Bulls trade Alex Caruso to OKC for Josh Giddey

[Muzbar]

Giddey up!!! Ayo Silver, awaaaaaay!!!!!

...and now I hate Duck.

I'm actually Stacey King and I'm definitely going to use this thanks to Duck.

You're just trying to get unbanishified...

[Dan Z]

Giddey's value was lower, but so was caruso's since he's in a contract year. Okc isn't getting caruso for a cheap next contract like we did.

As far as those gms reactions, it's okc that set what they wanted to trade. Okc only got so many picks because they valued them so much, so i doubt other gms realize yet how hard it may be to pry picks from them. My guess is those gms would have "lost" their trades if they were in akme's position.

OKC could say no to adding picks and the Bulls could say no to doing the trade without them.

I've said this before, but I don't think AK values picks so he probably didn't even ask for them.

Yeah I am sure he didn't ask for any picks...

What makes you think that he did?

HomoSapien made a post in this thread that around the league people were surprised that the Bulls didn't get picks in this trade (specifically Bobby Marks said he texted two GM's about it).

And yet no picks are part of the trade.

I also say that he doesn't value picks because he put poor protects on every one that he's traded for traded for. The DDR sign and trade (why give up a first round pick for him?), the Vucevic trade (why not protect the first pick just in case things don't work out?), and the Markkanen trade (why trade him for a pick that's protected so much that it may never convey except as a 2nd round pick?).

On top of that he's said that he never wants to pick that high again (in reference to the #4 pick which was PW).

[ThisGuyFawkes]

AKME seem to value taller guys with playmaking skills (vision, passing). Picks like PWill and Terry fit the description except Giddey doesn't have the defensive (2-way) trait. I guess rebounding could be a defensive trait. It's all about possessions.

I think many people forget that AKME completely flipped the roster 3 seasons ago. He built a really good team that was derailed by one major injury.

I don't know that he'll do it again but I kinda like the idea of Giddey/Ayo/White/PWill/Terry and some 3pt specialists along with a defensive center.

That lineup seems to have a lot of ball movement with good slashers, lots of size, defensive versatility, and rebounding. Like I can see the vision, but it's not quite there yet.

I'll hold off on judgement until the start of next season. Maybe we can trade Lavine to fill some of those roles. Although I think Lavine functions better on a quicker pass-friendly team sans DDR.

The Pacers were all offense with no defense and that worked pretty well for them. While I'm not saying we have a Haliburton, Siakam, or Turner, I think we could produce a lot of that offense while still having a top-half defense. We've had a solid defense while starting DDR and Vuc. Maybe it's a system thing.

Basically I think this is a move in the right direction and a few more pieces could make this very interesting. I want to see those additional moves before I pass judgement on the 24-25 Bulls.

[Dan Z]

Giddey's value was lower, but so was caruso's since he's in a contract year. Okc isn't getting caruso for a cheap next contract like we did.

As far as those gms reactions, it's okc that set what they wanted to trade. Okc only got so many picks because they valued them so much, so i doubt other gms realize yet how hard it may be to pry picks from them. My guess is those gms would have "lost" their trades if they were in akme's position.

OKC could say no to adding picks and the Bulls could say no to doing the trade without them.

I've said this before, but I don't think AK values picks so he probably didn't even ask for them.

He's pretty much said as much, but even if he did try to get picks, threatened to end trade talks, i don't think we'd get more than 1 or 2 second round picks.

1 or 2 second round picks would be okay with me. It's better than no picks. Keep in mind the Bulls owe four future 2nd round picks to other teams (2024-2027). I know 2nd round picks have limited value, but at a certain point it's good to replenish them. Having a 2nd round pick is how the Bulls got one of their better players (Ayo).

[Axl Rose]

The time to trade Caruso was 2 deadlines ago. We waited until the 11th hour and still made out pretty well IMO. If we held out any longer i think we ran the risk of getting absolutely nothing.

[chicago paxsons]

OKC could say no to adding picks and the Bulls could say no to doing the trade without them.

I've said this before, but I don't think AK values picks so he probably didn't even ask for them.

He's pretty much said as much, but even if he did try to get picks, threatened to end trade talks, i don't think we'd get more than 1 or 2 second round picks.

