Team Canada Basketball Thread

[mojo13]

Another good game for Pangos yesterday against Panathinaikos in Greece. 14 points (50% from 2, 60% from 3) and 8 assists. The game went to overtime, where Pangos scored what seemed like the winning shot with 4 seconds left. But then Nick Calathes managed to run the entire court in these 4 seconds and score a buzzer-beater.

For the season (20 games), Pangos is taking 5 3-point shots a game, converting on almost half of these attempts and is third in the Euroleague in Assists. Hope he can suit up for team Canada this summer.

You should watch the last few minutes of regulation and overtime to get a good example of European home court refereeing. Until the EL and to a greater extent FIBA and its affiliate leagues - get a handle on things like this they will never hold a candle to the NBA.
Ridiculously in favor of home team Panathinaikos.

Another great game for Pangos especially without captain Paulius Jankūnas who some think is Zalgiris's best player. KP is showing game by game, that distinction might belong to him.

Is there anyone out there that would debate Tyler Ennis is better than Pangos right now? Or am I being overly biased to KP? Ennis has been more involved in Team Canada over the last couple years, and that is the only reason I could see him beating out KP right now.

[frumble]

DraftExpress 2018 mock-draft is out with what looks like team needs taken into account... Shai at 19 to NOP. Write-up below.

"With Rajon Rondo in the last year of his deal and no clear successor behind him, it would make sense for the Pelicans to think about drafting a versatile point guard who can operate in different lineups without dominating the ball for a team whose usage is largely sucked up by DeMarcus Cousins, Anthony Davis and Jrue Holiday.

Gilgeous-Alexander has the size, length, multipositional defensive versatility and unselfishness needed to operate as a role player alongside stars."

Thanks for sharing the info. What guards did they have ahead of SGA? Young and Sexton I assume, but who else?

Do you know if they have posted a 2019 mock?

Thanks.

Another good game for Pangos yesterday against Panathinaikos in Greece. 14 points (50% from 2, 60% from 3) and 8 assists. The game went to overtime, where Pangos scored what seemed like the winning shot with 4 seconds left. But then Nick Calathes managed to run the entire court in these 4 seconds and score a buzzer-beater.

For the season (20 games), Pangos is taking 5 3-point shots a game, converting on almost half of these attempts and is third in the Euroleague in Assists. Hope he can suit up for team Canada this summer.

Yes, he would be a great add. Would be nice to get him back in the fold for Canada. I realize it is partly due to events beyond his control, but Pangos has never played for Canada at the senior level (last appearance was at the U19s seven years ago).

[mojo13]

Canada Basketball shot out a tweet implying both February games will be in Nassau, Bahamas. This indicate USVI is still unable to host a home game due to hurricane damage. This should be somewhat good news for Canada as there (I assume) will be less of a home court advantage for USVI. A mini-neutral sight game, versus a true road game.

[Hair Canada]

Another good game for Pangos yesterday against Panathinaikos in Greece. 14 points (50% from 2, 60% from 3) and 8 assists. The game went to overtime, where Pangos scored what seemed like the winning shot with 4 seconds left. But then Nick Calathes managed to run the entire court in these 4 seconds and score a buzzer-beater.

For the season (20 games), Pangos is taking 5 3-point shots a game, converting on almost half of these attempts and is third in the Euroleague in Assists. Hope he can suit up for team Canada this summer.

You should watch the last few minutes of regulation and overtime to get a good example of European home court refereeing. Until the EL and to a greater extent FIBA and its affiliate leagues - get a handle on things like this they will never hold a candle to the NBA.
Ridiculously in favor of home team Panathinaikos.

Another great game for Pangos especially without captain Paulius Jankūnas who some think is Zalgiris's best player. KP is showing game by game, that distinction might belong to him.

Is there anyone out there that would debate Tyler Ennis is better than Pangos right now? Or am I being overly biased to KP? Ennis has been more involved in Team Canada over the last couple years, and that is the only reason I could see him beating out KP right now.

Not sure about Tyler, but Dylan Ennis just had the best game of his professional career: 21 points (8/12 from the field), 8 rebounds and 5 assists in only 17 minutes of Euroleague play. Did he ever play for team Canada? He seemed to be quite a proud Canadian back at his Oregon days (well, not that much back; it was only last year).

