Update: Shams says NY/Utah have began trade discussions for Donovan Mitchell part 3

[Adelheid]

The knicks are fawning over and trying to give up multiple assets for a guy with wide wingspan but doesnt even try to play defense. But he is an allstar so there is that

Well, you’re talking about a career 23.9 ppg 3x All Star who is only 25 years old but has been playing in the playoffs annually.

And in 39 career playoff games has averaged 28.3ppg. The Knicks haven’t had 39 playoff games since making the finals 23 years ago in 1999 just for reference

Spida playing with a roster centered around playing tough defense and they had the reigning DPoY; a reputation Utah held for a lot of seasons. With all that in mind, of course they would reach the playoffs.

The knicks have...randle who doesnt like to play D, Fournier who is destroyed defensively on most matchups and now we have JB who is a midget, M-rob who cant be relied upon to stay healthy, D-rose who is past his prime, Toppin who is also below avg in defense...

Would Utah be able to go the POs with a less than stellar D? Highly unlikely. Spida solves that problem by providing dynamic offense but he aint going anywhere carrying a team thats bad defensively

[spree2kawhi]

Well, you’re talking about a career 23.9 ppg 3x All Star who is only 25 years old but has been playing in the playoffs annually.

And in 39 career playoff games has averaged 28.3ppg. The Knicks haven’t had 39 playoff games since making the finals 23 years ago in 1999 just for reference

Spida playing with a roster centered around playing tough defense and they had the reigning DPoY; a reputation Utah held for a lot of seasons. With all that in mind, of course they would reach the playoffs.

The knicks have...randle who doesnt like to play D, Fournier who is destroyed defensively on most matchups and now we have JB who is a midget, M-rob who cant be relied upon to stay healthy, D-rose who is past his prime, Toppin who is also below avg in defense...

What are you trying to say?

[Chanel Bomber]

The majority of Knicks fans loves the fantasy of winning - while losing - more than the reality of winning.

They also have a completely distorted perception of their youth. We already went through this with KP, Frank and RJ.

So don't listen to them.

[Adelheid]

And in 39 career playoff games has averaged 28.3ppg. The Knicks haven’t had 39 playoff games since making the finals 23 years ago in 1999 just for reference

Spida playing with a roster centered around playing tough defense and they had the reigning DPoY; a reputation Utah held for a lot of seasons. With all that in mind, of course they would reach the playoffs.

The knicks have...randle who doesnt like to play D, Fournier who is destroyed defensively on most matchups and now we have JB who is a midget, M-rob who cant be relied upon to stay healthy, D-rose who is past his prime, Toppin who is also below avg in defense...

What are you trying to say?

Coming from my original post that started all these replies, what Im saying is: Teams DO value players playing on both ends of the court, even if it means there is some dip in efficiency.

Doesnt matter...we should continue with this direction of teambuilding with no defense

[Reign23]

I like Donovan a lot, but he was not better than Melo.

Carmelo was a beast on Denver and the Knicks put the most I’ll-fitting roster around him. The organization had one of those “management for dummies” books.

When Mitchell drops 40+ in the playoffs you look at his starting lineup and think “he’s got a pretty damn good group to maximize his strengths.”

Melo was dropping 42–17-6 with Toney Douglas and Landry Fields in the backcourt and Ronny Turiaf and Jared Jeffries up front. His 2nd unit was Roger Mason, Billy Walker and Shawne Williams

On our 54 win team friggin JR Smith was our second best offensive weapon.

I need a drink.

this is not talked about enough I think. still insane.

[HarthorneWingo]

They just don’t want to pay a complementary guy before shaping the roster. That’s all. It’s what people Dolan doesn’t understand in New York.

Fixed.

But I think Grimes is more than just a better "complimentary" guy. I think he's a potential All Star. Let's face facts; (1) Grimes is on another level compared to RJ when it comes to shooting, hands down, it's not even close; (2) Grimes is a better defender than RJ, hands down; (3) Grimes is less expensive than RJ; and (4) Grimes fits in the flow of the offense better than RJ.

yeah, I hate to admit it but I think Grimes has a clear path to being a very valuable player on a good team. Whereas RJ's skillset doesn't necessarily give him a smooth fit anywhere on a good team imo.

RJ will be most effective as a primary or secondary creator but he's got a long way to go to get there. And even if he does, what's the ceiling on a team with RJ as the #2? Grimes, if he takes a step forward, will fit cleanly on any good team and could get minutes on any contender.

If we look at last year, I could easily see Grimes getting minutes on GSW, Boston, Dallas, or Miami, especially if he gets better with the ball in his hands attacking closeouts.

I still think he's going to be a 3-D player at best and don't see any all-star bids coming in the future, but if I were a good team, i'd want Grimes over RJ.

