Tank World Order 3.0

Inevitable · Post #421 » by **Inevitable** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 1:35 am

Thank goodness Masai embraced the tank.

Los_29 · Post #422 » by **Los_29** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 2:40 am

KL78192020 wrote:
Los_29 wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:
I'm against tanking as a whole especially when we have a gm like masai but we just saw a prime example of the raptors stealth tanking last year, albeit the last 3 months, and it likely brought us a franchise player.

It definitely works.

That's not the tanking that pro-tankers want though. They want a long-term tank job. No one was against our stealth tank last year. It was amazing and stealth tanks have proven to work in the past for already established teams.

The tanking that the pro-tankers want doesn't work though and that's why they haven't given me a single example of it ever working.

All your euphemisms, (ghost tank, stealth tank, fake tank) don't change the fact that Masai tanked. There was nothing stealthy about it lol openly benching fully healthy players like Lowry. Masai literally said, "Play in for what", openly admitting to tanking.

Yeah of course we tanked. We tanked because we had injuries, covid and were the only team in the league playing away from home. What would be the point of playing in the playoffs when we wouldn't have a homecourt advantage and would be getting booed at home?

Masai isn't blowing up his team and loading up on late first round picks. He doesn't rebuild, he retools. He's kept players like Pascal and FVV and doesn't intend to trade these assets for garbage picks like OKC and Houston. He, along with the other elite executives in the league don't believe in tanking. Will there be some situations where they do a stealth tank due to injuries and other factors? Of course. But will they gut their team of assets like OKC, Houston, Orlando and Detroit so they can go on a long-term tank? No they won't. And they won't because it doesn't work.

Los_29 · Post #423 » by **Los_29** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 2:42 am

PrinceAli wrote:I’m having a hard time understanding why people who are so against tanking even bother opening this thread, let alone try to convince others to change their views

Like it’s totally fine if you’re against tanking but there’s really no need to bother trying convince others to have the same views as you

I think we just find it amusing that people blatantly ignore history and are so set in their ways that they can't acknowledge that tanking is not a viable strategy to build a team.

Bruin · Post #424 » by **Bruin** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 2:43 am

Los_29 wrote:
PrinceAli wrote:I’m having a hard time understanding why people who are so against tanking even bother opening this thread, let alone try to convince others to change their views

Like it’s totally fine if you’re against tanking but there’s really no need to bother trying convince others to have the same views as you

I think we just find it amusing that people blatantly ignore history and are so set in their ways that they can't acknowledge that tanking is not a viable strategy to build a team.

Cool if that’s what you believe then awesome. Good for you!

Still don’t see why you feel the need to come into this thread and try to convince other people to change their views

Seems kinda pointless

PhilBlackson · Post #425 » by **PhilBlackson** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 2:47 am

I just wish we could be in the lottery just ONE more year for better odds to find Scottie a better running mate.

If we can find a go to scorer this team will be set for the next near decade.

Madhouse · Post #426 » by **Madhouse** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 2:57 am

PhilBlackson wrote:I just wish we could be in the lottery just ONE more year for better odds to find Scottie a better running mate.

If we can find a go to scorer this team will be set for the next near decade.

We might be. 22 lotto pick and trade Siakam to get a true PG or C to fit this team better together. Need 1 big trade and a lotto pick imo and then we just need to develop, develop, develop. For year 1 of a rebuild it looks pretty promising though.

Johnny Bball · Post #427 » by **Johnny Bball** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 2:58 am

Inevitable wrote:Thank goodness Masai embraced the tank.

Thank goodness he didn't tank for suggs.

Johnny Bball · Post #428 » by **Johnny Bball** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:01 am

PhilBlackson wrote:I just wish we could be in the lottery just ONE more year for better odds to find Scottie a better running mate.

If we can find a go to scorer this team will be set for the next near decade.

You cant just be in the lottery you have to win the lottery.