[aminiaturebuddha]

Canada Basketball shot out a tweet implying both February games will be in Nassau, Bahamas. This indicate USVI is still unable to host a home game due to hurricane damage. This should be somewhat good news for Canada as there (I assume) will be less of a home court advantage for USVI. A mini-neutral sight game, versus a true road game.

Also means less travel, which might be helpful. But perhaps more importantly, a week in the Bahamas in February might be an attractive offer for any players who might have been on the fence about traveling such a long way for games (like Nicholson from China, for instance).

[mojo13]

Another good game for Pangos yesterday against Panathinaikos in Greece. 14 points (50% from 2, 60% from 3) and 8 assists. The game went to overtime, where Pangos scored what seemed like the winning shot with 4 seconds left. But then Nick Calathes managed to run the entire court in these 4 seconds and score a buzzer-beater.

For the season (20 games), Pangos is taking 5 3-point shots a game, converting on almost half of these attempts and is third in the Euroleague in Assists. Hope he can suit up for team Canada this summer.

You should watch the last few minutes of regulation and overtime to get a good example of European home court refereeing. Until the EL and to a greater extent FIBA and its affiliate leagues - get a handle on things like this they will never hold a candle to the NBA.
Ridiculously in favor of home team Panathinaikos.

Another great game for Pangos especially without captain Paulius Jankūnas who some think is Zalgiris's best player. KP is showing game by game, that distinction might belong to him.

Is there anyone out there that would debate Tyler Ennis is better than Pangos right now? Or am I being overly biased to KP? Ennis has been more involved in Team Canada over the last couple years, and that is the only reason I could see him beating out KP right now.

Not sure about Tyler, but Dylan Ennis just had the best game of his professional career: 21 points (8/12 from the field), 8 rebounds and 5 assists in only 17 minutes of Euroleague play. Did he ever play for team Canada? He seemed to be quite a proud Canadian back at his Oregon days (well, not that much back; it was only last year).

Great game by Ennis - great win over Oly too.
Ennis certainly never played for Canada at the senior level and I don't think at the youth level either. He screwed himself (and us!) by playing for Jamaica's senior team in the 2013 FIBA Americas. He really is sort of a late bloomer and never seemed to be pulled into Canada's national system. I always thought he was just ok in the NCAA - nothing special. I never expected him to playing in the EuroLeague, let alone professionally anywhere at a decent level.

He can always switch back to Canada (I think*) - but he would need Jamaica's permission, which they might not want to give.

*I read (at least for soccer) you can switch country allegiances only once. Not sure if it applies to FIBA, and if Jamaica was his first allegiance he may be able to switch to Canada his one time.

[TheFutureMM]

DraftExpress 2018 mock-draft is out with what looks like team needs taken into account... Shai at 19 to NOP. Write-up below.

"With Rajon Rondo in the last year of his deal and no clear successor behind him, it would make sense for the Pelicans to think about drafting a versatile point guard who can operate in different lineups without dominating the ball for a team whose usage is largely sucked up by DeMarcus Cousins, Anthony Davis and Jrue Holiday.

Gilgeous-Alexander has the size, length, multipositional defensive versatility and unselfishness needed to operate as a role player alongside stars."

Thanks for sharing the info. What guards did they have ahead of SGA? Young and Sexton I assume, but who else?

Do you know if they have posted a 2019 mock?

Thanks.

No worries - between HairCanada and I, we seem to have the ESPN Insider stuff covered. Guards + Wings ahead of SGA (positions according to Givony)...

1) Doncic (PG)
7) Young (PG)
9) Miles Bridges (SF/PF)
10) Sexton (PG)
11) Mikal Bridges (SF)
14) Troy Brown (SF)
15) Musa (SF)
16) Chandler Hutchinson (SF)
18) Lonnie Walker IV (SG/SF)
19 SGA (PG/SG)

I added the SFs as there are a couple that I think could play at the 2 in the NBA - Brown in particular is definitely a "swing-man" and not locked to either position.

[Mirotic12]

You should watch the last few minutes of regulation and overtime to get a good example of European home court refereeing. Until the EL and to a greater extent FIBA and its affiliate leagues - get a handle on things like this they will never hold a candle to the NBA.
Ridiculously in favor of home team Panathinaikos.

