

He reminds me of Jalen McDaniels who I don’t think of as a super high IQ guy.

You mean the left one right?

Jaden lol. I still cannot keep them straight.

[zero rings]

I understand Ace isn't an analytics darling but feels like people aren't willing to give him any type of positive praise.

How does he become the #2 prospect in the country if he is low IQ, nothing special athletically, not a great shooter, not that big, not that good of a handle and a meh defender? If he is as bad at half of these things as people want to believe then he must be truly special 1 of 1 at other skills but feels like nobody is willing to concede that.

He became the #2 prospect because high school basketball is bad, and it’s very difficult to evaluate players at that level. Remember when Andrew Wiggins was the next Michael Jordan because of his Ballislife mixtape?

People are down on him now because he wasn’t that good at Rutgers. The jump shot was not as good as advertised, and his BBIQ was non existent. He was the second best player on a team that didn’t even go .500

He may still be a top 5 pick in a pretty shallow draft, but I wouldn’t be thrilled to take him that high.

Kind of just proved my point though, nothing positive said about Ace here.

Plenty of people still think Ace is a no-brainer at #3.

If you’re looking for positive reinforcement for the things you already believe, there’s no shortage of people who agree with you. I’m just not one of them.

[HadAnEffectHere]

I understand Ace isn't an analytics darling but feels like people aren't willing to give him any type of positive praise.

How does he become the #2 prospect in the country if he is low IQ, nothing special athletically, not a great shooter, not that big, not that good of a handle and a meh defender? If he is as bad at half of these things as people want to believe then he must be truly special 1 of 1 at other skills but feels like nobody is willing to concede that.

2021 ESPN recruit rankings, bolded for purpose of argument

1. Chet
2. Jaden Hardy
3. Emoni Bates
4. Paolo
5. Patrick Baldwin Jr.

2023 ESPN recruit rankings, bolded for purpose of argument

1. Isaiah Collier
2. Ron Holland
3. Justin Edwards
4. DJ Wagner
5. Matas
6. Aaron Bradshaw

2019 ESPN recruit rankings, bolded for purpose of argument.

1. James Wiseman

2018 ESPN recruit rankings, bolded for purpose of argument

1. RJ Barrett
2. Zion
3. Cam Reddish
4. Bol Bol
5. Romeo Langford
6. Nassir Little


While some of these guys like Bol Bol were actually freakishly talented and just didn't care, a lot of these guys frankly were not very talented at any point and just tricked scouts. Emoni Bates and DJ Wagner are probably the most obvious guys here. I think Ace can end up being an average starting PF if he stops being delusional, but he doesn't seem that coordinated and his skill level is pretty awful so I don't see stardom here.

Skal is another guy who started the year as the unanimous #2 pick and then people realized... Wait, this guy just isn't talented.

And Ace was better than all these guys in college, only one that has a case if RJ Barrett, who is still a pretty good NBA player.

Ehh, Ace and Collier had basically the same caliber of season. Collier fell to 29 while Ace is a top 8 lock because none of Collier's game was going to translate to the NBA, but this has almost nothing to do with your original and very odd argument.

[JMAC3]

2021 ESPN recruit rankings, bolded for purpose of argument

1. Chet
2. Jaden Hardy
3. Emoni Bates
4. Paolo
5. Patrick Baldwin Jr.

2023 ESPN recruit rankings, bolded for purpose of argument

1. Isaiah Collier
2. Ron Holland
3. Justin Edwards
4. DJ Wagner
5. Matas
6. Aaron Bradshaw

2019 ESPN recruit rankings, bolded for purpose of argument.

1. James Wiseman

2018 ESPN recruit rankings, bolded for purpose of argument

1. RJ Barrett
2. Zion
3. Cam Reddish
4. Bol Bol
5. Romeo Langford
6. Nassir Little


While some of these guys like Bol Bol were actually freakishly talented and just didn't care, a lot of these guys frankly were not very talented at any point and just tricked scouts. Emoni Bates and DJ Wagner are probably the most obvious guys here. I think Ace can end up being an average starting PF if he stops being delusional, but he doesn't seem that coordinated and his skill level is pretty awful so I don't see stardom here.

Skal is another guy who started the year as the unanimous #2 pick and then people realized... Wait, this guy just isn't talented.

And Ace was better than all these guys in college, only one that has a case if RJ Barrett, who is still a pretty good NBA player.

