Official NBA General Discussion 2024-25 V2.0

[FrozenLeafz]

No, we should have done a complete tank instead of a half measure every single time. I’m well aware FVV could have kept this team a fringe playoff team and I absolutely didn’t want that.

Seeing how poor the past four drafts have been, that would’ve not been a good idea. We have the benefit of hindsight now. Despite our team being more expensive, we are in much better shape with a lottery pick and our current core than fielding a team of Shaedon Sharpe’s and Reed Sheppard’s.

This is an interesting point. I could be wrong about this....but in the past 5 or 6 years there seems to be a trend in that top draft picks are taking much longer to have an impact on winning than they did before. In the current playoffs.....Cade is the only player that I can name that is making a serious impact. And he's on year 4.

Hmm I think you can include Sengun and maybe Franz Wagner and Paolo Banchero. Magic needs more depth to help those two

[Pointgod]

it's interesting watching Siakam, OG, Fred helping their teams win in the playoffs but they couldn't figure it out playing together on the raptors in their final years....I guess they all got paid and now they started focusing on winning again.

The team around them was poorly constructed

[Clutch0z24]

It was a great trio. They are proving that in the playoffs. The issue is they were asked to do too much. It’s really a shame that the 2021 draft wasn’t better because if you replace Scottie with a top-tier scorer than that core would still be together. Unfortunately Scottie’s skillset did not mesh and it just never worked out.

We also ran into the issue of our guys being too expensive. Ultimately the right decision was made.

They were a great trio if they would be surrounded by a team like we had in 2019 sure With a leader like Lowry and a legit superstar in Kawhi....But if you think FVV/Siakam/OG as your lead players as the trio would make it far....I think you are lying to yourself....Brunson/KAT/Bridges/OG is a better team and they are prolly not making it out the 2nd round....Siakam/OG/FVV trio would always need a true superstar on it to actually win....

Yeah hating on the direction we are in now but let Masai cook with the draft game....Hes a great drafter....

Well you could have added a superstar to that threesome (with poetl) because you had the ROY and multiple future picks.

So doesn't your argument suggest Barnes should've been traded instead of getting rid of the Fred/og/siakam?

It sure seems like fred/OG/superstar/siakam/poetl might have been a better direction than our current one no?

Could make that case but what superstars were really on the table at that time? The majority of the legit stars were locked into their teams at that time and it was pretty bare bones for superstars asking out....Durant could be an argument but the age of Durant was maybe a concern....If there was a Superstar available who was maybe just turning 30...Would be alot better argument to give up lots for that player....But no player existed at that time.

Masai didn't want to go all in on a older KD with injury concerns.....Also KD might have forced his way to Suns since it was reported for a long time thats where he wanted to be...

[Los_29]

FVV Went to a team that has a boat load of top picks compiled together for years now....Which made the team that they have now with the Rockets....Raptors were never in position to add that talent with high end draft picks....And Rockets are not a championship level team....Prolly a 2nd round exit...Or maybe a 1st round exit on Sunday we will see

As for the Pacers they are clearly built much better than the Raptors and have players on their team that fit Siakams game to a T With Turner/Hailiburton....Wasn't that way here....Again Siakams Pacers are most likely a 2nd round exit losing to the Cavs...

OG And the Knicks are very deep with multiple all stars in Brunson/KAT/Bridges as teammates....Prolly a 2nd round exit as well as they struggled against the young Pistons and might get swept against the Celtics...

You can hate on the direction we are in now but we clearly ran our chorus with the Siakam/FVV lead teams because they were ultimatly first round/Play in exit teams for a while since Kawhi left.....Thats not really success in my mind....We need to be worse to get better....Masai is a great drafter....Let him cook a bit before judging too soon.

It was a great trio. They are proving that in the playoffs. The issue is they were asked to do too much. It’s really a shame that the 2021 draft wasn’t better because if you replace Scottie with a top-tier scorer than that core would still be together. Unfortunately Scottie’s skillset did not mesh and it just never worked out.

