Shams: Patrick Williams to sign 5/90 deal

[dougthonus]

Ok in a yr or two he will be making the mid level exp type money as these things go up. Either way too remember he didn't have a off season as he was healing from his foot. So this struggle for me is expected. I will hold judgement though fully by dec/jan. Bec by then he should be able to get his shot into some sort of form. IF he can stay healthy that is. But I'm not here to protect him and I fully understand everyone's frustration with him...

I believe he wouldn't be making MLE money until year 5 of his deal, which is a player option, which will only get executed if he can't get a better deal as a free agent.

Not that it really matters, the MLE is somewhat of a red herring. His deal will become less relative to the cap as time goes on. Didn't look through all the teams, but glanced through half, and 18M is effectively on aggregate like 4th-5th man money. There are some teams he'd be the 3rd highest paid guy and some he'd be the 6th).

Is Pat Williams good enough to be the 4th or 5th best player on a great team? Probably not right now, but it's not so hard to see him getting there. He needs to score efficiently and play good defense, and done. Those aren't massive improvements from what he's been able to show in the past.

[HomoSapien]

Pat could be worth his contract if he becomes more consistent but he'll never be worth it if he keeps sucking for the first few months of each season only to eventually have a season ending injury once he actually plays well.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Dude is a bust. Straight up. He’s a bench role player.

Jalen Smith should be starting instead of Williams.

[Ballerkingn23]

Ok in a yr or two he will be making the mid level exp type money as these things go up. Either way too remember he didn't have a off season as he was healing from his foot. So this struggle for me is expected. I will hold judgement though fully by dec/jan. Bec by then he should be able to get his shot into some sort of form. IF he can stay healthy that is. But I'm not here to protect him and I fully understand everyone's frustration with him...

I believe he wouldn't be making MLE money until year 5 of his deal, which is a player option, which will only get executed if he can't get a better deal as a free agent.

Not that it really matters, the MLE is somewhat of a red herring. His deal will become less relative to the cap as time goes on. Didn't look through all the teams, but glanced through half, and 18M is effectively on aggregate like 4th-5th man money. There are some teams he'd be the 3rd highest paid guy and some he'd be the 6th).

Is Pat Williams good enough to be the 4th or 5th best player on a great team? Probably not right now, but it's not so hard to see him getting there. He needs to score efficiently and play good defense, and done. Those aren't massive improvements from what he's been able to show in the past.

So to sum it up 18 million isn't that bad of a rate for what he can provide.

Either way I'm not upset at this deal for him and think it can be a steal once his shot comes to form and if we ever start featuring the kid. How often does plays be ran for him usually never, so we can't fully see what he can do imo.. Time will tell if this will change as the season goes on.

[Jcool0]

Ok in a yr or two he will be making the mid level exp type money as these things go up. Either way too remember he didn't have a off season as he was healing from his foot. So this struggle for me is expected. I will hold judgement though fully by dec/jan. Bec by then he should be able to get his shot into some sort of form. IF he can stay healthy that is. But I'm not here to protect him and I fully understand everyone's frustration with him...

I believe he wouldn't be making MLE money until year 5 of his deal, which is a player option, which will only get executed if he can't get a better deal as a free agent.

Not that it really matters, the MLE is somewhat of a red herring. His deal will become less relative to the cap as time goes on. Didn't look through all the teams, but glanced through half, and 18M is effectively on aggregate like 4th-5th man money. There are some teams he'd be the 3rd highest paid guy and some he'd be the 6th).

Is Pat Williams good enough to be the 4th or 5th best player on a great team? Probably not right now, but it's not so hard to see him getting there. He needs to score efficiently and play good defense, and done. Those aren't massive improvements from what he's been able to show in the past.

So to sum it up 18 million isn't that bad of a rate for what he can provide.

Either way I'm not upset at this deal for him and think it can be a steal once his shot comes to form and if we ever start featuring the kid. How often does plays be ran for him usually never, so we can't fully see what he can do imo.. Time will tell if this will change as the season goes on.

Problem is he is who he is. A guy who plays passable D sometimes and can hit 40% of his threes on just under 5 attempts. Does that have a place in the NBA? sure when teams wants to take 40+ 3s a game. Is that a 5th starter? Not in my book. And not someone Bulls still need to be gifting minutes to.

