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The What Should We Do With the 5th Pick II: IBJ Edition

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Re: The What Should We Do With the 5th Pick II: IBJ Edition 

Post#421 » by Severn Hoos » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:00 pm

doclinkin wrote:Nice footage from the SacKings PG workout.

Tyreke vs Curry vs Calathes vs Flynn vs Toney Douglas vs Paddy Mills. You can learn more about which players a team is interested in by what players don't show up in their highlights package. There's notably little of Tyreke in here despite reports saying he killed the workout.


On the one hand, it's kind of disappointing that we don't see more footage from the Wiz' workouts. Hmmm, come to think of it, who DID the Wiz showcase in their videos?

There was a lot of footage of Hill and DeRozan. By your theory (which I subscribe to), they're most likely not in serious consideration. There was some limited footage of Harden - could be they're downplaying the interest or how well they thought he did in the workout?

Curry got a lot of time in the Pointguardapalooza video. Does that mean that they're trying to make him look good to hide their interest elsewhere? They even included a clip of Steph going to the hole for a dunk.

But one guy had absolutely no footage on the website. There's a clip of the post-workout interview with Tyreke Evans, but no footage of the actual workout. As far as I can tell, he's the only one who didn't have his workout video posted. Could that be the sign that Tyreke is the first choice if they keep the pick?

Yep, I'm starting to think my prediction for the pick will be moving in Tyreke's direction.
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Re: The What Should We Do With the 5th Pick II: IBJ Edition 

Post#422 » by Rafael122 » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:06 pm

Awesome, we have options. I thought getting the 5th pick would be bad, but this could be a blessing in disguise for us. Key here is to get the team to accept Etan or James, and whoever stays here gets traded at the deadline.
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Re: The What Should We Do With the 5th Pick II: IBJ Edition 

Post#423 » by closg00 » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:09 pm

doclinkin wrote:Nice footage from the SacKings PG workout.

Tyreke vs Curry vs Calathes vs Flynn vs Toney Douglas vs Paddy Mills. You can learn more about which players a team is interested in by what players don't show up in their highlights package. There's notably little of Tyreke in here despite reports saying he killed the workout.


Wow, Evans strength is really apparent, the dude is a strong-body who could take an NBA pounding for-sure compared to the others. Sure the dude has an ugly-azz shot, but it was going in. The other PG's looked slight when mixed-in with Evans. Calathes is a stick, but he's very crafty. Put another 20 pounds on him and he could easily hold his own.
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Re: The What Should We Do With the 5th Pick II: IBJ Edition 

Post#424 » by doclinkin » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:14 pm

Gilbert0Arenas wrote:The Grizzlies are going to screw everything up by picking Rubio. Nobody wants to play for them so they might as well pick the best out of that bunch.

and I really hope the rumor about Jeffries and Hughes is total BS. A 19-63 season and we end up with these losers. I'm sorry for the torture that was last year (actually the last three years), we deserve better.



My guess, the Hughes Jeffries rumor coming from 'sources' inside the Nixies organization is at best an attempt to drive down or set the market for the asking price on a trade-up. 'If that's the sort of garbage the Wizards want, well maybe we don't have to offer more than... '
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Re: The What Should We Do With the 5th Pick II: IBJ Edition 

Post#425 » by doclinkin » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:16 pm

closg00 wrote:
doclinkin wrote:Nice footage from the SacKings PG workout.

Tyreke vs Curry vs Calathes vs Flynn vs Toney Douglas vs Paddy Mills. You can learn more about which players a team is interested in by what players don't show up in their highlights package. There's notably little of Tyreke in here despite reports saying he killed the workout.


Wow, Evans strength is really apparent, the dude is a strong-body who could take an NBA pounding for-sure compared to the others. Sure the dude has an ugly-azz shot, but it was going in. The other PG's looked slight when mixed-in with Evans. Calathes is a stick, but he's very crafty. Put another 20 pounds on him and he could easily hold his own.


