2014 Official FA Thread

[SunsFanSSOL]

SunsFanSSOL`s level of pessimism is off the charts.

Well, I am a Suns fan so in most cases it is sadly warranted.

[bwgood77]

Knowing the Suns this is the most likely outcome for our off-season: Re-sign Tucker to a 4 year $18m contract, let Bledsoe walk by not matching his offer sheet, sign some role players on short term contracts, and draft a guy way ahead of where he was projected to be drafted. Please prove me wrong, McDonough and don't follow in the path of your predecessors.

If the Suns want to let Bledsoe walk (in the case he costs too much), they should at least try to get Afflalo for him, particularly if Orlando gets top 3 and doesn't take a pg. We could also ask for Harkless, Harris or Vucevic depending on who they drafted. If they gave us Vucevic in the deal, we could give them Plumlee too.

Orlando

Bledsoe
Oladipo
Harkless or Wiggins
Harris or Parker
Vucevic or Embiid

They get one of those three rookies

Phoenix

Dragic/Smith
Afflalo/Green/Goodwin
Tucker/Harkless or Harris/Morris
Frye/Morris
Vucevic/Plumlee//Len

[JDLAW]

SunsFanSSOL`s level of pessimism is off the charts.

Well, I am a Suns fan so in most cases it is sadly warranted.

If this hopelessness is how you view this franchise, why are you a fan? There are 29 other teams out there. I am sure you could find one to feel optimistic about.

[JDLAW]

Knowing the Suns this is the most likely outcome for our off-season: Re-sign Tucker to a 4 year $18m contract, let Bledsoe walk by not matching his offer sheet, sign some role players on short term contracts, and draft a guy way ahead of where he was projected to be drafted. Please prove me wrong, McDonough and don't follow in the path of your predecessors.

If the Suns want to let Bledsoe walk (in the case he costs too much), they should at least try to get Afflalo for him, particularly if Orlando gets top 3 and doesn't take a pg. We could also ask for Harkless, Harris or Vucevic depending on who they drafted. If they gave us Vucevic in the deal, we could give them Plumlee too.

Orlando

Bledsoe
Oladipo
Harkless or Wiggins
Harris or Parker
Vucevic or Embiid

They get one of those three rookies

Phoenix

Dragic/Smith
Afflalo/Green/Goodwin
Tucker/Harkless or Harris/Morris
Frye/Morris
Vucevic/Plumlee//Len

Please stop with this non-sense. Dealing with an RFA seldom turns into a "blockbuster" trade.

To make the hypothetical deal you speak of, Orlando would have to have the cap room and would have to be willing to sign Bledsoe who in turn would have be willing to go to Orlando and willing to sign an offer sheet with the Magic. I can conceive of no rational reason that Orlando would give up core players from the roster plus a huge salary to Bledsoe when they can simply sign him. I can conceive of no rational reason the Suns would accept anything off the Orlando roster for Bledsoe except Oladipo.

[bwgood77]

Knowing the Suns this is the most likely outcome for our off-season: Re-sign Tucker to a 4 year $18m contract, let Bledsoe walk by not matching his offer sheet, sign some role players on short term contracts, and draft a guy way ahead of where he was projected to be drafted. Please prove me wrong, McDonough and don't follow in the path of your predecessors.

If the Suns want to let Bledsoe walk (in the case he costs too much), they should at least try to get Afflalo for him, particularly if Orlando gets top 3 and doesn't take a pg. We could also ask for Harkless, Harris or Vucevic depending on who they drafted. If they gave us Vucevic in the deal, we could give them Plumlee too.

Orlando

Bledsoe
Oladipo
Harkless or Wiggins
Harris or Parker
Vucevic or Embiid

They get one of those three rookies

Phoenix

Dragic/Smith
Afflalo/Green/Goodwin
Tucker/Harkless or Harris/Morris
Frye/Morris
Vucevic/Plumlee//Len

Please stop with this non-sense. Dealing with an RFA seldom turns into a "blockbuster" trade.

