Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII

[tontoz]

I have seen some pretty horrible trades proposed here and generally don't comment on them. But this Knicks trade is definitely the worst I have ever seen. Wow

[gambitx777]

I can't do math but at least I can English..... Sometimes.... Yeah I expect wall to not be 100% of what he was,but come back as abetter basketball player and a team mate. From all we have seen he understands he's not going to be the guy, he needs to play harder and smarter and he needs to care. I think he will be a better player but not be as good as a player for the player he use to be. If that makes sense.

lmao! No arguing with that guy. I really don't think Wall's contract will be a liability once he starts playing again. Yes he will be overpaid but people forget how good he is when healthy. Wall basically singlehandedly made this team semi-relevant for 4-5 years.

I cant tell if Math is a thing in Washington or not... U said 3 more years after this one... which = to 4


When trading Wall.. Teams arnt going to care so much about being insured for the 2019 season....They care about paying him for the rest of the years...the 3 years 160 or so million dollars he is owed.


4 years left under contract. He will be 33 during the last year of his contract. I dont expect him to come back better then ever...



With that said...u guys already declined interest in a trade for pure salary cap to get him off the books. So..All good.

Fwiw, 3 more years after this one means... 3 more years after this one. 3 more years after this one does not mean 4 more years. That's really not a hard concept to follow.

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[tontoz]

Let's not forget that Wall was playing hurt a lot over the years. His drives to the basket were frequently reckless. He hit the floor all the time.

This injury might wake him up to his basketball mortality. He might play more under control, which he needs to do to maximize his effectiveness anyway.

If he comes back and focuses on playmaking rather than headstrong drives and midrange jumpers he could be at least as good as he was, if not better.

[gambitx777]

There is no reason he can't come back playing effort defence, 10-15 points, 10+ assisting and low turn overs a night.

Let's not forget that Wall was playing hurt a lot over the years. His drives to the basket were frequently reckless. He hit the floor all the time.

This injury might wake him up to his basketball mortality. He might play more under control, which he needs to do to maximize his effectiveness anyway.

If he comes back and focuses on playmaking rather than headstrong drives and midrange jumpers he could be at least as good as he was, if not better.

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[Knicksfan20]

^^^ The point is that any team trading for Wall saves an immense amount of cash this year. Also, sure Wall making 40M is far from ideal, but Id rather have Wall, a MLE player, and a vet min player for 50M instead of Randle, Portis, and Morris for 50M.

So saving your powder isnt really working out all that well...

Again, we have zero interest in paying to move Wall. He looks healthy & trim while seemingly more mature and self aware about where he is in his career. Its worth the gamble for us to see if he returns to form.

In about 8 months a couple things will happen. Wall will have come back and proven to be healthy, Klay Thompson will be 30 and have 4/160M left on his deal after not playing at all this year, Tobias Harris will have 4/150M left as a "good" complimentary piece, and the worst FA class this decade will have freshly minted contracts.
Once AD resigns with LAL, the cream of the crop will consist of a 35 y/o Millsap, a 31 y/o Derozan & Ibaka, and a 32 y/o Gallo.

Lets have this convo in August...

U dont have to have those players since they are expiring contracts...thats the point of this trade offer.

And your comparison is like buying something that is on sale that you dont need. Sure the Car is 10% off..But its still a 10000 dollar car and u didnt check the car fax.

[Knicksfan20]

No it isn't. Has 3 more years on his contract after this one . His contract is covered by insurance this year. Any trade made was money being spent anyway.you don't count this year in a trade only what's left unless it's a one year deal. Sure we wouldn't mind getting that money off the books early, but we aren't paying to do it not. And we arnt giving away that much! There is a good chance, wall will be tradable next year at much Let of a cost than you suggested or at a small gain. And if he doesn't ! So what. The team has prepared to eat his money and are prepared to rebuild with him as dead cap if needed. No need to waste young talent in this trade.

The season just started... Hes under contract for 4 years...not 3 after this 1...hes under contract for 4 years. No matter how u change the wording...hes under contract for 4 years. And the next 3 years he will be getting paid . Sure this year is insured...But next year for 42 million isnt...THe following year for 44 million isnt...and his final year of his contract getting paid 47.4 million dollars...


Thats alot of money to play 1 player who is breaking down and might not ever be able to play a full/half season again..


You dont like the trade offer...lets move on.. U didnt want to counter... u guys all love John Wall i get it. But the Knicks are probably the only team in the league who can make a trade to help u get cap relief this summer and get out of that contract. You dont want the trade..cool..keep it movin.

