ImageImageImageImageImage

OFFICIAL: Welcome BACK to New York THJr (4/71m)

Moderators: j4remi, HerSports85, NoLayupRule, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23, Deeeez Knicks, mpharris36

User avatar
moocow007
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 98,252
And1: 25,708
Joined: Jan 07, 2002
Location: In front of the computer, where else?
       

Re: OFFICIAL: Welcome BACK to New York THJr (4/71m) 

Post#441 » by moocow007 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:44 pm

fatalogic wrote:I think people are underestimating how bad things are for the Knicks from a contract negotiations stand point. They have no leverage outside of money. Any agent whose client is approached by them must see dollar signs as soon as the Knicks call. I think the Knicks should have walked away but I understand how they came to that number. Note everything below is from the perspective of THJ representation

1. If I'm Tim's agent I don't even pick up the phone unless we start negotiations at $60 million.
- NY does this because they figure the hawks will match anything in the 50-55 range and they don't know what other offers I have.

2. They traded my client away so I need assurances they are not trying to use me in another move. Also the previous POBO basically stated that THJ was a "Non learner", negatively effecting his standing in the league.
-Enter the trade kicker

3. The Knicks are a rebuilding situation but so are the Hawks. However the Hawks have a much better coaching and player development environment as shown by THJ improvement in all aspects of his game. THJ needs flexibility if the Knicks prove to be the same old Knicks there were when he was here the first time.

4. There is obvious roster/coaching/FO instability.
-tack on 5 mill

5. Having to deal with NY media and fans. Tim likes ATL as a city.
-tack on another 5 mil

Due to their own incompetence the Knicks have no leverage over any players they want to sign. This is why we need to build through the draft. Until they create a stable environment and have some positive reasons to come here, agents and players will continue to take them to the cleaners in negotiations.


That or perhaps the rumors are true...Steve Mills is just not a good GM.
User avatar
moocow007
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 98,252
And1: 25,708
Joined: Jan 07, 2002
Location: In front of the computer, where else?
       

Re: OFFICIAL: Welcome BACK to New York THJr (4/71m) 

Post#442 » by moocow007 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:45 pm

HKSVIP wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
JM88 wrote:
50 would be a good, and fair contract if he was unrestricted. Restricted cost a little more, and 60 would be the most i would be comfortable with. I do understand, and can accept this 71 million offer though. I just think it is a number that projects what he can become, which is risky. What i dislike the most is actually the trade kicker, player option, and payment-structure, because it increases the risk, limits his value - and shoudn't have been necessary to include.


4 years 56. That's 14 per. That's even a slight reach but I could stomach that.

OK, great! Now, who would you like to add to the team at the remaining 4 million dollars we have if that was the case?


I'd have gone with the "above market rate" of 4 years $60 million (with no silly trade kicker or that silly front loaded annual salary payment structure). It's highly, highly, highly dubious that the in transition Hawks would want to lock $35-38 million (what they would have had to pay Hardaway and Bazemore combined the next 3 seasons) into one position. That would have been more than enough to get him IMO. The reality is that in 4 years Hardaway has shown that he may be worth 4 years $60 million in just one-half of those years.
Crunchknicks1
Pro Prospect
Posts: 828
And1: 200
Joined: May 25, 2017

Re: OFFICIAL: Welcome BACK to New York THJr (4/71m) 

Post#443 » by Crunchknicks1 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:56 pm

What time is his press conference??
User avatar
Deeeez Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 49,326
And1: 55,308
Joined: Nov 12, 2004

Re: OFFICIAL: Welcome BACK to New York THJr (4/71m) 

Post#444 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:07 pm

I would not have went after Hardaway at all. It was a really bad idea. Restricted free agents usually are. Anything reasonable and the Hawks would match.

We didn't even need an offensive SG nor to spend all that money right now.

Just gonna get worse from here
Mavs
C: Horford | Goga | Paul Reed |
PF: Lauri Markkanen | Randle | Tucker
SF: Trey Murphy | Trent | Anderson | Simone
SG: Vassell | Trent | Livingston
PG: Spida | Mann | Deuce
User avatar
dakomish23
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 58,788
And1: 48,762
Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Location: Empire State
     

Re: OFFICIAL: Welcome BACK to New York THJr (4/71m) 

Post#445 » by dakomish23 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:09 pm

HKSVIP wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
JM88 wrote:
50 would be a good, and fair contract if he was unrestricted. Restricted cost a little more, and 60 would be the most i would be comfortable with. I do understand, and can accept this 71 million offer though. I just think it is a number that projects what he can become, which is risky. What i dislike the most is actually the trade kicker, player option, and payment-structure, because it increases the risk, limits his value - and shoudn't have been necessary to include.


4 years 56. That's 14 per. That's even a slight reach but I could stomach that.