[dougthonus]

So to sum it up 18 million isn't that bad of a rate for what he can provide.

It's not a bad deal for what he can provide in theory but doesn't provide presently.

[panthermark]

Ok in a yr or two he will be making the mid level exp type money as these things go up. Either way too remember he didn't have a off season as he was healing from his foot. So this struggle for me is expected. I will hold judgement though fully by dec/jan. Bec by then he should be able to get his shot into some sort of form. IF he can stay healthy that is. But I'm not here to protect him and I fully understand everyone's frustration with him...

I believe he wouldn't be making MLE money until year 5 of his deal, which is a player option, which will only get executed if he can't get a better deal as a free agent.

Not that it really matters, the MLE is somewhat of a red herring. His deal will become less relative to the cap as time goes on. Didn't look through all the teams, but glanced through half, and 18M is effectively on aggregate like 4th-5th man money. There are some teams he'd be the 3rd highest paid guy and some he'd be the 6th).

Is Pat Williams good enough to be the 4th or 5th best player on a great team? Probably not right now, but it's not so hard to see him getting there. He needs to score efficiently and play good defense, and done. Those aren't massive improvements from what he's been able to show in the past.

So to sum it up 18 million isn't that bad of a rate for what he can provide.

Either way I'm not upset at this deal for him and think it can be a steal once his shot comes to form and if we ever start featuring the kid. How often does plays be ran for him usually never, so we can't fully see what he can do imo.. Time will tell if this will change as the season goes on.

There is almost nothing about his game that says feature him. If you were to list out the top 10 traits of someone you should feature, he only has about 2 of them.

He can't dribble
He can't facilitate
He does not get to the line
He is not quick enough to be used to run people through screens (like Rip or Reggie)
He does not have a quick release
He does not have a post game
He cannot get his own shot


When on, he is an efficient low volume, low minute, complimentary player.
It would be like trying the feature prime Robert Horry or something.

[sco]

I believe he wouldn't be making MLE money until year 5 of his deal, which is a player option, which will only get executed if he can't get a better deal as a free agent.

Not that it really matters, the MLE is somewhat of a red herring. His deal will become less relative to the cap as time goes on. Didn't look through all the teams, but glanced through half, and 18M is effectively on aggregate like 4th-5th man money. There are some teams he'd be the 3rd highest paid guy and some he'd be the 6th).

Is Pat Williams good enough to be the 4th or 5th best player on a great team? Probably not right now, but it's not so hard to see him getting there. He needs to score efficiently and play good defense, and done. Those aren't massive improvements from what he's been able to show in the past.

So to sum it up 18 million isn't that bad of a rate for what he can provide.

Either way I'm not upset at this deal for him and think it can be a steal once his shot comes to form and if we ever start featuring the kid. How often does plays be ran for him usually never, so we can't fully see what he can do imo.. Time will tell if this will change as the season goes on.

There is almost nothing about his game that says feature him. If you were to list out the top 10 traits of someone you should feature, he only has about 2 of them.

He can't dribble
He can't facilitate
He does not get to the line
He is not quick enough to be used to run people through screens (like Rip or Reggie)
He does not have a quick release
He does not have a post game
He cannot get his own shot


When on, he is an efficient low volume, low minute, complimentary player.
It would be like trying the feature prime Robert Horry or something.

Pat needs to end the season healthy (for a change) and get in a good offseason of development. He NEEDS to spend a lot of time with Johnny-dribbles-a-lot. After that he needs to find someone to teach him some post moves. I think the Bulls were overly optimistic about his offensive prowess when they told him to be more aggressive and now are probably afraid to tell him "you know what, never mind about that whole be agressive thing until you improve your handles". But they are very bad. If they could just tell him "when you catch the ball, just shoot it...don't worry if you are at the basket or in the backcourt...just chuck it".

[dougthonus]

Pat needs to end the season healthy (for a change) and get in a good offseason of development. He NEEDS to spend a lot of time with Johnny-dribbles-a-lot. After that he needs to find someone to teach him some post moves. I think the Bulls were overly optimistic about his offensive prowess when they told him to be more aggressive and now are probably afraid to tell him "you know what, never mind about that whole be agressive thing until you improve your handles". But they are very bad. If they could just tell him "when you catch the ball, just shoot it...don't worry if you are at the basket or in the backcourt...just chuck it".