Defensively Jonny Flynn was up inside everybody's BVD's. Doesn't matter if even Tyreke's ugly shot can get off over the top of his head, but at least no one could shake him with footwork.

My guy Stef Curry got burned somewhat on D. No huge surprise.
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Re: The What Should We Do With the 5th Pick II: IBJ Edition 

Post#426 » by FreeBalling » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:19 pm

Ruzious wrote:
NbdyBeatsTheWiz wrote:Saw the wiretap that said we're interested in trading with the Knicks to land "Hughes or Jeffries" and choked on my own vomit a little bit.

Hughes? maybe.
Jeffires? puuuuh-lease :noway:

Chain reaction vomiting here as well. It sounds like some Knick fan blogger who's saying he has inside sources in the Wiz organization... Like you say - I could believe Hughes (considering he'll have an expiring contract), but Jeffries? Nosir.



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Re: The What Should We Do With the 5th Pick II: IBJ Edition 

Post#427 » by cdouglas » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:46 pm

Hughes and Jeffries and I know this has to be a JOKE! If this isn't they might as well add Hayes and Ruffini to the team!
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Re: The What Should We Do With the 5th Pick II: IBJ Edition 

Post#428 » by MJG » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:48 pm

In case anyone needs to feel better, just remember that we've been rumored to be interested in getting back Jeffries and especially Hughes pretty much since the days they left, and yet here we are, years later, with neither having been returned to us. I doubt that changes going forward.
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Re: The What Should We Do With the 5th Pick II: IBJ Edition 

Post#429 » by mhd » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:55 pm

Per Chad Ford, The Blazers are looking to try and get Rubio. They are talking to the Wiz. The Wiz are telling ANY teams that Etan MUST be included in any package. The Blazers want maximum cap space to sign Hedo.
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Re: The What Should We Do With the 5th Pick II: IBJ Edition 

Post#430 » by doclinkin » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:00 pm

Severn Hoos wrote:
doclinkin wrote:Nice footage from the SacKings PG workout.

Tyreke vs Curry vs Calathes vs Flynn vs Toney Douglas vs Paddy Mills. You can learn more about which players a team is interested in by what players don't show up in their highlights package. There's notably little of Tyreke in here despite reports saying he killed the workout.


On the one hand, it's kind of disappointing that we don't see more footage from the Wiz' workouts. Hmmm, come to think of it, who DID the Wiz showcase in their videos?

There was a lot of footage of Hill and DeRozan. By your theory (which I subscribe to), they're most likely not in serious consideration. There was some limited footage of Harden - could be they're downplaying the interest or how well they thought he did in the workout?

Curry got a lot of time in the Pointguardapalooza video. Does that mean that they're trying to make him look good to hide their interest elsewhere? They even included a clip of Steph going to the hole for a dunk.

But one guy had absolutely no footage on the website. There's a clip of the post-workout interview with Tyreke Evans, but no footage of the actual workout. As far as I can tell, he's the only one who didn't have his workout video posted. Could that be the sign that Tyreke is the first choice if they keep the pick?

Yep, I'm starting to think my prediction for the pick will be moving in Tyreke's direction.


He's definitely an Ernie-type pick, unmatched physical talent at a given position, thus gambling on upside and the ability to adjust. I've had to adjust my comfort level with his possible selection. I'm pretty much where you are in terms of draft strategy and fears.

Some of his weaknesses are the sort of thing that can be fixed. Not sure what to do about that jumper, you either rebuild it entirely or leave it alone. (The ugliest thing about it ain't the release, it's the sloppy fade-away one-legged kick from outside-- that's robbing him of range at the NBA three. That's prob'ly fixable though, just a bad habit). Whatever the jumper may always be inconsistent, streaky when guarded at the next level-- but either way his jumper isn't why you draft him, or not. Freshman turnovers are one stat that commonly drops over time, that's likely to get better no matter what.