We also ran into the issue of our guys being too expensive. Ultimately the right decision was made.

They were a great trio if they would be surrounded by a team like we had in 2019 sure With a leader like Lowry and a legit superstar in Kawhi....But if you think FVV/Siakam/OG as your lead players as the trio would make it far....I think you are lying to yourself....Brunson/KAT/Bridges/OG is a better team and they are prolly not making it out the 2nd round....Siakam/OG/FVV trio would always need a true superstar on it to actually win....

Yeah hating on the direction we are in now but let Masai cook with the draft game....Hes a great drafter....

Reading comprehension buddy.

What part of “it was a great trio but asked to do too much” and “needed a top-tier scorer” did you not understand? lol.

[Boogie!]

FVV is so clutch, he’s been totally disrespected by this fanbase for his contributions to that 2019 run

He had 1 and a half good series. He almost cost us the second round with his ****.

That being said, after the horrendous start to the series he’s had 2 good games back to back so I’ll give him credit for that.

Case in point. The guy hit 5 threes in the clinching NBA Finals game as a 3rd year player while guarding Steph Curry and we have people here trashing him because he missed some shots against Orlando in R1 that year lol

Absolutely bizarre stuff.

Orlando? Did you not watch the Philly series either? I said second round and you’re here talking about Orlando. I don’t even bother bringing that **** series up but the fact he was unplayable for 2 whole series can’t be swept under the rug…

[Los_29]

Seeing how poor the past four drafts have been, that would’ve not been a good idea. We have the benefit of hindsight now. Despite our team being more expensive, we are in much better shape with a lottery pick and our current core than fielding a team of Shaedon Sharpe’s and Reed Sheppard’s.

This is an interesting point. I could be wrong about this....but in the past 5 or 6 years there seems to be a trend in that top draft picks are taking much longer to have an impact on winning than they did before. In the current playoffs.....Cade is the only player that I can name that is making a serious impact. And he's on year 4.

Hmm I think you can include Sengun and maybe Franz Wagner and Paolo Banchero. Magic needs more depth to help those two

Sengun, yes. Banchero and Wagner were woefully inefficient in these playoffs. Not only do they need help but they need to be knocked down the pecking order for a better, more efficient scorer. Unfortunately those aren’t easy to find.

[Randle McMurphy]

He had 1 and a half good series. He almost cost us the second round with his ****.

That being said, after the horrendous start to the series he’s had 2 good games back to back so I’ll give him credit for that.

Case in point. The guy hit 5 threes in the clinching NBA Finals game as a 3rd year player while guarding Steph Curry and we have people here trashing him because he missed some shots against Orlando in R1 that year lol

Absolutely bizarre stuff.

Orlando? Did you not watch the Philly series either? I said second round and you’re here talking about Orlando. I don’t even bother bringing that **** series up but the fact he was unplayable for 2 whole series can’t be swept under the rug…

Who is sweeping anything under the rug? I remember the Philly series, the entire team offensively sucked outside of Kawhi and Ibaka; it doesn't mean that all those players didn't play their part in winning a championship that year.

FVV was a massive contributor to that team in the two biggest series they played and hit 5 threes in the clinching game and you're here trying to diminish him 6 years later after another great playoff series for him because he bothers you that much. You're literally proving my point.

[Boogie!]

FVV is so clutch, he’s been totally disrespected by this fanbase for his contributions to that 2019 run

He had 1 and a half good series. He almost cost us the second round with his ****.

That being said, after the horrendous start to the series he’s had 2 good games back to back so I’ll give him credit for that.

He's been their best player the entire series if you don't exclusively judge basketball performance by FG% (which is insane).

What's the point of even watching a game if you can just see shot attempts and buckets in the box score after the game is played?

If you are actually watching the games (which I doubt) you would know that the ball has been safest in fred's hands the entire series. Jalen green and Amen Thompson are having serious difficulties in handling the ball and making decisions. Fred is not having those difficulties.

That's why all the fred haters showed their own ass after game 1. Fred didn't play badly in that game. He just didn't shoot well. You guys literally see basketball as "derrrrrr ball goes in derrrrrr ball goes out".