[pcbothwel]

^^^ The point is that any team trading for Wall saves an immense amount of cash this year. Also, sure Wall making 40M is far from ideal, but Id rather have Wall, a MLE player, and a vet min player for 50M instead of Randle, Portis, and Morris for 50M.

So saving your powder isnt really working out all that well...

Again, we have zero interest in paying to move Wall. He looks healthy & trim while seemingly more mature and self aware about where he is in his career. Its worth the gamble for us to see if he returns to form.

In about 8 months a couple things will happen. Wall will have come back and proven to be healthy, Klay Thompson will be 30 and have 4/160M left on his deal after not playing at all this year, Tobias Harris will have 4/150M left as a "good" complimentary piece, and the worst FA class this decade will have freshly minted contracts.
Once AD resigns with LAL, the cream of the crop will consist of a 35 y/o Millsap, a 31 y/o Derozan & Ibaka, and a 32 y/o Gallo.

Lets have this convo in August...

U dont have to have those players since they are expiring contracts...thats the point of this trade offer.

And your comparison is like buying something that is on sale that you dont need. Sure the Car is 10% off..But its still a 10000 dollar car and u didnt check the car fax.

Youre missing the point... I know they are expiring, but what good is cap space if you have no assets to put around the potential FA you sign? You end up missing out on big FA's and sign the guys like Randle, Portis, and Morris.

Most of us have Faith in Wall returning to form. Here are some facts:
1) Wall is not just fast, he's huge. He could lose a step and still have size/strength advantage over 90% of the starting PG's.
2) Wall had a PARTIAL tear of his Achilles, not a full tear
3) Wall will be surrounded by the most talented/youthful supporting cast of his career
- Beal is an All-NBA player at 26.
- Rui and Brown are two of the youngest starters in the league (20 & 21) and already positive players
- Bryant & Wagner are both 22 and giving us 48 minutes a night of 27 / 14.5 / 3.2 / 2.5 on over 20% usage rate, TS of 65%, and average BPM of 2.0 from the Center position.
- Those 4 players are also all under contract for the next 3 years for 20M total...

4) As tontoz said above, Wall has spent most of the last 3-4 years either hurt or recovering. Not only has his Achilles had over a year to heal, but so has his knees. He was 20k minutes into his NBA career before the age of 28...
Stepping away both mentally and physically, while also maturing and spending time with his new born could be a blessing for him as he begins a nice 3-4 year run finishing out his prime into his early 30's.

Add in Wall, Nico Mannion, and a solid backup wing with our MLE this summer... and we're a 5/6 seed with one of the youngest rosters in the league, and below the tax.

[payitforward]

Maybe we are, maybe we aren't one or another "seed." Who cares? It's just not an attractive trade. Period. I can't imagine any GM wanting to do this trade.

[tontoz]

This NY kid still arguing about this? Probably needs a checkup from the neck up.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Try and look at it from the Wizards' perspective.

He's totally looking at it from the Wizards perspective. That's pretty close to what the Knicks are facing right now and he (wisely) wants no part of watching that team so he's trying to imagine scenarios where that future can be pawned off elsewhere.

[Knicksfan20]

^^^ The point is that any team trading for Wall saves an immense amount of cash this year. Also, sure Wall making 40M is far from ideal, but Id rather have Wall, a MLE player, and a vet min player for 50M instead of Randle, Portis, and Morris for 50M.

So saving your powder isnt really working out all that well...

Again, we have zero interest in paying to move Wall. He looks healthy & trim while seemingly more mature and self aware about where he is in his career. Its worth the gamble for us to see if he returns to form.

In about 8 months a couple things will happen. Wall will have come back and proven to be healthy, Klay Thompson will be 30 and have 4/160M left on his deal after not playing at all this year, Tobias Harris will have 4/150M left as a "good" complimentary piece, and the worst FA class this decade will have freshly minted contracts.
Once AD resigns with LAL, the cream of the crop will consist of a 35 y/o Millsap, a 31 y/o Derozan & Ibaka, and a 32 y/o Gallo.

Lets have this convo in August...

U dont have to have those players since they are expiring contracts...thats the point of this trade offer.

And your comparison is like buying something that is on sale that you dont need. Sure the Car is 10% off..But its still a 10000 dollar car and u didnt check the car fax.

Youre missing the point... I know they are expiring, but what good is cap space if you have no assets to put around the potential FA you sign? You end up missing out on big FA's and sign the guys like Randle, Portis, and Morris.

