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jpatrick wrote:I suspect that if we willing to offer a regular NBA contract to our second round pick, we could have taken anyone. It is more because we were limited to offering a two-way, which the second round picks were not required to accept. And they were telling TC other teams were offering regular contracts if they were picked.

Well, I am sure Fleming was not excited to sit on the bench behind Reid and Randle

Guest84 wrote:Drafted two bigs. Is this insurance for losing Naz and Randle potentially? Or more so to replace the end of bench guys?

Since PHX is going for a 5 SG line up, we are counting it with a 5 CT lineup with Naz playing PG.

minimus wrote:

jpatrick wrote:I suspect that if we willing to offer a regular NBA contract to our second round pick, we could have taken anyone. It is more because we were limited to offering a two-way, which the second round picks were not required to accept. And they were telling TC other teams were offering regular contracts if they were picked.

Well, I am sure Fleming was not excited to sit on the bench behind Reid and Randle

That may be true, but 2nd round picks typically don't have the type of leverage to dictate where they go. I think what jpatrick said makes the most sense. We didn't want to commit to a roster spot.

Worm Guts wrote:

minimus wrote:

jpatrick wrote:I suspect that if we willing to offer a regular NBA contract to our second round pick, we could have taken anyone. It is more because we were limited to offering a two-way, which the second round picks were not required to accept. And they were telling TC other teams were offering regular contracts if they were picked.

Well, I am sure Fleming was not excited to sit on the bench behind Reid and Randle

That may be true, but 2nd round picks typically don't have the type of leverage to dictate where they go. I think what jpatrick said makes the most sense. We didn't want to commit to a roster spot.

That's the crux of it. That, and that Connelly didn't like any of the prospects better than guys currently on roster. We could have declined the option on guys like Minott, Miller, or Garza, but apparently Connelly didn't think as much of that option rather than getting 2 future 2nds and some cash to trade into a preferred 2 way/stash like Rocco (who he mentioned they had much higher on their board). We couldn't have taken Fleming, Thiero, etc AND still gotten Rocco. I personally would have just taken Fleming at 31 and said goodbye to Garza or Minott, but I realize that likely wouldn't have helped us much next year. While Fleming has a higher upside, he'll also be a rookie with a known weakness for "feel of the game" which is a little worrisome.

The last time Connelly targeted a 2 way guy in the 2nd round was Jaylen Clark and we love how that has looked so far. While I may like Fleming, the chances are that he's not actually a player just like Rocco isn't likely a player. To say differently is ignoring a lot of history on 2nd round picks. Could Connelly be wrong? Sure and it will hurt if Fleming becomes a rotation level guy, but in the end, I have no reason to doubt that Connelly isn't going to bat much better than I am especially given that he has a lot more info on these guys than the youtube breakdowns I've seen.

younggunsmn wrote:
This is a ridiculous excuse Minott Miller and Garza can and probably should all be let go.

According to you. I agree with you on Garza, but those are our evaluations and we don't have near the info that Conelly has. He's trying to balance next year and the future. Even if I don't like the long term future of any of them as much as someone at 31, it's hard to say that 31 would have helped next year more than any of the guys that have been in the league for 2+ years. Development isn't linear. I don't think it's impossible that Minott or Miller could still find something.

TC is basically saying they valued Minott and Garza over a pick at 31, which is insane to me. Its just giving a lot of cover to being cheap.

It's not being cheap. 31 would have had a lower salary next year than the options on any of our current guys. Connelly thought it was better to have the current guy for MORE money next year.

But whatever. I'm happy with Zikarsky now. Just develop him he's got maybe 2nd best length in the league to Wemby and good tools.
If they cut him in a year or two for another Daishen Nix I'm gone be pissed.

Without the trades back, we weren't going to get Rocco on a 2 way. So, the question becomes is it better to have Garza, two future 2nds, and Rocco on a 2 way (fairly valuable contract) vs. Fleming? I might disagree with Connelly there, but it's not some clear cut awful decision IMO. It's certainly possible that Rocco could contribute more in the future than 31. We'll also have to wait to see who we get with or use those future 2nds.

It's so disappointing to be following the draft build up thinking and hoping we get a guy who might help us this year or in the near future only to get two guys that are years away. Drafting Beringer means Rudy is here for the forseeable future. I can live with him being 1/2 a ball player but it won't be easy. He should give us 15 boards a night every night. Oh well. Randle, we'll see what they do with him. He is still a bad fit here. His defense is atrocious and so is his decision making on the court.

That said, I love the upside of both guys drafted. Each have shown the ability to improve rapidly at a very young age so there is no reason that won't continue. I was serious about that twin towers thing. Small ball may be on it's way out. The days of large slow bigs is giving way to the tall this athletic guys like Wemby and Chet Holmgren types.

