Update: It is time to trade Scottie Barnes before it's too late!

[PushDaRock]

Im down with trading Barnes if you can get something really good....Good player just not a franchise player we all hoped for....If you can fool a GM to give up a good package for him thinking they can make him a franchise player still go and do it now while you can...I think CMB will eventually be the same level player Scottie is which is a high level role player for way less money....

If you can turn Barnes into a High level prospect PG like Maxey or something and a few future 1sts id do the trade.

I don’t know how to tell you this, but if there’s a Scottie/Maxey trade, I don’t think we’re the ones getting the picks.

I'm guessing he meant "like" Maxey as in a prospect similar in play style and potential to him but not actually Maxey himself.

[CPT]

Im down with trading Barnes if you can get something really good....Good player just not a franchise player we all hoped for....If you can fool a GM to give up a good package for him thinking they can make him a franchise player still go and do it now while you can...I think CMB will eventually be the same level player Scottie is which is a high level role player for way less money....

If you can turn Barnes into a High level prospect PG like Maxey or something and a few future 1sts id do the trade.

I don’t know how to tell you this, but if there’s a Scottie/Maxey trade, we’re not the ones getting the picks.

Not saying that deal particular i brought up Maxey as a sim player we could go after that style....We need a dynamic PG....IQ is not a true PG and we been missing a PG general since Lowry.....Use Barnes to find that type of player would be my goal....

Fair. That’s definitely a spot we could use a big upgrade, though I think it will be tough to find a Lowry type.

Funnily enough, the guy who comes to mind is Suggs, but he’s still got a lot to prove (including staying healthy).

At the same time, I’m willing to give IQ a real shot with a (hopefully) healthy team that is trying to win.

[CazOnReal]

If by "interesting" you mean "insufferably reactionary" then yes.

Like do none of you remember when Siakam - a more seasoned NBA player - struggled in the 2023/24 season adapting to a new role? It's not easy and it doesn't help when 3 of your 4 years in the league have been marked by an understated level of turnover for the roster.

Scottie and Poeltl being the most tenured players (Jakob if you count non-consecutive, Scottie if you only count consecutive) is a testament to how frustrating the teambuilding has been for the past two years in terms of both complimentary talent & asset use. And I say this as someone who's high on guys like Dick & Walter's ability to space the floor next to Scottie.

What are you talking about with Siakam struggling? Prior to ‘23/24 he was already our #1 option for 2 straight years. In ‘23/24 he put up 22/6/5 on 60% TS with us.

You really don't remember the numbers that Siakam put up and the scrutiny he received at the start? Yeah, okay.

[canada_dry]

Bargnani was always atrocious defensively and a horrendously poor rebounder for his size. Yeah he was okay his first 2 years because he was used more as a role player behind bigs like Bosh and Rasho.

When Bosh left, his scoring output went up simply due to higher volume, but he had almost zero impact on winning. We won 20, 22 and 23 games with Bargnani at the helm in a weak Eastern Conference between 2010 and 2012. You look at every advanced stat during that period and Bargnani was terrible. It was actually Amir Johnson and Jose that led the team in WS, VORP and RPM in those years. Even in terms of scoring Bargnani was overrated. He was skilled, but didn't use his body properly, wasn't aggressive, and didn't shoot that well from deep for a guy known as a "shooter."

His best statistical season was in 2011 where he averaged 21ppg and 5rpg on 44%fg and 35%3fg...not very good for a 7 footer that is so bad defensively.

That doesn't sound familiar? Looked good as a role player playing off stars, then when he was given the keys , not so much... not agressive, doesn't use his body or strength correctly... themore im reading what you're saying the more in the back of my mind im saying "uh oh..."

Noone is saying they play similar or have similar strengths and weaknesses. You're focusing on the wrong things.