Ehh, Ace and Collier had basically the same caliber of season. Collier fell to 29 while Ace is a top 8 lock because none of Collier's game was going to translate to the NBA, but this has almost nothing to do with your original and very odd argument.

Right, my point is people just act like Ace is terrible and has no above average skills... yet he was ranked #2.
Cam Reddish, Wiseman and Barrett still were high lottery picks- I don't remember this type of negativity for any of them heading into their drafts. So clearly people must have still believed in their skillsets even though post draft they didn't work out.

[HadAnEffectHere]

Cam Reddish was met with tons of negativity as was Wiseman, what are you talking about.

[BigGargamel]

Cam Reddish was met with tons of negativity as was Wiseman, what are you talking about.

Yeah, Reddish was not great at Duke and people were saying he was just a top ten pick based on his high school rankings, which turned out to be on point.

[JMAC3]

To get back to my main point, people will tell you Ace measured bad at combine, he isn't a good shooter, he is low IQ, he can't dribble and he isn't anything special as an athlete. It is just weird to me how everyone hates this guy that they can't admit he is good at anything. Every post is an attempt to tear him down.

It is all negative, you would think any high school in the kid in the country could be a top 5 recruit if they wanted to and still suck at basketball and then go on to average nearly 18/7 in college as an 18 yr old and still suck at basketball.

[ReggiesKnicks]

And Ace was better than all these guys in college, only one that has a case if RJ Barrett, who is still a pretty good NBA player.

Ehh, Ace and Collier had basically the same caliber of season. Collier fell to 29 while Ace is a top 8 lock because none of Collier's game was going to translate to the NBA, but this has almost nothing to do with your original and very odd argument.

Right, my point is people just act like Ace is terrible and has no above average skills... yet he was ranked #2.
Cam Reddish, Wiseman and Barrett still were high lottery picks- I don't remember this type of negativity for any of them heading into their drafts. So clearly people must have still believed in their skillsets even though post draft they didn't work out.

Are you 5 years old?

I ask because Wiseman and Reddish were picked to shreds. Some people had Okongwu over Wiseman, and there were tons of question marks surrounding Wiseman.

Many people doubted both Wiseman and Reddish.

[NO-KG-AI]

And Ace was better than all these guys in college, only one that has a case if RJ Barrett, who is still a pretty good NBA player.

Ehh, Ace and Collier had basically the same caliber of season. Collier fell to 29 while Ace is a top 8 lock because none of Collier's game was going to translate to the NBA, but this has almost nothing to do with your original and very odd argument.

Right, my point is people just act like Ace is terrible and has no above average skills... yet he was ranked #2.
Cam Reddish, Wiseman and Barrett still were high lottery picks- I don't remember this type of negativity for any of them heading into their drafts. So clearly people must have still believed in their skillsets even though post draft they didn't work out.

Maybe you’re just seeing what you want to see. I liked Wiseman, but plenty said he had no chance of being anything but a bust. Cam Reddish had some people still goofily fooled, but he pretty was only riding the “well if he’s so bad, why was he such a highly rated high school prospect.”

Ace isn’t getting any sort of unfair or unprecedented criticism as a former highly touted recruit.

[NO-KG-AI]

And Ace was better than all these guys in college, only one that has a case if RJ Barrett, who is still a pretty good NBA player.

Ehh, Ace and Collier had basically the same caliber of season. Collier fell to 29 while Ace is a top 8 lock because none of Collier's game was going to translate to the NBA, but this has almost nothing to do with your original and very odd argument.

Right, my point is people just act like Ace is terrible and has no above average skills... yet he was ranked #2.
Cam Reddish, Wiseman and Barrett still were high lottery picks- I don't remember this type of negativity for any of them heading into their drafts. So clearly people must have still believed in their skillsets even though post draft they didn't work out.

Maybe you’re just seeing what you want to see. I liked Wiseman, but plenty said he had no chance of being anything but a bust. Cam Reddish had some people still goofily fooled, but he pretty was only riding the “well if he’s so bad, why was he such a highly rated high school prospect.”

Ace isn’t getting any sort of unfair or unprecedented criticism as a former highly touted recruit. And he’ll still be a high lottery pick as well.