The reffing has absolutely nothing to do with EuroLeague or FIBA. It's a colossal problem that is 100 times bigger than that. It has to do with the insane owner of Panathinaikos, and all of the unbelievable insane things he has done.

No American/Canadian sports fan would even believe how insane it is. It's a situation completely beyond the scope of EuroLeague or FIBA.

There is not another team in Europe that ever will have the kind of reffing Panathinaikos gets. Nothing like that ever happens except with Panathinaikos. And the reasons for it are something EuroLeague could never control.

[Hair Canada]

Some bad news: Simi Sittu's (can't spell his last name correctly, because forum rules turn it into a bunch of XXX) injury turns out to be worse than what was previously thought. He just underwent surgery to repair his torn ACL. Still expected to open the season next November with Vanderbilt, but no guarantees. In the short run, this will definitely not help his draft stock. His game is largely based on athleticism and high motor, so any doubts about his ability to excel in these areas are going to hurt him. But in the long run, it really depends more on how he's going to come back from this and perform on his rookie college season.

In any case, this is quite disappointing, as he is one of the best two players in the excellent class of 2018, alongside RJ Barrett.

[UcanUwill]

Another good game for Pangos yesterday against Panathinaikos in Greece. 14 points (50% from 2, 60% from 3) and 8 assists. The game went to overtime, where Pangos scored what seemed like the winning shot with 4 seconds left. But then Nick Calathes managed to run the entire court in these 4 seconds and score a buzzer-beater.

For the season (20 games), Pangos is taking 5 3-point shots a game, converting on almost half of these attempts and is third in the Euroleague in Assists. Hope he can suit up for team Canada this summer.

You should watch the last few minutes of regulation and overtime to get a good example of European home court refereeing. Until the EL and to a greater extent FIBA and its affiliate leagues - get a handle on things like this they will never hold a candle to the NBA.
Ridiculously in favor of home team Panathinaikos.

Another great game for Pangos especially without captain Paulius Jankūnas who some think is Zalgiris's best player. KP is showing game by game, that distinction might belong to him.

Is there anyone out there that would debate Tyler Ennis is better than Pangos right now? Or am I being overly biased to KP? Ennis has been more involved in Team Canada over the last couple years, and that is the only reason I could see him beating out KP right now.

I am Zalgiris fan, but I didn't really feel that refs were biased, I dont know. ZAlgiris choked, they had 7 point lead in OT I believe. I think Pangos is way better than Ennis honestly by the way.

[Mirotic12]

Olympiacos made a report of 18 blatant shooting fouls that Panathinaikos committed in their last game, without being called for them. While with Olympiacos, they were in the foul penalty in the first 3 minutes of each quarter.

The response they got back from the Greek refs commission (which is owned by Panathinaikos), was that the refs punished Olympiacos because they didn't like how they were playing.

Every serious EuroLeague fan knows, that you can't get fair reffing against Panathinaikos at their home arena, and in Greek League, you can't even get fair reffing against them in your own arena. Already in Greek League this year, Kolossos, Lavrio, AEK, PAOK, Aris, and Olympiacos (twice) openly complained how the refs clearly favored Panathinaikos in their games.

This same ridiculous nonsense, of having Panathinaikos run the Greek federation, Greek League, and Greek ref commission, and getting ref help in all their games, has been going on for like 20 years now.

[mojo13]

Last week in Canadian Pro's:
http://www.usbasket.com/Canada/news/521164/Andrew-Wiggins'-40-points-make-him-top-Canadian-player-abroad-of-the-week

Of note:
Dyshawn Pierre is beasting lately - and is seemingly morphing into Sassari's best player.
Tommy Scrubb is continuing his excellent play as well.
Phil Scrubb still hurt - no new updates. Hasn't played since mid-Dec.

Kenny Cherry (PG, ex-Baylor)) is worth pointing out as we havn't talked about him much. He is playing well for a mid-level Spanish ACB club (Gipuzkoa) second on his team in scoring. Played u18s for Canada some time ago.


Looking at G-League boxscores from time to time - Hanlan and XRM seem to be playing the best of our G-League crew. Bennett is seemingly up and down. Boucher is still on a minutes limit with some DNPs sprinkled in as they are easing him back slowly. But in the 15 or so minutes a game he looks quite productive in his unique way.


