Randle's Future

[spree2kawhi]

I think one of the reasons the Knicks aren't "shopping" Randle is that he's undevalued around the league relative to his value for the Knicks.

He turns 30 in November, he's a 4 with no positional versatility, he doesn't space the floor, and his defense has been inconsistent at best. You can imagine not too many teams would be interested in his profile.

Here? He's a good fit because our primary ball-handler isn't a great playmaker, and Randle happens to be a really good one for his position. He also provides scoring punch as a secondary that the team desperately needed before we acquired Mikal. Which isn't to say Randle's limitations haven't been a problem for us, but his strengths are highlighted here.

But with both Mikal and OG here, I think his strengths are less needed, his weaknesses arguably exacerbated.

I think only 3-4 teams would give up equal value for him. Teams desperate to make the playoffs, like Golden State or Houston, would be plausible candidates. Otherwise? I don't think he fits on too many teams (or their timeline).

This is fair. I think you’re overrating him as a playmaker as I think his playmaking/passing is more erratic than reliable. Jokic, Giannis, Sabonis, Doncic, Nurkic, Bam, Draymond, Sengun, Horford, Vucevic and Siakam are all better playmakers in the frontcourt than him, so the list is pretty long (despite probably still being incomplete), but it is a fair assessment regardless.

You forgot Minnesota as a team that could use him really well to mix up / speed up their rotations (since they also have Reid to space the floor). Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets, Dallas just don’t have much to offer. I’d trade him for Sengun, you can bet on that.

[Chanel Bomber]

I think one of the reasons the Knicks aren't "shopping" Randle is that he's undevalued around the league relative to his value for the Knicks.

He turns 30 in November, he's a 4 with no positional versatility, he doesn't space the floor, and his defense has been inconsistent at best. You can imagine not too many teams would be interested in his profile.

Here? He's a good fit because our primary ball-handler isn't a great playmaker, and Randle happens to be a really good one for his position. He also provides scoring punch as a secondary that the team desperately needed before we acquired Mikal. Which isn't to say Randle's limitations haven't been a problem for us, but his strengths are highlighted here.

But with both Mikal and OG here, I think his strengths are less needed, his weaknesses arguably exacerbated.

I think only 3-4 teams would give up equal value for him. Teams desperate to make the playoffs, like Golden State or Houston, would be plausible candidates. Otherwise? I don't think he fits on too many teams (or their timeline).

This is fair. I think you’re overrating him as a playmaker as I think his playmaking/passing is more erratic than reliable. Jokic, Giannis, Sabonis, Doncic, Nurkic, Bam, Draymond, Sengun, Horford, Vucevic and Siakam are all better playmakers in the frontcourt than him, so the list is pretty long (despite probably still being incomplete), but it is a fair assessment regardless.

You forgot Minnesota as a team that could use him really well to mix up / speed up their rotations (since they also have Reid to space the floor). Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets, Dallas just don’t have much to offer. I’d trade him for Sengun, you can bet on that.

Randle for Sengun would be a great deal. Puts every player at their best position imo (Mikal at the 3 and OG at the 4), while solidifying the center rotation.

[Clyde_Style]

I think one of the reasons the Knicks aren't "shopping" Randle is that he's undevalued around the league relative to his value for the Knicks.

He turns 30 in November, he's a 4 with no positional versatility, he doesn't space the floor, and his defense has been inconsistent at best. You can imagine not too many teams would be interested in his profile.

Here? He's a good fit because our primary ball-handler isn't a great playmaker, and Randle happens to be a really good one for his position. He also provides scoring punch as a secondary that the team desperately needed before we acquired Mikal. Which isn't to say Randle's limitations haven't been a problem for us, but his strengths are highlighted here.

But with both Mikal and OG here, I think his strengths are less needed, his weaknesses arguably exacerbated.