One issue I have is more of a question mark. You draft him because of his first step, hesitation quicks, his ability to blow by his man and get a bucket. One problem that Tyreke will have to solve though: In the dribble drive motion offense, when the perimeter attacker is ready to make his move the Bigs get out of the paint and draw the defender with them. If you check his highlights for instnace Tyreke is constantly blowing past a defender to finish in the lane with a gentle lay-up-- no bigs anywhere in sight.

In the NBA, while -- okay yeah I'm convinced-- only a handful of players will be able to stay in front of him (if that) he will need a second option when the paint is closed. He needs a pull-up jumper, or a floater, or a reliable pass to JaVale for the dunk. He really needs an off-the-dribble jumpshot to take advantage of the picks and screens that Flips system will give him. He needs a 1-B move when he's got an Okafor or Dwight in front of him ready to erase that soft lay-up. He's not soaring over them to put his bacon and eggs in their face. And solid as he is, I don't recall him bouncing off bigs to hit the shot (nice mid-air body control, and the long arms means he can get that mid-air lay-up after remarkable contortions).

With a pull-up option he can take advantage of the fact that he can get open on nearly anybody. Without it, well, he's still an upgrade on Critter, and adds rebounding & a willingness to pass as a change-up for Nick. Plus potential for defense, steals and blocks. Primary chemistry question though would still be unresolved in that he takes Gilbert off the ball since he doesn't do much without it himself. That worked alright with Larry (albeit in a different system) and this version of Gil may be fine with taking more outside shots while the youngster drives into traffic to draw all the hackers. Then Gil can turn up the heat on the Hibachi as needed to show him how it's done.

Eh. Like I said, at this point no matter what if we keep the pick we get a talent infusion. The bigger risks lie in getting a little too cute or desperate with trades. We'll have an upgraded team this year no matter what, and lesser pressure on Flip to get it all done at once. We still have mid-season to get a better chem mix for the system as he wants to see it run.
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Re: The What Should We Do With the 5th Pick II: IBJ Edition 

Post#431 » by WizStorm » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:05 pm

mhd wrote:Per Chad Ford, The Blazers are looking to try and get Rubio. They are talking to the Wiz. The Wiz are telling ANY teams that Etan MUST be included in any package. The Blazers want maximum cap space to sign Hedo.
I seriously doubt that the expiring contract of Etan is a make or break in any deal. The only way that it makes any sense for the Wizards to push that Etan is included in any deal is if they are trading with a team that has cap space and can absorb Etan's contract for immediate cap savings.
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Re: The What Should We Do With the 5th Pick II: IBJ Edition 

Post#432 » by LyricalRico » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:12 pm

doclinkin wrote:
Severn Hoos wrote:
doclinkin wrote:Nice footage from the SacKings PG workout.

Tyreke vs Curry vs Calathes vs Flynn vs Toney Douglas vs Paddy Mills. You can learn more about which players a team is interested in by what players don't show up in their highlights package. There's notably little of Tyreke in here despite reports saying he killed the workout.


On the one hand, it's kind of disappointing that we don't see more footage from the Wiz' workouts. Hmmm, come to think of it, who DID the Wiz showcase in their videos?

There was a lot of footage of Hill and DeRozan. By your theory (which I subscribe to), they're most likely not in serious consideration. There was some limited footage of Harden - could be they're downplaying the interest or how well they thought he did in the workout?

Curry got a lot of time in the Pointguardapalooza video. Does that mean that they're trying to make him look good to hide their interest elsewhere? They even included a clip of Steph going to the hole for a dunk.

But one guy had absolutely no footage on the website. There's a clip of the post-workout interview with Tyreke Evans, but no footage of the actual workout. As far as I can tell, he's the only one who didn't have his workout video posted. Could that be the sign that Tyreke is the first choice if they keep the pick?

Yep, I'm starting to think my prediction for the pick will be moving in Tyreke's direction.