If we look at our Nov. qualification team it seems our best players are XRM, Hanlan, Pierre, Tommy Scrubb and Marc Trasolini with me still a little unsure about Anthony Bennett (looks great for a game or two and then disappears). And Phil Scrubb not likely able to play. I hope that crew gets heavy minutes in Feb. and/or we get a reinforcement or two (Long? Ejim? Nicholson?). I'm sure Heslip will be there, but him getting heavy minutes is a recipe for a trouble.



And I wanted to point out Tyler Ennis has been the Lakers starting PG for most of the month of January and has been quite terrible.
15.6 MPG, 3.9 ppg, 2.4 assts, 2.0 rbds, .359 FG%, .286 3P%.
Talk here is he is on the edge of being waived, but kept around til the trade deadline in case needed as ballast.
Does he catch on with another team? I mean, we can't say he hasn't gotten his chance at this point. Maybe he needs some time outside the NBA to strengthen his game.

[aminiaturebuddha]

And I wanted to point out Tyler Ennis has been the Lakers starting PG for most of the month of January and has been quite terrible.
15.6 MPG, 3.9 ppg, 2.4 assts, 2.0 rbds, .359 FG%, .286 3P%.
Talk here is he is on the edge of being waived, but kept around til the trade deadline in case needed as ballast.
Does he catch on with another team? I mean, we can't say he hasn't gotten his chance at this point. Maybe he needs some time outside the NBA to strengthen his game.

Yeah, I really think both Ennis and Stauskas need to cut bait at this point and go play in Europe (not likely to happen until next season though). They're both young enough that they still have time to grow as players and define the kind of players they want to be. Maybe they'll get another shot at the NBA in a few years if they can really establish themselves. But for now, young guys need consistent playing time to develop, and they're just not getting that.

Ennis doesn't seem like he's good enough to really make a case as an NBA player who deserves big minutes. And Stauskas is just so damn inconsistent that I'm sure his coaches never know what they're going to get from him, which is probably why his minutes get jerked around so much.

I still think both are definitely high level professional ball players, but it doesn't seem like the NBA is going to work out. Probably best to try to make a big splash in another league, which I think they're both (especially Stauskas) capable of. They're also still both A or B team players for the national team, so hopefully their careers don't just stall out sitting on NBA benches.

[Hair Canada]

And I wanted to point out Tyler Ennis has been the Lakers starting PG for most of the month of January and has been quite terrible.
15.6 MPG, 3.9 ppg, 2.4 assts, 2.0 rbds, .359 FG%, .286 3P%.
Talk here is he is on the edge of being waived, but kept around til the trade deadline in case needed as ballast.
Does he catch on with another team? I mean, we can't say he hasn't gotten his chance at this point. Maybe he needs some time outside the NBA to strengthen his game.

Yeah, I really think both Ennis and Stauskas need to cut bait at this point and go play in Europe (not likely to happen until next season though). They're both young enough that they still have time to grow as players and define the kind of players they want to be. Maybe they'll get another shot at the NBA in a few years if they can really establish themselves. But for now, young guys need consistent playing time to develop, and they're just not getting that.

Ennis doesn't seem like he's good enough to really make a case as an NBA player who deserves big minutes. And Stauskas is just so damn inconsistent that I'm sure his coaches never know what they're going to get from him, which is probably why his minutes get jerked around so much.

I still think both are definitely high-level professional ball players, but it doesn't seem like the NBA is going to work out. Probably best to try to make a big splash in another league, which I think they're both (especially Stauskas) capable of. They're also still both A or B team players for the national team, so hopefully their careers don't just stall out sitting on NBA benches.

\

While I tend to agree with both of you in terms of pure basketball, I also think that it's unlikely they will make this move out of their own volition. For North American players, it's very hard to give up the NBA dream, especially those who are already in it. European players know where they are going when they go back to Europe from the NBA. They often also have at least one team that knows them well and is willing to take a chance on them with a high salary. And for many of them, if they go back to their country, there's also a loyal fanbase, who's happy to see them back (think Rodriguez, Fernandez, or Nevaro in Barcelona).