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Big difference between Bargnani and Barnes - Barnes is a positive contributor even if he's not shooting well, he has very positive advanced stats in WS, VORP, and RPM. Barnes right now is probably the ideal 3rd option on a championship contender whereas Bargnani never was near being a true 3rd option on a championship contender.

I look at it like this: In his prime Bargnani was ideally a good 6th man that could give you some decent offense, but he was not a positive contributor that you could rely on for heavy minutes. However, Barnes even with his limitations is a borderline all-star and legitimate top 30-40 player in the league.

The fear with Barnes is whether he can reach the next level offensively, but I don't think anyone here doubts that he is a very, very good player. He's a great finisher around the basket, he's great defensively, very versatile, a good passer, a great rebounder for his height, and a net positive all around. The question is whether Barnes will be an Iggy type of player, or can he progress to the next level and become a legit top 15-20 player.

I agree with that for the most part. Im not saying i agree with the comparison per se, i was just saying a lot of the things being said about bargnani im reading that made him particularly disappointing and im finding myself thinking they're kinda applicable to scottie in some ways too, and that makes me nervous. Not in regards to playstyle or defense or rebounding etc but moreso in stagnation and motor and lack of using his physical tools, maturity, etc.

Obviously im hoping that all gets cleared up here soon in the games that count.

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[canada_dry]

Im down with trading Barnes if you can get something really good....Good player just not a franchise player we all hoped for....If you can fool a GM to give up a good package for him thinking they can make him a franchise player still go and do it now while you can...I think CMB will eventually be the same level player Scottie is which is a high level role player for way less money....

If you can turn Barnes into a High level prospect PG like Maxey or something and a few future 1sts id do the trade.

I don’t know how to tell you this, but if there’s a Scottie/Maxey trade, I don’t think we’re the ones getting the picks.

I'm guessing he meant "like" Maxey as in a prospect similar in play style and potential to him but not actually Maxey himself.

I think that's exactly what we were attempting to do when we acquired Quickley.


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[PushDaRock]

I don’t know how to tell you this, but if there’s a Scottie/Maxey trade, I don’t think we’re the ones getting the picks.

I'm guessing he meant "like" Maxey as in a prospect similar in play style and potential to him but not actually Maxey himself.

I think that's exactly what we were attempting to do when we acquired Quickley.


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Definitely, he looked like a breakout candidate. He was excellent as a starter with the Knicks. Technically, he still has broken out some, just not as much as we would have liked yet.

[Thaddy]

IQ is going to be good this season. He's been getting the main part right and that's a high volume of 3s and defense. His POA defense is surprising. His help defense could utilize his wingspan better though. I would also like for him to ditch the floater game. Either drive fully and finish, or kick it out. FVV couldn't finish and was great at that.

[Shakril]

If by "interesting" you mean "insufferably reactionary" then yes.

Like do none of you remember when Siakam - a more seasoned NBA player - struggled in the 2023/24 season adapting to a new role? It's not easy and it doesn't help when 3 of your 4 years in the league have been marked by an understated level of turnover for the roster.

Scottie and Poeltl being the most tenured players (Jakob if you count non-consecutive, Scottie if you only count consecutive) is a testament to how frustrating the teambuilding has been for the past two years in terms of both complimentary talent & asset use. And I say this as someone who's high on guys like Dick & Walter's ability to space the floor next to Scottie.

What are you talking about with Siakam struggling? Prior to ‘23/24 he was already our #1 option for 2 straight years. In ‘23/24 he put up 22/6/5 on 60% TS with us.

You really don't remember the numbers that Siakam put up and the scrutiny he received at the start? Yeah, okay.

Scrutiny? Siakam never had the same expectations as Scottie, and Siakam has played himself into the heart of all raptors fans. Only in the last 3 years with the raps he got more critique.

[ConSarnit]

What are you talking about with Siakam struggling? Prior to ‘23/24 he was already our #1 option for 2 straight years. In ‘23/24 he put up 22/6/5 on 60% TS with us.