I think only 3-4 teams would give up equal value for him. Teams desperate to make the playoffs, like Golden State or Houston, would be plausible candidates. Otherwise? I don't think he fits on too many teams (or their timeline).

This is fair. I think you’re overrating him as a playmaker as I think his playmaking/passing is more erratic than reliable. Jokic, Giannis, Sabonis, Doncic, Nurkic, Bam, Draymond, Sengun, Horford, Vucevic and Siakam are all better playmakers in the frontcourt than him, so the list is pretty long (despite probably still being incomplete), but it is a fair assessment regardless.

You forgot Minnesota as a team that could use him really well to mix up / speed up their rotations (since they also have Reid to space the floor). Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets, Dallas just don’t have much to offer. I’d trade him for Sengun, you can bet on that.

I agree. Randle is a good passer the way Melo was a good rebounder by virtue of his usage rate. Melo followed his own shots for second opportunities more than he boarded when anyone else on the team was shooting. And Randle has a tendency to lose engagement when the ball is out of his hands. His passing is more often than not by necessity. He passes out of collapsing defenders to bail himself out more than to exploit open seams. That's not necessarily a deep flaw, because Brunson is a shoot first player too who usually passes out of double teams. But Randle's role has created many passing opportunities and he is a good enough passer to take advantage of it. But other than that his metrics make his passing skills seem better than they are.

[spree2kawhi]

I think one of the reasons the Knicks aren't "shopping" Randle is that he's undevalued around the league relative to his value for the Knicks.

He turns 30 in November, he's a 4 with no positional versatility, he doesn't space the floor, and his defense has been inconsistent at best. You can imagine not too many teams would be interested in his profile.

Here? He's a good fit because our primary ball-handler isn't a great playmaker, and Randle happens to be a really good one for his position. He also provides scoring punch as a secondary that the team desperately needed before we acquired Mikal. Which isn't to say Randle's limitations haven't been a problem for us, but his strengths are highlighted here.

But with both Mikal and OG here, I think his strengths are less needed, his weaknesses arguably exacerbated.

I think only 3-4 teams would give up equal value for him. Teams desperate to make the playoffs, like Golden State or Houston, would be plausible candidates. Otherwise? I don't think he fits on too many teams (or their timeline).

This is fair. I think you’re overrating him as a playmaker as I think his playmaking/passing is more erratic than reliable. Jokic, Giannis, Sabonis, Doncic, Nurkic, Bam, Draymond, Sengun, Horford, Vucevic and Siakam are all better playmakers in the frontcourt than him, so the list is pretty long (despite probably still being incomplete), but it is a fair assessment regardless.

You forgot Minnesota as a team that could use him really well to mix up / speed up their rotations (since they also have Reid to space the floor). Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets, Dallas just don’t have much to offer. I’d trade him for Sengun, you can bet on that.

I agree. Randle is a good passer the way Melo was a good rebounder by virtue of his usage rate. Melo followed his own shots for second opportunities more than he boarded when anyone else on the team was shooting. And Randle has a tendency to lose engagement when the ball is out of his hands. His passing is more often than not by necessity. He passes out of collapsing defenders to bail himself out more than to exploit open seams. That's not necessarily a deep flaw, because Brunson is a shoot first player too who usually passes out of double teams. But Randle's role has created many passing opportunities and he is a good enough passer to take advantage of it. But other than that his metrics make his passing skills seem better than they are.

Exactly. After all, despite being so evident, this has (unnecessarily) become such a polarizing question. Randle clearly is very serviceable though, but has his flaws. There is only a handful of players I’d move him for. I think that really says a lot.

[3toheadmelo]

that seems insanely disrespectful to me.

let's hope it lights a big, roaring fire under his ass.

I can't find a single player above randle there that is worse than him.