Another important issue here is money. Stauskas is currently making nearly 3mil. It's quite unlikely, but if he gets a qualifying offer for next year, it's going to be more than 5mil. But even if not, I believe the minimum salary for a player with his seniority (and Ennis's) is more than 1.5mil a year. I don't think many European teams are willing to offer such contracts to unproven first-time-Euroleague players. Some players make the move from the NBA well, but many do not and the big European teams usually prefer to go with proven guys.

Just one example that comes to mind: Norris Cole, who arguably has done more in his NBA career than Stauskas (and no doubt more than Ennis) decided to move to the Euroleague this year. He got a $700,000 contract with Maccabi Tel Aviv. Perhaps he had no choice, but that's certainly much less than what an NBA team would pay. Seems to me that with the new NBA collective bargin, it's just become very hard for players to CHOOSE to quit the NBA.

In sum, if I'm Stauskas, and even Ennis, I'd probably be taking any NBA offer I get next year and just keep hoping to get some bigger minutes and maybe carve a niche. In the long run, at least economically, staying in the NBA is almost always more worthwhile.

[mojo13]

Agree with most everything but want to mention that it has been pointed out that Euro contracts are quoted and paid in after tax dollars. And usually have a load of perks (car, accommodations, food all paid for). Cole's 700k after tax is likely pretty close to the NBA minimum. But also likely ungauranteed. Khem birch was asked his favorite thing about playing in the NBA. His response: "actually getting paid what you are owed."

[Hair Canada]

Great games for most of the leading NCAA Canadians last two days.

Started on Tuesday with Shai and his 30-point game. There's another recent thread on him (seems like the larger Canadian fanbase is finally picking up on him), so no need to repeat, but seems like he's really building his case for that first-round pick this coming draft.

On Wednesday, Wigginton gave another excellent game. 22 and 5 assists with good shooting. Iowa beat #15 West Virginia, after previously taking down then #8 Texas Tech. In general, Lindell is probably playing in the toughest NCAA conference, and would clearly be ROY for this conference if Oklahoma's Trey Young wasn't also in the picture. Over the last 7, Lindell has been scoring 19 points a game, shooting more than 3 threes a game in almost 50% (he's 43% behind the arc for the season). If he can sustain this kind of shooting, perhaps he can really become a decent NBA shooting guard, an Eric Gordon-like as a best-case scenario.

Marcus Carr scored 14 and dished 7, continuing his solid rookie season for the struggling Pittsburgh.

NAW also had a good shooting night with 18.

Finally, two more senior guards are really doing well lately:

Trae Bell-Haynes with 21, 8 rebounds, and 6 assists. Over the last 7 games, he's been scoring more than 20 points a game, with good shooting from 3 and overall (opened the season with some bad shooting games). Last year he was in the all-conference team and this year (his Senior) he's playing even better and leading a winning team (Vermont won their last 12, albeit not in a very strong conference). Haven't seen him in action much, but he seems to have some decent pro potential.

Last, but not least, Sophomore Koby McEwen scored a career-high 31 points yesterday (6-8 from three), adding 13 rebounds, 6 assists, and 3 steals. After an excellent rookie year, Koby really didn't open this year well, but has been playing well recently. Over the last 11, he's been scoring 18 points a game, with more than 7 rebounds and 3.5 assists. Unfortunately, he hasn't been shooting the ball very well this year. Last year he seemed like with a bit more development he could be an NBA-level combo, with good shooting and decent playmaking. Still might happen, but he'll need to show better shooting for that to materialize.

[Mirotic12]

While I tend to agree with both of you in terms of pure basketball, I also think that it's unlikely they will make this move out of their own volition. For North American players, it's very hard to give up the NBA dream, especially those who are already in it. European players know where they are going when they go back to Europe from the NBA. They often also have at least one team that knows them well and is willing to take a chance on them with a high salary. And for many of them, if they go back to their country, there's also a loyal fanbase, who's happy to see them back (think Rodriguez, Fernandez, or Nevaro in Barcelona).

Another important issue here is money. Stauskas is currently making nearly 3mil. It's quite unlikely, but if he gets a qualifying offer for next year, it's going to be more than 5mil. But even if not, I believe the minimum salary for a player with his seniority (and Ennis's) is more than 1.5mil a year. I don't think many European teams are willing to offer such contracts to unproven first-time-Euroleague players. Some players make the move from the NBA well, but many do not and the big European teams usually prefer to go with proven guys.

