Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt. 10: Free Agency is in Free Flow

[MagicBagley18]

Based on the information below, several questions come to mind.
Why didn't Danny trade Kyrie at the deadline? Was he unaware? Did the teaming up happen after the deadline? Did he imagine the Celts going farther in the playoffs and Kyrie would change his mind?
How committed was Kyrie to the Celtics for the remainder of the season knowing he was on his way out?

Among that group was former Washington Wizards power forward Bobby Portis, who told The Athletic that he was quite aware who would not be his teammates on the Knicks as he negotiated with the team:

“I knew what was gonna happen in February,” he said. “We all knew that (Durant and Kyrie Irving would go to Brooklyn). Everybody knew that. I just don’t think the media knew that. Us basketball players, we all knew that.” (No, he won’t tell you how he knows. Even players don’t reveal their sources. “I’m not going to leak my source,” he said. “But we all know where they were going. I’m protecting mine, but we all knew where they were going.”)

I think he thought they could make a run and or he could trade for AD and convince kyrie to stay. I really wouldn’t put much Stock into what Bobby portis says now after the fact. It is easy to say “we all knew” and maybe some did but I don’t it creeped out to the Bobby portis’s Of the league.

Players talk and are plugged in but I don’t think it was that blatant and the chance for an AD KYRIE pairing was worth the risk- that pairing this year would have been the best duo in the league or at worst tied with kawhi and pg.

[zoyathedestroya]

https://hoopshype.com/2019/05/06/toronto-raptors-marc-gasol-serge-ibaka-playoffs-analysis/

Gasol and Ibaka barely played together in the regular season. 59 possessions. That's it.

In the playoffs (per CleaningtheGlass.com):
Gasol + Ibaka on the floor: 211 possessions, got outscored by 3.1 points per 100 possessions, putrid offense of 101.9 pts/100 poss.
Gasol, no Ibaka on the floor: 1242 possessions, outscored opponents by 5.9 pts per 100 poss, offensive rating of 111.7 pts/100 poss.
Ibaka, no Gasol on the floor: 755 possessions, outscored opponents by 7.7 pts per 100 poss, offensive rating of 112.3 pts/100 poss.

Not only did they use a single big way more often, they were way better when they did compared to putting two bigs at once.

And these two guys can both spread the floor. Kanter and Capela occupy the same space. Capela doesn't even attempt a shot outside of four feet. Bad big combo, considering their offensive limitations. You also run the risk of clogging the driving lanes for Hayward, Tatum, Brown, and Kemba. You essentially turn your best players into outside shooters with Kanter and Capela drawing guys into the paint. Neither Kanter and Capela draw double teams. So yeah, you're just clogging the paint with no clear advantage for perimeter shooters.

[MagicBagley18]

A Hayward mid season trade makes sense in terms of- let him build up some value and then cash in on it but also depends on the return. If he’s playing really well that means the team is probably having a pretty damn good season- it’s a fluid league and u never know but I just don’t see any blockbuster players shaking loose

[winsomme2]

https://hoopshype.com/2019/05/06/toronto-raptors-marc-gasol-serge-ibaka-playoffs-analysis/

Gasol and Ibaka barely played together in the regular season. 59 possessions. That's it.

In the playoffs (per CleaningtheGlass.com):
Gasol + Ibaka on the floor: 211 possessions, got outscored by 3.1 points per 100 possessions, putrid offense of 101.9 pts/100 poss.
Gasol, no Ibaka on the floor: 1242 possessions, outscored opponents by 5.9 pts per 100 poss, offensive rating of 111.7 pts/100 poss.
Ibaka, no Gasol on the floor: 755 possessions, outscored opponents by 7.7 pts per 100 poss, offensive rating of 112.3 pts/100 poss.

Not only did they use a single big way more often, they were way better when they did compared to putting two bigs at once.

And these two guys can both spread the floor. Kanter and Capela occupy the same space. Capela doesn't even attempt a shot outside of four feet. Bad big combo, considering their offensive limitations. You also run the risk of clogging the driving lanes for Hayward, Tatum, Brown, and Kemba. You essentially turn your best players into outside shooters with Kanter and Capela drawing guys into the paint. Neither Kanter and Capela draw double teams. So yeah, you're just clogging the paint with no clear advantage for perimeter shooters.

Ibaka and Gasol can defend the middle from the center position. Kanter cannot. Also the third player in the front court rotation was Siakam. Big upgrade defensively over Tatum.

If anything these stats should really make you fear the results of Kanter plus anybody currently on the roster. We will get walked all over without a defensive big. It will be ugly.

[sully00]

Don’t see Westbrook as a fit, not to mention that contract

I have thought it through over the last hour or so and I am all in on this idea. Kemba can play off the ball and Boston would be pushing the ball at a pace that would make Tommy proud.