You really don't remember the numbers that Siakam put up and the scrutiny he received at the start? Yeah, okay.

Scrutiny? Siakam never had the same expectations as Scottie, and Siakam has played himself into the heart of all raptors fans. Only in the last 3 years with the raps he got more critique.

It’s a terrible comparison. Siakam started out terrible from 3 and his defensive effort waxed and waned across literally less than half a season (possibly due to an increased offensive load). We had a contingent on this board who thought Siakam was being selfish and holding Barnes back by dominating the ball. These people were morons because they didn’t realize that Siakam was the ONLY player on the team who could create shots for others AND score efficiently.

People didn’t like Siakam’s defensive effort for 39 games. That was a reasonable criticism. Dumb people criticized his role on offense even though we had no other options and the offense collapsed any time he was off the floor. We’re going on YEAR 4 of Barnes showing little to no improvement on the offensive end.

Siakam shifting roles for 39 games is not the same as 4 years of completely lackluster development from a guy we’re paying the max.

[bobbyp3588]

Im down with trading Barnes if you can get something really good....Good player just not a franchise player we all hoped for....If you can fool a GM to give up a good package for him thinking they can make him a franchise player still go and do it now while you can...I think CMB will eventually be the same level player Scottie is which is a high level role player for way less money....

If you can turn Barnes into a High level prospect PG like Maxey or something and a few future 1sts id do the trade.

I don’t know how to tell you this, but if there’s a Scottie/Maxey trade, I don’t think we’re the ones getting the picks.

Look at Mr. Smart pants. Touché! Lol

[DreamTeam09]

Don't you guys ever get tired of the flip-flopping lack of patience sensationalized must have instant gratification what have you done for me lately posts?

[TakeYourHeart]

You honestly cannot judge any other player on the roster when they're on the floor with Scottie Barnes. It's 4 on 5 out there. They're guarding him like Westbrook.

You can't judge IQ



You can't judge RJ



You can't judge BI

[JB7]

You honestly cannot judge any other player on the roster when they're on the floor with Scottie Barnes. It's 4 on 5 out there. They're guarding him like Westbrook.

You can't judge IQ



You can't judge RJ



You can't judge BI

This is why they need Barnes to initiate the offence, for as much of the time he is on the court. It is why I also think they need to split up BI and Barnes minutes, as much as possible.

Surround Barnes with primarily shooters (IQ, Gradey & Ochai).

There are 48 mins in the game. They just need to run more hockey style lines. Have the 5 starters only play like 4 mins to start each half, and the rest of the game have two set lineups:
- Yak, Barnes, Gradey, Ochai & IQ
- Mamu, CMB, BI, RJ & Shead

This way, the starters average 28mins per game, and the "bench" players average 20mins per game.

[ConSarnit]

Don't you guys ever get tired of the flip-flopping lack of patience sensationalized must have instant gratification what have you done for me lately posts?

Ridiculous. It’s been 4 years. He’s on a max contract now. The scrutiny is deserved.

[ConSarnit]

You honestly cannot judge any other player on the roster when they're on the floor with Scottie Barnes. It's 4 on 5 out there. They're guarding him like Westbrook.

You can't judge IQ



You can't judge RJ



You can't judge BI

This is why they need Barnes to initiate the offence, for as much of the time he is on the court. It is why I also think they need to split up BI and Barnes minutes, as much as possible.

Surround Barnes with primarily shooters (IQ, Gradey & Ochai).

There are 48 mins in the game. They just need to run more hockey style lines. Have the 5 starters only play like 4 mins to start each half, and the rest of the game have two set lineups:
- Yak, Barnes, Gradey, Ochai & IQ
- Mamu, CMB, BI, RJ & Shead

This way, the starters average 28mins per game, and the "bench" players average 20mins per game.

Barnes initiating the offense has never gotten us anywhere. You have to be some threat to score to be an offensive initiator. You don’t have to be perfect but you need to be able to get to the rim and draw fouls or shoot. Ideally you can do both. Barnes can do neither.