Most of us have Faith in Wall returning to form. Here are some facts:
1) Wall is not just fast, he's huge. He could lose a step and still have size/strength advantage over 90% of the starting PG's.
2) Wall had a PARTIAL tear of his Achilles, not a full tear
3) Wall will be surrounded by the most talented/youthful supporting cast of his career
- Beal is an All-NBA player at 26.
- Rui and Brown are two of the youngest starters in the league (20 & 21) and already positive players
- Bryant & Wagner are both 22 and giving us 48 minutes a night of 27 / 14.5 / 3.2 / 2.5 on over 20% usage rate, TS of 65%, and average BPM of 2.0 from the Center position.
- Those 4 players are also all under contract for the next 3 years for 20M total...

4) As tontoz said above, Wall has spent most of the last 3-4 years either hurt or recovering. Not only has his Achilles had over a year to heal, but so has his knees. He was 20k minutes into his NBA career before the age of 28...
Stepping away both mentally and physically, while also maturing and spending time with his new born could be a blessing for him as he begins a nice 3-4 year run finishing out his prime into his early 30's.

Add in Wall, Nico Mannion, and a solid backup wing with our MLE this summer... and we're a 5/6 seed with one of the youngest rosters in the league, and below the tax.

not even going to read this. Its all pointless. You dont need to sign somebody right after clearing cap space...I made the offer...Yes it was a 1 sided offer..u could choose to counter or not... No counters seen...Moving on. Bye

[The Consiglieri]

So we're gonna lose 4 legitimate assets to get cap space this summer to sign who and get out of one contract????

Even if Wall never came back (which he will and will be just fine), no human on earth would never ever do this deal.

A trade has to start somewhere. And if u trying to trade Wall...its going to take at least 3 solid assets to move him. Its the worst contract in the entire league.

Nobody is trying to trade Wall. It's beyond Idiotic. In winter 2018-2019 and now heading through 2019-2020 we are at rock bottom. Whether Wall's on the roster or not is irrelevant. This team would suck with him as it did last year pre-injury, and would suck without him as it did last year and this post-injury. We're eating the ugly contract just like we did the Mahinmi debacle. We're not dumping it so we can dig an extra 150,000 feet below the crater we're already in at the bottom of the ocean. What sense is there in that. As another poster mentioned, the contract's insured, so the pain on that end is essentially gone, so instead, the only issue is, can dumping the contract help in the long term, or hurt?

The answer is easy. It would hurt. So we eat it. We aren't contending in '20, we aren't contending in '21, we'll hope to contend in '22 and beyond. No quick fix stupidity is likely, we dumped our horrific GM, and our owner has been known to exhibit patient w/rebuilds (see Caps 2003-2008, and Boulez 2009-Present) and too much patience w/GM's, so a quick trigger finger isn't going to be a problem.

Having the worst contract in the NBA would matter if we were trying to contend. We aren't. We're in the process of slowly getting up from rock bottom (2019 until Earnie's firing), and from here we'll slowly rebuild, and by the time we'll be ready to contend (for the playoffs) again (probably '21-'22) we'll be running out the end of that contract and it won't be so bad anymore, and it won't have been nearly so bad since we were never going to contend '19-'21 anyway.

[The Consiglieri]

No it isn't. Has 3 more years on his contract after this one . His contract is covered by insurance this year. Any trade made was money being spent anyway.you don't count this year in a trade only what's left unless it's a one year deal. Sure we wouldn't mind getting that money off the books early, but we aren't paying to do it not. And we arnt giving away that much! There is a good chance, wall will be tradable next year at much Let of a cost than you suggested or at a small gain. And if he doesn't ! So what. The team has prepared to eat his money and are prepared to rebuild with him as dead cap if needed. No need to waste young talent in this trade.

iTs tHe wOrST ContRAcT iN tHE EnTirE LeaGUe.
He has three years left on the deal. The wall we've had for years now has been mostly healthy wall with 50-60% effort. All indications look like wall has made some life style changes and we are likely to get 85-100% percent effort wall at 80-85 percent health . Which is better than what we have had. Hes over paid but not terribly and as stated it's 3 years, by the time we have to start paying the young guys he's going to be in the last year of his deal and probably tradable for no cost if not a small gain well before then if he's playing well. No reason to pay to get rid of him now.

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4 years. Hes under contract for 4 more years. He gunna be 33 after that. Hes about to be 30 and you think his health and condition will improve?

Yes...It really is the worst contract in the league..It was last year as well.

Dont like the trade offer? Ignore me or make a counter. You act like the Wizards havnt been dying to get out of his contract.