He's definitely an Ernie-type pick, unmatched physical talent at a given position, thus gambling on upside and the ability to adjust. I've had to adjust my comfort level with his possible selection. I'm pretty much where you are in terms of draft strategy and fears.


I haven't been on the Evans bandwagon but I can see why Ernie would take him. They've already said that anybody they take wouldn't be in the rotation this year anyway. So why not take a guy with big upside if he's gonna sit for at least a year anyway?
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Re: The What Should We Do With the 5th Pick II: IBJ Edition 

Post#433 » by doclinkin » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:20 pm

Severn Hoos wrote:
doclinkin wrote:Nice footage from the SacKings PG workout.

Tyreke vs Curry vs Calathes vs Flynn vs Toney Douglas vs Paddy Mills. You can learn more about which players a team is interested in by what players don't show up in their highlights package. There's notably little of Tyreke in here despite reports saying he killed the workout.


On the one hand, it's kind of disappointing that we don't see more footage from the Wiz' workouts. Hmmm, come to think of it, who DID the Wiz showcase in their videos?

There was a lot of footage of Hill and DeRozan. By your theory (which I subscribe to), they're most likely not in serious consideration. There was some limited footage of Harden - could be they're downplaying the interest or how well they thought he did in the workout?

Curry got a lot of time in the Pointguardapalooza video. Does that mean that they're trying to make him look good to hide their interest elsewhere? They even included a clip of Steph going to the hole for a dunk.

But one guy had absolutely no footage on the website. There's a clip of the post-workout interview with Tyreke Evans, but no footage of the actual workout. As far as I can tell, he's the only one who didn't have his workout video posted. Could that be the sign that Tyreke is the first choice if they keep the pick?

Yep, I'm starting to think my prediction for the pick will be moving in Tyreke's direction.


Revisiting this post. Ernie apparently spent 20 minutes talking to Tyreke while he was on the training table. I'd bet the Curry footage was inducement for the rumored trades. Harden was a guy that Mike Jones said the front office told him they had 'no interest' in, because they didn't think he was athletic enough to play at the next level. So, I'd bet...

Harden
Tyreke
Trade Curry for the best deal
Draft Curry if nothing good materializes.
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Re: The What Should We Do With the 5th Pick II: IBJ Edition 

Post#434 » by Kanyewest » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:22 pm

keynote wrote:Chad Ford's latest "Free Insider" blog update has more on a POR/WAS deal centered around the #5/Etan Thomas in exchange for "young talent":

However, Sunday night, there was talk Pritchard has even grander plans. With point guard Ricky Rubio possibly slipping out of the top four, the Blazers are talking to the Wizards about acquiring the No. 5 pick. Pritchard has been on the hunt for a point guard, and Rubio would be a nice fit to round out the Blazers' collection of young, unselfish talents.

But trading for the No. 5 pick is far from a done deal, as the price would be high for the Blazers. The Wizards want any team interested in the No. 5 pick to take Etan Thomas off their hands -- a move that could eat into the Blazers' cap space this summer. The deal almost certainly would cost the Blazers some young talent, like Bayless, Travis Outlaw or Batum.


(It's "Free Insider," so I don't have to bother summarizing. :P )

I'm surprised Ford didn't mention Rudy in his list of Blazer young talent. Rudy's a much better fit for the Wizards than Travis Outlaw, no?


The appeal of adding Rubio is pairing with him with fellow countryman, Rudy Fernandez. The Blazers see Rudy as a better fit for them than Travis Outlaw.
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Re: The What Should We Do With the 5th Pick II: IBJ Edition 

Post#435 » by verbal8 » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:22 pm

WizStorm wrote:
mhd wrote:Per Chad Ford, The Blazers are looking to try and get Rubio. They are talking to the Wiz. The Wiz are telling ANY teams that Etan MUST be included in any package. The Blazers want maximum cap space to sign Hedo.
I seriously doubt that the expiring contract of Etan is a make or break in any deal. The only way that it makes any sense for the Wizards to push that Etan is included in any deal is if they are trading with a team that has cap space and can absorb Etan's contract for immediate cap savings.

