2024-2025 Regular Season Game 51: Orlando Magic (24-26) at Golden State Warriors (24-24) - 10pm

[SOUL]

Pick and rolls work between bigs and smalls because the big can get lobs from being covered by a smaller person while the small has the speed to get into the lane and kick it out or shoot or lob it.

A pick and roll between Franz and Paolo are the same sized dudes who get switched on to same sized defenders, where they drive slower to the rim while 2-3 defenders collapse and reach in trying to strip the ball away.

It can work if there already is a bad defensive matchup on them, otherwise...

[KillMonger]

Paolo has to be better period but it's clear something is off.... He doesn't have the same pop.... He doesn't have the same explosion..... He's getting hung on dunks... He's never played this bad in his life, everything is off and he's trying to play through it

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[Rainwater]

We have to trade for a PG. That's what we do with Paolo. I'm an AB supporter but if he won't get aggressive then we have to use him to get a real PG to run our putrid offense. We need a PG to take the ball out of Paolo's hands because it just sticks, and he plays way to soft for a 6'10" 250 lb person.

I felt like the ball moved well tonight; I just feel like Paolo's shot just wasn't falling.

Black is supposed to be the PG of the future, but he just doesn't do much.

[thelead]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

We need to have a conversation with Paolo

We are 20-15 with Suggs and 4-12 without.

[Bensational]

This might be a stupid question, but why don’t Paolo and Franz ever run PnR together? It’s always just screens to get switches.

I think it's about the action not generating an advantage on the switch

this... and neither can shoot if the defense messes up

On their good nights they can, and they often use those picks to take 3’s (usually WCJ or a guard setting them though).

Just seems like if they ran PnR with both diving at the hoop then someone is getting open somewhere. Probably Isaac for a missed corner 3 but then you start switching up who’s in corners and not.

[OrlandoDream]

Anthony Black needs to be out of the rotation. He is an AWFUL fit alongside Paolo and Franz. Get lit any PG we can before the deadline and either bench him until he becomes better or trade him. Of course KCP continues to show what a bad signing he was. That backcourt of AB and KCP is just the worse possible fit with PAolo/Franz. Still our coach does not make any changes.

Bad coaching, bad roster, and Paolo not playing himself makes it worse. The only positive of this is that by Thurs, Weltman will be making a trade or he really should be on the hotseat.

[SOUL]

This game was winnable though. I think the reffing sucked and Paolo was off again, but this at least was "acceptable" compared to the **** games lately. But no moral victories because we just need a win period.

[Bensational]

Pick and rolls work between bigs and smalls because the big can get lobs from being covered by a smaller person while the small has the speed to get into the lane and kick it out or shoot or lob it.

A pick and roll between Franz and Paolo are the same sized dudes who get switched on to same sized defenders, where they drive slower to the rim while 2-3 defenders collapse and reach in trying to strip the ball away.

It can work if there already is a bad defensive matchup on them, otherwise...

Depends how it’s defended but a good pick should give the ball handler separation which will cause the defense to overcorrect or give up a straight line drive or a 3.

Joe Ingles ran PnR with bigs all the time and he couldn’t outrun turtle. Plenty of his work was done with passes from the perimeter.

I think it’s more that neither Franz nor Paolo know how to be a good roll man, because it’s not like they do to with other guys?

[pepe1991]

We lost game with 18 offensive rebounds, 20 generated FGA more, almost equally terrible shooting as opposing team and yet, only time when we actually looked like we can win was when Banchero and Black were on the bench.

And once again, i don't really care if Banchero misses or makes his shots, it's defense first - he is just flat out bad on that end since returning, AND fact that he makes offense slower & static when he is playing, regardless of shots taken & shots missed.


We simply need to seek for solutions. This isn't working, we pretty much struggle to put 100 points on a board.

If you want to play in this pace and this slow, Black is worst player possible to be playing guard position. He can't do anything at half court, he is useless on offense in such setting. He might be even more useless in such setting than Payton was. Payton at least had solid passing vision.


My comment does NOT mean that Banchero or Black suck, but that team needs to change a whole lot to get better. Losing 9 out of last 10 should be signal for red alert, we are missing nobody but Suggs ( who knows will Moe return as Magic player ).


When you have Goga, Banchero, Black, Franz or Carter instead of Goga, you have 4 players that don't feel comfortable shooting.
Since Pistons game and Franz 4th quarter 3 point barrage he went on 7/31 shooting slump (22%).
His 3 point shooting form is unwatchable.

[SOUL]

Depends how it’s defended but a good pick should give the ball handler separation which will cause the defense to overcorrect or give up a straight line drive or a 3.

Joe Ingles ran PnR with bigs all the time and he couldn’t outrun turtle. Plenty of his work was done with passes from the perimeter.

I think it’s more that neither Franz nor Paolo know how to be a good roll man, because it’s not like they do to with other guys?

Moe plays like a traditional big though and is very adept inside, Ingles has unique passing angles that know how to reach guys in their pocket. Don't think Franz and Paolo have that touch as passers in terms of "I need to set up my guy in the perfect position".

But yeah, also, they are just both really solid iso players but both want to do completely different things with it usually.

[Bensational]

But yeah, also, they are just both really solid iso players but both want to do completely different things with it usually.

Off-season assignment #1 for them I guess is to learn PnR.