He should work on expanding his game the best he can, but I've been saying since year 1, there's absolutely nothing about his game that projects into an on ball player. He's at a very rudimentary level in literally everything required to be that type of guy, there's no reason to think someone with his level of skill 4.x years in is going to make radical leaps forward in ability at some point in the future.

I'd say screw Johnny-dribbles-a-lot, and get him in front of someone that focuses on nothing but release speed, and one dribble step backs or one dribble side step threes so he can get his volume up to 7+ 3pa a game with hopefully good efficiency. That and whatever drill one could imagine that would improve his off-ball awareness (no idea what that looks like in reality from a practice perspective).

Those are the two things that would meaningfully move the needle for him and seem reasonably obtainable. I don't see being a creator as reasonably obtainable at this point in his career.

[DuallyNoted]

His defense is mediocre and exaggerated by a career where was forced to play the 4 next to Vucevic and turnstiles outside of Caruso. The problem isn't his defense in which even then he's your 7th best defender on a contending team the problem is that he's the 25th best offensive player and 30th best rebounder on a team that only has 12 spots to suck. if any team is stupid enough to take his contract i'd be happy. I don't think this guy would get playing time in the g-league if it weren't for his reputation. if i hear about his big hands one more team which was stupid to begin with because they're nba players. then again people were paying 100 dollars for bol bol's rookie cards and pat wasn't far behind.

[DuallyNoted]

why would i argue with any of you again when reality can do it for you

[Ballerkingn23]

So to sum it up 18 million isn't that bad of a rate for what he can provide.

It's not a bad deal for what he can provide in theory but doesn't provide presently.

And I can't argue that at all, but with that being said are you suggesting we should've let him walk or signed and traded him because what we signed him for if i'm not mistaken is close to his qualifying offer range. I personally am ok with the amount as it's a flat rate and if he improves or hold his value will be a decent trade chip in the event we'd like to flip for something or include him in a bigger deal. Bec he did have some value this off-season and another organization might feel they can tap into his potential with a change of scenery... But what say you?

[Ballerkingn23]

He can't dribble
He can't facilitate
He does not get to the line
He is not quick enough to be used to run people through screens (like Rip or Reggie)
He does not have a quick release
He does not have a post game
He cannot get his own shot


When on, he is an efficient low volume, low minute, complimentary player.
It would be like trying the feature prime Robert Horry or something.

I think he's better than what you're giving him credit for my friend. Still he can improve but I do think he has a post game, a mid range game and 3 ball game, and can dribble to get himself into a good position to score. He's just not being asked to do these things and is too passive and defers way too much for us to see his true skill level. Now can he put up 25 a night I don't think so, but I do hope now with Zac out and us needing some offense, Billy will try to feature him more. Remember is a trail season, so we need to know fully see what we have and don't have and the areas that he can improve and be better utilized.


So the time is now for Pat. No more excuses..

[dougthonus]

And I can't argue that at all, but with that being said are you suggesting we should've let him walk or signed and traded him because what we signed him for if i'm not mistaken is close to his qualifying offer range. I personally am ok with the amount as it's a flat rate and if he improves or hold his value will be a decent trade chip in the event we'd like to flip for something or include him in a bigger deal. Bec he did have some value this off-season and another organization might feel they can tap into his potential with a change of scenery... But what say you?

His QO was like 10M per year. This was WAY more than his QO. I would have suggested not agreeing to a deal prior to letting him hit free agency and letting him seek out other deals.

It's hard to say what the outcome of that would have been, but based on the deals arrived at by other players that the team used this approach, it would have been less.

[Ballerkingn23]

And I can't argue that at all, but with that being said are you suggesting we should've let him walk or signed and traded him because what we signed him for if i'm not mistaken is close to his qualifying offer range. I personally am ok with the amount as it's a flat rate and if he improves or hold his value will be a decent trade chip in the event we'd like to flip for something or include him in a bigger deal. Bec he did have some value this off-season and another organization might feel they can tap into his potential with a change of scenery... But what say you?