OK, great! Now, who would you like to add to the team at the remaining 4 million dollars we have if that was the case?


Keep it till 2019/2020. Take some flyers on younger guys on the cheap or facitlate some smaller deals.

Just because you have it doesn't mean you have to use it on players for your roster.
Jimmit79 wrote:Yea RJ played well he was definitely the x factor


#FreeJimmit
User avatar
dakomish23
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 58,788
And1: 48,762
Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Location: Empire State
     

Re: OFFICIAL: Welcome BACK to New York THJr (4/71m) 

Post#446 » by dakomish23 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:11 pm

moocow007 wrote:
DowNY wrote:This deal will look much better in 2 years when all those high profile free agents re-sign with their teams for those massive contracts.


It still would be a bad contract regardless of who else signs where for what and when. Any contract that is excessive when it's signed is excessive. Even if Tim Hardaway Jr turns out to be Tim Hardaway Sr. the contract, based on what he's done, was excessive and all around silly.


In a nutshell
Jimmit79 wrote:Yea RJ played well he was definitely the x factor


#FreeJimmit
BasicBall
RealGM
Posts: 11,172
And1: 448
Joined: Jul 18, 2003
Location: Harlem USA

Re: OFFICIAL: Welcome BACK to New York THJr (4/71m) 

Post#447 » by BasicBall » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:14 pm

moocow007 wrote:
BasicBall wrote:I don't like the money, but it aint MY money. I do know the kid has put in the work and goes hard. And IF he told Melo in a game to get a rebound as reported in his first Knicks stint, I'm totally here for it!


This is from a guy that grabbed 1.8 rebounds per himself during Knicks stint. Yeah, I'm not sure if I'd buy it if someone like that told me to go grab rebound. :lol:


True, but for him to say that, again, I am here for it. Is he worth that loot? Nah, but it ain't my money!
Don't raise your voice, improve your argument :nod:
Knicks Byke
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,886
And1: 4,908
Joined: Aug 11, 2015
   

Re: OFFICIAL: Welcome BACK to New York THJr (4/71m) 

Post#448 » by Knicks Byke » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:15 pm

Crunchknicks1 wrote:What time is his press conference??


thats today?
User avatar
Jalen Bluntson
RealGM
Posts: 25,468
And1: 27,156
Joined: Nov 07, 2012
       

Re: OFFICIAL: Welcome BACK to New York THJr (4/71m) 

Post#449 » by Jalen Bluntson » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:18 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
DowNY wrote:This deal will look much better in 2 years when all those high profile free agents re-sign with their teams for those massive contracts.


It still would be a bad contract regardless of who else signs where for what and when. Any contract that is excessive when it's signed is excessive. Even if Tim Hardaway Jr turns out to be Tim Hardaway Sr. the contract, based on what he's done, was excessive and all around silly.


In a nutshell


Wrong. If he turns into Sr., that contract is genius.
:beer: RIP mags
BasicBall
RealGM
Posts: 11,172
And1: 448
Joined: Jul 18, 2003
Location: Harlem USA

Re: OFFICIAL: Welcome BACK to New York THJr (4/71m) 

Post#450 » by BasicBall » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:18 pm

Ray Williams wrote:
BasicBall wrote:I don't like the money, but it aint MY money. I do know the kid has put in the work and goes hard. And IF he told Melo in a game to get a rebound as reported in his first Knicks stint, I'm totally here for it!


https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-carmelo-anthony-told-tim-hardaway-jr-hed-beat-him-up/amp/


Look, I know the kid didn't play defense and shot too damn much. But he was on a playoff team and comes back having actually played in meaningful games. He'll likely still shoot too much, but he's young and can grow. It's time NY took this route and got younger.
Don't raise your voice, improve your argument :nod:
User avatar
HKSVIP
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,368
And1: 107
Joined: Jun 22, 2006

Re: OFFICIAL: Welcome BACK to New York THJr (4/71m) 

Post#451 » by HKSVIP » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:27 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
HKSVIP wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
4 years 56. That's 14 per. That's even a slight reach but I could stomach that.

OK, great! Now, who would you like to add to the team at the remaining 4 million dollars we have if that was the case?


Keep it till 2019/2020. Take some flyers on younger guys on the cheap or facitlate some smaller deals.

Just because you have it doesn't mean you have to use it on players for your roster.

Don't think a player making 4 million will net you a pick in a dump. Nor will it allow you to sign a young significant role player in free agency.
User avatar
F N 11
RealGM
Posts: 95,283
And1: 68,058
Joined: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Getting over screens with Gusto.
Contact:
 

Re: OFFICIAL: Welcome BACK to New York THJr (4/71m) 

Post#452 » by F N 11 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:29 pm

When is the presser? Im also tired of hearing yall B and moan about how much Tim is making. It's the new norm stars are making 40 million and average players are making 15-25. Just stfu about it already. James Johnson just got 60 million F'in dollars. James Johnson folks. Just stop crying about the money.