[Madskillzz024]

Common sense would say the Heat are not going Don. If Riley and Ainge hate each other , why would Ainge take the lesser deal ? Not to mention the media would be all over him and stroking Riley’s ego. This is all a ploy to drive the price up on the Knicks

Not to mention KD is still out there and I think everyone would pick KD> Spida. Riley is probably more focused on that right now

[spree2kawhi]

I like Donovan a lot, but he was not better than Melo.

Carmelo was a beast on Denver and the Knicks put the most I’ll-fitting roster around him. The organization had one of those “management for dummies” books.

When Mitchell drops 40+ in the playoffs you look at his starting lineup and think “he’s got a pretty damn good group to maximize his strengths.”

Melo was dropping 42–17-6 with Toney Douglas and Landry Fields in the backcourt and Ronny Turiaf and Jared Jeffries up front. His 2nd unit was Roger Mason, Billy Walker and Shawne Williams

On our 54 win team friggin JR Smith was our second best offensive weapon.

I need a drink.

this is not talked about enough I think. still insane.

In a sense we’re still doing the same. In hindsight, these players look as terrible as they were. That didn’t stop folks from hyping them just like they now hype IQ and the rest of our very average Joes. How is IQ any better than JR Smith?

Dare I say it now that Grimes is allegedly showcasing All Star potential with his long range shooting and defensive tenacity in freaking summer league? Toney Douglas stood for the same values: good shooting and gritty defense.

[Reign23]

I like Donovan a lot, but he was not better than Melo.

Carmelo was a beast on Denver and the Knicks put the most I’ll-fitting roster around him. The organization had one of those “management for dummies” books.

When Mitchell drops 40+ in the playoffs you look at his starting lineup and think “he’s got a pretty damn good group to maximize his strengths.”

Melo was dropping 42–17-6 with Toney Douglas and Landry Fields in the backcourt and Ronny Turiaf and Jared Jeffries up front. His 2nd unit was Roger Mason, Billy Walker and Shawne Williams

On our 54 win team friggin JR Smith was our second best offensive weapon.

I need a drink.

this is not talked about enough I think. still insane.

In a sense we’re still doing the same. In hindsight, these players look as terrible as they were. That didn’t stop folks from hyping them just like they now hype IQ and the rest of our very average Joes. How is IQ any better than JR Smith?

Dare I say it now that Grimes is allegedly showcasing All Star potential with his long range shooting and defensive tenacity in freaking summer league? Toney Douglas stood for the same values: good shooting and gritty defense.

he is not. he is actually one of the most overrated players over the past few years in here. wouldn't take a second for me to include him in the deal.

[bearadonisdna]

I like Donovan a lot, but he was not better than Melo.

Carmelo was a beast on Denver and the Knicks put the most I’ll-fitting roster around him. The organization had one of those “management for dummies” books.

When Mitchell drops 40+ in the playoffs you look at his starting lineup and think “he’s got a pretty damn good group to maximize his strengths.”

Melo was dropping 42–17-6 with Toney Douglas and Landry Fields in the backcourt and Ronny Turiaf and Jared Jeffries up front. His 2nd unit was Roger Mason, Billy Walker and Shawne Williams

On our 54 win team friggin JR Smith was our second best offensive weapon.

I need a drink.

this is not talked about enough I think. still insane.

In a sense we’re still doing the same. In hindsight, these players look as terrible as they were. That didn’t stop folks from hyping them just like they now hype IQ and the rest of our very average Joes. How is IQ any better than JR Smith?

Dare I say it now that Grimes is allegedly showcasing All Star potential with his long range shooting and defensive tenacity in freaking summer league? Toney Douglas stood for the same values: good shooting and gritty defense.

They letting Crimes mess with their head . Look I fear these words for sake of trade value but between just us and the Knicks board , he is becoming overrated .

His value is in theory or in SL settings . Cam Thomas won SL mvp last year and the shot 27% on 3pa during the season.
Grimes had a 10 PER and 12 points per 36.
-13 as a starter.
That says fringe nba player more than future Allstar .

Adding 25ppg spida to 20 ppg Julius and 20 ppg RJ
with a Legit pointguard that was 2nd best player on WCF team . You are bordering on super team .
The players we are trying to hold on to will unlikely ever give us this ceiling .

[bearadonisdna]

Now if the FO told me they declined because they value the pics over the players, then I’m like ok I’ll trust the process .
1st rounders was fetching 18 and D guys like nobodies business. You telling me a couple guys who might not play stall the deal I’m not buying that.

[Chanel Bomber]

this is not talked about enough I think. still insane.

