Official Trade Thread - Part XXX

[deneem4]

Harden and Beal's numbers are pretty much the same? Other than they both use numbers, not so much. I don't like Harden's attitude or lack of defense but his efficiency even in a down year dwarfs anything Beal has ever done. Beal looks like a player, flashes like a player, but for actual production not so much so far. Plus his injuries are a concern.

I was meaning back when harden was on the thunder.
Other than free throws and being a better ball handler( and also playing with kd n Westbrook) they're 3rd season compared isn't much different...(harden also wasn't stuck in randy system)

In Hardens 3rd year he posted a .66 TS% and had a ws/48 of .230. Meanwhile, in Beal's 3rd year he had a .52 TS% and a ws/48 of .085. Those numbers aren't even close

He was a 6th man playing with 2 of the best scorers in the league... Put beal in harden place on that team

Account the personal... Harden wasn't even the best shooter on his team

[montestewart]

I was meaning back when harden was on the thunder.
Other than free throws and being a better ball handler( and also playing with kd n Westbrook) they're 3rd season compared isn't much different...(harden also wasn't stuck in randy system)

In Hardens 3rd year he posted a .66 TS% and had a ws/48 of .230. Meanwhile, in Beal's 3rd year he had a .52 TS% and a ws/48 of .085. Those numbers aren't even close

He was a 6th man playing with 2 of the best scorers in the league... Put beal in harden place on that team

Account the personal... Harden wasn't even the best shooter on his team

You're right, he was not the best shooter on that team, as Ryan Reid had a higher TS%. We should have traded Beal's rights for reid.

Last year, Harden still had a .605 TS% and a WS/48 of .265 (leading the league w/ 16.4 WS) and 28.1 ppg. No Durant, no Westbrook. So you're saying put Beal on that team and…what are you saying?

[fishercob]

Here's a deal that would get completely panned on the trade board, but could make sense in real life come summertime:

Satoransky for Bobby Portis

It would obviously depend on Chicago's assessment of Saty, but they have had good success with Mirotic. They probably scout the ACB extensively.The Bulls and Saty could work out contract terms beforehand. He could well give them a great bridge option at PG -- can play next to or instead of Rose, and will probably come cheap relative to the free agent PG's already in the NBA. He's probably more ready than many as well.

Wiz just so desperately need a young talent up front. I like Satoransky, but I'd roll with Sessions and Temple on good, shortish deals.

[nate33]

Here's a deal that would get completely panned on the trade board, but could make sense in real life come summertime:

Satoransky for Bobby Portis

It would obviously depend on Chicago's assessment of Saty, but they have had good success with Mirotic. They probably scout the ACB extensively.The Bulls and Saty could work out contract terms beforehand. He could well give them a great bridge option at PG -- can play next to or instead of Rose, and will probably come cheap relative to the free agent PG's already in the NBA. He's probably more ready than many as well.

Wiz just so desperately need a young talent up front. I like Satoransky, but I'd roll with Sessions and Temple on good, shortish deals.

I would absolutely love that trade. I'm excited that Sato looks to be a promising player, but I'm worried that he reportedly is a pure PG with minimal ability to play off the ball and spread the floor. I fear his talents would be wasted on a team with John Wall. If we could turn him into an asset at a position of need, and then retain Sessions (whom I love) as a backup PG, I think we'd be much better off.

[queridiculo]

++ on that deal, win win for both teams.

[queridiculo]

I was meaning back when harden was on the thunder.
Other than free throws and being a better ball handler( and also playing with kd n Westbrook) they're 3rd season compared isn't much different...(harden also wasn't stuck in randy system)

Conveniently dismissing the one aspect severely missing from Beals game, ball handling...

On top of being a plus defender, in his final year with the Thunder Harden had a TS of .660 and rated a 21.13 in Hollingers PER.

This year Beal has the highest TS of his career at .533 and a PER of 14.53, also a career best.

Harden was a much better player with the Thunder, it's not even close.

[deneem4]

In Hardens 3rd year he posted a .66 TS% and had a ws/48 of .230. Meanwhile, in Beal's 3rd year he had a .52 TS% and a ws/48 of .085. Those numbers aren't even close

He was a 6th man playing with 2 of the best scorers in the league... Put beal in harden place on that team

Account the personal... Harden wasn't even the best shooter on his team

You're right, he was not the best shooter on that team, as Ryan Reid had a higher TS%. We should have traded Beal's rights for reid.