I’m trying to imagine how the offense runs even if we add a PG. Do those two still just camp in the corners and elbows whilst the PG runs an opening PnR with a big and kicks it out to one of them if nothing is there?

[Ducklett]

Luka-type Paolo trade incoming. What is Serge Ibaka doing nowadays?

[thelead]

But yeah, also, they are just both really solid iso players but both want to do completely different things with it usually.

Off-season assignment #1 for them I guess is to learn PnR.

I’m trying to imagine how the offense runs even if we add a PG. Do those two still just camp in the corners and elbows whilst the PG runs an opening PnR with a big and kicks it out to one of them if nothing is there?

The rookie Franz/WCJ PnR was a thing of beauty actually

[Orl_Magic]

we need to keep losing so Weltman actually pulls the trigger for Simons or Cam Johnson

[Knightro]

But yeah, also, they are just both really solid iso players but both want to do completely different things with it usually.

Off-season assignment #1 for them I guess is to learn PnR.

I’m trying to imagine how the offense runs even if we add a PG. Do those two still just camp in the corners and elbows whilst the PG runs an opening PnR with a big and kicks it out to one of them if nothing is there?

It’s easy to scream “this team needs a point guard!” into the void (not saying you’re doing this now).

But there’s fundamental ways this offense, and in particular how Paolo and Franz have each played for the last three years straight, will have to change in order for that to be a thing.

Adding a point guard isn’t some magical pixie dust that is going to change things immediately for the better.

There’s an overhaul process that would have to happen too that I suspect would look quite ugly for a while depending on who the point guard is.

[VFX]

I don’t know what sounds better.

Weltman actually making moves to fix his stupid mess

Or

Watching this team burn to the ground for the rest of the season.

I’m honestly ok with either at this point in the last two weeks. I’m past caring or drawing up hypothetical trades that haven’t happened in almost 4 years. Maybe this should show that Mosely isn’t a genius and the Front Office needs to be fired.

[ogmagicfan]

But yeah, also, they are just both really solid iso players but both want to do completely different things with it usually.

Off-season assignment #1 for them I guess is to learn PnR.

I’m trying to imagine how the offense runs even if we add a PG. Do those two still just camp in the corners and elbows whilst the PG runs an opening PnR with a big and kicks it out to one of them if nothing is there?

The rookie Franz/WCJ PnR was a thing of beauty actually

The Wagna Carta memes

[ogmagicfan]

The guy has been back playing NBA games for almost a month at this point, man.

It's been well over a month in total when you factor in they gave him two weeks of scrimmaging for the sole purpose of reconditioning.

When should we expect him to be in shape and not rusty?

His play has gotten progressive worse over the last 10-ish days compared to the first two weeks he was back too.

I think they said Desmond Bane (the last person really documented with an oblique) as well as Lillard took like a month to look the same.

It's not even the shot being off, it's him looking slower and unable to get past people and finishing even weaker than before. Clearly that seems like conditioning.

Unfortunately, I think it'll take basically until this summer to really build up that confidence again post-injury, but I think the all-star break will at least help clear his mind a bit and hopefully get conditioning at least close to what it was earlier in the year.

Some people suck for extended periods of time even without injuries. Haliburton looked off for like 5 months.

Worst part is that Bane & Lillard both had strains, Paolo & Franz both tore theirs. Along with Paolo tearing his then playing on it for a half of a game.

So I expect them to come into form, specifically Paolo to take more time than it did for Bane or Lillard. If you watched how they both played after coming back, they were so bad that the reactions from their fan bases were the same as we're having right now.

It's arguably affecting him as much if not more defensively than on offense.

Franz is also not playing as well defensively as his standard before.

Big part of the reason why our defense has fallen apart, we got 2 players who are still working their way back.

Suggs being out hurts too, but that fella got so many injuries that I'm happy he's actually getting a rest

[Bensational]

But yeah, also, they are just both really solid iso players but both want to do completely different things with it usually.

Off-season assignment #1 for them I guess is to learn PnR.

I’m trying to imagine how the offense runs even if we add a PG. Do those two still just camp in the corners and elbows whilst the PG runs an opening PnR with a big and kicks it out to one of them if nothing is there?

It’s easy to scream “this team needs a point guard!” into the void (not saying you’re doing this now).

But there’s fundamental ways this offense, and in particular how Paolo and Franz have each played for the last three years straight, will have to change in order for that to be a thing.

Adding a point guard isn’t some magical pixie dust that is going to change things immediately for the better.

There’s an overhaul process that would have to happen too that I suspect would look quite ugly for a while depending on who the point guard is.

Lol, how have we swapped sides? That was my main argument about the Magic not chasing a PG previously and now I’m pining for FVV.

But yeah, team would have to learn a whole new way of playing. Hard to argue that the team doesn’t need it.

[SOUL]

Sometimes injuries derail seasons. Sucks when it's our team because it feels like it always happens to us. We're still a flawed team without those injuries, but having all of our top three options go out for months, trying to re-work it all together, having a bunch of other players get hurt, sick, etc all randomly, and then hitting a rough patch teams usually have even without injuries.. makes it look terrible.

Maybe it's good because without those, Weltman sits on his hands. Maybe he still does it, but there's no way he can see this and punt on acquiring help before big contracts start kicking in.