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loserX wrote:Joao Saraiva wrote:Times they lead both teams in GmSC in the finals:
Jordan 5
LeBron 6
So LeBron was actually the best player on the court in the finals more times than Michael Jordan.
Fun list, but this one surprised me. Who was the player who out GmSC-ed Jordan in the year it wasn't him?
MJ beat past their prime GOATs in an injured Bird, a Worthy-injured Lakers and a worn out Pistons. He then was pushed by Ewing's Knicks who had one quality player.FlatearthZorro wrote:D.Brasco wrote:Michael Jordan lost more than he won as well. Losing in the first round or not making the playoffs is not better than losing in the finals.
Jordan played against GOAT type competition, who are the GOATs LBJ faced in their prime sans the Celtics and Spurs(who actually weren't in their prime, both teams past their actual prime).
The Bulls always had the best chance. There was no player movement then.gp2015 wrote:Spanish_Laker wrote:MJ could have never done what LeBron did: win 3 championships in 3 different teams and 2 different conferences. 90s was a
weak era and he all a stacked team, not so much impressive.
I wonder how many more championships MJ would have won if he too quit his team and just joined whoever had the best chance of winning a championship with.
Christ was not on that team, but are you arguing the Bulls weren't stacked?OverAndOut wrote:Dino353 wrote:I could only imagine how many rings LeBron would win being coached by Phil Jackson and having arguably the best all-around player in NBA history in Scottie Pippen to go with Dennis Rodman who is arguably the best defensive player ever.
Anyone with all their brain cells can see that LeBron is superior. LeBron is an absolute cheat code, Shaq like power,with Vince Carter like leaping ability,no one can pass like LeBron in the history of the NBA this guy is rifling 20-25 mph passes end to end and on kick-outs and can finish with the left and right.
Jesus Christ
God bless Nike and biased to keep access media.Chandan wrote:MJ was almost mystical.
Because that was where the money was in promoting the league. The money now is in debating did he pass Jordan. GOAT is a mythical title with no criteria.Clutch0z24 wrote:The fact whenever LBJ Fans or Media even mention Jordan in the GOAT "Debate" when saying LBJ is the GOAT makes no sense at all...If LeBron is already the GOAT in your eyes why bring up MJ? There should be No Debate and MJ Should not even be in the discussion cause LBJ should already be universally known as the best player ever...Which hes not...
When MJ retired no one was debating MJ Vs Magic or MJ Vs Kareem....It was there is MJ And then there was everyone else...MJ Stood alone as the GOAT universally and it remained that way...If LBJ wants to become the GOAT hes going to have to STEAL the thrown from MJ and Three peat with LA and have 1 more ring then MJ when its all said and done...Then there will be no Debate
They always were at the time. They disbanded the next year.Bigfactsstackz wrote:therealbig3 wrote:I swear people look at everything Jordan with rose-colored glasses.
Never lost in his prime? Dude was winning MVPs and was certainly in his prime from 87-90. His legendary performance against the Celtics was in 86. Also makes no sense to completely discount 95. He definitely lost in his prime.
Never got swept? Literally got swept out of the playoffs in 86 and 87.
GOAT competition? You mean after the Celtics, Lakers, and Pistons got old and injured, that’s when Jordan started winning titles? Couldn’t get past a prime Detroit or Boston team, went up against an old Magic Johnson after Kareem retired, a hobbled Worthy, and a hobbled Scott. Yet people act like he beat the Bad Boy Pistons and the Showtime Lakers. Lmao, no he didn’t. And his other opponents in the Finals are nowhere near GOAT competition. The best teams he played in the East were the Knicks and Pacers, who were clearly outmatched in terms of talent.
And then you have people trying to give him credit for years in which he literally didn’t play! Jordan media machine definitely did its job, y’all are brainwashed lmao.
Kareem won just as much, won more MVPs, has more AS selections, and played for longer. Russell has almost twice as many titles, and the same number of MVPs. If GOAT just becomes a resume comparison where you list titles and MVPs, Jordan is 3rd at best.
So the Pistons were old now ?
MJ's 3 years of college show.Clutch0z24 wrote:MJs Finals Debut
LBJ Finals Debut
MJs Killer instinct just shows through your screen...Not even close
MJ avoided the Rockets.Clutch0z24 wrote:therealbig3 wrote:Clutch0z24 wrote:
No one was debating Jordan was the GOAT against another player...People just knew he was the GOAT from what they witnessed...The Fact people have to try and convince or debate us or the fact MJ is still even in the discussion at all proves that LeBron is infact not the GOAT even in the peoples eyes who are debating that he is....
If LBJ was the GOAT right now there would be no questions and there would be no one in front of him to debate cause he would be universally already be known as the GOAT...
LBJ Still has work to do to pass MJ and thats just what it is....4 Titles where he also had horrible final moments and got dominated in some of them final matchups are just not going to do it to take the GOAT chair from MJ...I feel for LeBron if he ties or three peats with Lakers then he that might just end even the debating
Except I just pointed out that this isn’t true, older fans at the time of Jordan’s retirement did debate his place next to Kareem and Russell and Wilt. But the narrative changed over time and people forget about them now, and make it all about 3 players: Magic and Bird and Jordan, and Jordan was the best out of the 3, therefore he’s the GOAT.
This is your nostalgia speaking.