1 or 2 second round picks would be okay with me. It's better than no picks. Keep in mind the Bulls owe four future 2nd round picks to other teams (2024-2027). I know 2nd round picks have limited value, but at a certain point it's good to replenish them. Having a 2nd round pick is how the Bulls got one of their better players (Ayo).

I don't disagree, very much the opposite, but considering how much okc has valued acquiring picks, i think people expecting okc to give up picks are underestimating how much okc actually value their picks.

If anything, that makes okc a poor trade partner when trying to get picks, but even when including the players in this draft, i think giddey is one of the better young players in the league to trade for, especially since his value is lower than it used to be.

[GuardianEnzo]

Most triple-doubles in NBA history through age 21:

1. Magic Johnson
2. Luka Doncic
3. Josh Giddey

[Dan Z]

He's pretty much said as much, but even if he did try to get picks, threatened to end trade talks, i don't think we'd get more than 1 or 2 second round picks.

1 or 2 second round picks would be okay with me. It's better than no picks. Keep in mind the Bulls owe four future 2nd round picks to other teams (2024-2027). I know 2nd round picks have limited value, but at a certain point it's good to replenish them. Having a 2nd round pick is how the Bulls got one of their better players (Ayo).

I don't disagree, very much the opposite, but considering how much okc has valued acquiring picks, i think people expecting okc to give up picks are underestimating how much okc actually value their picks.

If anything, that makes okc a poor trade partner when trying to get picks, but even when including the players in this draft, i think giddey is one of the better young players in the league to trade for, especially since his value is lower than it used to be.

That's true, but just because Presti acquires picks doesn't mean he won't trade them for the right deal.

If the Bulls asked for a protected first (say 1-20) or two 2nd round picks do you think Presti walks away? Perhaps, but I think the Bulls should've been willing to walk away too.

Giddey is okay, but he's not someone that I think will turn the Bulls around on his own (not that anyone expects that). I also think Caruso had value around the league and if a trade with OKC couldn't be worked out then they could look elsewhere.

[Johnston797]

This tweet is just so damn pointless, it literally means nothing.

Giddey has improved his 3 point percentage every year in the league, he's gone up 7.4% over his 3 years in the league.

26.3% 1st year
32.5% 2nd year
33.7% 3rd year

In his rookie year, Josh was shooting movement 3's. Not well, but tough, tough shots. He took better shots his sophmore year and really mostly took wide open 3's this last year. It's not clear his 3pter has improved at all despite working with the best shooting coach in the businessness.

P.s. if you want to look on the brightside, his FT% has improved.

[chicago paxsons]

1 or 2 second round picks would be okay with me. It's better than no picks. Keep in mind the Bulls owe four future 2nd round picks to other teams (2024-2027). I know 2nd round picks have limited value, but at a certain point it's good to replenish them. Having a 2nd round pick is how the Bulls got one of their better players (Ayo).

I don't disagree, very much the opposite, but considering how much okc has valued acquiring picks, i think people expecting okc to give up picks are underestimating how much okc actually value their picks.

If anything, that makes okc a poor trade partner when trying to get picks, but even when including the players in this draft, i think giddey is one of the better young players in the league to trade for, especially since his value is lower than it used to be.

That's true, but just because Presti acquires picks doesn't mean he won't trade them for the right deal.

If the Bulls asked for a protected first (say 1-20) or two 2nd round picks do you think Presti walks away? Perhaps, but I think the Bulls should've been willing to walk away too.

Giddey is okay, but he's not someone that I think will turn the Bulls around on his own (not that anyone expects that). I also think Caruso had value around the league and if a trade with OKC couldn't be worked out then they could look elsewhere.

The problem is the walking away part. Yes we would have found someone else to trade caruso with, but we don't know what they would have offered. The reports of teams willing to trade multiple picks for caruso were from last year, so that market may have changed.

If every trade offer for caruso came to light, i wouldn't be surprised if the most teams were offering were a young prospect or a first round lottery pick.

I know ak is known for bidding against himself, but that's for players he really likes, like vuc. I don't know if ak had blinders for giddey, but i'd be surprised if he did since giddey is still young and isn't like derozan (former star), or vuc (former pseudo-star).