48 is generous. in fact, I would take sengun before randle.

evan mobley, franz warner, lauri markkanen, siakam just to name a few at his own position

Sengun, KAT, Siakam, Lamelo, Jrue, Derozan, Chet, Porzingis, Jamal Murray, JJJ, Cade, J-DUB, Derrick White, Scotie Barnes, Ingram as well

[aggo]

I can't find a single player above randle there that is worse than him.


48 is generous. in fact, I would take sengun before randle.

evan mobley, franz warner, lauri markkanen, siakam just to name a few at his own position

Sengun, KAT, Siakam, Lamelo, Jrue, Derozan, Chet, Porzingis, Jamal Murray, JJJ, Cade, J-DUB, Derrick White, Scotie Barnes, Ingram as well

the only guy on that list that should be ranked below randle is Murray, Ingram and j-dub


everyone else is better

[RHODEY]

Watch on YouTube

[prophet_of_rage]

Yet Randle has been All NBA twice in the past 4 years. Meaning he was top 15 by the end of two seasons and had he played enougg gsmes was going to be All NBA again.

Randle isn't the problem. How people perceive Randle is the problem.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

[KnicksGadfly]

Yet Randle has been All NBA twice in the past 4 years. Meaning he was top 15 by the end of two seasons and had he played enougg gsmes was going to be All NBA again.

Randle isn't the problem. How people perceive Randle is the problem.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

Several issues.
1 - All NBA is a regular season award.
2- NBA is voted by media members.
3 - All NBA is not a top 15 player ranking. That’s an NYKMentality type of argument. That's because All NBA is also affected by injuries and opportunity, and in the past, things like positional designations, and the fact that players have some incentive to stat pad because it affects future salaries (Tyrese Haliburton). I even trust the General Board top rankings more if we want to do the top players of the NBA.

Randle won an All NBA in 22-23. Does that mean he was better than Brunson that season? Even if people didn't see it in the regular season, anyone who watched the playoffs that season could have told you that Brunson was much better, even without the All NBA. Similarly, Brunson didn’t need the validation of an All NBA this year to prove he was better than Randle. He already was. Period.

What it does tell us, though, is that he was very productive in the regular season. Not all players can do that. But that's not the bar for top 15. To be honest, if we're debating Randle's place on the top 50 rankings, we need to move beyond the regular season. That should be the bottom line at most for all the guys on the top 50 - they shouldn't need to prove themselves in the regular season and most of them should already be getting paid big bucks because of that. A lot of those guys should be playing for reputation, legacy, playoff victories, and more.

The good thing, though, is that Randle can really change how people perceive him. It's all in his control. I've always said that he had way more to give, and only himself to blame. There's no reason this board should be this divided on him. We should all be lining up behind him, like we do with Brunson, but Randle needs to change how he's perceived through action to make that happen.

[DaGawd]

Yet Randle has been All NBA twice in the past 4 years. Meaning he was top 15 by the end of two seasons and had he played enougg gsmes was going to be All NBA again.

Randle isn't the problem. How people perceive Randle is the problem.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

Several issues.
1 - All NBA is a regular season award.
2- NBA is voted by media members.
3 - All NBA is not a top 15 player ranking. That’s an NYKMentality type of argument. That's because All NBA is also affected by injuries and opportunity, and in the past, things like positional designations, and the fact that players have some incentive to stat pad because it affects future salaries (Tyrese Haliburton). I even trust the General Board top rankings more if we want to do the top players of the NBA.

Randle won an All NBA in 22-23. Does that mean he was better than Brunson that season? Even if people didn't see it in the regular season, anyone who watched the playoffs that season could have told you that Brunson was much better, even without the All NBA. Similarly, Brunson didn’t need the validation of an All NBA this year to prove he was better than Randle. He already was. Period.

What it does tell us, though, is that he was very productive in the regular season. Not all players can do that. But that's not the bar for top 15. To be honest, if we're debating Randle's place on the top 50 rankings, we need to move beyond the regular season. That should be the bottom line at most for all the guys on the top 50 - they shouldn't need to prove themselves in the regular season and most of them should already be getting paid big bucks because of that. A lot of those guys should be playing for reputation, legacy, playoff victories, and more.

The good thing, though, is that Randle can really change how people perceive him. It's all in his control. I've always said that he had way more to give, and only himself to blame. There's no reason this board should be this divided on him. We should all be lining up behind him, like we do with Brunson, but Randle needs to change how he's perceived through action to make that happen.

which he’s been doing imo. he didn’t even get a chance to play in the playoffs and change his perception last year do to the injury, yet we have folks with their pitch forks out this summer for whatever reason.

[KnicksGadfly]

Yet Randle has been All NBA twice in the past 4 years. Meaning he was top 15 by the end of two seasons and had he played enougg gsmes was going to be All NBA again.

Randle isn't the problem. How people perceive Randle is the problem.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

Several issues.
1 - All NBA is a regular season award.
2- NBA is voted by media members.
3 - All NBA is not a top 15 player ranking. That’s an NYKMentality type of argument. That's because All NBA is also affected by injuries and opportunity, and in the past, things like positional designations, and the fact that players have some incentive to stat pad because it affects future salaries (Tyrese Haliburton). I even trust the General Board top rankings more if we want to do the top players of the NBA.

Randle won an All NBA in 22-23. Does that mean he was better than Brunson that season? Even if people didn't see it in the regular season, anyone who watched the playoffs that season could have told you that Brunson was much better, even without the All NBA. Similarly, Brunson didn’t need the validation of an All NBA this year to prove he was better than Randle. He already was. Period.

What it does tell us, though, is that he was very productive in the regular season. Not all players can do that. But that's not the bar for top 15. To be honest, if we're debating Randle's place on the top 50 rankings, we need to move beyond the regular season. That should be the bottom line at most for all the guys on the top 50 - they shouldn't need to prove themselves in the regular season and most of them should already be getting paid big bucks because of that. A lot of those guys should be playing for reputation, legacy, playoff victories, and more.

The good thing, though, is that Randle can really change how people perceive him. It's all in his control. I've always said that he had way more to give, and only himself to blame. There's no reason this board should be this divided on him. We should all be lining up behind him, like we do with Brunson, but Randle needs to change how he's perceived through action to make that happen.

which he’s been doing imo. he didn’t even get a chance to play in the playoffs and change his perception last year do to the injury, yet we have folks with their pitch forks out this summer for whatever reason.

That's me.



Honestly, I think the right thing to do is just wait and see. Like you said, he didn't really get to prove himself. He's probably not going anywhere. The team likes him, Dolan likes him.

However, when you say that he didn't prove himself, it's not like we're talking about Randle proving himself when he had a blank slate. He had worse than a blank slate. I think there are a lot more people getting in on the Randle bandwagon after last season, and that's even worse. That's not really justifiable, and some of the arguments supporting him have been very weak and easily disproved.

I can get cautious optimism, but there should not be any commitment from anyone at this point.

[Iron Mantis]

Watch on YouTube

What I got from this video is we need a center who can shoot.

Capella wasn't defending anyone at all...just roaming the paint and helping on Randle. Disgusting.

[JayTWill]

Yet Randle has been All NBA twice in the past 4 years. Meaning he was top 15 by the end of two seasons and had he played enougg gsmes was going to be All NBA again.

Randle isn't the problem. How people perceive Randle is the problem.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

Several issues.
1 - All NBA is a regular season award.
2- NBA is voted by media members.
3 - All NBA is not a top 15 player ranking. That’s an NYKMentality type of argument. That's because All NBA is also affected by injuries and opportunity, and in the past, things like positional designations, and the fact that players have some incentive to stat pad because it affects future salaries (Tyrese Haliburton). I even trust the General Board top rankings more if we want to do the top players of the NBA.