I'm not the cap guy you are but I understood as of July 1 we would have been under the 2nd apron without doing anything with our 2nd rd wheeling and dealing.
The cash aspect has to be infinetessimal to the 90 mil penalty they supposedly paid. I'm not bothered by that a bit.

Now that my disappointment has subsided I can try to find the good in all of this and watch the same poorly fit team play again this year.

I don't know of anybody that is jumping for joy after this draft although we may be in 4 years. 4 years seems like an eternity in NBA years. Our window is right now.

younggunsmn wrote:

winforlose wrote:

younggunsmn wrote:
I don't think so. I think the 2 way years count against a players restricted free agency, which you can only get up to year 4 I think.

Okay, but what if you keep him as a two way for those two years, then offer him a 4 year deal with minimum money and two years non guaranteed. Isn’t that the Hinkie special?

I think the 2nd round pick exception is only available in the first year (correct me if I'm wrong).
Example: we couldn't use that rule to give Jaylen Clarke a 4 year deal when we converted his 2-way this season because he was in his 2nd year.
So he's currently on a 2 year deal because we were 2nd aproned and had no exceptions to use but the minimum player exception which only goes 2 years. So he will be a restricted free agent after this year.

We went the 2-way route with Clarke and will only get 3 years that are cheap because he is a draft pick/1st year player.

You can do a hinkie type deal after year one, just have to use cap space or an exception.
But for agents, years extended out past when a player could be an unrestricted free agent cost more. That's just the way it is.

I may be wrong, but I thought Clark signed for 2 years because that's all he wanted to sign for. I remember a lot of disaapointment because he only signed for 2 years. I don't think he wanted to wait 4 more years to prove he's worth more than the minimum.

Nick K wrote:It's so disappointing to be following the draft build up thinking and hoping we get a guy who might help us this year or in the near future only to get two guys that are years away. Drafting Beringer means Rudy is here for the forseeable future. I can live with him being 1/2 a ball player but it won't be easy. He should give us 15 boards a night every night. Oh well. Randle, we'll see what they do with him. He is still a bad fit here. His defense is atrocious and so is his decision making on the court.

That said, I love the upside of both guys drafted. Each have shown the ability to improve rapidly at a very young age so there is no reason that won't continue. I was serious about that twin towers thing. Small ball may be on it's way out. The days of large slow bigs is giving way to the tall this athletic guys like Wemby and Chet Holmgren types.

I'm not the cap guy you are but I understood as of July 1 we would have been under the 2nd apron without doing anything with our 2nd rd wheeling and dealing.
The cash aspect has to be infinetessimal to the 90 mil penalty they supposedly paid. I'm not bothered by that a bit.

Now that my disappointment has subsided I can try to find the good in all of this and watch the same poorly fit team play again this year.

I don't know of anybody that is jumping for joy after this draft although we may be in 4 years. 4 years seems like an eternity in NBA years. Our window is right now.

The payoff could start as soon as 26-27 season and grow into something massive by year 4. Do we keep both if they're both looking good or do we trade one for a more needed player?

Knoxz wrote:

Slim Tubby wrote:

Klomp wrote:

Read on Twitter

I'm going to need some remedial explanation as to what this word salad from Connelly means.

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM mobile app

My understanding is that by having one more day until the second round, agents use that extratime to make deals to take players to teams that promise more playing time or a better contract. Unlike in the first round, they have more negotiating power and flexibility, and they take advantage of that (we saw it with Bronny, who either went to the Lakers or there would be consequences).
In European football (soccer), it's been happening for some time now. There are agents who have more power than clubs or the players themselves. Besides, you as a franchise aren't interested in having bad relationships with these agents, especially with a second-round player who is usually out of the NBA within a couple of years. If you have bad relationships with these agents, you can have problems re-signing players or signing them through free agency, since they usually represent quite a few players.
Sorry for my english if it's not clear.

Thanks, Knoxz!

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM mobile app

KGdaBom wrote:

Nick K wrote:It's so disappointing to be following the draft build up thinking and hoping we get a guy who might help us this year or in the near future only to get two guys that are years away. Drafting Beringer means Rudy is here for the forseeable future. I can live with him being 1/2 a ball player but it won't be easy. He should give us 15 boards a night every night. Oh well. Randle, we'll see what they do with him. He is still a bad fit here. His defense is atrocious and so is his decision making on the court.

That said, I love the upside of both guys drafted. Each have shown the ability to improve rapidly at a very young age so there is no reason that won't continue. I was serious about that twin towers thing. Small ball may be on it's way out. The days of large slow bigs is giving way to the tall this athletic guys like Wemby and Chet Holmgren types.

I'm not the cap guy you are but I understood as of July 1 we would have been under the 2nd apron without doing anything with our 2nd rd wheeling and dealing.
The cash aspect has to be infinetessimal to the 90 mil penalty they supposedly paid. I'm not bothered by that a bit.