Based on this trade, i think bulls fans are having a hard time accepting that caruso's trade value isn't anywhere near what they expected.

What fans expect gms to value isn't necessarily what they will value.

[dumbell78]

Overwhelming majority of thoughts on the net that I have read so far agree that OKC not sending any draft capitol was a clear loss for us. I get AC is a free agent after next year but there must have been a dozen teams lined up to trade for him.

[Dan Z]

I don't disagree, very much the opposite, but considering how much okc has valued acquiring picks, i think people expecting okc to give up picks are underestimating how much okc actually value their picks.

If anything, that makes okc a poor trade partner when trying to get picks, but even when including the players in this draft, i think giddey is one of the better young players in the league to trade for, especially since his value is lower than it used to be.

That's true, but just because Presti acquires picks doesn't mean he won't trade them for the right deal.

If the Bulls asked for a protected first (say 1-20) or two 2nd round picks do you think Presti walks away? Perhaps, but I think the Bulls should've been willing to walk away too.

Giddey is okay, but he's not someone that I think will turn the Bulls around on his own (not that anyone expects that). I also think Caruso had value around the league and if a trade with OKC couldn't be worked out then they could look elsewhere.

The problem is the walking away part. Yes we would have found someone else to trade caruso with, but we don't know what they would have offered. The reports of teams willing to trade multiple picks for caruso were from last year, so that market may have changed.

If every trade offer for caruso came to light, i wouldn't be surprised if the most teams were offering were a young prospect or a first round lottery pick.

I know ak is known for bidding against himself, but that's for players he really likes, like vuc. I don't know if ak had blinders for giddey, but i'd be surprised if he did since giddey is still young and isn't like derozan (former star), or vuc (former pseudo-star).

Based on this trade, i think bulls fans are having a hard time accepting that caruso's trade value isn't anywhere near what they expected.

What fans expect gms to value isn't necessarily what they will value.

I agree that AK probably didn't have blinders on for Giddey and I also agree that Caruso's trade value around here was probably inflated (and not reality...someone else made a post about that recently...I think it was Duck...?).

My two cents is that AK should've played hardball with Presti and ask for a pick or two (like I said it didn't have to be a high pick or anything like that). But I also say that because if the Bulls didn't get Giddey I think they could've got something else of value from another team.

Playing hardball (or whatever you want to call it) is why both Presti and Ainge have been good GM's. I want the Bulls to have a good GM too.

[samwana]

Read on Twitter

A 19 year old should be in jail for dating a 17 year old? People are insane.

It's the truth, way over the too. They are probably about the same in development, because girls are ahead at that age. And you don't see how old these girls are, impossible.

[RSP83]

I think the elephant in the room here is Giddey and his image related to his past dating controversy. Will he be able to shake it off? I honestly don't think much of it, this is not a Karl Malone situation. I feel the negatives energy he gets from everybody is really setting him up for failure. I didn't care about that when he was in OKC, now I do.

I don't like this trade. But since it's already happen I hope for the best from our players.

[chicago paxsons]

That's true, but just because Presti acquires picks doesn't mean he won't trade them for the right deal.

If the Bulls asked for a protected first (say 1-20) or two 2nd round picks do you think Presti walks away? Perhaps, but I think the Bulls should've been willing to walk away too.

Giddey is okay, but he's not someone that I think will turn the Bulls around on his own (not that anyone expects that). I also think Caruso had value around the league and if a trade with OKC couldn't be worked out then they could look elsewhere.

The problem is the walking away part. Yes we would have found someone else to trade caruso with, but we don't know what they would have offered. The reports of teams willing to trade multiple picks for caruso were from last year, so that market may have changed.

If every trade offer for caruso came to light, i wouldn't be surprised if the most teams were offering were a young prospect or a first round lottery pick.

I know ak is known for bidding against himself, but that's for players he really likes, like vuc. I don't know if ak had blinders for giddey, but i'd be surprised if he did since giddey is still young and isn't like derozan (former star), or vuc (former pseudo-star).

Based on this trade, i think bulls fans are having a hard time accepting that caruso's trade value isn't anywhere near what they expected.