Yeah I don't really get the need to dump Etan. Sure he helps if he can match up his contract to get some value in return. But if a deal does not materialize, he just expires at the end of the season.
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Re: The What Should We Do With the 5th Pick II: IBJ Edition 

Post#436 » by MJG » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:24 pm

LyricalRico wrote:I haven't been on the Evans bandwagon but I can see why Ernie would take him. They've already said that anybody they take wouldn't be in the rotation this year anyway. So why not take a guy with big upside if he's gonna sit for at least a year anyway?

This is nitpicky, but I thought what they said was that anybody we take wouldn't be in contention for a starting position. Granted, there may not be much room in the rotation regardless, but I don't remember it specifically being ruled out.
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Re: The What Should We Do With the 5th Pick II: IBJ Edition 

Post#437 » by Dat2U » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:25 pm

WizStorm wrote:
mhd wrote:Per Chad Ford, The Blazers are looking to try and get Rubio. They are talking to the Wiz. The Wiz are telling ANY teams that Etan MUST be included in any package. The Blazers want maximum cap space to sign Hedo.
I seriously doubt that the expiring contract of Etan is a make or break in any deal. The only way that it makes any sense for the Wizards to push that Etan is included in any deal is if they are trading with a team that has cap space and can absorb Etan's contract for immediate cap savings.


Agreed, it makes no sense for the Wizards to be so dead set on dumping Etan. I wonder if these columnists & hacks are just rehashing old news. Time changes everything, when Etan had 3 yrs left on his deal, I could understand the desire to do anything to dump his contract, as an expiring I no longer see the impetus to get rid of him at all costs. Unless u can get a better player on an expiring or add a quality player with a slightly longer contract, why force him upon other teams?
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Re: The What Should We Do With the 5th Pick II: IBJ Edition 

Post#438 » by DCZards » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:27 pm

doclinkin wrote:
He's definitely an Ernie-type pick, unmatched physical talent at a given position, thus gambling on upside and the ability to adjust. I've had to adjust my comfort level with his possible selection. I'm pretty much where you are in terms of draft strategy and fears.

Some of his weaknesses are the sort of thing that can be fixed. Not sure what to do about that jumper, you either rebuild it entirely or leave it alone. (The ugliest thing about it ain't the release, it's the sloppy fade-away one-legged kick from outside-- that's robbing him of range at the NBA three. That's prob'ly fixable though, just a bad habit). Whatever the jumper may always be inconsistent, streaky when guarded at the next level-- but either way his jumper isn't why you draft him, or not. Freshman turnovers are one stat that commonly drops over time, that's likely to get better no matter what.
One issue I have is more of a question mark. You draft him because of his first step, hesitation quicks, his ability to blow by his man and get a bucket. One problem that Tyreke will have to solve though: In the dribble drive motion offense, when the perimeter attacker is ready to make his move the Bigs get out of the paint and draw the defender with them. If you check his highlights for instnace Tyreke is constantly blowing past a defender to finish in the lane with a gentle lay-up-- no bigs anywhere in sight.


With a pull-up option he can take advantage of the fact that he can get open on nearly anybody. Without it, well, he's still an upgrade on Critter, and adds rebounding & a willingness to pass as a change-up for Nick. Plus potential for defense, steals and blocks. Primary chemistry question though would still be unresolved in that he takes Gilbert off the ball since he doesn't do much without it himself. That worked alright with Larry (albeit in a different system) and this version of Gil may be fine with taking more outside shots while the youngster drives into traffic to draw all the hackers. Then Gil can turn up the heat on the Hibachi as needed to show him how it's done.