Skeezo · Post #429 » by **Skeezo** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:05 am

Los_29 wrote:Yeah of course we tanked. We tanked because we had injuries, covid and were the only team in the league playing away from home. What would be the point of playing in the playoffs when we wouldn't have a homecourt advantage and would be getting booed at home?

There's a lot of revisionist history in this statement... Non-tankers last year were holding their ground all-the-way to the trade deadline, that the Raps could turn-it-around based on being in 4th place for a moment in the schedule. Masai was IN on tanking FAR before many members here... Injuries? You mean like the ones where Kyle was out golfing everyday taking DNPs and telling the media he is perfectly healthy and WELL-rested? :lol:

It was the TWO right from the start last year saying, "We are playing in TB this year, it's the perfect year to tank" and they were getting dragged for it ... Funny, how that seems like such rationale move in hindsight. :-?

Los_29 · Post #430 » by **Los_29** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:24 am

Skeezo wrote:
Los_29 wrote:Yeah of course we tanked. We tanked because we had injuries, covid and were the only team in the league playing away from home. What would be the point of playing in the playoffs when we wouldn't have a homecourt advantage and would be getting booed at home?

There's a lot of revisionist history in this statement... Non-tankers last year were holding their ground all-the-way to the trade deadline, that the Raps could turn-it-around based on being in 4th place for a moment in the schedule. Masai was IN on tanking FAR before many members here... Injuries? You mean like the ones where Kyle was out golfing everyday taking DNPs and telling the media he is perfectly healthy and WELL-rested?

It was the TWO right from the start last year saying, "We are playing in TB this year, it's the perfect year to tank" and they were getting dragged for it ... Funny, how that seems like such rationale move in hindsight.

I can't imagine people not being in favour of tanking by the trade deadline. So no, I doubt people were in favour of tanking before Masai was. Weren't OG and FVV injured for parts of February/March and then covid hit 60% of our starting lineup? I think once that happened it was quite clear tanking was the way to go. Masai didn't commit to the tank until the trade deadline. The most shocking part of the end of last year was the denial of some posters on here that we DIDN'T tank. You can go through some of the posts from users from this actual thread and they actually said that Masai signing Khem Birch and Freddie Gillespie was an indication that the Raptors were going for the play-in. And now they are trying to take credit for something that literally everyone wanted (i.e. stealth tank).

And no, it wasn't a rationale move because you never go into the year with the intention to tank. The Raptors certainly didn't have that intention or else Pascal, FVV and Lowry would've been dealt last year. The beliefs of "Team Mediocre" actually align with that of the front office. "TWO's" beliefs align closely with that of the worst organizations in basketball who haven't won anything in this league.

PhilBlackson · Post #431 » by **PhilBlackson** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:26 am

Johnny Bball wrote:
PhilBlackson wrote:I just wish we could be in the lottery just ONE more year for better odds to find Scottie a better running mate.

If we can find a go to scorer this team will be set for the next near decade.

You cant just be in the lottery you have to win the lottery.

Actually no you don't have to necessarily "win the lottery"...

It's simply about IMPROVING ODDS...it's just mathematical & logical FACT that the higher you are in the draft, the better your chances -- because the undeniable fact that they're simply MORE players available to choose from.

Obviously each time a player is drafted, what's available is just less and majority of top players from their draft go in the lottery, that's just a fact. So I want this team to have a better opportunity to do so because we have something in Scottie. I mean we didn't technically "win" this lottery, DET did and we still ended up possibly as well, if not better.

But even if you set different goal posts for what's "winning" the lottery and move it top 4...there's still almost without fail a special or great player that falls through the lottery but not out. Doesn't matter if you're talking about Kawhi, Giannis...Klay, Booker, Mitchell, MP Jr, Herro, SGA, Bam, Haliburton etc etc...if there's ever a scouting department to spot one of those, it's ours. Just want to give them one more shot to nab a talent like that. It doesn't ensure but it just improves the odds, I like ours of spotting a player like any of those...