You don't see that Fred is the best screen setting point guard in the entire league. You don't see how he constantly delivers the ball to mismatches . You don't see how he disrupts offensive sets.

That's why you love norm powell. A guy who literally does NOTHING on the floor except for scoring. The ball going into the net or not is all you see.

Shooting 20% but setting screens wow. He’s like a **** point guard Rasho nesterovic lmao…

You also realize they lost in the games he struggled and have won the games he’s shot well… almost like scoring more points than the other team is how you win games.

[Los_29]

He had 1 and a half good series. He almost cost us the second round with his ****.

That being said, after the horrendous start to the series he’s had 2 good games back to back so I’ll give him credit for that.

Case in point. The guy hit 5 threes in the clinching NBA Finals game as a 3rd year player while guarding Steph Curry and we have people here trashing him because he missed some shots against Orlando in R1 that year lol

Absolutely bizarre stuff.

Orlando? Did you not watch the Philly series either? I said second round and you’re here talking about Orlando. I don’t even bother bringing that **** series up but the fact he was unplayable for 2 whole series can’t be swept under the rug…

Boogie, remember, take out emotions abd be objective. Fred was not unplayable in any series. The guy averaged 3 shots a game in that Philly series.

You can’t look at boxscore stats. You need to watch the games.

[FrozenLeafz]

This is an interesting point. I could be wrong about this....but in the past 5 or 6 years there seems to be a trend in that top draft picks are taking much longer to have an impact on winning than they did before. In the current playoffs.....Cade is the only player that I can name that is making a serious impact. And he's on year 4.

Hmm I think you can include Sengun and maybe Franz Wagner and Paolo Banchero. Magic needs more depth to help those two

Sengun, yes. Banchero and Wagner were woefully inefficient in these playoffs. Not only do they need help but they need to be knocked down the pecking order for a better, more efficient scorer. Unfortunately those aren’t easy to find.

Really? Besides Wagner's 3s, they looked pretty good. Considering they were taking like 80% of Orlando's shots and their starting guards were KCP and CoJo. I thought they did alright to pretty good and it's against the Celtics

The Magics are probably hoping Jalen Suggs could be that guy, but probably not.

[Los_29]

Hmm I think you can include Sengun and maybe Franz Wagner and Paolo Banchero. Magic needs more depth to help those two

Sengun, yes. Banchero and Wagner were woefully inefficient in these playoffs. Not only do they need help but they need to be knocked down the pecking order for a better, more efficient scorer. Unfortunately those aren’t easy to find.

Really? Besides Wagner's 3s, they looked pretty good. Considering they were taking like 80% of Orlando's shots and their starting guards were KCP and CoJo. I thought they did alright to pretty good and it's against the Celtics

The Magics are probably hoping Jalen Suggs could be that guy, but probably not.

51% TS% at high volume is very bad.

You mean the Magic are hoping Suggs can be a good role player for them? Or their top scorer?

[Randle McMurphy]

Case in point. The guy hit 5 threes in the clinching NBA Finals game as a 3rd year player while guarding Steph Curry and we have people here trashing him because he missed some shots against Orlando in R1 that year lol

Absolutely bizarre stuff.

Orlando? Did you not watch the Philly series either? I said second round and you’re here talking about Orlando. I don’t even bother bringing that **** series up but the fact he was unplayable for 2 whole series can’t be swept under the rug…

Boogie, remember, take out emotions abd be objective. Fred was not unplayable in any series. The guy averaged 3 shots a game in that Philly series.

You can’t look at boxscore stats. You need to watch the games.

Who cares even if he was unplayable against Philly? Everything in basketball is matchup oriented and that team wasn't a good one for him (or for many of them).

I'll put it as simply as this. The Raptors don't win the 2019 title if FVV isn't on that team. He shot 30/57 from three in the last 9 games of that season while guarding the greatest offensive PG in the history of basketball for most of those.

The fact that this forum regularly goes out of their way to hate on him, a guy who was significantly responsible for winning what will likely be the only Raptors title in our lifetimes, is as much bizarre as it is ridiculous.

[Los_29]

Orlando? Did you not watch the Philly series either? I said second round and you’re here talking about Orlando. I don’t even bother bringing that **** series up but the fact he was unplayable for 2 whole series can’t be swept under the rug…

Boogie, remember, take out emotions abd be objective. Fred was not unplayable in any series. The guy averaged 3 shots a game in that Philly series.

You can’t look at boxscore stats. You need to watch the games.

Who cares even if he was unplayable against Philly? Everything in basketball is based on matchups and that team wasn't a good one for him (or for many).

I'll put it as simply as this. The Raptors don't win the 2019 title if FVV isn't on that team. He shot 30/57 from three in the last 9 games of that season while guarding the greatest offensive PG in the history of basketball for most of those.

The fact that this forum regularly goes out of their way to hate on him is as much bizarre as it is ridiculous.

Their takes have aged horribly but they just refuse to admit they have been wrong. So they’ll come out of the woodwork after a poor shooting game but be completely silent in his good games.

At this point, the evidence is just overwhelmingly against them. It doesn’t help that our team has been so bad without him.

[FrozenLeafz]

Sengun, yes. Banchero and Wagner were woefully inefficient in these playoffs. Not only do they need help but they need to be knocked down the pecking order for a better, more efficient scorer. Unfortunately those aren’t easy to find.

Really? Besides Wagner's 3s, they looked pretty good. Considering they were taking like 80% of Orlando's shots and their starting guards were KCP and CoJo. I thought they did alright to pretty good and it's against the Celtics

The Magics are probably hoping Jalen Suggs could be that guy, but probably not.

51% TS% at high volume is very bad.

You mean the Magic are hoping Suggs can be a good role player for them? Or their top scorer?

I think you're reading too much into analytical stats. If Paolo and Franz had more offensive guard threat, Celtics defense wouldn't be honing only on them.

Either a high efficient scorer or top scorer

[sidsid]

Pretending that the Rockets are an actual playoff team is of course missing the point. They're not. This remains a test of the Warriors as a contending playoff team on offense. And there's just too many dead minutes from the supporting cast. Can't test the defense as the Rockets are a rudderless offense dependent on hitting enough 3s to sustain.

The Zack Lowe podcast diving in to what's fun about playoff adjustments. The entire thrust of this series is the Rockets D finding creative ways to hide Sengun while the Warriors go to ever more drastic schemes and lineups to expose him.

[Los_29]

Really? Besides Wagner's 3s, they looked pretty good. Considering they were taking like 80% of Orlando's shots and their starting guards were KCP and CoJo. I thought they did alright to pretty good and it's against the Celtics

The Magics are probably hoping Jalen Suggs could be that guy, but probably not.

51% TS% at high volume is very bad.

You mean the Magic are hoping Suggs can be a good role player for them? Or their top scorer?

I think you're reading too much into analytical stats. If Paolo and Franz had more offensive guard threat, Celtics defense wouldn't be honing only on them.

Either a high efficient scorer or top scorer

Banchero and Wagner weren’t efficient in the regular season though. They simply aren’t good enough to shoulder a high workload.

I think you’re wildly overrating Suggs. He’s been atrocious as an offensive player. Inefficient, low volume scorer outside of one year. There is nothing to suggest he can be a good scorer in this league.

He is a great complimentary player though if that three is falling like it did two years ago.

[FrozenLeafz]

51% TS% at high volume is very bad.

You mean the Magic are hoping Suggs can be a good role player for them? Or their top scorer?

I think you're reading too much into analytical stats. If Paolo and Franz had more offensive guard threat, Celtics defense wouldn't be honing only on them.

Either a high efficient scorer or top scorer

Banchero and Wagner weren’t efficient in the regular season though. They simply aren’t good enough to shoulder a high workload.

I think you’re wildly overrating Suggs. He’s been atrocious as an offensive player. Inefficient, low volume scorer outside of one year. There is nothing to suggest he can be a good scorer in this league.