Last year, Harden still had a .605 TS% and a WS/48 of .265 (leading the league w/ 16.4 WS) and 28.1 ppg. No Durant, no Westbrook. So you're saying put Beal on that team and…what are you saying?

Put beal on that team he will average 25, 6,7 atleast and he will have better defense

[Ruzious]

He was a 6th man playing with 2 of the best scorers in the league... Put beal in harden place on that team

Account the personal... Harden wasn't even the best shooter on his team

You're right, he was not the best shooter on that team, as Ryan Reid had a higher TS%. We should have traded Beal's rights for reid.

Last year, Harden still had a .605 TS% and a WS/48 of .265 (leading the league w/ 16.4 WS) and 28.1 ppg. No Durant, no Westbrook. So you're saying put Beal on that team and…what are you saying?

Put beal on that team he will average 25, 6,7 atleast and he will have better defense

There is no reason to believe that's anywhere near the truth. Meanwhile, Beal's had one of the best distributing PG's in the NBA to play with.

[deneem4]

You're right, he was not the best shooter on that team, as Ryan Reid had a higher TS%. We should have traded Beal's rights for reid.

Last year, Harden still had a .605 TS% and a WS/48 of .265 (leading the league w/ 16.4 WS) and 28.1 ppg. No Durant, no Westbrook. So you're saying put Beal on that team and…what are you saying?

Put beal on that team he will average 25, 6,7 atleast and he will have better defense

There is no reason to believe that's anywhere near the truth. Meanwhile, Beal's had one of the best distributing PG's in the NBA to play with.

Increase tempo, shoot at will offense the rockets have, it's very possible...beal will excel in that system, he can be playoff beal for a whole season, maybe even better...
Beal can score, that rocket team is built to score, they're not a grind and grit team...
Like I said no one believed harden would be a mvp candidate after leaving the thunder, he was playing with a top 2 shooter and a top distributing and scoring pg in the nba...

[Ruzious]

Put beal on that team he will average 25, 6,7 atleast and he will have better defense

There is no reason to believe that's anywhere near the truth. Meanwhile, Beal's had one of the best distributing PG's in the NBA to play with.

Increase tempo, shoot at will offense the rockets have, it's very possible...beal will excel in that system, he can be playoff beal for a whole season, maybe even better...
Beal can score, that rocket team is built to score, they're not a grind and grit team...
Like I said no one believed harden would be a mvp candidate after leaving the thunder, he was playing with a top 2 shooter and a top distributing and scoring pg in the nba...

I don't agree even a little bit. Beal didn't even improve in this season's faster-paced Wiz offense built around 3 point shooting and pushing the pace. And I've always been a big believer in Harden. I screwed up on Steph Curry (calling him an ideal 3rd guard ), but I got it right on Harden, and his performance in OkC made it obvious he was headed for superstardom, imo.

[queridiculo]

Trade Beal for Harden and watch the Wizards make the playoffs while the Rockets race to the bottom.

[TheSecretWeapon]

Put beal on that team he will average 25, 6,7 atleast and he will have better defense

There is no reason to believe that's anywhere near the truth. Meanwhile, Beal's had one of the best distributing PG's in the NBA to play with.

Increase tempo, shoot at will offense the rockets have, it's very possible...beal will excel in that system, he can be playoff beal for a whole season, maybe even better...
Beal can score, that rocket team is built to score, they're not a grind and grit team...
Like I said no one believed harden would be a mvp candidate after leaving the thunder, he was playing with a top 2 shooter and a top distributing and scoring pg in the nba...

1. Playoffs Beal is almost as good as Harden was in his third season. (Playoffs Beal PPA: 139 in 2014, 134 in 2015. Harden's PPA in year three: 142.
2. Playoffs Beal is getting significantly overrated. He was good, but not great.
3. The playoffs are a study in small sample size theater -- especially for teams that get eliminated early. Beal has played eight times as many regular season minutes as playoffs minutes, and his performance has been consistently average.
4. Many people thought Harden would be a terrific player for Houston when he was traded there. (Psst: there were a few of us who thought trading Beal for Harden would have been a good move when the Wizards drafted him.)

Swap Beal for Harden, and the Wizards would be better while Houston would be worse. Harden is flat out better.

That's not to say Beal getting to that level is impossible. He's young, talented, and works hard. Hasn't happened yet, and it would take a HUGE jump for him to get there.

[deneem4]

There is no reason to believe that's anywhere near the truth. Meanwhile, Beal's had one of the best distributing PG's in the NBA to play with.