Randle won an All NBA in 22-23. Does that mean he was better than Brunson that season? Even if people didn't see it in the regular season, anyone who watched the playoffs that season could have told you that Brunson was much better, even without the All NBA. Similarly, Brunson didn’t need the validation of an All NBA this year to prove he was better than Randle. He already was. Period.

What it does tell us, though, is that he was very productive in the regular season. Not all players can do that. But that's not the bar for top 15. To be honest, if we're debating Randle's place on the top 50 rankings, we need to move beyond the regular season. That should be the bottom line at most for all the guys on the top 50 - they shouldn't need to prove themselves in the regular season and most of them should already be getting paid big bucks because of that. A lot of those guys should be playing for reputation, legacy, playoff victories, and more.

The good thing, though, is that Randle can really change how people perceive him. It's all in his control. I've always said that he had way more to give, and only himself to blame. There's no reason this board should be this divided on him. We should all be lining up behind him, like we do with Brunson, but Randle needs to change how he's perceived through action to make that happen.

which he’s been doing imo. he didn’t even get a chance to play in the playoffs and change his perception last year do to the injury, yet we have folks with their pitch forks out this summer for whatever reason.

It's unfortunate that he got injured last year and he wasn't able to prove himself in the playoffs but that doesn't change the fact that he will be 31 years old at the start of his next contract with the ability to opt out after this year and questions still lingering around his ability to be a good playoff performer.

The Knicks can keep him and let things playout until the playoffs but there are risks in that. If he has another poor showing in the playoffs what do they do? Keep a guy that hasn't shown he can help you when it matters the most? Let him walk for nothing? Hope that some team gives you something of value in a trade for a player? Maybe Randle opts into the last year of his deal in that situation with a limited market for him. I don't know.

If he is injured again what do they do? Just re-sign him and hope for the best? If he has one great series and one terrible series and the Knicks get knocked out in the second round what should they do? Is there some level of success that the team and Randle need to reach in the playoffs for it to make sense to re-sign him into his mid 30's?

Randle is starting his 6th season in New York and his 11th season in the NBA. He is soon to be 30 years old. Everyone knows his strengths and weaknesses. The organization should not be putting a ton of weight into one postseason at this point in his career. I still think they need to make a decision with what to do with him between now and the trade deadline.

[Kampuchea]

Randle was going to beast last years playoffs, he was playing bully ball and taking it to the rim. He’s a beast when using his body to his advantage and not living by the three point line.

That style of play would have worked wonders in the playoffs, can’t wait to see it this year.

[3toheadmelo]

Watch on YouTube

What I got from this video is we need a center who can shoot.

Capella wasn't defending anyone at all...just roaming the paint and helping on Randle. Disgusting.

Mitch made things so much harder for Randle. It’s no coincidence Randle played a lot better with Hartenstein.

[KnicksGadfly]

https://youtu.be/2vlCq-BP1-8?t=134

Keith Smith thinks Knicks are going to wait and see for Randle

-Brunson, OG, and Mikal are the core
-Thinks Randle is the swing piece...they're gonna wait and see
-Guessing that Randle picks up player option (31 million) because the cap space teams next summer are very few
-Thinks nothing is gonna get done this offseason and they're gonna go figure it out next season
-Think people make mistakes when building team when they only consider "collecting talent" and not "fit"

[RHODEY]

Watch on YouTube

What I got from this video is we need a center who can shoot.

Capella wasn't defending anyone at all...just roaming the paint and helping on Randle. Disgusting.

Video highlights the vast improvement in Randles playmaking with better teammates during last seasons January run. Us adding even more talent to that bodes well for him. When he looked bad versus ATL his teammates were much lesser quality.

[Iron Mantis]

Watch on YouTube

What I got from this video is we need a center who can shoot.

Capella wasn't defending anyone at all...just roaming the paint and helping on Randle. Disgusting.

Video highlights the vast improvement in Randles playmaking with better teammates during last seasons January run. Us adding even more talent to that bodes well for him. When he looked bad versus ATL his teammates were much lesser quality.

I'm tired of hearing about 12-2 January..especially as an indication of what will happen in the coming playoffs.

8 of those 14 games were against lottery teams.

Against the quality opponents, we went 4-2...which is not bad, but it's not amazing, nor is 6 games a sample size large enough to put much stock in.

We will have to wait and see. But there's no doubt the overall team is better now, and I believe the OG effect is real. He was great for us in the playoffs.

The Randle going Super Saiyan in January is a myth

For being surrounded by glorious shooters in Jan, Randle's playmaking wasn't any better in Jan than in December.........he averaged more turnovers in Jan than any other month while averaging the same amount of assists he averaged in November.



Offensively, his best month was December, and it's not even close. And his shot diet was better quality. Also In Dec he shot a blistering 76% less than 5ft.




He sure did take a lot more 3's and extra long 2's after getting OG though. He needs to cut that out. Looks like defenses adjusted to his bully ball in Jan since his efficiency dropped by -20% at the rim and he felt the need to shoot further out... I'll have to watch the film.

[RHODEY]

What I got from this video is we need a center who can shoot.

Capella wasn't defending anyone at all...just roaming the paint and helping on Randle. Disgusting.

Video highlights the vast improvement in Randles playmaking with better teammates during last seasons January run. Us adding even more talent to that bodes well for him. When he looked bad versus ATL his teammates were much lesser quality.

I'm tired of hearing about January 12-2..especially as an indication of what will happen in the coming playoffs.

8 of those 14 games were against lottery teams.

Against the quality opponents, we went 4-2...which is not bad, but it's not amazing, nor is 6 games a sample size large enough to put much stock in.

We will have to wait and see. But there's no doubt the overall team is better now, and I believe the OG effect is real. He was great for us in the playoffs.

The Randle going Super Saiyan in January is a myth

For being surrounded by glorious shooters in Jan, Randle's playmaking wasn't any better in Jan than in December.........he averaged more turnovers in Jan than any other month while averaging the same amount of assists he averaged in November.



Offensively, his best month was December, and it's not even close. And his shot diet was better quality. Also In Dec he shot a blistering 76% less than 5ft.




He sure did take a lot more 3's and extra long 2's after getting OG though. He needs to cut that out. Looks like defenses adjusted to his bully ball in Jan since his efficiency dropped by -20% at the rim and he felt the need to shoot further out... I'll have to watch the film.

Was Randle getting selected for the All-star game also a myth?

[Iron Mantis]

Video highlights the vast improvement in Randles playmaking with better teammates during last seasons January run. Us adding even more talent to that bodes well for him. When he looked bad versus ATL his teammates were much lesser quality.

I'm tired of hearing about January 12-2..especially as an indication of what will happen in the coming playoffs.

8 of those 14 games were against lottery teams.

Against the quality opponents, we went 4-2...which is not bad, but it's not amazing, nor is 6 games a sample size large enough to put much stock in.

We will have to wait and see. But there's no doubt the overall team is better now, and I believe the OG effect is real. He was great for us in the playoffs.

The Randle going Super Saiyan in January is a myth

For being surrounded by glorious shooters in Jan, Randle's playmaking wasn't any better in Jan than in December.........he averaged more turnovers in Jan than any other month while averaging the same amount of assists he averaged in November.



Offensively, his best month was December, and it's not even close. And his shot diet was better quality. Also In Dec he shot a blistering 76% less than 5ft.




He sure did take a lot more 3's and extra long 2's after getting OG though. He needs to cut that out. Looks like defenses adjusted to his bully ball in Jan since his efficiency dropped by -20% at the rim and he felt the need to shoot further out... I'll have to watch the film.

Was Randle getting selected for the All-star game also a myth?

"Was mirror quinoa gazelle a moonrocks placenta?"

That's how your question sounds to me, since it has nothing to do with anything I said.