To make the hypothetical deal you speak of, Orlando would have to have the cap room and would have to be willing to sign Bledsoe who in turn would have be willing to go to Orlando and willing to sign an offer sheet with the Magic. I can conceive of no rational reason that Orlando would give up core players from the roster plus a huge salary to Bledsoe when they can simply sign him. I can conceive of no rational reason the Suns would accept anything off the Orlando roster for Bledsoe except Oladipo.

Well it happened with Joe Johnson. IF Orlando offers Bledsoe a verbal max, and McD doesn't think it's worth matching, but doesn't want to lose him for nothing, he can ask for whatever he wants. Orlando has zero leverage. They may offer Afflalo (given that they have Oladipo and would be getting Bledsoe) and McD may think he'd rather pay Bledsoe the max than have Afflalo and not another young piece.

So McD says that is simply not enough. If Orlando wins the lottery and takes Embiid, Vucevic is expendable, and McD would know this. He may say "you throw in Vucevic, and we give you Plumlee". Or, if they take Wiggins or Parker, one of their small forwards is easily expendable.

What if McDonough doesn't want to pay the max to a guy who has had two knee surgeries but doesn't want to let him go for nothing? He has all the leverage.

This is a huge hypothetical in that it requires Orlando to get a top three pick (and right now if everything played out according to record, they'd get the third pick). They drastically need a young pg, have tons of cap space so they can receive a player in a S&T. It also would have to be a max offer or close to it, which might not be the case, but Orlando doesn't really have any big contracts.

I don't see what you feel is so inconceivable about this hypothetical. Perhaps you want to pay Bledsoe the max and think McD would do so as well. Perhaps you think McD would let him walk for nothing. Perhaps you don't think Orlando wants a young PG. Perhaps you think they'd take Exum or Smart over Parker/Embiid/Wiggins. I'm not sure what it is. But whichever it is, I disagree.

Now, my guess is that Bledsoe is NOT offered the max and if he is offered less, we match. Or perhaps he just wants to stay regardless and agrees to a reasonable deal with us.
But this hypothetical trade is far from "nonsense". You say they can simply sign Bledsoe. No, they can't just "simply sign him". They can't simply sign him because he can be matched and I doubt McD would let him walk without getting anything back.

[JDLAW]

They can simply sign him and dare you to match - just like we did with Gordon, just like Houston did with M Gasol and Portland did with Hibbert, just like Minnesota did with Batum, etc.... All were matched. There are very few RFAs that change teams, Johnson was an exception and his situation was unique in that the Suns were up against financial pressures of having 3 max players if they had matched Johnson and another expensive player in Nash. Johnson also made it abundantly clear that he did not want to be in Phx because he was disrespected by the organization and the staff who had unofficially designated him to the 4th option in the offense.

We see none of the same dynamics with Bledsoe. There is plenty of cap room and room below the Lux Tax. We paid virtually nothing for him. You do not let a player with star potential like Bledsoe go for the likes of Harkless, Harris or Afflalo none of whom have star potential. We already have plenty of comparable players to these.

[DirtyDez]

I think we can stop with the Bledsoe-getting-max talk. More like 4 years/40-45m...

The Suns could probably get Dragic for less than 4/50 and they combine for 25m a year tops which is nothing for a top-3 backcourt. The Suns would still have plenty of cap space for Love/Aldridge. Role players like the twins/Frye can be replaced by rookies. It's the stars that count.

[bwgood77]

I think we can stop with the Bledsoe-getting-max talk. More like 4 years/40-45m...

The Suns could probably get Dragic for less than 4/50 and they combine for 25m a year tops which is nothing for a top-3 backcourt. The Suns would still have plenty of cap space for Love/Aldridge. Role players like the twins/Frye can be replaced by rookies. It's the stars that count.

I hope you are right. I really can't see anyone giving him the max except possibly Orlando, if they really want him and upgrade in the draft at a position that isn't pg.

[bwgood77]

You do not let a player with star potential like Bledsoe go for the likes of Harkless, Harris or Afflalo none of whom have star potential. We already have plenty of comparable players to these.

