Official NBA Playoffs Thread

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Watching the Pacers struggling in game 6 against a short-handed Heat, I do not see Hibbert asserting himself. He and McGee were in the same draft and I remember wanting Hibbert (and DeAndre Jordan) more than Javale.

That said, just going by these playoffs, Javale is arguably better than Jordan (he was terrible against the Spurs) and as good as Hibbert (because McGee is much faster and can be a threat at either end in an uptempo game). Miami is taking it right at Hibbert now.

Roy is really good at holding position and he has good post moves and a good hook shot. However, he's not real quick or athletic. He doesn't run the court very well and he doesn't have a high motor. He's got a much stronger base than Javale, but McGee has a great deal more range and quickness than Roy.

I don't see a great deal of difference in the overall impacts of Jordan, McGee, or Hibbert.

[closg00]

Dagger at the buzzer, that could be it for the Pacers.

[queridiculo]

The Pacers are doing a far better job taking Hibbert out of the game than the Heat imho.

Time and time again I see them skip passes to the other side before Hibbert has a chance to establish proper position, or hold onto the ball when he's got his man pinned. It's amazing how few touches he has gotten considering that he presents the biggest mismatch.

[closg00]

The Pacers are doing a far better job taking Hibbert out of the game than the Heat imho.

Time and time again I see them skip passes to the other side before Hibbert has a chance to establish proper position, or hold onto the ball when he's got his man pinned. It's amazing how few touches he has gotten considering that he presents the biggest mismatch.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing, Hibbert SHOULD be destroying Miami in the paint. In the 1st quarter West was posting-up just about every time. Anthony has been playing pretty-good D though.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Okay, the Pacers are eliminated and they IMO went out soft.

Hibbert is a FA. I just said I don't think he's much better than Javale, but then again, would I like Roy at C for the Wizards?

I am not sure that I would with the Wizards running team. Thoughts?

[montestewart]

Okay, the Pacers are eliminated and they IMO went out soft.

Hibbert is a FA. I just said I don't think he's much better than Javale, but then again, would I like Roy at C for the Wizards?

I am not sure that I would with the Wizards running team. Thoughts?

I'm not saying that Seraphin has proven he's the long-term answer at center, but he's shown that he is more than initially thought, and given me good reason to hope for continued improvement. I wouldn't dismiss adding quality bigs (like, you know, Davis) but I'm much more concerned right now with what they do in getting good scorers and two way players at SG and SF, through the draft, trades and FAs. In the way you distinguished McGee and Hibbert, I'm not sure Hibbert is the best fit here, and other teams might find him more attractive and bid accordingly. Plus we'd really then have a logjam of bigs. He is good and contributed greatly to Indiana's improvement, even if they did "go soft." I think I'd be surprised if they let him go.

[Ruzious]

The Pacers are doing a far better job taking Hibbert out of the game than the Heat imho.

Time and time again I see them skip passes to the other side before Hibbert has a chance to establish proper position, or hold onto the ball when he's got his man pinned. It's amazing how few touches he has gotten considering that he presents the biggest mismatch.

Yeah, Indy needs a point guard if Hibbert's going to reach his potential. Collison is mediocre at best, and when Hill plays the point - it's a joke, because he doesn't even look to pass. If ya think SA really misses Hill like they said they do, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell to you. They were relying on West to feed Hibbert - and West is maybe the worst passer on their team. They need a guy like Nash. If he's their PG, and they actually go to Hibbert, Hibbert dominates. Bottom line - for better or for worse, a guy like Hibbert is always going to be limited by how his PG plays.

[closg00]

Good points guys^, the Pacers did go out soft and the Heat had to barely put-in a days work. The Pacers don't appear to have a leader on that team and there was no fire or passion to win...and they are not utilizing Hibbert's strengths, he was made a non-factor by his own team largely. Bird needs to get a dynamo PG who can make things happen.

[fishercob]

Indy didn't lose because of softness. Come on. They lost because they had crappy guard play, plain and simple -- especially at the point. As JVG pointed out, they have no one who can break a defense down of the dribble. Given that, it's sort of a wonder they even made it this far. Miami is a phenomenal defensive team; they fronted Hibbert, pressured the ball (remember, they have no one who can break their man down consistently) and had Lebron and Wade stalking the passing lanes.

As for Javale, if Indy had him in this series instead of Hibbert, they would have been swept.

[pancakes3]

I was baffled at the guard rotations by Indy. I felt that they overplayed the george's - paul and hill, and underplayed collison and barbosa/jones. i thought collison had been starting all year for them, then they yank him in favor of hill? and paul george is out of position, and young, but still play him ahead of a stead, defensive influence like barbossa or dahntay jones against wade? i don't think they would have been won the series, but at least they could have forced 7.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I disagree on Javale. I agree on poor guard play.

I think poor coaching had as much to do with Indy losing as anything else. A. J. Price, Jeff Pendergraph, and Kyrylo Fesenko are players that Frank Vogel didn't use this series. Price is a guard who plays good defense. I remember him from U Conn. He could have done much better than -25 in 19 minutes, which is what Darren Collison did. He wouldn't have turned it over as much as Barbosa. Pendergraph doesn't lack strength or athleticism. Seems to me that he's quicker than Hansbrough and at least should have got some minutes. Fesenko is huge. The Pacers needed to play big but they didn't. Hibbert was not that good in game 6. Perhaps the pace of the game was a factor.

I think Vogel's team played passively. The Pacers were really disappointing in the end.

[closg00]

Oh! and George was cold-shooting when they needed the opposite, he appeared to be affected by the ankle sprain.

[fishercob]

I disagree on Javale. I agree on poor guard play.

I think poor coaching had as much to do with Indy losing as anything else. A. J. Price, Jeff Pendergraph, and Kyrylo Fesenko are players that Frank Vogel didn't use this series. Price is a guard who plays good defense. I remember him from U Conn. He could have done much better than -25 in 19 minutes, which is what Darren Collison did. He wouldn't have turned it over as much as Barbosa. Pendergraph doesn't lack strength or athleticism. Seems to me that he's quicker than Hansbrough and at least should have got some minutes. Fesenko is huge. The Pacers needed to play big but they didn't. Hibbert was not that good in game 6. Perhaps the pace of the game was a factor.

I think Vogel's team played passively. The Pacers were really disappointing in the end.

It's always the coach's fault isn't it, my friend? AJ Price wouldn't have solved any of Indy's offensive problems. Indy just lost to a better team.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I disagree on Javale. I agree on poor guard play.

I think poor coaching had as much to do with Indy losing as anything else. A. J. Price, Jeff Pendergraph, and Kyrylo Fesenko are players that Frank Vogel didn't use this series. Price is a guard who plays good defense. I remember him from U Conn. He could have done much better than -25 in 19 minutes, which is what Darren Collison did. He wouldn't have turned it over as much as Barbosa. Pendergraph doesn't lack strength or athleticism. Seems to me that he's quicker than Hansbrough and at least should have got some minutes. Fesenko is huge. The Pacers needed to play big but they didn't. Hibbert was not that good in game 6. Perhaps the pace of the game was a factor.

I think Vogel's team played passively. The Pacers were really disappointing in the end.

It's always the coach's fault isn't it, my friend? AJ Price wouldn't have solved any of Indy's offensive problems. Indy just lost to a better team.

Indy's problems were too many turnovers, and that allowed Miami to get in transition. That got James and Wade going. Further, soft PG play let Chalmers score more than he should have.

Specifically, game 6 was the coach when you look at the success Indiana had going inside in quarter one, how Miami adjusted to the screens Indiana was setting and how the Heat forced many, many deflections and turnovers. Indiana stopped going inside. Darren Collison and Leandro Barbosa played too many very damaging minutes. Price could have helped their offensive problems just by not turning it over. Who cares if he didn't score. He is stronger than Collison and not as clueless as Barbosa played yesterday.

Vogel coached a crap game yesterday. David West was trying to play PG. Hibbert didn't get nearly enough shots. Vogel stayed with the same lineups instead of trying what I said above. They lost to a better team but not before they did the same dumb things with their bench in the third quarter as they had done with their bench in the second. Failure to adjust is on the coach IMO.

[Upper Decker]

Good points Fish, I came on to mention the same comment made by JVG about Indy's inability to breakdown a defense. In my estimation Indy is the worst 3rd seed playoff team in recent memory. If it wasn’t for Dwight’s phantom back injury they wouldn’t have made it out of the 1st round. They’re in a bad spot right now that Hibbert is up for a new contract. His true value is probably a 4/40 deal, but he’s likely to get the max, which will be the death nail for them going forward. While I’m piling on, I don’t get the fascination with Paul George. He’s the poster boy of jack of all trades, master of none. He’s this generations Derrick McKey, who was a good player, but unquestionably ordinary. The Wiz are a good draft and a good FA acquisition away from being better than Indy.

If Lebron and Wade play engaged and in sync like they have over the last three games I don’t see how they lose against OKC/SA.

If the Spurs end up winning the championship. That’d give Duncan five titles. He was the unquestioned alpha-dog for all of them. Sure he’s playing with two probable HoF’s, but Manu and Parker aren’t teammates like Magic/Jabbar, Parrish or McHale. If Duncan ends up winning another would he be considered the 3rd best player all time behind Jordan and Russell?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Good points Fish, I came on to mention the same comment made by JVG about Indy's inability to breakdown a defense. In my estimation Indy is the worst 3rd seed playoff team in recent memory. If it wasn’t for Dwight’s phantom back injury they wouldn’t have made it out of the 1st round. They’re in a bad spot right now that Hibbert is up for a new contract. His true value is probably a 4/40 deal, but he’s likely to get the max, which will be the death nail for them going forward. While I’m piling on, I don’t get the fascination with Paul George. He’s the poster boy of jack of all trades, master of none. He’s this generations Derrick McKey, who was a good player, but unquestionably ordinary. The Wiz are a good draft and a good FA acquisition away from being better than Indy.

If not for some incredibly bad performances by Wall against the Pacers, I think the Wizards aren't that far off from Indiana now. Their wing forwards hit too many perimeter jumpers and the Wizards didn't match them. Also, Hibbert had success even over Nene. Still, Washington is faster, more athletic, and capable of playing better defense than Indy.

If Lebron and Wade play engaged and in sync like they have over the last three games I don’t see how they lose against OKC/SA.

If the Spurs end up winning the championship. That’d give Duncan five titles. He was the unquestioned alpha-dog for all of them. Sure he’s playing with two probable HoF’s, but Manu and Parker aren’t teammates like Magic/Jabbar, Parrish or McHale. If Duncan ends up winning another would he be considered the 3rd best player all time behind Jordan and Russell?

I see how OKC would beat Miami. Harden and Ibaka are better than anyone else on the Heat, if Bosh cannot play at a high level in the Finals. Durant and Westbrook will go right at Wade and James and I think they're pretty close to as good. I think OKC has the athletes to beat Miami. I am not so sure about the Spurs, but I will take their team play over the Heat, too.

[closg00]

Indiana could have played better, they couldn't take advantage of Haslem being out, there was a little staleness to the coaching so I agree with CCJ on that part.

[Ruzious]

Coaching could have made some difference, but Indy played the right players, imo. They simply don't have the talent to beat a team with Lebron, Wade, and guys who can hit 3's. When Miller and Chalmers were hitting shots, it was pretty much over. And once Wade gets in a zone, good luck trying to stop him. Indy put up a good fight before running out of gas. I was rooting for Indy - for the Larry Bird factor, but until George takes a step up and they get a true PG, they're not going to beat Miami.

Oh, and Mike Greenberg of Mike & Mike should never talk about basketball again. Wow, he's clueless.

[Upper Decker]

Oh, and Mike Greenberg of Mike & Mike should never talk about ANYTHING EVER again. Wow, he's clueless.

Fixed

[pancakes3]

If Lebron and Wade play engaged and in sync like they have over the last three games I don’t see how they lose against OKC/SA.

very easily. as Fish said - penetrating PG's can/will shred them. Either Parker or Westbrook can pop off against the heat, either shooting double-digit FT's or letting their 3 point specialists to rain 3's down.