PG: Scottie overwhelms Celtics

[Mikistan]

Watching Boston stream, something they said stood out: "Feels like Toronto has 6 defenders out there".

Something else that's happened through both games now is how Raps get a high number of offensive boards and still limit opponent fast breaks.

That's what it feels like when refs call an even game

[Madhouse]

Precious plays way out of control but he is a walking double double and only in his 2nd year. Once he refines his skills and can really put the ball on the floor and shoot the 3, he will be really tough to defend.

This is now every Precious game he has played 25 minutes or more in his career:
17/13
10/11
8/11
23/10
15/15

[HiJiNX]

Lost in all the well deserved Scottie hype is how well the Montreal connection played together. Birch and Boucher had some real synergy out there.

Yeah I love this pairing so far and hope we keep going to it.

[grimlock]

As an aside...my lawd Alvin Williams was so painful to listen to it almost made me miss Leo; ALMOST.

Nick Kypreos Was a train wreck as a analyst when he first started. Same with jimmy fallon.. get some reps and he’ll be fine.

[Dennis 37]

yeah you laugh because you have nothing to say and don't knowxwhat you're talking about... what are you gonna even argue against what I said? You think og has a scorers game and can create offense for himself consistently? Again you're absolutely wrong.

I've made statements 3 years ago regarding specific player's games that I caught flack for...

I literally got warned for "trolling" because I complained about fvv for the same flaws most people are finally seeing now, when most of the board was still on his nuts... now you have posters saying that the board has an anti Fred problem...

I said ogs potential was more a 3 and d role player possible Shawn Marion type, and that siakam had more overall potential than him because of siakams natural ability and fluidity... again to a lot of anger for putting such limitations on a potential star...

For years I said norman Powell deserved a bigger role on the team because of his skillset and that he was being neutered and should be developed more, again with the majority of the board telling me hecsucked couldn't finish in traffic etc ... then 2 years ago eith a consistent role he makes a big leap and then last year, the first time he was consistently a starter due to injuries he blows up...

I said demar needed to be traded in order for us to take the next step because we had all the right pieces around a star but were building around the wrong star...

You guys can all come at me ill trust my player assessments...

People need to let go of things. I have only one person blocked and I have seen, via quoted posts, that that person is making more sense. so I am going to let it go and unblock him. Too many people react to a username. Stop that. Just read what it says.

Boogie's point about Norm is spot on. To develop Norm more quickly he had to have more opportunities than he got. While Fred and Kyle shone in many games, we all know that against taller teams there were games when they struggled. Norm needed to start those games, or at least subbed in when it was clear two short PGs were not getting it done. When we hear criticism about the 2 PG starting lineup that's exactly where this comes from. We had a player, stuck on the bench, who would have provided another look and who was too often not used.

GTJ is like Norm in that he has shown, in a small sample size, that he does much better as a starter. We don't have Kyle, and we owe nothing to Goran. There is no reason, while Pascal is out, for GTJ not to be starting.

[Indeed]

Barnes' offense inside the 3 point line looks a lot more polished than advertised

The mid-range was a bit of surprised, but the rest is pretty much the same when I posted it on the draft thread.
He might struggles against more physical big on his vertical, but we are playing him at SF, and against the Boston 6'6 guards, which definitely we put him to success.

This is why I think Siakam will be the key. Opposing teams are either able to guard Siakam or Barnes with Achiuwa and Birch spacing the floor at C. Both of them can easily bully in or post up against any 6'7 SF. Furthermore, we shall how Boucher sprint out and Barnes able to pass him the ball, that will also translate with Siakam on transition or immediately get a mis-match in the post.

The biggest question is the OG bench lineup, who we should pair with OG to provide better offense. I wonder if it would be Banton and VanVleet that would pair him better.

[Indeed]

Watching Boston stream, something they said stood out: "Feels like Toronto has 6 defenders out there".

Something else that's happened through both games now is how Raps get a high number of offensive boards and still limit opponent fast breaks.

That's what it feels like when refs call an even game

I have to admit the refs favour us after the bias Wizards game. We got a lot of bailout calls for OG.
But same as the Wizards game, I don't think the refs are the difference maker. This game, we clearly beat them on the offensive glass and physicality, we got almost 40% of offensive rebound!

[Jadoogar]

Suggs
Game 1: 3-14
Game 2: 4-17

That's rough.

suggs will be fine.

no need for raps fans to keep putting the kid down. he ended up in a **** situation in orlando. no rookie would have succeeded there.

Yea the magic are so terrible, it's going to be hard to evaluate Suggs for a while. Barnes wouldn't be putting up great numbers with the awful supporting cast the magic have

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[Boardbreaker]

We've always been a better team when Fred shoots less. Only 10 FGA and an easy win. Coaches need to restrain him from chucking somehow.

Pretty much this. We’ll win more games with Fred putting up 10 shots than we will with him putting up 20.

[Jadoogar]

Not a fan of how the media likes to give credit to one guy. The team played great defence and out hustled the Celtics all night if there ever was a team win that was it.

Lol look at this thread title, how can you blame "the media"?

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[johanliebert]

Not a fan of how the media likes to give credit to one guy. The team played great defence and out hustled the Celtics all night if there ever was a team win that was it.

Lol look at this thread title, how can you blame "the media"?

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Lol

[johanliebert]

I dont get too high or low on OG.
To me his fluidity and craftiness is just not at the level it takes to be a premier wing player, he has rehearsed moves but no counters in real-time.

He can however be an integral piece on any contender due to his elite defensive tools and complementary scoring without needing the ball in his hands ala Shawn Marion.