Now that my disappointment has subsided I can try to find the good in all of this and watch the same poorly fit team play again this year.

I don't know of anybody that is jumping for joy after this draft although we may be in 4 years. 4 years seems like an eternity in NBA years. Our window is right now.

The payoff could start as soon as 26-27 season and grow into something massive by year 4. Do we keep both if they're both looking good or do we trade one for a more needed player?

If they are good, of course you keep both.

Klomp wrote:

winforlose wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:please explain. I don't understand what the hell he was talking about.

100% agree, not following TC at all here. This is like walking in at the end of a story and trying to understand without the context.

More and more, agents will try to steer their clients to franchises where they want to go, whether it's a better location or a better opportunity. Remember Bronny last year? A lot more of that going on. Honestly, it might be a negative byproduct of switching to a two-day draft.

This is very interesting.

Chris Hine

Tim Connelly on trading pick 31: “It was really curious how agent driven the 2nd round became. We called players left & right, and there was 20 deals done before the draft started. It was interesting. No. 31 is fun, but it’s probably not as fun as we thought was gonna be.”
9:57 PM · Jun 26, 2025
--------------------------------

I get it now. They didn't think Fleming would fall to the 2nd round. They moved #31 before the draft! They couldn't take Fleming because they already dealt the pick. They had there eye on the Aussie and figured we can wait to get him no problem.

No wonder last night turned out like it did. Sheesh. Connelly out smarted himself. All due to the NBA having round two the following night. I'm not a fan of the 2 day nba draft. Just do it in one and be done with it.

KGdaBom wrote:When does camp signings, invites and that kind of stuff info come out. Nembhard please. I'd love to see him light up SL throwing lobs to Joan and Rocco.

It started leaking out as early as yesterday. Nembhard is already off the market.

I wouldn't expect much. Good team and a pretty loaded depth chart, not exactly enticing for guys who are looking for their best opportunity.

Nick K wrote:

Klomp wrote:

winforlose wrote:
100% agree, not following TC at all here. This is like walking in at the end of a story and trying to understand without the context.

More and more, agents will try to steer their clients to franchises where they want to go, whether it's a better location or a better opportunity. Remember Bronny last year? A lot more of that going on. Honestly, it might be a negative byproduct of switching to a two-day draft.

This is very interesting.

Chris Hine

Tim Connelly on trading pick 31: “It was really curious how agent driven the 2nd round became. We called players left & right, and there was 20 deals done before the draft started. It was interesting. No. 31 is fun, but it’s probably not as fun as we thought was gonna be.”
9:57 PM · Jun 26, 2025
--------------------------------

I get it now. They didn't think Fleming would fall to the 2nd round. They moved #31 before the draft! They couldn't take Fleming because they already dealt the pick. They had there eye on the Aussie and figured we can wait to get him no problem.

No wonder last night turned out like it did. Sheesh. Connelly out smarted himself. All due to the NBA having round two the following night. I'm not a fan of the 2 day nba draft. Just do it in one and be done with it.

I would bet anything that "before the draft started" is referring to the Day 2 start.

There is no way there were 20 deals done when teams only knew for sure Flagg was going #1.

Nick K wrote:

Klomp wrote:

winforlose wrote:
100% agree, not following TC at all here. This is like walking in at the end of a story and trying to understand without the context.

More and more, agents will try to steer their clients to franchises where they want to go, whether it's a better location or a better opportunity. Remember Bronny last year? A lot more of that going on. Honestly, it might be a negative byproduct of switching to a two-day draft.

This is very interesting.

Chris Hine

Tim Connelly on trading pick 31: “It was really curious how agent driven the 2nd round became. We called players left & right, and there was 20 deals done before the draft started. It was interesting. No. 31 is fun, but it’s probably not as fun as we thought was gonna be.”
9:57 PM · Jun 26, 2025
--------------------------------

I get it now. They didn't think Fleming would fall to the 2nd round. They moved #31 before the draft! They couldn't take Fleming because they already dealt the pick. They had there eye on the Aussie and figured we can wait to get him no problem.

No wonder last night turned out like it did. Sheesh. Connelly out smarted himself. All due to the NBA having round two the following night. I'm not a fan of the 2 day nba draft. Just do it in one and be done with it.

That is not consistent with what I heard yesterday. The Suns traded up to 36 yesterday to be able to entice us into giving them 31. I am posting the shams announcement regarding the Suns/Nets trade to verify. The bigger issue is that Fleming told TC not to draft him through his representation. The agent probably looked us and decided Fleming wouldn’t get a lot of opportunities. Between our success last season, our coach famous for not playing young players, our positional depth, and our drafting JB in the first round, this seemed like a bad fit. So TC worked the phones and called other players and got the same message. It turns out the agents make deals with teams before the draft, hence the second night. What we see on the screen is a lie. Teams don’t really control that much on day 2. Looking at Ace Bailey they might not control night 1 for much longer either.