In a sense we’re still doing the same. In hindsight, these players look as terrible as they were. That didn’t stop folks from hyping them just like they now hype IQ and the rest of our very average Joes. How is IQ any better than JR Smith?

Dare I say it now that Grimes is allegedly showcasing All Star potential with his long range shooting and defensive tenacity in freaking summer league? Toney Douglas stood for the same values: good shooting and gritty defense.

he is not. he is actually one of the most overrated players over the past few years in here. wouldn't take a second for me to include him in the deal.

IQ has been highly impactful as a bench piece over a two-year span for the Knicks. His impact is tangible. It's demonstrable. With or without Derrick Rose. Albeit against back-ups, for the most part.

IQ might never become a star, but he generally makes the game easier for the Knicks, and he does have the pull-up 3 in his bag, which gives him an upside as a shot creator that other young players on the roster don't have.

[Reign23]

In a sense we’re still doing the same. In hindsight, these players look as terrible as they were. That didn’t stop folks from hyping them just like they now hype IQ and the rest of our very average Joes. How is IQ any better than JR Smith?

Dare I say it now that Grimes is allegedly showcasing All Star potential with his long range shooting and defensive tenacity in freaking summer league? Toney Douglas stood for the same values: good shooting and gritty defense.

he is not. he is actually one of the most overrated players over the past few years in here. wouldn't take a second for me to include him in the deal.

IQ has been highly impactful as a bench piece over a two-year span for the Knicks. His impact is tangible. It's demonstrable. With or without Derrick Rose. Albeit against back-ups, for the most part.

IQ might never become a star, but he generally makes the game easier for the Knicks, and he does have the pull-up 3 in his bag, which gives him an upside as a shot creator that other young players on the roster don't have.

you, lord TS%, always nitpick on effiency from certain players but you love IQ. I never got that.
And I don't even know what "have the pull-up 3 in his bag" mean. he is a 34.6 % three point shooter.

[Synciere]

I hope the deal is dead. Let's go into next season seeing what we have. I think with Brunson and overall improvement from the young players, and a bounce-back season from Randle (he probably will be better than last season...), I think that we're a playoff team.

[TerrenceClarke]

Knicks going thru all of this for Mitchell is crazy.

You go thru all of this for a CULTURE changer.

Donovan isn’t that . All he is, is points on the board…. That’s it.

There is a **** of players in the NBA who could match his offensive output on the Knicks for a far cheaper price.

Mitchell is not a Butler who actually changes the culture of the team he on.

All he is, is points on the board….

Notice through all of this talk we don’t really here about the “leadership” he would bring here.


Smh.

Y’all should be ashamed. You allowed the Knicks to give you blue balls for IVey only for less than 30 days later, to let the Knicks give you blue balls for Mitchell.

[will34]

I think some of you just wanna be miserable. Deep down you want to be bad.

[Oscirus]

Doesn't it say something that the Jazz want Grimes over RJ?

Watch on YouTube

RJ's literally not being offered. It says very little.

[thebuzzardman]

Read on Twitter

From Dolan right hand man

Well, we all know this is an idiot without sources, but feel like stating it anyway.

He's like a 13 year old kid on an bball forum.

Also, nice hedge on his BS, right from the jump. IF we get Mitchell and it's for Fournier/Quickley and 4 firsts - that isn't the right players matching, it's not enough picks for a player at Mitchell's level and it's Ainge.
And of course, that's it's just a silly trade that won't happen for a variety of reasons.
But of course, he'll say, IF the Mitchell trade happens, that it was "too expensive" so source said KD trade was off.
Or some other BS.

[Priggy Smalls]

In a sense we’re still doing the same. In hindsight, these players look as terrible as they were. That didn’t stop folks from hyping them just like they now hype IQ and the rest of our very average Joes. How is IQ any better than JR Smith?

Dare I say it now that Grimes is allegedly showcasing All Star potential with his long range shooting and defensive tenacity in freaking summer league? Toney Douglas stood for the same values: good shooting and gritty defense.

he is not. he is actually one of the most overrated players over the past few years in here. wouldn't take a second for me to include him in the deal.

IQ has been highly impactful as a bench piece over a two-year span for the Knicks. His impact is tangible. It's demonstrable. With or without Derrick Rose. Albeit against back-ups, for the most part.

IQ might never become a star, but he generally makes the game easier for the Knicks, and he does have the pull-up 3 in his bag, which gives him an upside as a shot creator that other young players on the roster don't have.

He was our best perimeter player last year. He's got real juice as a 6th man and I'd do my best to keep him.

[AusKnicksTape]

Now if the FO told me they declined because they value the pics over the players, then I’m like ok I’ll trust the process .
1st rounders was fetching 18 and D guys like nobodies business. You telling me a couple guys who might not play stall the deal I’m not buying that.

Huh ?