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You're not helping man, lol. We don't have to paint fantasy's of Wall getting back to a valued asset (almost zero chance, period), or even Wall just becoming a bad contract to show why his offer is horse ----. We aren't the Knicks. We are a team that did rock bottom pretty well these past six months, we didn't pull a Mahinmi again, we just gave Wall an extension that blew up in our face. We have to eat it now. The injury was catastrophic, we aren't trading him this year or next, the earliest we could trade him w/o sabotaging the rebuild would be in the winter of '21-'22 and even thats unlikely. Nobody will want to go anywhere near that contract, that's the one thing the Knick fan is right about. Everything else is absurd.

We eat the horrible contract, as we are, we hope we can get something out of him in '21 and beyond (a pipe dream to me, but a borderline startable asset might be possible, just not a tradable one w/that contract), and we continue the rebuild that's actually aided by the contract (a contract that bad is going to artificially push our win totals down in '20 and '21 and help us out w/draft slotting the next two years as a result hopefully adding another two highly valuable pieces (one can pray). But Wall and any ideas or perspectives w/regards to trading his deal are insane to me. IT ISNT HAPPENING. His contract isn't tradable w/o sabotaging everything.

[nate33]

No it isn't. Has 3 more years on his contract after this one . His contract is covered by insurance this year. Any trade made was money being spent anyway.you don't count this year in a trade only what's left unless it's a one year deal. Sure we wouldn't mind getting that money off the books early, but we aren't paying to do it not. And we arnt giving away that much! There is a good chance, wall will be tradable next year at much Let of a cost than you suggested or at a small gain. And if he doesn't ! So what. The team has prepared to eat his money and are prepared to rebuild with him as dead cap if needed. No need to waste young talent in this trade.

4 years. Hes under contract for 4 more years. He gunna be 33 after that. Hes about to be 30 and you think his health and condition will improve?

Yes...It really is the worst contract in the league..It was last year as well.

Dont like the trade offer? Ignore me or make a counter. You act like the Wizards havnt been dying to get out of his contract.

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You're not helping man, lol. We don't have to paint fantasy's of Wall getting back to a valued asset (almost zero chance, period), or even Wall just becoming a bad contract to show why his offer is horse ----. We aren't the Knicks. We are a team that did rock bottom pretty well these past six months, we didn't pull a Mahinmi again, we just gave Wall an extension that blew up in our face. We have to eat it now. The injury was catastrophic, we aren't trading him this year or next, the earliest we could trade him w/o sabotaging the rebuild would be in the winter of '21-'22 and even thats unlikely. Nobody will want to go anywhere near that contract, that's the one thing the Knick fan is right about. Everything else is absurd.

We eat the horrible contract, as we are, we hope we can get something out of him in '21 and beyond (a pipe dream to me, but a borderline startable asset might be possible, just not a tradable one w/that contract), and we continue the rebuild that's actually aided by the contract (a contract that bad is going to artificially push our win totals down in '20 and '21 and help us out w/draft slotting the next two years as a result hopefully adding another two highly valuable pieces (one can pray). But Wall and any ideas or perspectives w/regards to trading his deal are insane to me. IT ISNT HAPPENING. His contract isn't tradable w/o sabotaging everything.

I don't think what gambix777 said was fantasy.

While I agree that the odds are that we are stuck with Wall for the full duration of his contract, I think there is a possibility that he is movable before then. I think his situation will turn out much like Gordon Hayward. When he comes back in Game 42 this season, he will be a decent useful player, but wildly overpaid and still unmovable. But next year, he'll grow more confident in his Achilles and get his basketball rhythm back and start looking like something pretty close to his former self. He won't have positive value, but he might be movable if there's a desperate "win now" team who has filler contracts and no other way to improve themselves. There will be a window at the Trade Deadline in the 2020-21 season where he might be movable for expirings plus maybe on small, longer bad contract. Or if we really want to move him so that we're a player in 2021 free agency, we could conceivably attach a single protected future 1st to him and unload him.

I don't know if we're going to want to move him at the time. It'll depend on a lot of factors. But the possibility of moving him is definitely greater than zero.

[gambitx777]

Like if the heat came to us and said right now, dragic Johnson and waiters for wall. You think about it. But do we as wiz fans do it. It gets you out of that money sure but you have to work buy outs with Johnson and waiters unless you let them sit at home, they arnt good locker room guys and they don't have trade value. Dragic might have value at the deadline but not much. So at this point you almost make the case for keeping him.

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[100proof]

Just wondering, what are the organizations thoughts on Bryant.

Is he untouchable? Tradeable? if so what would be looked for in return?

[nate33]

Just wondering, what are the organizations thoughts on Bryant.

Is he untouchable? Tradeable? if so what would be looked for in return?