To some extent you have to evaluate your opponents. To me the biggest obstacles in the East are MIL and PHI, their strength and their weakness is their size. Two ways to counteract that one try to match that size defensively difficult to do, the other is create a small ball match up that doesn't allow them to utilize their strength. Their back courts suck and they would have a nightmare dealing with Westbrook and Walker.

I question Westbrook's late game judgement but not his heart and effort. I think Brad could help and I think he would defer those 37 footers to Kemba anyhow that is what he does.

Everything has its price but if a couple of firsts and Hayward gets you Westbrook friggin sold.

Westbrook is a better player than Gordon Hayward, but I'm also convinced he can't play a winning brand of basketball. He's 30, his game is built on his athleticism, which is declining. He can't shoot from anywhere. His decision making is awful at times. He's ball-dominant which doesn't fit well with guys like Kemba and Tatum, who also need the basketball to be effective.

Pass.

I think your letting Westbrook's postseason define him a little too much. None of what your pointing out is apparent in his play over the 73 game season. Where he had a career high 11 RPG at the PG position and lead the league in APG. This ball dominant guard allowed Paul George to have a career year score 28 ppg, 5 more than in any season in his career. He gave up shots and focused on play making and rebounding.

The athleticism comment is BS you can say it over and over again it doesn't play out. Father Time runs down the Gordon Haywards and Al Horfords a lot faster than it does the Russell Westbrook's and Kevin Garnett's. Guys learn to adjust their offensive game what kills a guy is ability to move his feet on defense Westbrook has so much further to burn than most NBA players.

I think of Westbrook very much like Dwayne Wade. You would be buying into the years Wade won back to back championships and 4 straight Finals appearances. After 33-34 there was certainly a drop off but people exaggerate how much athleticism is a part of Westbrook's game it is really physical strength not just hops and speed.

If you can play Walker and Westbrook together (this is the biggest question I have can I get 20+ ppg out of these two in the same backcourt) then this just comes down to price. I think it is just ridiculous to have a discussion about whether Russell Westbrook's age and athleticism is an issue when we just watched Gordon Hayward's season.

This just seems easy, if you can get Westbrook for a controlled cost (Hayward and a couple of picks) you do it. The Lakers and Clippers just mortgaged their franchises to get a top 10 player the Heat just sold out for Jimmy Butler who isn't really a top 10 guy. Boston was able to salvage a disastrous off season by scooping up a top 15-20 player in Walker if you pair him with Westbrook your actually in a better place then you were last year.

[zoyathedestroya]

https://hoopshype.com/2019/05/06/toronto-raptors-marc-gasol-serge-ibaka-playoffs-analysis/

Gasol and Ibaka barely played together in the regular season. 59 possessions. That's it.

In the playoffs (per CleaningtheGlass.com):
Gasol + Ibaka on the floor: 211 possessions, got outscored by 3.1 points per 100 possessions, putrid offense of 101.9 pts/100 poss.
Gasol, no Ibaka on the floor: 1242 possessions, outscored opponents by 5.9 pts per 100 poss, offensive rating of 111.7 pts/100 poss.
Ibaka, no Gasol on the floor: 755 possessions, outscored opponents by 7.7 pts per 100 poss, offensive rating of 112.3 pts/100 poss.

Not only did they use a single big way more often, they were way better when they did compared to putting two bigs at once.

And these two guys can both spread the floor. Kanter and Capela occupy the same space. Capela doesn't even attempt a shot outside of four feet. Bad big combo, considering their offensive limitations. You also run the risk of clogging the driving lanes for Hayward, Tatum, Brown, and Kemba. You essentially turn your best players into outside shooters with Kanter and Capela drawing guys into the paint. Neither Kanter and Capela draw double teams. So yeah, you're just clogging the paint with no clear advantage for perimeter shooters.

Ibaka and Gasol can defend the middle from the center position. Kanter cannot. Also the third player in the front court rotation was Siakam. Big upgrade defensively over Tatum.

If anything these stats should really make you fear the results of Kanter plus anybody currently on the roster. We will get walked all over without a defensive big. It will be ugly.

Those stats focus on offense. That offense suffers when Gasol and Ibaka are on the floor together. Their defense were the same level whether they had two bigs or one big.

You want to upgrade our frontcourt defense at the expense of our offense? Kanter is a bad defender. No way around it. He shouldn't be starting.

Ideally, you want a more seasoned Grant Williams as our four (or any bigger/stronger four compared to Hayward/Tatum) paired with a Capela-type. With Kanter as a backup center to hide his defensive deficiencies.

Kanter + Capela on the floor together is disaster waiting to happen.