KL78192020 · Post #432 » by **KL78192020** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:29 am

Skeezo wrote:
Los_29 wrote:Yeah of course we tanked. We tanked because we had injuries, covid and were the only team in the league playing away from home. What would be the point of playing in the playoffs when we wouldn't have a homecourt advantage and would be getting booed at home?

There's a lot of revisionist history in this statement... Non-tankers last year were holding their ground all-the-way to the trade deadline, that the Raps could turn-it-around based on being in 4th place for a moment in the schedule. Masai was IN on tanking FAR before many members here... Injuries? You mean like the ones where Kyle was out golfing everyday taking DNPs and telling the media he is perfectly healthy and WELL-rested?

It was the TWO right from the start last year saying, "We are playing in TB this year, it's the perfect year to tank" and they were getting dragged for it ... Funny, how that seems like such rationale move in hindsight.

Lol exactly. I think the ballboy started watching the Raptors on his April 2021 join date and thats when the tank started according to him.

The exact same dudes bashing this thread to no end were doing much worse bashing and disparaging anyone who posted in any previous TWO threads all of last year. And then all of sudden they clued in. Most people realized the team was trash after the 2-8 start, Los 29 was still hoping for a championship.

Madhouse · Post #433 » by **Madhouse** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:24 am

PhilBlackson wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
PhilBlackson wrote:I just wish we could be in the lottery just ONE more year for better odds to find Scottie a better running mate.

If we can find a go to scorer this team will be set for the next near decade.

You cant just be in the lottery you have to win the lottery.

Actually no you don't have to necessarily "win the lottery"...

It's simply about IMPROVING ODDS...it's just mathematical & logical FACT that the higher you are in the draft, the better your chances -- because the undeniable fact that they're simply MORE players available to choose from.

Obviously each time a player is drafted, what's available is just less and majority of top players from their draft go in the lottery, that's just a fact. So I want this team to have a better opportunity to do so because we have something in Scottie. I mean we didn't technically "win" this lottery, DET did and we still ended up possibly as well, if not better.

But even if you set different goal posts for what's "winning" the lottery and move it top 4...there's still almost without fail a special or great player that falls through the lottery but not out. Doesn't matter if you're talking about Kawhi, Giannis...Klay, Booker, Mitchell, MP Jr, Herro, SGA, Bam, Haliburton etc etc...if there's ever a scouting department to spot one of those, it's ours. Just want to give them one more shot to nab a talent like that. It doesn't ensure but it just improves the odds, I like ours of spotting a player like any of those...

Exactly. We have only been twice in the lottery under Masai. Once for a guy who was traded for Kawhi and then for Barnes. I would feel really good about them getting a difference maker somewhere in the lottery. Obviously hope you get lucky and get top 4 again but wouldn't put it past Masai to draft an All star in the late lottery.

Johnny Bball · Post #434 » by **Johnny Bball** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:40 am

PhilBlackson wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
PhilBlackson wrote:I just wish we could be in the lottery just ONE more year for better odds to find Scottie a better running mate.

If we can find a go to scorer this team will be set for the next near decade.

You cant just be in the lottery you have to win the lottery.

Actually no you don't have to necessarily "win the lottery"...

It's simply about IMPROVING ODDS...it's just mathematical & logical FACT that the higher you are in the draft, the better your chances -- because the undeniable fact that they're simply MORE players available to choose from.

Obviously each time a player is drafted, what's available is just less and majority of top players from their draft go in the lottery, that's just a fact. So I want this team to have a better opportunity to do so because we have something in Scottie. I mean we didn't technically "win" this lottery, DET did and we still ended up possibly as well, if not better.

But even if you set different goal posts for what's "winning" the lottery and move it top 4...there's still almost without fail a special or great player that falls through the lottery but not out. Doesn't matter if you're talking about Kawhi, Giannis...Klay, Booker, Mitchell, MP Jr, Herro, SGA, Bam, Haliburton etc etc...if there's ever a scouting department to spot one of those, it's ours. Just want to give them one more shot to nab a talent like that. It doesn't ensure but it just improves the odds, I like ours of spotting a player like any of those...