I guess you may rate Bledsoe a little higher than me and Afflalo and Vucevic a little (or perhaps a lot) lower than I do. But if you think Bledsoe is that star player, it doesn't make total sense that you don't think Orlando would give their (what you called) "core" players up for him if you don't think much of those players.

[JDLAW]

You do not let a player with star potential like Bledsoe go for the likes of Harkless, Harris or Afflalo none of whom have star potential. We already have plenty of comparable players to these.

I guess you may rate Bledsoe a little higher than me and Afflalo and Vucevic a little (or perhaps a lot) lower than I do. But if you think Bledsoe is that star player, it doesn't make total sense that you don't think Orlando would give their (what you called) "core" players up for him if you don't think much of those players.

I do rate him considerably higher than Afflalo and Vucevic, taking them on in exchange for Bledsoe would be 1-2 steps backwards. I do not see Afflao being a significant improvement over G. Green who makes half of what Afflalo makes and Vucevic is a nice player, but his ceiling is not high enough to make me walk away from Bledsoe especially since we have young developing centers with ceilings that are likely equivalent to him.

We'll disagree, but I seen nothing on the MAgic other than Oladipo that I would swap for Bledsoe. Orlando is mostly bereft of talent and is building, it cannot afford to give up solid players for a high priced star or potential star it needs to add talent as opposed to swap. More importantly they cannot afford to overspend for any player, which they would have to do significantly to make the Suns flinch about matching an offer for Bledsoe.

[bwgood77]

Interesting thoughts. Especially the overspending part. I do agree that Bledsoe is better than those players. I'm just not sure he is worth over $14 million as opposed to having both of those guys for under $9.5 million, especially since we already have Dragic.

However, it just occurred to me that Orlando, in addition to their own pick has one coming from Denver, so it's very possible they could get Ennis with that pick if they don't end up with Smart or Exum with their first pick, which is good.

The best thing about Bledsoe becoming a restricted free agent is that the league seems to be flush with good point guards now, and few of the rebuilding teams would likely be happy to go with rookies. Then Lowry and Rondo could be on the market as well.

And I don't think the Lakers would want to give Bledsoe a big offer since they need a frontcourt, but they don't seem to be real smart with their money.

[JDLAW]

Interesting thoughts. Especially the overspending part. I do agree that Bledsoe is better than those players. I'm just not sure he is worth over $14 million as opposed to having both of those guys for under $9.5 million, especially since we already have Dragic.

However, it just occurred to me that Orlando, in addition to their own pick has one coming from Denver, so it's very possible they could get Ennis with that pick if they don't end up with Smart or Exum with their first pick, which is good.

The best thing about Bledsoe becoming a restricted free agent is that the league seems to be flush with good point guards now, and few of the rebuilding teams would likely be happy to go with rookies. Then Lowry and Rondo could be on the market as well.

And I don't think the Lakers would want to give Bledsoe a big offer since they need a frontcourt, but they don't seem to be real smart with their money.

I think they will draft a point guard if they do not get one of the first two picks. Orlando is just getting out of nearly a decade of huge payroll obligation (they are still paying Arenas $22M this year) and I do not see them ponying up $62M for the next 4 years of Bledsoe. I think they would much prefer a backcourt on rookie deals.

As for the Lakers - I do not see them going after Bledsoe. It is a risky proposition, if the Suns let him walk, it makes it difficult for Lakers to pursue Love the next year.

[jcsunsfan]

Of course you can do that type of deal for a RFA. The home team has huge options. Its just a matter of how bad Orlando would want Bledsoe. Are they willing to pay big bucks AND give up assets for him? The Suns were not willing to do that with Eric Gordon (of course, they did not have much in the way of assets to give up at the time). But to me, letting Bledsoe go is a mistake for the following reasons.

1. For some reason, this team is completely different defensively when Bledsoe is playing--way better. His pressure on the wings seems to make a difference on the opposition and energize his teammates.
2. He has an uncanny ability to get to the FT line. For a team that really wants to compete, they need a guy like that.
3. Miles Plumlee turns into a legit starter when Bledsoe is on the court.
4. Without Bledsoe taking some of the pressure, Goran is going to break down.
5. Players with that kind of two-way impact are very rare. He is a star, I am convinced of it, and I would not be afraid to pay him like it.