He is a great complimentary player though if that three is falling like it did two years ago.

I was talking about the playoffs, not the regular season. And I agree they can't shoulder a high workload, which what I'm saying, they need better depth so that they can take lesser and more efficient shots.

I never rated Suggs, I just said that that's what I think Orlando is hoping for is that Suggs becomes an efficient scorer...

[mdenny]

Orlando? Did you not watch the Philly series either? I said second round and you’re here talking about Orlando. I don’t even bother bringing that **** series up but the fact he was unplayable for 2 whole series can’t be swept under the rug…

Boogie, remember, take out emotions abd be objective. Fred was not unplayable in any series. The guy averaged 3 shots a game in that Philly series.

You can’t look at boxscore stats. You need to watch the games.

Who cares even if he was unplayable against Philly? Everything in basketball is matchup oriented and that team wasn't a good one for him (or for many of them).

I'll put it as simply as this. The Raptors don't win the 2019 title if FVV isn't on that team. He shot 30/57 from three in the last 9 games of that season while guarding the greatest offensive PG in the history of basketball for most of those.

The fact that this forum regularly goes out of their way to hate on him, a guy who was significantly responsible for winning what will likely be the only Raptors title in our lifetimes, is as much bizarre as it is ridiculous.

I've repeated this multiple times on this board. Fred's games 4, 5 and 6 against the Bucks was the hottest 3 game shooting streak from 3 in the history of the NBA playoffs.

So for example...Steph Curry has never put together a three game shooting streak in the playoffs better than what Fred did in those 3 games.

Fred is playing a much different role in this series against the warriors than he ever played for the raptors. He is literally doing everything on both ends of the court.

That goes for the games when he wasn't shooting well too.

The haters be like "oh look....rocketman341 on Instagram is turning against Fred too!"

Like we shouldn't expect non-basketball ppl to hate on Fred. Been that way his entire career.

[Los_29]

I think you're reading too much into analytical stats. If Paolo and Franz had more offensive guard threat, Celtics defense wouldn't be honing only on them.

Either a high efficient scorer or top scorer

Banchero and Wagner weren’t efficient in the regular season though. They simply aren’t good enough to shoulder a high workload.

I think you’re wildly overrating Suggs. He’s been atrocious as an offensive player. Inefficient, low volume scorer outside of one year. There is nothing to suggest he can be a good scorer in this league.

He is a great complimentary player though if that three is falling like it did two years ago.

I was talking about the playoffs, not the regular season. And I agree they can't shoulder a high workload, which what I'm saying, they need better depth so that they can lesser and more efficient shots.

I never rated Suggs, I just said that that's what I think Orlando is hoping for is that Suggs becomes an efficient scorer...

Yeah, if they can’t find that top-tier scorer then trying to overwhelm teams with 3-4 guys might work. But ultimately they need better talent at the top.

Yeah for sure, Orlando is hoping he can become an efficient, low-volume scorer. I thought you meant he could become a top scorer.

[FrozenLeafz]

Banchero and Wagner weren’t efficient in the regular season though. They simply aren’t good enough to shoulder a high workload.

I think you’re wildly overrating Suggs. He’s been atrocious as an offensive player. Inefficient, low volume scorer outside of one year. There is nothing to suggest he can be a good scorer in this league.

He is a great complimentary player though if that three is falling like it did two years ago.

I was talking about the playoffs, not the regular season. And I agree they can't shoulder a high workload, which what I'm saying, they need better depth so that they can lesser and more efficient shots.

I never rated Suggs, I just said that that's what I think Orlando is hoping for is that Suggs becomes an efficient scorer...

Yeah, if they can’t find that top-tier scorer then trying to overwhelm teams with 3-4 guys might work. But ultimately they need better talent at the top.

Yeah for sure, Orlando is hoping he can become an efficient, low-volume scorer. I thought you meant he could become a top scorer.

I really think Banchero can be that guy, I've seen him in the clutch before. He just needs a better team