The latter is the truth but many were lambasted here for pointing that out this off season.

There was a sequence in game one where he tried to trap a defender on his hip and side step father into a pull up. You can tell he’s done a few drills with skill trainers but he has no situational awareness. I think there’s a middle ground between his current role and being a complimentary piece.

[WuTang_CMB]

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[gbball]

I wouldn't worry about OG too much, he will get going.

He probably isn't a top 2 player on an elite team and he might not ever be a true bluechip player but he will get out of this slump and play much better soon.

He is in a more uncomfortable role right now but it will improve his game.

I am not sure if it is the new role or the offseason "level up."

I honestly hate the offseason work that these guys do sometimes. They come into the new year trying to do too much because they expanded their handle or learned some creative ways to get their shot off.

OG's strength is his strength. The kid is 245 lbs at least and he should be bullying his way to the rim, not trying to do Harden stepbacks. Let Barnes and Siakam handle the ball a bit and OG do his work inside a bit more. The jumper will come, but he has to get back to basics.

Og been trying. He is bullying people. In fact he’s so physical that he’s literally running into them and pushing them with his off hand.

That’s the problem though. He just doesnt have the savvy or composure or coordination to really finish in the paint consistently. He’s strong when he can gather and go up with two hands. But he’s telegraphed in his movements. It’s easy to see what he’s gonna do he has no craftiness or touch inside, every time I see him go up I know it’s getting blocked or it’s a brick.

But you’re right he shouldn’t be trying harden setbacks consistently either. So where does that leave him? Catch and shoot 3s, cutting, putbacks, maybe the occasional drive downhill off a handoff. But I just don’t trust his awareness. He’s a bull in a China shop… he’ll either bulldoze right through you or just run into you and force up an awkward shot and get blocked.

You're right about OG, but I'm good with the Raptors giving him some rope here to figure things out. He's way outside of his comfort zone this year and it shows. He's a specialist and will likely continue to thrive in that role. Currently his defense is his bread and butter. His 3pt shot is also normally reliable, but even last year he had some cold stretches. Now he's trying to implement an iso game and a midrange pull up which he showed flashes of last season, and even more this preseason.

I think it's going to take time and maybe a year or two for him to really get comfortable there because he just doesn't have a great feel for the game. Like I said, he's a specialist and I think he can have success in iso situations from the perimeter and the post, but he's got to learn when and how. Right now, he thinks he should be able to score whenever he wants in any situation based on the work he's put in, but he doesn't do a great job of reading and reacting to what the defense is doing in real-time. It could be nerves or something else, but his game looks very premeditated. DeRozan went through some of this too as he built up his ball skills in his first few years. The difference being that Derozan had better body control around the rim and OG is a better shooter.

Kahwi is actually a pretty good comp for OG in that they are very specialized in certain aspects of the game and when they go off-script they look like they've never touched a basketball before...Looking extremely awkward. But both will go back to the lab and see if they can figure out how to prepare for those situations in the future. A key difference in the way OG is being brought along versus Kahwi is that Pop gave Kahwi a very specific role when he was in the game, while OG is currently out there freelancing and it's not looking that great. He'll be fine and we'll see more iso scoring from him this year than last as he learns to pick his spots and gets more comfortable in the role. All that being said, I see him succeeding as a specialized 3, D, and Iso scorer like Joe Johnson in his Pheonix Suns days. Like when the team offense isn't working and you need a bucket, give him a clear out on the perimeter or in the post and let him go to work.

[WuTang_CMB]

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[aminiaturebuddha]

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A great non-Scottie part of the first play in that clip is how Trent sprinted to his corner as soon as Toronto had the rebound, even though he was initially coming from the other side of the court. Him and Boucher getting to their spots quickly is what created the confusion for Tatum, as the only man back, as to who he should guard. And then Scottie's great pass came so quickly Tatum didn't even have a chance to choose.

Just a great play by Scottie, obviously, but also great hustle by Trent and Boucher.

[Lord Eder]

Man there is a lot of talent on this roster. If Fred and Pascal can provide the veteran champion experience and even just a couple of the kids develop to their full potential or near to it then this team is gonna be something sooner than later. It’s a good group of players from top to bottom

[KO7]

Well, yesterday was a ton of fun - Woke up feeling so hyped about last night’s game. Need to *maybe* temper expectations today for the second of the back-to-back.

If you had told me a year ago that the Raptors would be figuratively tearing a full strength Celtics team a new one on their home floor, without Kyle and Pascal, and with OG and FVV shooting horribly? I’d look at you like you were growing a second head.

[gbball]

lol just looked at the boxscore. Banton with 2 assists in 3 minutes

Banton, Flynn, Johnson, and Champagnie will get a lot of time with the 905 this year...some of them will probably do double duty...end of bench with the Raptors and main guys for the 905.

I'm legitimately just as excited to see what they'll look like down there as I am to watch our main guys.

[Indeed]

I dont get too high or low on OG.
To me his fluidity and craftiness is just not at the level it takes to be a premier wing player, he has rehearsed moves but no counters in real-time.

He can however be an integral piece on any contender due to his elite defensive tools and complementary scoring without needing the ball in his hands ala Shawn Marion.

The latter is the truth but many were lambasted here for pointing that out this off season.

There was a sequence in game one where he tried to trap a defender on his hip and side step father into a pull up. You can tell he’s done a few drills with skill trainers but he has no situational awareness. I think there’s a middle ground between his current role and being a complimentary piece.

And I think more experience he gets, he will slowly improve that.
If our focus is winning, I might prefer him to get his shots when we are leading. Probably the start of 2nd quarter or 4th quarter when we got a lead.