No it isn't! Picks 6-13 or 15 or whatever in a draft are too similar. You have to win with ping pong balls because we aren't finishing 1-5 worst. Last year. Or again. I said it last time and will say it this time. So... just no.

So **** your moving goal posts accusation, its luck. Scottie Barnes was pure luck for us because we won the lottery. And if it was left to those in this thread it would have been a waste and Suggs. And if you want Kawhi, then you better just make the lottery period and draft superior, and trade into it simply like the SAS DID DO, but it isn't tanking that does that.

And why are you not on the griz forum still. Thought you stopped being a raps fan.

GreatWhiteStiff · Post #435 » by **GreatWhiteStiff** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:31 pm

Johnny Bball wrote:
GreatWhiteStiff wrote:I think its early in the season, but despite a two and three record, with two blowout victories and the emergence of scottie barnes, the return of Pascal Siakam, and the emergence of Adobe, the toronto raptors should not be expected to tank and will probably contend soon, making this thread moot. I wish you all, good day.

I was thinking to myself how many pages till GreatWhiteStiff shows up, crapping on various things...he's already here!

You are doing god's work, friend.

It is with great sadness and distress I've discovered the tWo is being destroyed by the positive work of the coaching staff and players!

Johnny Bball · Post #436 » by **Johnny Bball** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:53 pm

oops wrong thread.

Darkseid · Post #437 » by **Darkseid** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:55 pm

We might be too good to tank this year.

Pascal could come back and Scottie could continue to improve and we might accidentally be in the play in game.

And maybe it's better just to embrace Scottie and let him get some playoffs reps.

Are we really that afraid of anyone besides Brooklyn /Milwaukee?

I'm looking at the standings and there are some baaaaad teams.

No way we can out tank like 5 teams

Los_29 · Post #438 » by **Los_29** » Sun Oct 31, 2021 1:57 am

GreatWhiteStiff wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
GreatWhiteStiff wrote:I think its early in the season, but despite a two and three record, with two blowout victories and the emergence of scottie barnes, the return of Pascal Siakam, and the emergence of Adobe, the toronto raptors should not be expected to tank and will probably contend soon, making this thread moot. I wish you all, good day.

I was thinking to myself how many pages till GreatWhiteStiff shows up, crapping on various things...he's already here!

You are doing god's work, friend.

It is with great sadness and distress I've discovered the tWo is being destroyed by the positive work of the coaching staff and players!

Another win for Masai, Nurse and Bobby. All while being without their best player. TWO having a meltdown.

GreatWhiteStiff · Post #439 » by **GreatWhiteStiff** » Sun Oct 31, 2021 1:57 am

Johnny Bball wrote:
PhilBlackson wrote:I just wish we could be in the lottery just ONE more year for better odds to find Scottie a better running mate.

If we can find a go to scorer this team will be set for the next near decade.

You cant just be in the lottery you have to win the lottery.

"You miss 100% of the tanks you don't attempt."

-DelAbbot

-MasaiUjiri

Badonkadonk · Post #440 » by **Badonkadonk** » Sun Oct 31, 2021 1:59 am

PrinceAli wrote:
Los_29 wrote:
PrinceAli wrote:I’m having a hard time understanding why people who are so against tanking even bother opening this thread, let alone try to convince others to change their views

Like it’s totally fine if you’re against tanking but there’s really no need to bother trying convince others to have the same views as you

I think we just find it amusing that people blatantly ignore history and are so set in their ways that they can't acknowledge that tanking is not a viable strategy to build a team.

Cool if that’s what you believe then awesome. Good for you!

Still don’t see why you feel the need to come into this thread and try to convince other people to change their views

Seems kinda pointless

By that logic, the whole forum is pointless. It's all argument and debate.

Pretty sure nobody expects to convince anybody to change their Raps world view. I think the annual tWo thread is hilarious and full of the most logic-pretzels, so you can expect a ton more of this :wink: