2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion

[falcolombardi]

I honestly have no idea how Draymond is leading.

His defensive numbers aren't that impressive. On/Off defensive net rating only +2.1 compared to +3.3 for Mobley.

Mobley defends more shots overall and more shots at the rim. Mobley is a much better rebounder, fouls less, and leads the league in defensive shot quality influence.

What is the case for Draymond such that he went from a huge dog to a odds on favorite?

He's been publicly lobbying for it and the media doesn't know who else to give it to.

Is odd cause there is a very obvious defensive team to reward this year (okc) but no one has considered their players

[jasonxxx102]

I honestly have no idea how Draymond is leading.

His defensive numbers aren't that impressive. On/Off defensive net rating only +2.1 compared to +3.3 for Mobley.

Mobley defends more shots overall and more shots at the rim. Mobley is a much better rebounder, fouls less, and leads the league in defensive shot quality influence.

What is the case for Draymond such that he went from a huge dog to a odds on favorite?

He's been publicly lobbying for it and the media doesn't know who else to give it to.

Is odd cause there is a very obvious defensive team to reward this year (okc) but no one has considered their players

I just think it's hard for voters to really pick a clear standout best on the team.

It's an award that's biased towards bigs so if Chet was healthy all year he would have run away with it by now. Voters don't like giving guards the award, Lu Dort may be their best defender but the numbers aren't super elite and the defense gets better with him off the floor.

[cupcakesnake]

I honestly have no idea how Draymond is leading.

His defensive numbers aren't that impressive. On/Off defensive net rating only +2.1 compared to +3.3 for Mobley.

Mobley defends more shots overall and more shots at the rim. Mobley is a much better rebounder, fouls less, and leads the league in defensive shot quality influence.

What is the case for Draymond such that he went from a huge dog to a odds on favorite?

There are plenty of defensive numbers Draymond is impressive at.
- 3.1 deflections (80th percentile)
- -8.2 defensive rim fg% (90th percentile, but he doesn't defend the rim at a high volume)
- -5% opponent fg% (87th percentile)
- 3.5 block% (87th percentile)
- Really strong contesting and defensive playmaking stats.
- 2nd in DDARKO
- 2nd in DBPM (craftednba), 4th in DBPM (bballref)
- 2nd in DDRIP
- 10th in D-EPM

Draymond is really good at defense, and the defensive stats always tend to agree with that. Whenever I'm thinking about DPOY anytime this decade, I have to at least check on what kind of season Draymond Green is having. He's had seasons where the minutes, team success, or narrative just weren't there enough to be in the upper echelon's of the conversation. His impact is always in the upper echelons though.

This all being said, I still have Mobley as my DPOY. Thinking Draymond doesn't have a valid case is folly though.

[cupcakesnake]

He's been publicly lobbying for it and the media doesn't know who else to give it to.

Is odd cause there is a very obvious defensive team to reward this year (okc) but no one has considered their players

I just think it's hard for voters to really pick a clear standout best on the team.

It's an award that's biased towards bigs so if Chet was healthy all year he would have run away with it by now. Voters don't like giving guards the award, Lu Dort may be their best defender but the numbers aren't super elite and the defense gets better with him off the floor.

I think J-Dub is the only one who would have had a chance to make a case. Chet hasn't played enough games, neither has iHart, Caruso hasn't played enough minutes, Dort is more of a specialist that the others, Cason is still young and unknown. Only Jalen Williams has the overall footprint of a DPOY candidate: strong matchup defender, positional versatility, crazy elite rim protection for a wing-sized player. He's the guy who stepped in and played center when all the bigs were injured, and literally excelled. Only Caruso and the bigs have better help defense than J.Dub, and they don't have the minutes. Dort and Wallace are better perimeter defenders, but they don't have anywhere near the same help impact.

He might not even be the best defender on his team, but he's the one with the best DPOY case. I don't see a campaign for him to win this award, so I think OKC's army of all-defensive types just cancel each other out for this award.

[benhillboy]

Is odd cause there is a very obvious defensive team to reward this year (okc) but no one has considered their players

I just think it's hard for voters to really pick a clear standout best on the team.

It's an award that's biased towards bigs so if Chet was healthy all year he would have run away with it by now. Voters don't like giving guards the award, Lu Dort may be their best defender but the numbers aren't super elite and the defense gets better with him off the floor.

I think J-Dub is the only one who would have had a chance to make a case. Chet hasn't played enough games, neither has iHart, Caruso hasn't played enough minutes, Dort is more of a specialist that the others, Cason is still young and unknown. Only Jalen Williams has the overall footprint of a DPOY candidate: strong matchup defender, positional versatility, crazy elite rim protection for a wing-sized player. He's the guy who stepped in and played center when all the bigs were injured, and literally excelled. Only Caruso and the bigs have better help defense than J.Dub, and they don't have the minutes. Dort and Wallace are better perimeter defenders, but they don't have anywhere near the same help impact.