My only concern is the knee, but its not like he had microfracture.

[JMac1]

Of course you can do that type of deal for a RFA. The home team has huge options. Its just a matter of how bad Orlando would want Bledsoe. Are they willing to pay big bucks AND give up assets for him? The Suns were not willing to do that with Eric Gordon (of course, they did not have much in the way of assets to give up at the time). But to me, letting Bledsoe go is a mistake for the following reasons.

1. For some reason, this team is completely different defensively when Bledsoe is playing--way better. His pressure on the wings seems to make a difference on the opposition and energize his teammates.
2. He has an uncanny ability to get to the FT line. For a team that really wants to compete, they need a guy like that.
3. Miles Plumlee turns into a legit starter when Bledsoe is on the court.
4. Without Bledsoe taking some of the pressure, Goran is going to break down.
5. Players with that kind of two-way impact are very rare. He is a star, I am convinced of it, and I would not be afraid to pay him like it.

My only concern is the knee, but its not like he had microfracture.

Don't worry about his knee; worry about his shot and lack of propensity to takeover a game. He isn't a star until he displays that in the next three weeks. I was at no time thinking we were unstoppable on offense the last few games with him on the court late.

He and Goran kept passing the ball to Kief in the post like he was Shaq or something. I'm not giving him more the 10 bills a year at this juncture. He has to show me some KJ!

[bwgood77]

Of course you can do that type of deal for a RFA. The home team has huge options. Its just a matter of how bad Orlando would want Bledsoe. Are they willing to pay big bucks AND give up assets for him? The Suns were not willing to do that with Eric Gordon (of course, they did not have much in the way of assets to give up at the time). But to me, letting Bledsoe go is a mistake for the following reasons.

1. For some reason, this team is completely different defensively when Bledsoe is playing--way better. His pressure on the wings seems to make a difference on the opposition and energize his teammates.
2. He has an uncanny ability to get to the FT line. For a team that really wants to compete, they need a guy like that.
3. Miles Plumlee turns into a legit starter when Bledsoe is on the court.
4. Without Bledsoe taking some of the pressure, Goran is going to break down.
5. Players with that kind of two-way impact are very rare. He is a star, I am convinced of it, and I would not be afraid to pay him like it.

My only concern is the knee, but its not like he had microfracture.

Don't worry about his knee; worry about his shot and lack of propensity to takeover a game. He isn't a star until he displays that in the next three weeks. I was at no time thinking we were unstoppable on offense the last few games with him on the court late.

He and Goran kept passing the ball to Kief in the post like he was Shaq or something. I'm not giving him more the 10 bills a year at this juncture. He has to show me some KJ!

Yeah, he hasn't earned anywhere near a max contract. I'm surprised people call him a star or future star at this juncture. He's a solid player, and this is his first year starting and playing a big role. He really shouldn't be getting Curry or Lawson money yet.

[JDLAW]

Of course you can do that type of deal for a RFA. The home team has huge options. Its just a matter of how bad Orlando would want Bledsoe. Are they willing to pay big bucks AND give up assets for him? The Suns were not willing to do that with Eric Gordon (of course, they did not have much in the way of assets to give up at the time). But to me, letting Bledsoe go is a mistake for the following reasons.

1. For some reason, this team is completely different defensively when Bledsoe is playing--way better. His pressure on the wings seems to make a difference on the opposition and energize his teammates.
2. He has an uncanny ability to get to the FT line. For a team that really wants to compete, they need a guy like that.
3. Miles Plumlee turns into a legit starter when Bledsoe is on the court.
4. Without Bledsoe taking some of the pressure, Goran is going to break down.
5. Players with that kind of two-way impact are very rare. He is a star, I am convinced of it, and I would not be afraid to pay him like it.

My only concern is the knee, but its not like he had microfracture.

Don't worry about his knee; worry about his shot and lack of propensity to takeover a game. He isn't a star until he displays that in the next three weeks. I was at no time thinking we were unstoppable on offense the last few games with him on the court late.