[ThunderBolt]

Would Boston have any interest in Jerami Grant? He's owed $9.3 million this year and has a player option. I would imagine he'll opt out of it. Although he's still young I think the concern is that OKC may not want to give him a big pay day if they are in rebuild mode. Just curious if Boston would want him for depth at pf position.

[celticgreenie]

Would Boston have any interest in Jerami Grant? He's owed $9.3 million this year and has a player option. I would imagine he'll opt out of it. Although he's still young I think the concern is that OKC may not want to give him a big pay day if they are in rebuild mode. Just curious if Boston would want him for depth at pf position.

Poor man siakim? I would be interested as Tatum and g. Williams at pf is nice but don't want Tatum playing too much at that position.

[MagicBagley18]

I keep seeing Westbrook allowed PG to have an mvp caliber year and KD won the mvp with him and that’s all fact but the problem with Westbrook isn’t if he can let other have success around him- he’s proven he can.

The problem with Westbrook is all those teams and the most recently the version last year with PG were better when he took a backseat but what ultimately happens is he can’t do it for the whole season or playoff series. His alpha or desire to be the alpha takes over and he resorts back to taking ill advised shots and doing it himself.

The thunder were better last year when it was PG’S team and Russ was 2nd but in the second half of the year russell resorted back to old ways and the team fell by the waysiDe. it’s just who he is and in his dna. He can’t turn it off for the long haul and if he does that to PG and even at time to KD- he most def will to kemba

[zoyathedestroya]

Would Boston have any interest in Jerami Grant? He's owed $9.3 million this year and has a player option. I would imagine he'll opt out of it. Although he's still young I think the concern is that OKC may not want to give him a big pay day if they are in rebuild mode. Just curious if Boston would want him for depth at pf position.

Yes, I would. At what cost? Brown, Smart, Tatum, Hayward, and Kemba are obviously off the table for Jerami.

[brackdan70]

Would Boston have any interest in Jerami Grant? He's owed $9.3 million this year and has a player option. I would imagine he'll opt out of it. Although he's still young I think the concern is that OKC may not want to give him a big pay day if they are in rebuild mode. Just curious if Boston would want him for depth at pf position.

If the price is right sure. He showed some growth last year and is a good player.
I don’t think Boston would pay much though.

[winsomme2]

Gasol and Ibaka barely played together in the regular season. 59 possessions. That's it.

In the playoffs (per CleaningtheGlass.com):
Gasol + Ibaka on the floor: 211 possessions, got outscored by 3.1 points per 100 possessions, putrid offense of 101.9 pts/100 poss.
Gasol, no Ibaka on the floor: 1242 possessions, outscored opponents by 5.9 pts per 100 poss, offensive rating of 111.7 pts/100 poss.
Ibaka, no Gasol on the floor: 755 possessions, outscored opponents by 7.7 pts per 100 poss, offensive rating of 112.3 pts/100 poss.

Not only did they use a single big way more often, they were way better when they did compared to putting two bigs at once.

And these two guys can both spread the floor. Kanter and Capela occupy the same space. Capela doesn't even attempt a shot outside of four feet. Bad big combo, considering their offensive limitations. You also run the risk of clogging the driving lanes for Hayward, Tatum, Brown, and Kemba. You essentially turn your best players into outside shooters with Kanter and Capela drawing guys into the paint. Neither Kanter and Capela draw double teams. So yeah, you're just clogging the paint with no clear advantage for perimeter shooters.

Ibaka and Gasol can defend the middle from the center position. Kanter cannot. Also the third player in the front court rotation was Siakam. Big upgrade defensively over Tatum.

If anything these stats should really make you fear the results of Kanter plus anybody currently on the roster. We will get walked all over without a defensive big. It will be ugly.

Those stats focus on offense. That offense suffers when Gasol and Ibaka are on the floor together. Their defense were the same level whether they had two bigs or one big.

You want to upgrade our frontcourt defense at the expense of our offense? Kanter is a bad defender. No way around it. He shouldn't be starting.

Ideally, you want a more seasoned Grant Williams as our four (or any bigger/stronger four compared to Hayward/Tatum) paired with a Capela-type. With Kanter as a backup center to hide his defensive deficiencies.

Kanter + Capela on the floor together is disaster waiting to happen.

Well, the key is Capela, not Kanter.

Capela frees you up to do all sorts of combinations based on who you're playing.

I'm guessing those stats included the Finals, but specifically in the PHI and MIL series, TOR needed to be able to shut down the middle and that Gasol/Ibaka lineup gave them that. That combo would be bad against GS.

Listen, I'm not here to say that I want Capela/Kanter. What I want is Capela. Then from there Stevens at least has a chance to defend the paint with different combos. If we are getting killed on the boards. He can put out Capela and Kanter. They are both good rebounders. If you can play Horford/Baynes, you can play Capela/Kanter.