Barnes is not good enough as an offensive hub to deserve the honor of running the offense. He’s not a Luka-like creator/passer. He’s a good passer but it’s not enough. Ingram and IQ are better pnr players. High post hub action doesn’t work when Poeltl’s man is camped in the paint. For the majority of sets teams like to run we have better options than Barnes are the initiator.

Having Barnes run the offense is beneficial to Barnes individual game but I don’t know how much it really helps the rest of the team. If anything would work it would probably be Barnes paired with Mamu, providing spacing for Barnes to drive. Ingram works better with Poeltl because BI isn’t necessarily interested in getting to the rim and could use Poeltl’s screening to get his shots off. Barnes could really benefit from a spacing C and hopefully Mamu can provide some of that.

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

Do his teammates do that to him in practices and scrimmages are do you think they’re told to pretend he’s a threat to score?

[DreamTeam09]

Don't you guys ever get tired of the flip-flopping lack of patience sensationalized must have instant gratification what have you done for me lately posts?

Ridiculous. It’s been 4 years. He’s on a max contract now. The scrutiny is deserved.

Ridiculous, it's been 4yrs, His rookie contract hasn't officially kicked in yet, IT'S PRESEASON,
The scrutiny is ABSOLUTELY not deserved, like Ru okay?

This is just instant gratification I want it and I want it now mantra

[bluerap23]

Last year was a bit of a throw away for Scottie. He was encouraged to just chuck 3s to get reps since we weren't trying to win. I'm expecting a leap this year with him focusing on playing to his strengths. I don't want to see him shoot a 3 unless he is wide open and being challenged to do so. He clearly took a step back last season without Pascal beside him drawing attention. That should be corrected with BI.

What would be the correction you are expecting?

What I want to see is bully ball. I want to see him play more like Giannis. Rebound, run, drive, pass.

[DreamTeam09]

You honestly cannot judge any other player on the roster when they're on the floor with Scottie Barnes. It's 4 on 5 out there. They're guarding him like Westbrook.

You can't judge IQ



You can't judge RJ



You can't judge BI

This is why they need Barnes to initiate the offence, for as much of the time he is on the court. It is why I also think they need to split up BI and Barnes minutes, as much as possible.

Surround Barnes with primarily shooters (IQ, Gradey & Ochai).

There are 48 mins in the game. They just need to run more hockey style lines. Have the 5 starters only play like 4 mins to start each half, and the rest of the game have two set lineups:
- Yak, Barnes, Gradey, Ochai & IQ
- Mamu, CMB, BI, RJ & Shead

This way, the starters average 28mins per game, and the "bench" players average 20mins per game.

well that's bad play design by Darko or instructions on Darko. Scottie should be diving on all those plays catching the ball with a head of steam and when the big steps up to help yak is there or he continues to the rim.
You guys see an issue or problem and say to yaselvs "f it just get rid of the player"

you can have 5 Steph Currys out there and you still wouldn't see perfect basketball

[PushDaRock]

You honestly cannot judge any other player on the roster when they're on the floor with Scottie Barnes. It's 4 on 5 out there. They're guarding him like Westbrook.

You can't judge IQ



You can't judge RJ



You can't judge BI

This is why they need Barnes to initiate the offence, for as much of the time he is on the court. It is why I also think they need to split up BI and Barnes minutes, as much as possible.

Surround Barnes with primarily shooters (IQ, Gradey & Ochai).

There are 48 mins in the game. They just need to run more hockey style lines. Have the 5 starters only play like 4 mins to start each half, and the rest of the game have two set lineups:
- Yak, Barnes, Gradey, Ochai & IQ
- Mamu, CMB, BI, RJ & Shead

This way, the starters average 28mins per game, and the "bench" players average 20mins per game.

This isn't JV Basketball lol your best players are not just playing 28 mins a game.