From what i remember MJ Was considered the GOAT from never losing and being perfect in the Finals...its WHAT he did that made him the GOAT not some imaginary thing ...Its how dominating he was during his time....Thing is LBJ Just hasn't done enough yet to take Jordans throne as of today he has a few more years to try and change that which he still can...And like i said a three peat with the Lakers would prolly do it...Only time will tell if he can do it...
If you think LBJ is better then Jordan right now whats your argument? LBJ avoided the Clippers who were LBJ toughest challenge in the west the rest of the teams were average teams and in the finals he played a 5th seed who were riddled with injuries...
He needs to do a little more to take the Throne from MJ thats why there is still even a debate atm and ppl still bring up Jordan in 2020 as being the GOAT cause he just hasn't done enough to close the case for him being the GOAT yet
He won game 6 in a blowout. Barely beat?sunsbg wrote:Lebron barely beat a depleted Heat team. Replace Butler with 35yo Jordan and Lebron still stands at 3 titles.
David Falk never moved clients to satisfy MJ. The salary rules in the NBA didn't help the B7lls maintain the best team by criminally underpaying Jordan and Pippen to be able to add talent where others couldn't. Jordan didn't retire the moment his team was no good and didn't unretire to get his new team to the playoffs and fail.Brofessor24 wrote:SpaceCenter wrote:Floody100 wrote:I’ll give credit where credit is due. If he can win a couple of more titles than he has a chance to surpass MJ but it’s hard for me to give someone the ‘GOAT’ status when they’ve lost more finals than they’ve won, especially when the guy he’s trying to pass has never lost a final.
He'll never even be top 5 until he wins without Klutch sports and rigged super teams. If he stayed on Cleveland his whole career and had 4 rings I would be listening.
Keep sipping that haterade.
It didn't happen after he started winning. Like MJ being swept prior to his first title.PhilBlackson wrote:Homer38 wrote:PhilBlackson wrote:Its not just that LeBron lost in the Finals, its how that disqualifies him...
He had THE biggest meltdown in pretty much NBA history of any player remotely near his caliber when DAL embarrassed him/the Heat (The Frozen One) and secondly getting beat by historical margins by the Spurs when the Heat were the favorites.
Let me guess though bu..bu..but 3-1 lol next!!!
MJ is the GOAT, deal with it.
2011 was 9 years ago....since that time,he won 4 titles and 4 FMVP.
Does that somehow erase those FACTS or do you really just have no point?! lol
95 against Orlando.GreenBloodedC wrote:camby23 wrote:GreenBloodedC wrote:Just excuses for LeBron.
Basketball is the only team sport where an individual greatly affects the odds in favor of a team.
This is why almost always, you need at least a top 5 player to win the championship.
So why Jordan didn't do it in 80's against Pistons? He was a looser or Pistons was just a better team? Lebron averaged 34 ppg (52%) 8.5 rpg, 10 apg and 33.6 ppg (56%) 12 rpg 10 apg in last two finals against Warriors. What more could he do? These are a GOAT numbers.
This is what I hate about b-ball media and fans. You see basketball players as cartoon characters who win titles by willpower.
Because he and the Bulls still needed to improve and grow at that time? Give me an instance that the Bulls lost when Jordan was already at his peak and they were the favorites.
I can give you several instances LeBron lost when his team were the favorites and he is clearly the best player on the floor.
We're comparing everything else.Bigfactsstackz wrote:zimpy27 wrote:Jordan had a TS% of like 54% for his last 3-peat, aged 32-34
LeBron has a TS% of 64% for his last 3 playoffs at age 32,33,35
Why are we comparing TS from different eras lol
No Bird, Magic, Kareem, Russell, Chamberlain fans wereLBJKB24MJ23 wrote:I am okay with that. nothing wrong with that. I wonder what people were saying during the Jordan days when Jordan was coming up in the GOAT conversation. Knicks fans probably talking like the LBJ haters here on the forum lol.
prophet_of_rage wrote:MJ beat past their prime GOATs in an injured Bird, a Worthy-injured Lakers and a worn out Pistons. He then was pushed by Ewing's Knicks who had one quality player.FlatearthZorro wrote:D.Brasco wrote:Michael Jordan lost more than he won as well. Losing in the first round or not making the playoffs is not better than losing in the finals.
Jordan played against GOAT type competition, who are the GOATs LBJ faced in their prime sans the Celtics and Spurs(who actually weren't in their prime, both teams past their actual prime).
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PLO wrote:Tatum played OK - took advantage of a few mismatches - decent on the defensive end. He is what we thought he was going into the season - a technically very proficient player operating close to his career ceiling as a rookie.
Low scores were from slower pace, fewer 3s and stagnant isolation offences to take advantage of arcane illegal defence rules. The schemes were not as sophisticated as today. They were simply physically tougher.Johnny Bball wrote:therealbig3 wrote:Johnny Bball wrote:
Just compare the film, it's not really close.
Regardless, there are plenty of aspects of 90s ball that made it easier for Jordan too. Comparing what they're doing to league average puts their production in perspective relative to the rest of the players from their era. It's a totally fair way of comparing it.
But whatever hurts the Jordan narrative doesn't count I guess.
I don't have to compare film, I'm old enough to remember scores of 82-75 in the finals and to know you don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, this is a narrative alright, just one slanted to younger people thinking the past is trash for everything. And it's clueless.
prophet_of_rage wrote:MJ's 3 years of college show.Clutch0z24 wrote:MJs Finals Debut
LBJ Finals Debut
MJs Killer instinct just shows through your screen...Not even close
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