He might not even be the best defender on his team, but he's the one with the best DPOY case. I don't see a campaign for him to win this award, so I think OKC's army of all-defensive types just cancel each other out for this award.

They’ll litter the All Defensive teams, likely 3 in SGA, Dort, and Jalen. There should be 3 teams like ALL NBA, then they’d surely have 4. Cason, Chet, and Hartenstein are more putting voters on notice for coming seasons. It’s a shame a lot of fans don’t know how relentless Wallace is staying in front and glued to his man.

[benhillboy]

I honestly have no idea how Draymond is leading.

His defensive numbers aren't that impressive. On/Off defensive net rating only +2.1 compared to +3.3 for Mobley.

Mobley defends more shots overall and more shots at the rim. Mobley is a much better rebounder, fouls less, and leads the league in defensive shot quality influence.

What is the case for Draymond such that he went from a huge dog to a odds on favorite?

There are plenty of defensive numbers Draymond is impressive at.
- 3.1 deflections (80th percentile)
- -8.2 defensive rim fg% (90th percentile, but he doesn't defend the rim at a high volume)
- -5% opponent fg% (87th percentile)
- 3.5 block% (87th percentile)
- Really strong contesting and defensive playmaking stats.
- 2nd in DDARKO
- 2nd in DBPM (craftednba), 4th in DBPM (bballref)
- 2nd in DDRIP
- 10th in D-EPM

Draymond is really good at defense, and the defensive stats always tend to agree with that. Whenever I'm thinking about DPOY anytime this decade, I have to at least check on what kind of season Draymond Green is having. He's had seasons where the minutes, team success, or narrative just weren't there enough to be in the upper echelon's of the conversation. His impact is always in the upper echelons though.

This all being said, I still have Mobley as my DPOY. Thinking Draymond doesn't have a valid case is folly though.

Draymond had a few understandable lulls defensively during Steph’s longest hiatuses due to injury, same with Steph being a complete sieve when Draymond has been missing for stretches.


Still the Wardell/ Day/ Captain trio will forever set the standard for player fitment IMO. The way their strengths covered for one another’s weaknesses was downright scientific. If the Warriors brass actually envisioned anything close to what they became, hats the hell off.

The metrics certainly don’t lie this year or any. Draymond has always been a wrecking ball.

[bstein14]

Pistons have been the best defensive team in the NBA since Jan 1st.... Held the Spurs to no FG's for almost an 11 minute stretch during the 2nd quarter tonight. I wonder if anyone gets a 2nd team all-defense nod from Detroit.

[MaliBrah]

The draymond nonsense gotta stop man. The Warriors (and draymond) haven't been good enough for an award winner this year

[bstein14]

[TyFrekey]

No idea if this has been mentioned at all, but Keegan Murray deserves to at least be in an All Defense conversation. Likely not make it, but his name should be mentioned.

[jasonxxx102]

No idea if this has been mentioned at all, but Keegan Murray deserves to at least be in an All Defense conversation. Likely not make it, but his name should be mentioned.

I scoffed at this post and then before posting something snarky checked the numbers and I was really surprised. To be clear I've watched maybe like 5 Kings games this year so I had no idea but pretty good

[Castle Black]

Read on Twitter

[benhillboy]

Yeah I’m on board with giving it to a Thunder player, I don’t give a damn who it is. The Hawks got a 5 Man POTY award during their 60 win season, giving the Thunder a team DPOY seems in order.


I love watching the Grizzlies. They look like a dark horse contender to most of the league. Unless they play OKC and they look like a borderline play-in team.

Them boys take defense more seriously than the Larry Brown Pistons. Gotta love it.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Nembhard really should be considered for an All-Defensive team.

[RB34]

23-0 in fast break points is wild.

Wrong thread. There needs to be 3 teams. Thanks.

[tmorgan]

Love my Pistons… but that Ausar number, 2nd in NBA in steals this calendar year, is cool until you realize the leader has about 3 million steals.

Hats off to Dyson Daniels. He’s like Spider-Man on defense with that extra-sensory stuff.

[bbms]

some of us tried to heat discussion on jdub earlier the season

dude is a monster

now you guys have to eat draymond green

[Special_Puppy]

Where does Dort’s defensive reputation come from? He’s clearly a good defender, but the analytics have generally never seen him as a great defender

[Special_Puppy]

Yeah I’m on board with giving it to a Thunder player, I don’t give a damn who it is. The Hawks got a 5 Man POTY award during their 60 win season, giving the Thunder a team DPOY seems in order.


.

OKC’s 3 best defenders are ineligible

[djsunyc]

scottie barnes probably won't make it this year but i think he will next season. raptors have the 2nd best drtg since january 11 (35 games).