You know what combo will really be a disaster? Kanter/Tatum

Danny must know that that starting front court is a complete embarrassment.

[24istheLAW]

Would Boston have any interest in Jerami Grant? He's owed $9.3 million this year and has a player option. I would imagine he'll opt out of it. Although he's still young I think the concern is that OKC may not want to give him a big pay day if they are in rebuild mode. Just curious if Boston would want him for depth at pf position.

Fine player, but I see him as more of a SF who can defend bigger and smaller, rather than a true big defensively. Which is what Boston really needs.

[Scarletfire81]

Is Hayward for Westbrook a serious trade discussion? I have doubts but Westbrook is a much better player than Hayward. The contract is worse though.

[gocelts]

A Hayward mid season trade makes sense in terms of- let him build up some value and then cash in on it but also depends on the return. If he’s playing really well that means the team is probably having a pretty damn good season- it’s a fluid league and u never know but I just don’t see any blockbuster players shaking loose

Its tough trading Hayward mid season. If he's healthy and playing well, everyone will want to just keep him. If not, no one is going to want him.

[ThunderBolt]

Would Boston have any interest in Jerami Grant? He's owed $9.3 million this year and has a player option. I would imagine he'll opt out of it. Although he's still young I think the concern is that OKC may not want to give him a big pay day if they are in rebuild mode. Just curious if Boston would want him for depth at pf position.

Yes, I would. At what cost? Brown, Smart, Tatum, Hayward, and Kemba are obviously off the table for Jerami.

I think most of us think he has the value of a frp. Obviously both teams have picks to compensate the other side if they want to make the trade larger than just Grant for FRP and equal salary, whomever that might be.

[RickyDizzle]

With the Kemba trade going official was the draft compensation ever reported? Nba transaction log shows draft considerations going both ways but no concrete info. Swap of 2nds or something?

[ThunderBolt]

Would Boston have any interest in Jerami Grant? He's owed $9.3 million this year and has a player option. I would imagine he'll opt out of it. Although he's still young I think the concern is that OKC may not want to give him a big pay day if they are in rebuild mode. Just curious if Boston would want him for depth at pf position.

Fine player, but I see him as more of a SF who can defend bigger and smaller, rather than a true big defensively. Which is what Boston really needs.

He doesn't really have a great fit at any postition but he struggles defending out on the wing. He's just not quick enough. He does better at the PF position but old school bruiser guys like Griffen and Favors give him problems.

[MagicBagley18]

Is Hayward for Westbrook a serious trade discussion? I have doubts but Westbrook is a much better player than Hayward. The contract is worse though.

No. Just connecting dots and trying to follow smoke and see if it’s something ainge would do.

[zoyathedestroya]

Ibaka and Gasol can defend the middle from the center position. Kanter cannot. Also the third player in the front court rotation was Siakam. Big upgrade defensively over Tatum.

If anything these stats should really make you fear the results of Kanter plus anybody currently on the roster. We will get walked all over without a defensive big. It will be ugly.

Those stats focus on offense. That offense suffers when Gasol and Ibaka are on the floor together. Their defense were the same level whether they had two bigs or one big.

You want to upgrade our frontcourt defense at the expense of our offense? Kanter is a bad defender. No way around it. He shouldn't be starting.

Ideally, you want a more seasoned Grant Williams as our four (or any bigger/stronger four compared to Hayward/Tatum) paired with a Capela-type. With Kanter as a backup center to hide his defensive deficiencies.

Kanter + Capela on the floor together is disaster waiting to happen.

Well, the key is Capela, not Kanter.

Capela frees you up to do all sorts of combinations based on who you're playing.

I'm guessing those stats included the Finals, but specifically in the PHI and MIL series, TOR needed to be able to shut down the middle and that Gasol/Ibaka lineup gave them that. That combo would be bad against GS.

Listen, I'm not here to say that I want Capela/Kanter. What I want is Capela. Then from there Stevens at least has a chance to defend the paint with different combos. If we are getting killed on the boards. He can put out Capela and Kanter. They are both good rebounders.

You know what combo will really be a disaster? Kanter/Tatum

Danny must know that that starting front court is a complete embarrassment.

Why would Capela still be available? Rockets would've moved him if they got Butler. They could still move him if they go after Westbrook but that's even more complicated due to Russ's higher salary. The tweet from that questionable source only said Celtics still have interest in Capela. How vague can that get?

Never wanted Kanter. Seems like a stopgap, best we can get atm with the resources available. He shouldn't start regardless but he probably will due to lack of options. But I imagine we'll at least be very good on offense. Just put up 130 a game lol.

What's most likely to happen is we roll into the season with what we've got, see where we're at midseason and make moves from there. We can't do much as of the moment. No salaries to match. Plus more players will be available for trade by December/January.