Just one example that comes to mind: Norris Cole, who arguably has done more in his NBA career than Stauskas (and no doubt more than Ennis) decided to move to the Euroleague this year. He got a $700,000 contract with Maccabi Tel Aviv. Perhaps he had no choice, but that's certainly much less than what an NBA team would pay. Seems to me that with the new NBA collective bargin, it's just become very hard for players to CHOOSE to quit the NBA.

In sum, if I'm Stauskas, and even Ennis, I'd probably be taking any NBA offer I get next year and just keep hoping to get some bigger minutes and maybe carve a niche. In the long run, at least economically, staying in the NBA is almost always more worthwhile.

Well, the average rotation player in EuroLeague probably makes more than that (except on teams like Zalgiris or Red Star). So I think they could actually very easily make a lot more than the vet minimum. An NBA rotation player should easily get more than that, even without EuroLeague experience. It's when NBA players with no European experience start asking for 3-4 million a year that teams balk.

Remember, Norris Cole's contract is net income. It's the amount after all taxes are paid, plus the team pays his agent, plus he gets all his living expenses and bills paid by the club. So it's more like $1.6 million, in how the NBA counts salary.

[Pooh_Jeter]

I think Tyler Ennis definitely needs to look at non-NBA options. It's looking like his shooting numbers from last year were an anomaly. If he isn't shooting at a reasonable rate I don't see how you can justify rostering him. It's not just the 3 point shooting, but his finishing around the basket has been bad too. He just doesn't have a skill that keeps him on a roster at the moment IMO. Hopefully with steady playing time somewhere else he can develop his game and be a contributor for Canada going forward.

I think Stauskas should stick around. He has been getting some burn with the Nets and has looked decent. Most importantly he is shooting lights out and he can choose where he wants to go next year. He can shoot, handle the ball a bit and while he isn't much of a defender it isn't as though he is a complete zero athletically. He has some hops. There has to be a team in the league next year who could use him as a 10-12 minute bench option next year especially if he keeps up his shooting numbers.

[frumble]

Tor and Ott announced as the sites for the Canada Day weekend qualifying games against the DR and VI.

http://www.basketball.ca/en/news-article/toronto-and-ottawa-to-host-upcoming-fiba-basketball-world-cup-20

Now less than three weeks away from the road game against VI. Anyone hearing anything re the roster?

[mojo13]

Tor and Ott announced as the sites for the Canada Day weekend qualifying games against the DR and VI.

http://www.basketball.ca/en/news-article/toronto-and-ottawa-to-host-upcoming-fiba-basketball-world-cup-20

Now less than three weeks away from the road game against VI. Anyone hearing anything re the roster?

Nope. Not much.
Phil Scrubb's knee is still messed up and thus I heard Rowan Barrett was attending a few 905 games scouting a replacement. Likely Aaron Best or maybe just looking at Keane closer.

A couple FIBA Americas teams have announced their player pools - lots of European teams have as well, with still many including EuroLeague players. Precedent has been set by Canada Basketball over and over - don't expect anything more than 7-10 days out.

XRM has been ballin' in the G so lets hope he doesn't get a call up. Dyshawn Pierre and Tommy Scrubb have been playing great in Italy, so hopefully they get more minutes for Canada. Assuming no real reinforcements to the Nov team - it seems our best players right now are XRM and Hanlan with some Heslip sprinkled in at Guard. Pierre and T. Scrubb at Wing/forward and Trasolini / Bennett up front. If they tighten up the rotation and keep Keane/Anthony/Glaze/Klassen off the floor except for emergencies it is not horrible but not that impressive roster.
I'd throw all the minutes they could handle at XRM/Hanlan/Pierre and pray Bennett can bring some value (he dropped 29 points 10/16 FGs and 7/12 3Pts last night in probably his best G-League game - but was 1/7 FG for 2 points the night before in 34 minutes).
XRM killed it Wed. night against the 905 going for 26/7/5.
XRM, Hanlan, Bennett and Long are clearly our best in the G - it would be nice to have all four for these upcoming games.