What fans expect gms to value isn't necessarily what they will value.

I agree that AK probably didn't have blinders on for Giddey and I also agree that Caruso's trade value around here was probably inflated (and not reality...someone else made a post about that recently...I think it was Duck...?).

My two cents is that AK should've played hardball with Presti and ask for a pick or two (like I said it didn't have to be a high pick or anything like that). But I also say that because if the Bulls didn't get Giddey I think they could've got something else of value from another team.

Playing hardball (or whatever you want to call it) is why both Presti and Ainge have been good GM's. I want the Bulls to have a good GM too.

Me too, but we have akme. I just don't think akme failed as badly as has been stated, or at all, this time. At worse, they disappointed by not completely "winning" the trade, but i think no matter who we traded caruso for, it would be seen as a loss since whoever we got back would be worse than caruso in the short term.

[Dan Z]

The problem is the walking away part. Yes we would have found someone else to trade caruso with, but we don't know what they would have offered. The reports of teams willing to trade multiple picks for caruso were from last year, so that market may have changed.

If every trade offer for caruso came to light, i wouldn't be surprised if the most teams were offering were a young prospect or a first round lottery pick.

I know ak is known for bidding against himself, but that's for players he really likes, like vuc. I don't know if ak had blinders for giddey, but i'd be surprised if he did since giddey is still young and isn't like derozan (former star), or vuc (former pseudo-star).

Based on this trade, i think bulls fans are having a hard time accepting that caruso's trade value isn't anywhere near what they expected.

What fans expect gms to value isn't necessarily what they will value.

I agree that AK probably didn't have blinders on for Giddey and I also agree that Caruso's trade value around here was probably inflated (and not reality...someone else made a post about that recently...I think it was Duck...?).

My two cents is that AK should've played hardball with Presti and ask for a pick or two (like I said it didn't have to be a high pick or anything like that). But I also say that because if the Bulls didn't get Giddey I think they could've got something else of value from another team.

Playing hardball (or whatever you want to call it) is why both Presti and Ainge have been good GM's. I want the Bulls to have a good GM too.

Me too, but we have akme. I just don't think akme failed as badly as has been stated, or at all, this time. At worse, they disappointed by not completely "winning" the trade, but i think no matter who we traded caruso for, it would be seen as a loss since whoever we got back would be worse than caruso in the short term.

I agree and don't think AKME "lost" this trade.

I'd just prefer if they got picks instead of Giddey because I'd rather take a chance on the unknown and build for the future. But that's just my two cents. This trade isn't bad.

[RSP83]

Sigh ... at least we're getting back a high IQ player who has potential to be a solid starter in this league. The lack of picks is a let down though, especially when you know that offer was on the table.

[Dan Z]

Sigh ... at least we're getting back a high IQ player who has potential to be a solid starter in this league. The lack of picks is a let down though, especially when you know that offer was on the table.

We have no idea what offers were on the table.

But if Presti offered Giddey or the #12 pick (not both) which one would you choose?

[HomoSapien]

He's pretty much said as much, but even if he did try to get picks, threatened to end trade talks, i don't think we'd get more than 1 or 2 second round picks.

1 or 2 second round picks would be okay with me. It's better than no picks. Keep in mind the Bulls owe four future 2nd round picks to other teams (2024-2027). I know 2nd round picks have limited value, but at a certain point it's good to replenish them. Having a 2nd round pick is how the Bulls got one of their better players (Ayo).

I don't disagree, very much the opposite, but considering how much okc has valued acquiring picks, i think people expecting okc to give up picks are underestimating how much okc actually value their picks.

If anything, that makes okc a poor trade partner when trying to get picks, but even when including the players in this draft, i think giddey is one of the better young players in the league to trade for, especially since his value is lower than it used to be.

Oklahoma City has 37 picks. It’s going to be very hard to hang on to that many picks given that they already have many long term pieces. I

[Jeffster81]

Overpay for Vuc, under sold Caruso. Does AKME hate working for the Bulls? Because their commitment to not wanting to win is elite.

Now DDR will walk and AKME can trade Lavine for a couple of cheeseburgers.