Nobody is talking about his game improving. Just a bunch of moaning about how much he is being paid.
CEO of the not trading RJ Club
Knicks Byke
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,886
And1: 4,908
Joined: Aug 11, 2015
   

Re: OFFICIAL: Welcome BACK to New York THJr (4/71m) 

Post#453 » by Knicks Byke » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:31 pm

K P 6 wrote:When is the presser? Im also tired of hearing yall B and moan about how much Tim is making. Is the new Norm stars are making 40 million and average players are making 15-25. Just stfu about it already.


**** out here pocket watching. let mans get his money **** it.
User avatar
F N 11
RealGM
Posts: 95,283
And1: 68,058
Joined: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Getting over screens with Gusto.
Contact:
 

Re: OFFICIAL: Welcome BACK to New York THJr (4/71m) 

Post#454 » by F N 11 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:36 pm

Otto Porter got 26.5. I dont hear anybody saying anything. Yall just going to have to stop pocket watching and get it through your head that today's NBA teams with the new CBA are paying people.
CEO of the not trading RJ Club
User avatar
god shammgod
RealGM
Posts: 138,595
And1: 137,451
Joined: Feb 18, 2006

Re: OFFICIAL: Welcome BACK to New York THJr (4/71m) 

Post#455 » by god shammgod » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:38 pm

i said all those deals suck. over and over.
prolific96
Junior
Posts: 380
And1: 118
Joined: Apr 30, 2009

Re: OFFICIAL: Welcome BACK to New York THJr (4/71m) 

Post#456 » by prolific96 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:51 pm

HKSVIP wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
HKSVIP wrote:OK, great! Now, who would you like to add to the team at the remaining 4 million dollars we have if that was the case?


Keep it till 2019/2020. Take some flyers on younger guys on the cheap or facitlate some smaller deals.

Just because you have it doesn't mean you have to use it on players for your roster.

Don't think a player making 4 million will net you a pick in a dump. Nor will it allow you to sign a young significant role player in free agency.


You're right. 4 mill doesn't get you much but suppose you move Melo or Lee. When you combine the 4 million with another move it can make the difference between getting your player or not.
Crunchknicks1
Pro Prospect
Posts: 828
And1: 200
Joined: May 25, 2017

Re: OFFICIAL: Welcome BACK to New York THJr (4/71m) 

Post#457 » by Crunchknicks1 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:54 pm

Lol moving people for Rondo really
User avatar
King of Canada
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 17,265
And1: 13,011
Joined: Nov 03, 2005
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
 

Re: OFFICIAL: Welcome BACK to New York THJr (4/71m) 

Post#458 » by King of Canada » Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:00 pm

I'm holding out hope that he performs well for us along side KP, who HOPEFULLY has a breakout year.
BAF Pacers

F. Campazzo/ J. Clarkson/ K. Lewis Jr
D. Mitchell/ J. Richardson/S. Merrill
Luka/Melo
Zion/Gay/Gabriel
KAT/Kabengele

F. Mason, Jontay, J. Harris

RIP mags :beer:
shtolky
Head Coach
Posts: 6,160
And1: 4,729
Joined: Apr 15, 2005

Re: OFFICIAL: Welcome BACK to New York THJr (4/71m) 

Post#459 » by shtolky » Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:02 pm

moocow007 wrote:
DowNY wrote:This deal will look much better in 2 years when all those high profile free agents re-sign with their teams for those massive contracts.


It still would be a bad contract regardless of who else signs where for what and when. Any contract that is excessive when it's signed is excessive. Even if Tim Hardaway Jr turns out to be Tim Hardaway Sr. the contract, based on what he's done, was excessive and all around silly.



Wait, what? Unless I am misunderstanding you, you're saying that because the contract can be perceived as excessive now, that it will always be excessive no matter how he turns out? Correct me if I am misunderstanding, but the contract can include his production up to this point PLUS what we think he could become. If he becomes THJ, Sr. (or any all star type player) as you said, is the contract then not a steal?
prolific96
Junior
Posts: 380
And1: 118
Joined: Apr 30, 2009

Re: OFFICIAL: Welcome BACK to New York THJr (4/71m) 

Post#460 » by prolific96 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:03 pm

K P 6 wrote:Otto Porter got 26.5. I dont hear anybody saying anything. Yall ust going to have to stop pocket watching and get it through your head that today's NBA teams with the new CBA are paying people.



Definitely saw some posts killing the Nets for signing porter to a huge offer sheet. But with that said, Porter is 2 years younger and was a starter the last two seasons. Otto is a much more talented and versatile player and its not even close.

Return to New York Knicks