I believe the plan was for Bryant to become the center of the future. He's already a very gifted offensive player and he's a hard worker with great energy. (So far the defensive instincts have eluded him, but he's still young.) But with the emergence of Mo Wagner, I'm guessing that Bryant is no longer quite so untouchable. If they both pan out toward the higher end of expectations, I don't think the Wizards can afford to keep them both over the long term, which would make one available in a trade at some point.

At the current time, I sincerely doubt either Bryant or Wagner is on the market. Both are clearly on the upswing and will likely to be more valuable a year from now than they are at the moment. The Wizards aren't trying to win this season so they can afford to wait for their value to increase before shopping one. (And by waiting, they'll also get more clarity on which one is likely to pan out to be the better player.)

So from the Wizards perspective, trading one now would only make sense if they were valued in the trade toward the very high end of future expectations. I might trade Bryant for that Memphis pick, for example, but I doubt Boston would give up that much.

Another issue is the Wizards time horizon. They're in a retooling year, but with Wall and Beal already in their prime, the Wizards aren't really interested in a long rebuild plan. Bryant is a legit starter now, and might be a good one in a year or two. Trading him for a pick and then grooming that pick could take 4 years.

[100proof]

Just wondering, what are the organizations thoughts on Bryant.

Is he untouchable? Tradeable? if so what would be looked for in return?

I believe the plan was for Bryant to become the center of the future. He's already a very gifted offensive player and he's a hard worker with great energy. (So far the defensive instincts have eluded him, but he's still young.) But with the emergence of Mo Wagner, I'm guessing that Bryant is no longer quite so untouchable. If they both pan out toward the higher end of expectations, I don't think the Wizards can afford to keep them both over the long term, which would make one available in a trade at some point.

At the current time, I sincerely doubt either Bryant or Wagner is on the market. Both are clearly on the upswing and will likely to be more valuable a year from now than they are at the moment. The Wizards aren't trying to win this season so they can afford to wait for their value to increase before shopping one. (And by waiting, they'll also get more clarity on which one is likely to pan out to be the better player.)

So from the Wizards perspective, trading one now would only make sense if they were valued in the trade toward the very high end of future expectations. I might trade Bryant for that Memphis pick, for example, but I doubt Boston would give up that much.

Interesting. I am personally a big Bryant Fan, reminds me of Marcus Smart with the heart. I love that type of player.

Do you think something like Langford and a pick this year might get a deal done? I dont think there is any way danny trades away the Memphis pick, but Langford plus either Bucks or Bostons pick could be had I think.

[Ruzious]

Just wondering, what are the organizations thoughts on Bryant.

Is he untouchable? Tradeable? if so what would be looked for in return?

I believe the plan was for Bryant to become the center of the future. He's already a very gifted offensive player and he's a hard worker with great energy. (So far the defensive instincts have eluded him, but he's still young.) But with the emergence of Mo Wagner, I'm guessing that Bryant is no longer quite so untouchable. If they both pan out toward the higher end of expectations, I don't think the Wizards can afford to keep them both over the long term, which would make one available in a trade at some point.

At the current time, I sincerely doubt either Bryant or Wagner is on the market. Both are clearly on the upswing and will likely to be more valuable a year from now than they are at the moment. The Wizards aren't trying to win this season so they can afford to wait for their value to increase before shopping one. (And by waiting, they'll also get more clarity on which one is likely to pan out to be the better player.)

So from the Wizards perspective, trading one now would only make sense if they were valued in the trade toward the very high end of future expectations. I might trade Bryant for that Memphis pick, for example, but I doubt Boston would give up that much.

Interesting. I am personally a big Bryant Fan, reminds me of Marcus Smart with the heart. I love that type of player.

Do you think something like Langford and a pick this year might get a deal done? I dont think there is any way danny trades away the Memphis pick, but Langford plus either Bucks or Bostons pick could be had I think.

Nope. Before you posted that, I was going to say Langford plus the Memphis pick won't get it done - unless Langford really turns things on to the point that the Celtics wouldn't be willing to trade him. So, that's my view - there's not a good match. The Wiz have enough roster depth that I don't see them being enthusiastic about trading for late 1st rounders.

[nate33]

Interesting. I am personally a big Bryant Fan, reminds me of Marcus Smart with the heart. I love that type of player.

Do you think something like Langford and a pick this year might get a deal done? I dont think there is any way danny trades away the Memphis pick, but Langford plus either Bucks or Bostons pick could be had I think.

The Wizards don't have any use for Langford. First of all, there's some reason to believe he's a bust. And secondly, we have Bradley Beal.

Honestly, I just don't see a workable deal at the moment. It's always hard to trade young players because the team trading him values him with an optimistic projection, and the team receiving him is typically more pessimistic. It's hard to agree on value.