I don't know, doc, it's sounding more and more like you're ready to climb aboard the "Draft Team Tyreke" bandwagon. :D You recognize his strengths as well as his shortcomings and it's obvious that the former outweigh the latter, imo. (Kudos for backing off the "turnover" paranoia and acknowledging that that's a stat that is certain to get better with experience.)

I assume Step is still your #1 choice and he's going to be a solid, maybe even special, pro as well. But with his physical makeup and ability to play 2, maybe 3, positions, Tyreke has the look of a potential star, if not a superstar.

However, as much as I hate to say it, Evan is probably gone at 4 to Sactown. So he likely won't even be an option for the Zards.
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Re: The What Should We Do With the 5th Pick II: IBJ Edition 

Post#439 » by tkunit » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:45 pm

With only a few days left I want to go on record and say Harden is my top choice for the 5th.




If he isn't there then I don't care I'd assume we trade it, but I'd keep rubio if he falls that agent can suck it.
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Re: The What Should We Do With the 5th Pick II: IBJ Edition 

Post#440 » by Severn Hoos » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:47 pm

doclinkin wrote:
Severn Hoos wrote:
doclinkin wrote:Nice footage from the SacKings PG workout.

Tyreke vs Curry vs Calathes vs Flynn vs Toney Douglas vs Paddy Mills. You can learn more about which players a team is interested in by what players don't show up in their highlights package. There's notably little of Tyreke in here despite reports saying he killed the workout.


On the one hand, it's kind of disappointing that we don't see more footage from the Wiz' workouts. Hmmm, come to think of it, who DID the Wiz showcase in their videos?

There was a lot of footage of Hill and DeRozan. By your theory (which I subscribe to), they're most likely not in serious consideration. There was some limited footage of Harden - could be they're downplaying the interest or how well they thought he did in the workout?

Curry got a lot of time in the Pointguardapalooza video. Does that mean that they're trying to make him look good to hide their interest elsewhere? They even included a clip of Steph going to the hole for a dunk.

But one guy had absolutely no footage on the website. There's a clip of the post-workout interview with Tyreke Evans, but no footage of the actual workout. As far as I can tell, he's the only one who didn't have his workout video posted. Could that be the sign that Tyreke is the first choice if they keep the pick?

Yep, I'm starting to think my prediction for the pick will be moving in Tyreke's direction.


Revisiting this post. Ernie apparently spent 20 minutes talking to Tyreke while he was on the training table. I'd bet the Curry footage was inducement for the rumored trades. Harden was a guy that Mike Jones said the front office told him they had 'no interest' in, because they didn't think he was athletic enough to play at the next level. So, I'd bet...

Harden
Tyreke
Trade Curry for the best deal
Draft Curry if nothing good materializes.


Hmm, I like all 4 of those options - provided that "the best deal" in #3 isn't something like Wilson Chandler or Michael Redd. And I'd probably put them in that order, too.

If your hunch is right, the only way we don't get a shot at either Harden or Evans is if they go #3 & #4, which would mean Rubio or Thabeet is there. Which would mean that some other teams (Portland, Minnesota) would have reason to up the ante.

Then again, what I would want from Portland is Rudy - who doesn't appear to be on the table - and from Minny, I'd either want Love (also not available) or some enticement to move down 1 slot. (Miller for Etan works quite nicely.) Actually, getting a 1-year rental on Miller would be great even if we did pick either Harden or Evans - gives them a year to get settled, while still having a starting-quality SG/swingman. And of course, Curry is a nice consolation prize behind door #4, no complaints there.

I remember the scuttlebutt over the workout where Pech supposedly dominated Hilton Armstrong. Ernie strongarmed (so to speak) the reporter into "correcting" his report, and I knew that meant that Pech would be the pick. Ernie may play it close to the vest, but the tea leaves are usually there for the reading. If he has put out the word that he's not interested in Harden, then you can be sure that Harden is in play. But I'm still thinking Evans is the most likely pick. 78 hours to go...
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