He and Goran kept passing the ball to Kief in the post like he was Shaq or something. I'm not giving him more the 10 bills a year at this juncture. He has to show me some KJ!

It is not up to you. He does not have to prove anything to you - neither you nor I are in this equation. Long ago I stopped worrying about what he is going to get paid.

[JDLAW]

Of course you can do that type of deal for a RFA. The home team has huge options. Its just a matter of how bad Orlando would want Bledsoe. Are they willing to pay big bucks AND give up assets for him? The Suns were not willing to do that with Eric Gordon (of course, they did not have much in the way of assets to give up at the time). But to me, letting Bledsoe go is a mistake for the following reasons.

1. For some reason, this team is completely different defensively when Bledsoe is playing--way better. His pressure on the wings seems to make a difference on the opposition and energize his teammates.
2. He has an uncanny ability to get to the FT line. For a team that really wants to compete, they need a guy like that.
3. Miles Plumlee turns into a legit starter when Bledsoe is on the court.
4. Without Bledsoe taking some of the pressure, Goran is going to break down.
5. Players with that kind of two-way impact are very rare. He is a star, I am convinced of it, and I would not be afraid to pay him like it.

My only concern is the knee, but its not like he had microfracture.

Don't worry about his knee; worry about his shot and lack of propensity to takeover a game. He isn't a star until he displays that in the next three weeks. I was at no time thinking we were unstoppable on offense the last few games with him on the court late.

He and Goran kept passing the ball to Kief in the post like he was Shaq or something. I'm not giving him more the 10 bills a year at this juncture. He has to show me some KJ!

Yeah, he hasn't earned anywhere near a max contract. I'm surprised people call him a star or future star at this juncture. He's a solid player, and this is his first year starting and playing a big role. He really shouldn't be getting Curry or Lawson money yet.

I think he will get Curry or Lawson money (possibly more) and I am not worried about it. How much he gets paid is not something you or I have a say in. I do not think I have ever been worried about how much he gets paid. My concern is not what what if any team offers him because I think the Suns will match. My concern is when such an offer is made if one is because it is one of the moments where his cap hold ($6.8M) will be considerably below his market value and the Suns will have more opportunities to explore the free agent market, especially if they are considering a marquee name.

[JMac1]

It is not up to you. He does not have to prove anything to you - neither you nor I are in this equation. Long ago I stopped worrying about what he is going to get paid.

If I haven't seen it, the Suns personnel sure hasn't seen it.....so they are definitely not going to pay him just because!! No it's not up to me, but I trust my assessments and I believe the Suns see what I see and every last other person with eyes.

Bledsoe has NEVER took over a game and made you say "damn, that dude is unstoppable." NEVER!! To get a max, you have to show that once in a while, no? His career high is 28 points

[Ryu]

Bledsoe`s impact on the game is much bigger than points only. He is an active defender, has a terrific first step, can finish at the rim with ease even through contact (and make FT`s) and, which surprised me the most this season, he can succesfully run the point.

I also like his mid-range jumper while 3-point shooting needs to be respected by the opponent (even though that`s the area which needs to be improved a little bit).

[JDLAW]

It is not up to you. He does not have to prove anything to you - neither you nor I are in this equation. Long ago I stopped worrying about what he is going to get paid.

If I haven't seen it, the Suns personnel sure hasn't seen it.....so they are definitely not going to pay him just because!! No it's not up to me, but I trust my assessments and I believe the Suns see what I see and every last other person with eyes.

Bledsoe has NEVER took over a game and made you say "damn, that dude is unstoppable." NEVER!! To get a max, you have to show that once in a while, no? His career high is 28 points

You can attempt to argue that the Suns are thinking like you and they observe what you do. I do not buy it. And I doubt the Suns who see Bledsoe at practice, workouts, and watch hours of film to assess and evaluate him, which is far more than you'll ever see, agree with you. There is a reason they do what they do and you do whatever it is you do. They will pay him what they need to in order to retain his services with or without your approval.