His QO was like 10M per year. This was WAY more than his QO. I would have suggested not agreeing to a deal prior to letting him hit free agency and letting him seek out other deals.

It's hard to say what the outcome of that would have been, but based on the deals arrived at by other players that the team used this approach, it would have been less.

Well for us to do what we did means we must value him a lot and expect him to be a core guy. With that being said, I hope we make due with that premise and find ways to make his impact better felt on this team. Bec IMO he's more of just a 3-D guy or can be. He just needs to be more aggressive as we've all stated and given more focus by our guard. Otherwise what are we paying him for and why is he still here .... Still I get the frustration by fans i am too, still i'm fair enough to say he's only the 4th option at best and with no Zac he should be the 3rd with the hopes if all goes well can be 2nd once we move on from Zac if we ever do.

[Infinity2152]

The mid-level exception argument is garbage. Most players getting mid-level exception are far older than Pat Will, and they're not getting 5 year deals. When you sign a 22yr old player, the expectation is that he will be worth far more near the end of his contract than he is now. Can't really compare stats from a 32yr old player getting a 1-2 yr contract with a 22yr old for 5 years and use his current play level coming back from an injury. If he's worth $14 mill year one and two and $25-30 mill years 3,4,5, you're still winning at $18mill/yr. If he's worth $30 mill the last three years, that's $90 mill, you kind of got two years for free. The hope is 26 yr old Pat will be far better than 22-23 yr old Pat.

Players who get mid level exceptions are usually seasoned vets, good for short term, but little long-term use to the team. You're not paying for potential with them.

[fleet]

Ok in a yr or two he will be making the mid level exp type money as these things go up. Either way too remember he didn't have a off season as he was healing from his foot. So this struggle for me is expected. I will hold judgement though fully by dec/jan. Bec by then he should be able to get his shot into some sort of form. IF he can stay healthy that is. But I'm not here to protect him and I fully understand everyone's frustration with him...

I believe he wouldn't be making MLE money until year 5 of his deal, which is a player option, which will only get executed if he can't get a better deal as a free agent.

Not that it really matters, the MLE is somewhat of a red herring. His deal will become less relative to the cap as time goes on. Didn't look through all the teams, but glanced through half, and 18M is effectively on aggregate like 4th-5th man money. There are some teams he'd be the 3rd highest paid guy and some he'd be the 6th).

Is Pat Williams good enough to be the 4th or 5th best player on a great team? Probably not right now, but it's not so hard to see him getting there. He needs to score efficiently and play good defense, and done. Those aren't massive improvements from what he's been able to show in the past.

So to sum it up 18 million isn't that bad of a rate for what he can provide.

Either way I'm not upset at this deal for him and think it can be a steal once his shot comes to form and if we ever start featuring the kid. How often does plays be ran for him usually never, so we can't fully see what he can do imo.. Time will tell if this will change as the season goes on.

I remember Harrison Barnes being featured (kinda). Being featured and putting up numbers doesn’t make a basketball player a winner

[MalagaBulls]

What a terrible mess (all self induced of course) this is. We're stuck with Tony Sloth Snell the 2nd for who knows how many years.

[Stratmaster]

People continuing to turn themselves into pretzels trying to justify this guys existence in the NBA are just getting comical.

He can hit wide open 3's at a better than average rate. He is an average defender as long as the opponent isn't too quick. That's his skillset. He either doesn't know what to do and/or panics when he has the ball in his hands in any other scenario, including when he actually gets a rebound.

[DASMACKDOWN]

And I can't argue that at all, but with that being said are you suggesting we should've let him walk or signed and traded him because what we signed him for if i'm not mistaken is close to his qualifying offer range. I personally am ok with the amount as it's a flat rate and if he improves or hold his value will be a decent trade chip in the event we'd like to flip for something or include him in a bigger deal. Bec he did have some value this off-season and another organization might feel they can tap into his potential with a change of scenery... But what say you?

His QO was like 10M per year. This was WAY more than his QO. I would have suggested not agreeing to a deal prior to letting him hit free agency and letting him seek out other deals.

It's hard to say what the outcome of that would have been, but based on the deals arrived at by other players that the team used this approach, it would have been less.

Actually, his QO was 13 mil. So its more like he got a 5 mil bump.