[FarBeyondDriven]

2021 ESPN recruit rankings, bolded for purpose of argument

1. Chet
2. Jaden Hardy
3. Emoni Bates
4. Paolo
5. Patrick Baldwin Jr.

2023 ESPN recruit rankings, bolded for purpose of argument

1. Isaiah Collier
2. Ron Holland
3. Justin Edwards
4. DJ Wagner
5. Matas
6. Aaron Bradshaw

2019 ESPN recruit rankings, bolded for purpose of argument.

1. James Wiseman

2018 ESPN recruit rankings, bolded for purpose of argument

1. RJ Barrett
2. Zion
3. Cam Reddish
4. Bol Bol
5. Romeo Langford
6. Nassir Little


While some of these guys like Bol Bol were actually freakishly talented and just didn't care, a lot of these guys frankly were not very talented at any point and just tricked scouts. Emoni Bates and DJ Wagner are probably the most obvious guys here. I think Ace can end up being an average starting PF if he stops being delusional, but he doesn't seem that coordinated and his skill level is pretty awful so I don't see stardom here.

Skal is another guy who started the year as the unanimous #2 pick and then people realized... Wait, this guy just isn't talented.

And Ace was better than all these guys in college, only one that has a case if RJ Barrett, who is still a pretty good NBA player.

Ehh, Ace and Collier had basically the same caliber of season. Collier fell to 29 while Ace is a top 8 lock because none of Collier's game was going to translate to the NBA, but this has almost nothing to do with your original and very odd argument.

checks notes...16th in the NBA in assists per game and a solid 2:1 assist to turnover ratio on a tanking team

[HadAnEffectHere]

My evaluation of ace

Athleticism: Great explosion, good lateral quickness, not very coordinated, needs to get stronger but this is doable.
Shooting: Very good shooter, but not nearly as great as shooting as his NBA comps (Michael Porter Jr and Lauri Markkanen). Shooting form is kind of terrible and is really inconsistent compared to those guys.
Defense: Very up and down, but could become an above average defender
Skill level: Good at triple threat moves, but not really a ball handler so he can't really create at all.
Feel for the game: Miserable.

His best case scenario is probably a nice 3D PF. His worst case scenario is less talented Kuminga.

[HadAnEffectHere]

And Ace was better than all these guys in college, only one that has a case if RJ Barrett, who is still a pretty good NBA player.

Ehh, Ace and Collier had basically the same caliber of season. Collier fell to 29 while Ace is a top 8 lock because none of Collier's game was going to translate to the NBA, but this has almost nothing to do with your original and very odd argument.

checks notes...16th in the NBA in assists per game and a solid 2:1 assist to turnover ratio on a tanking team

Collier is literally the only player on the roster other than Filipowski who has any idea how an offense should function so he was force fed touches because the rest of the team is so incompetent. His scoring was horrific and probably limits him to a backup PG in the NBA.

Other than Collier and Filipowski, most of the guys on the Jazz are really dumb on the court. Like, just a collection of the worst BBIQ guys you could find.

[JMAC3]

Ehh, Ace and Collier had basically the same caliber of season. Collier fell to 29 while Ace is a top 8 lock because none of Collier's game was going to translate to the NBA, but this has almost nothing to do with your original and very odd argument.

Right, my point is people just act like Ace is terrible and has no above average skills... yet he was ranked #2.
Cam Reddish, Wiseman and Barrett still were high lottery picks- I don't remember this type of negativity for any of them heading into their drafts. So clearly people must have still believed in their skillsets even though post draft they didn't work out.

Are you 5 years old?

I ask because Wiseman and Reddish were picked to shreds. Some people had Okongwu over Wiseman, and there were tons of question marks surrounding Wiseman.

Many people doubted both Wiseman and Reddish.

Wiseman was almost the #1 pick, and sure they may have people who doubted him but there was still more positive talk about him then I see for Ace.

Reddish was truly awful in college 35.6% fg%, 33% from three, 46% efg% and scored 13.5 ppg.
Ace is much better 46% fg%, 35% from three and 51 efg% on 17.6 ppg.

And even still I think there was a more positive buzz around Reddish being a good 3D player.

We are probably 10+ posts into the convo and nobody has said 1 positive thing about Ace, just negative and comparing him to failed prospects....

[tontoz]

If people just look at stats i can see how they wouldn't be impressed with Bailey. But if you watched him over the course of the season it is much easier to like him.

He definitely struggled the first 10 games. Then he played at a completely different level over the next 10 games. Towards the end of the season he seemed to shut it down a bit.

I saw enough during the middle of the season that i wouldnt hesitate to pick him 3-5.