Increase tempo, shoot at will offense the rockets have, it's very possible...beal will excel in that system, he can be playoff beal for a whole season, maybe even better...
Beal can score, that rocket team is built to score, they're not a grind and grit team...
Like I said no one believed harden would be a mvp candidate after leaving the thunder, he was playing with a top 2 shooter and a top distributing and scoring pg in the nba...

I don't agree even a little bit. Beal didn't even improve in this season's faster-paced Wiz offense built around 3 point shooting and pushing the pace. And I've always been a big believer in Harden. I screwed up on Steph Curry (calling him an ideal 3rd guard ), but I got it right on Harden, and his performance in OkC made it obvious he was headed for superstardom, imo.

Beal started the season incredible it was only 5 games but until that Atlanta game he was averaging like 25,5,5, even had a big win against the Spurs, I think he injured his arm or wrist or something that Atlanta game then he came back and slowed down, I honestly think it was because of that injury, but beal came out this season showing what he's capable of, jus have to stay healthy,

[nate33]

Swap Beal for Harden, and the Wizards would be better while Houston would be worse. Harden is flat out better.

That's not to say Beal getting to that level is impossible. He's young, talented, and works hard. Hasn't happened yet, and it would take a HUGE jump for him to get there.

I'm comfortable in saying that it literally is impossible for Beal to get to Harden's level. I'd bet my wife and kids that Beal is never a runner up for MVP like Harden was last year.

[AFM]

Tell me more about the missus and the kids and I'll think about that offer.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Tell me more about the missus and the kids and I'll think about that offer.

You can lose both.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

These last three posts are classic Wiz Real GM stuff.

[TheSecretWeapon]

Swap Beal for Harden, and the Wizards would be better while Houston would be worse. Harden is flat out better.

That's not to say Beal getting to that level is impossible. He's young, talented, and works hard. Hasn't happened yet, and it would take a HUGE jump for him to get there.

I'm comfortable in saying that it literally is impossible for Beal to get to Harden's level. I'd bet my wife and kids that Beal is never a runner up for MVP like Harden was last year.

I'm a lot closer to this view than I am to the notion that Beal could get to Harden's level.

I just took a look at my statistical doppelganger machine, and the comps for Beal won't blow anyone's hair back: Mike Miller, Jason Richardson, Ray Allen (rookie year -- he was significantly better in his 3rd season), Michael Finley, Calbert Cheaney, Jrue Holiday, OJ Mayo, Dennis Scott, Hersey Hawkins, Morris Peterson, Eric Gordon.

Harden's season "most similar" to Beal last year was his 2nd season, and I have roughly 330 other player seasons that are more similar. It would take incredible improvement for Beal to get to Harden's level, and (as we've noted many times) Beal hasn't improved so far in his career -- not in terms of his on-court production.

[deneem4]

I'm in the minority that think beal can get to harden level but I stand by it....hopefully we can revisit this and see

[TheSecretWeapon]

Increase tempo, shoot at will offense the rockets have, it's very possible...beal will excel in that system, he can be playoff beal for a whole season, maybe even better...
Beal can score, that rocket team is built to score, they're not a grind and grit team...
Like I said no one believed harden would be a mvp candidate after leaving the thunder, he was playing with a top 2 shooter and a top distributing and scoring pg in the nba...

I don't agree even a little bit. Beal didn't even improve in this season's faster-paced Wiz offense built around 3 point shooting and pushing the pace. And I've always been a big believer in Harden. I screwed up on Steph Curry (calling him an ideal 3rd guard ), but I got it right on Harden, and his performance in OkC made it obvious he was headed for superstardom, imo.

Beal started the season incredible it was only 5 games but until that Atlanta game he was averaging like 25,5,5, even had a big win against the Spurs, I think he injured his arm or wrist or something that Atlanta game then he came back and slowed down, I honestly think it was because of that injury, but beal came out this season showing what he's capable of, jus have to stay healthy,

My guess is your primary evaluation criterion is points scored. Which is a lousy way of evaluating players.

In the first five games, Beal's performance was a mix of consecutive terrific games against San Antonio and Boston, a lousy game against Orlando, a good game against Milwaukee, and a mediocre game against the Knicks. Altogether, that was a good start to the season, but "incredible" is a major overstatement. He was awful in the sixth game of the year (against Atlanta), and then sat for three games. When he came back, he was pretty bad -- maybe because of the injury -- for the first four games of his return, but then was outstanding against Toronto. He followed that up with a bad game at Cleveland and a terrible performance vs. the Lakers, and then was sensational against Phoenix. His last three games before being sidelined by the leg problem were awful.