I am NEVER watching this round 2 draft BS again, it was a complete waste of time for the second year in a row

Neeva wrote::lol: I am NEVER watching this round 2 draft BS again, it was a complete waste of time for the second year in a row

Probably not a terrible idea

Klomp wrote:

Neeva wrote::lol: I am NEVER watching this round 2 draft BS again, it was a complete waste of time for the second year in a row

Probably not a terrible idea

I can't stand the thought of watching another 2nd round either. But I probably still will. I'm a die hard sucker for punishment. I'm a Wolves fan after all.

Nick K wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:

Nick K wrote:It's so disappointing to be following the draft build up thinking and hoping we get a guy who might help us this year or in the near future only to get two guys that are years away. Drafting Beringer means Rudy is here for the forseeable future. I can live with him being 1/2 a ball player but it won't be easy. He should give us 15 boards a night every night. Oh well. Randle, we'll see what they do with him. He is still a bad fit here. His defense is atrocious and so is his decision making on the court.

That said, I love the upside of both guys drafted. Each have shown the ability to improve rapidly at a very young age so there is no reason that won't continue. I was serious about that twin towers thing. Small ball may be on it's way out. The days of large slow bigs is giving way to the tall this athletic guys like Wemby and Chet Holmgren types.

I'm not the cap guy you are but I understood as of July 1 we would have been under the 2nd apron without doing anything with our 2nd rd wheeling and dealing.
The cash aspect has to be infinetessimal to the 90 mil penalty they supposedly paid. I'm not bothered by that a bit.

Now that my disappointment has subsided I can try to find the good in all of this and watch the same poorly fit team play again this year.

I don't know of anybody that is jumping for joy after this draft although we may be in 4 years. 4 years seems like an eternity in NBA years. Our window is right now.

The payoff could start as soon as 26-27 season and grow into something massive by year 4. Do we keep both if they're both looking good or do we trade one for a more needed player?

If they are good, of course you keep both.

So you never trade good players? If you only want to trade bad players you might not get many bites.

BlacJacMac wrote:

younggunsmn wrote:

winforlose wrote:
Okay, but what if you keep him as a two way for those two years, then offer him a 4 year deal with minimum money and two years non guaranteed. Isn’t that the Hinkie special?

I think the 2nd round pick exception is only available in the first year (correct me if I'm wrong).
Example: we couldn't use that rule to give Jaylen Clarke a 4 year deal when we converted his 2-way this season because he was in his 2nd year.
So he's currently on a 2 year deal because we were 2nd aproned and had no exceptions to use but the minimum player exception which only goes 2 years. So he will be a restricted free agent after this year.

We went the 2-way route with Clarke and will only get 3 years that are cheap because he is a draft pick/1st year player.

You can do a hinkie type deal after year one, just have to use cap space or an exception.
But for agents, years extended out past when a player could be an unrestricted free agent cost more. That's just the way it is.

I may be wrong, but I thought Clark signed for 2 years because that's all he wanted to sign for. I remember a lot of disaapointment because he only signed for 2 years. I don't think he wanted to wait 4 more years to prove he's worth more than the minimum.

Nope. We had zero options to sign him for more than 2 years because of our 2nd apron restrictions.
We only had the minimum salary exception to offer.

Nick K wrote:It's so disappointing to be following the draft build up thinking and hoping we get a guy who might help us this year or in the near future only to get two guys that are years away. Drafting Beringer means Rudy is here for the forseeable future. I can live with him being 1/2 a ball player but it won't be easy. He should give us 15 boards a night every night. Oh well. Randle, we'll see what they do with him. He is still a bad fit here. His defense is atrocious and so is his decision making on the court.

That said, I love the upside of both guys drafted. Each have shown the ability to improve rapidly at a very young age so there is no reason that won't continue. I was serious about that twin towers thing. Small ball may be on it's way out. The days of large slow bigs is giving way to the tall this athletic guys like Wemby and Chet Holmgren types.

I'm not the cap guy you are but I understood as of July 1 we would have been under the 2nd apron without doing anything with our 2nd rd wheeling and dealing.
The cash aspect has to be infinetessimal to the 90 mil penalty they supposedly paid. I'm not bothered by that a bit.

Now that my disappointment has subsided I can try to find the good in all of this and watch the same poorly fit team play again this year.

I don't know of anybody that is jumping for joy after this draft although we may be in 4 years. 4 years seems like an eternity in NBA years. Our window is right now.

Be real NO one from this draft besides maybe Flagg was helping a playoff/contender next season.